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Hereafter [Worm x Fate/Grand Order]

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Yeah, I always had a problem with Nasu's reasoning because weapons often aren't the primary focus of most Heroic Spirit's legend.

Even then, is Nasu really saying Simo, White Death, Häyhä did nothing of value and is disqualified because he used a gun instead of a bow and arrow? There are literally songs written about him that are only a few years old! I'm pretty sure Sabaton has one.

I think the real answer is much simpler. He doesn't want to deal with future tech, guns, or a legend that recent so came up with a BS reason. While I do not keep up with Fate, I can understand his general "guns bad" attitude and teeming. Add in not wanting that sort of power creep or things that hit a bit too close to home and yeah...

The problem is from what little Fate lore I do know the throne is not limited to linear time. So, every hero which will exist is already there or something like that. Which okay, but then he went and basically said "oh, but since guns exist alnost no one can be heroes anymore, since it's too easy to kill people with them." Completely ignoring everything else that makes a hero.

So, he painted himself into a corner and guns are a cop out!
 
It's also worth noting that Shards prior to the Ice Breaking in Ward are pretty much completely beyond the ability of the Human Counterforce to strike back at because they all exist on Earths devoid of humanity and interact with human inhabited Earths through human hosts. The Human Counterforce simply would not care about them until the Ice Breaking, and as that incident resolved itself on more or less amicable terms between Humanity and the Shards the Counterforce isn't likely to get to work exterminating a now nonthreat.
I can't remember the timeline exactly so I have to ask, has Ward happened yet by the time F/GO kicks off? Cuz the Kronos Titan exists on every Earth, and he happens a bit before the Ice Breaks and suddenly the Firmament is spreading throughout a whole lotta Earths being a threat to the entire planet.
We may have a better reason than arrogance for why Goetia didn't just flex on Chaldea to kill it by the Third Singularity in fic compared to Canon, he was devoting his time and resources to containing the threat and disruption that the Shards represent to his plan. They aren't Zion and/or Eden so they're definitely something he can deal with, but they aren't merely a few billion upjumped monkeys either so he can't exactly steam roll them or ignore them.
 
Formerly said:
I can't remember the timeline exactly so I have to ask, has Ward happened yet by the time F/GO kicks off? Cuz the Kronos Titan exists on every Earth, and he happens a bit before the Ice Breaks and suddenly the Firmament is spreading throughout a whole lotta Earths being a threat to the entire planet.
We may have a better reason than arrogance for why Goetia didn't just flex on Chaldea to kill it by the Third Singularity in fic compared to Canon, he was devoting his time and resources to containing the threat and disruption that the Shards represent to his plan. They aren't Zion and/or Eden so they're definitely something he can deal with, but they aren't merely a few billion upjumped monkeys either so he can't exactly steam roll them or ignore them.
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So this is all of thee top my my head but I'm going to go ahead and say probably yes. F/Go is 2015 that all this kicks off and I think that got confirmed somewhere in this story. Worm's timeline is simple enough to roughly work out it starts in 2011, gm occurs after the 2 year timeskip in 2013 and while I've not looked up a timeline or anything for ward its mentioned several times that they've gotten through the first brutal winter with lots of losses and people are both more hopeful for the upcoming one but also not looking forward to it that would place it as the winter of 2013 and ward occurring in 2014.

That said there is room for error in there mainly because in the epilogue the May after ward finishes Vista turns 18 I think she's either 12 or 13 at the start of canon, has her birthday on levi's atk in May making her 13 or 14, gm is after her birthday in 2013 so she'd be 15 or 16 which places her as being 18 in 2015 or 2016 and so ward in either 2014 as above or 2015. Since ward kicks off around September and ends by December if its 2014 its all over aside from the epilogues based on when fgo starts but if its 2015 then it would all depend on when fgo starts but probably not yet.
 
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famfrit said:
So this is all of thee top my my head but I'm going to go ahead and say probably yes. F/Go is 2015 that all this kicks off and I think that got confirmed somewhere in this story. Worm's timeline is simple enough to roughly work out it starts in 2011, gm occurs after the 2 year timeskip in 2013 and while I've not looked up a timeline or anything for ward its mentioned several times that they've gotten through the first brutal winter with lots of losses and people are both more hopeful for the upcoming one but also not looking forward to it that would place it as the winter of 2013 and ward occurring in 2014.

That said there is room for error in there mainly because in the epilogue the May after ward finishes Vista turns 18 I think she's either 12 or 13 at the start of canon, has her birthday on levi's atk in May making her 13 or 14, gm is after her birthday in 2013 so she'd be 15 or 16 which places her as being 18 in 2015 or 2016 and so ward in either 2014 as above or 2015. Since ward kicks off around September and ends by December if its 2014 its all over aside from the epilogues based on when fgo starts but if its 2015 then it would all depend on when fgo starts but probably not yet.
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Iirc, and I have little confidence I do, I could've swore it said in story that it had been 2 years since GM, but that very well could mean that they're in their second year since GM and are coming up on the anniversary.
If Ward has happened by now the MA musta had a fit when Kronos just popped up on the US east coast like "WHAT'S UP BITCHES!!!" did absolutely nothing for months, and then fought a running battle with God knows what 12 realities to the left before peacing out of existence with no explanation whatsoever. Meanwhile Taylor in Antartica is blissfully ignorant because Chaldea's determined this isn't the World Ending Threat they're looking for so it really isn't any of their business.
 
I'd go with it being more likely that the events of Worm and Ward are on a Sub-Branch of Time; just like how Fate-Extra is separate from the other Fate continuities. Though if there are Magi still in the Parahuman universe then it would certainly make for interesting times.
 
The Void said:
I'd go with it being more likely that the events of Worm and Ward are on a Sub-Branch of Time; just like how Fate-Extra is separate from the other Fate continuities. Though if there are Magi still in the Parahuman universe then it would certainly make for interesting times.
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Then Taylor never could've made it to the FGO world.
 
Formerly said:
Iirc, and I have little confidence I do, I could've swore it said in story that it had been 2 years since GM, but that very well could mean that they're in their second year since GM and are coming up on the anniversary.
If Ward has happened by now the MA musta had a fit when Kronos just popped up on the US east coast like "WHAT'S UP BITCHES!!!" did absolutely nothing for months, and then fought a running battle with God knows what 12 realities to the left before peacing out of existence with no explanation whatsoever. Meanwhile Taylor in Antartica is blissfully ignorant because Chaldea's determined this isn't the World Ending Threat they're looking for so it really isn't any of their business.
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That's what I was meaning gm occurs in 2013 2 years later takes it to 2015 which is when fgo canonically happens largely because that's when the Japanese version came out.
 
RoboRenee said:
Fate Extra stuff made it to FGO, like with serioustime plot and everything, so no. It's possible.
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The Void said:
Contessa literally dropped her off via...I don't think it was Doormaker considering he's dead or drained by this point, but some sort of dimensional/temporal means to Chaldea.
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Then being on a sub branch is meaningless to the discussion because Kronos and the rest of Ward's little Titan War was all over FGO Earth's front page news. If Contessa could do it the Shards and Titans definitely could... also poor Fortuna, she drops Taylor off and gets ready to start her new life only to immediately get Teacher-ed in the back of the head.
 
Formerly said:
Then being on a sub branch is meaningless to the discussion because Kronos and the rest of Ward's little Titan War was all over FGO Earth's front page news. If Contessa could do it the Shards and Titans definitely could... also poor Fortuna, she drops Taylor off and gets ready to start her new life only to immediately get Teacher-ed in the back of the head.
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Did I miss that being brought up on-screen about it being news in the World with Chaldea, or a WOG on it?

My thought on it is that the Shards and by extension Titians were operating on and nominally restricted to a thin but still vast slice of the Greater Human History. Preventing them from willfully crossing over onto the branch where Chaldea's foundation takes place; creating interference of all sorts. As part of the myriad but breaking down protections established for the Cycle and sustained by the Hubs, or well formerly Zion's effectively. While QA was able to hook back up to Taylor, outside of the designated target zone, due to a loophole and potential errors regarding Host connections beyond that slice.

Though it does raise some questions of how Contessa got Taylor there, not in the sense of 'could X Power do Y effect' but more 'trick/force X Power to do illegal Y effect'. But that more or less means it becomes a question of what was around Contessa, and what could she have used to move Taylor quickly. Then again it could also be that in this Universe/Timeline Doormaker's Shard wasn't fully drained one way or another; meaning Dooring her was still on the table.
 
The Void said:
Did I miss that being brought up on-screen about it being news in the World with Chaldea, or a WOG on it?

My thought on it is that the Shards and by extension Titians were operating on and nominally restricted to a thin but still vast slice of the Greater Human History. Preventing them from willfully crossing over onto the branch where Chaldea's foundation takes place; creating interference of all sorts. As part of the myriad but breaking down protections established for the Cycle and sustained by the Hubs, or well formerly Zion's effectively. While QA was able to hook back up to Taylor, outside of the designated target zone, due to a loophole and potential errors regarding Host connections beyond that slice.

Though it does raise some questions of how Contessa got Taylor there, not in the sense of 'could X Power do Y effect' but more 'trick/force X Power to do illegal Y effect'. But that more or less means it becomes a question of what was around Contessa, and what could she have used to move Taylor quickly. Then again it could also be that in this Universe/Timeline Doormaker's Shard wasn't fully drained one way or another; meaning Dooring her was still on the table.
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No, it has more to do with the fact that Humanity can't really stop the Shards from doing whatever they want wherever they want whenever they want, and when the ice broke what the Shards wanted to do was consume the Earth, all the Earths, in an orgy of feasting and violence and blow this joint like the manhole cover we put in space with a nuke. And they were in the process of doing just that prior to Goetia Incinerating history only to be convinced to stop by humanity literally taking itself, and by extension the integrity of all the data derived from this Cycle, hostage. It wasn't subtle, its harbinger was mountain sized man made of energy and matter that exists on every Earth's American east coast.
If Contessa could dump Taylor on FGO Earth then that means it's an accessible Earth for Shard shenanigans, and Kronos is some very jailbroken Shard shenanigans. The news cycle would have to be spectacularly oblivious to miss that, and I don't think even the MA's considerable assets and capabilities can conceal it. Especially when reality literally starts breaking like glass around it and the big guy starts moving.
 
The easiest solution of course is that, coincidentally, Kronos has only just now appeared after humanity has been incinerated and either a: Goetia, if he noticed, just kind of glared at it but ultimately dismissed it from his plans, or b: it turns out that this crossover is more ambitious than we originally assumed and isn't just altering F/GO's story but Ward's as well, and things will get interesting.
 
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So I know this question is kind of out of the blue, and won't be relevant for some time yet but;
How would the Pharaohs react to Taylor going all 10 plagues of Egypt on her enemies?

Would they fear her like the wrath of God personified?
Or would they hate her with a passion for what happened to their people?
 
captain_belgica said:
So I know this question is kind of out of the blue, and won't be relevant for some time yet but;
How would the Pharaohs react to Taylor going all 10 plagues of Egypt on her enemies?

Would they fear her like the wrath of God personified?
Or would they hate her with a passion for what happened to their people?
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They'd more or less be ok. For all that we joke about Taylor's biblical plagues they don't really stack up to the wrath of God. They're just mundane bugs compared to a cloud of demon locusts large enough to blot out the sun from over the horizon. Ozzy might find it incredibly distasteful and a little unsettling.
 
EmperorArthur said:
Yeah, I always had a problem with Nasu's reasoning because weapons often aren't the primary focus of most Heroic Spirit's legend.

Even then, is Nasu really saying Simo, White Death, Häyhä did nothing of value and is disqualified because he used a gun instead of a bow and arrow? There are literally songs written about him that are only a few years old! I'm pretty sure Sabaton has one.

I think the real answer is much simpler. He doesn't want to deal with future tech, guns, or a legend that recent so came up with a BS reason. While I do not keep up with Fate, I can understand his general "guns bad" attitude and teeming. Add in not wanting that sort of power creep or things that hit a bit too close to home and yeah...

The problem is from what little Fate lore I do know the throne is not limited to linear time. So, every hero which will exist is already there or something like that. Which okay, but then he went and basically said "oh, but since guns exist alnost no one can be heroes anymore, since it's too easy to kill people with them." Completely ignoring everything else that makes a hero.

So, he painted himself into a corner and guns are a cop out!
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That explanation went out the window when we got Billy the Kid as a Servant. I don't know their lore reason for it these days but the Watsonian answer is that they want to avoid possible issues wherein someone who was famous in life and still has family kicking around raising a fuss. For example, they had a close call when it was found out through the FGO reddit that an actual great grand (niece I think though it might have been nephew) of Florence Nightingale found out about her depiction in the game. Luckily, they were just curious and after having a few days of minor celebrity status on the reddit board, went away again. But stuff like that turning out ugly (as in some cases, laws regarding likeness rights and all that can still be applicable) is the most likely reason why there aren't more recent timeline Servants than their are. Pretty much everyone shown is either confirmed no living relatives (Billy, Tesla), so far changed from recognizable that the character is the person in-name-only (Edison), or a cameo so brief that it takes a confirmation from a dev to state who it was (Neil Armstrong in Extra).
 
Braelyn said:
That explanation went out the window when we got Billy the Kid as a Servant. I don't know their lore reason for it these days but the Watsonian answer is that they want to avoid possible issues wherein someone who was famous in life and still has family kicking around raising a fuss. For example, they had a close call when it was found out through the FGO reddit that an actual great grand (niece I think though it might have been nephew) of Florence Nightingale found out about her depiction in the game. Luckily, they were just curious and after having a few days of minor celebrity status on the reddit board, went away again. But stuff like that turning out ugly (as in some cases, laws regarding likeness rights and all that can still be applicable) is the most likely reason why there aren't more recent timeline Servants than their are. Pretty much everyone shown is either confirmed no living relatives (Billy, Tesla), so far changed from recognizable that the character is the person in-name-only (Edison), or a cameo so brief that it takes a confirmation from a dev to state who it was (Neil Armstrong in Extra).
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In universe it is easily explained by it not being a hard rule, but more of a general trend. Like there is no formulaic method to determine who makes HS or not. There's just a general guideline that fame/infamy and time helps. Some legends make the cut and others don't, and there is little to no rhyme or reason as to why. It's arbitrary instead of a hard science, and it doesn't even pretend to be.
 
All I have to say regarding the upcoming Septem singularity is that I'm super hyped for Boudica to be treated better than just a generic big tiddy onee-san since there's an actually good writer doing this.
 
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FunkyEntropy said:
All I have to say regarding the upcoming Septem singularity is that I'm super hyped for Boudica to be treated better than just a generic big tiddy onee-san since there's an actually good writer doing this.
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A large part of the issue with Boudicca (at least, from a Watsonian perspective) is how she's very deliberately hamstringing herself as a Servant, forcing herself to manifest as a Rider rather than as an Avenger, where she would be far more effective.

Which, given the extremely brief glimpses into that side of her that we see, during the KnK and second Summer events, isn't entirely unwarranted, either. Especially once you consider the historical details of her legendary rampage (to sum up: three cities burned to ashes, estimated 70,000-80,000 dead, many of them outright tortured to death, including women and children).

With details like that in mind, it's honestly little wonder why Septem!Boudicca comes off as slightly caricaturish – she's almost literally somewhere between Stepford Smiler, and having Painted a Smiley On her own Soul!
 
When you think about it, that ironically means she has something with Nero, who is also forcing herself into her non-optimal class (though to a greater extent because I'm pretty sure she doesn't have any qualifications as a Saber but abused Imperial Privilege) because she doesn't like what her stronger classes bring out of her.
 
TheFinalWraith said:
When you think about it, that ironically means she has something with Nero, who is also forcing herself into her non-optimal class (though to a greater extent because I'm pretty sure she doesn't have any qualifications as a Saber but abused Imperial Privilege) because she doesn't like what her stronger classes bring out of her.
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To be fair Caster Nero is both a fairly strong Servant and pretty okay mentally. So she could have done that.

It's Rider that she really really needs to stay away from.
 
Formerly said:
In universe it is easily explained by it not being a hard rule, but more of a general trend. Like there is no formulaic method to determine who makes HS or not. There's just a general guideline that fame/infamy and time helps. Some legends make the cut and others don't, and there is little to no rhyme or reason as to why. It's arbitrary instead of a hard science, and it doesn't even pretend to be.
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*cough*
The living could not know these things in advance. Although prophecy might foretell great deeds remembered throughout history, it was history itself that determined whether an individual could escape the cycle of transmigration to take their place in Valhalla. It was impossible, therefore, for those who did not already understand the nature of a Heroic Spirit to determine whether they might become one.
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Well, I'm sure that detail will never be relevant.
 
...You just have to put it in a spoiler tag and add what you added didn't you? Now it is making my sleeping conspiracy theorist stir!

Down boy down! No jumping at random spoiler tag!!
 
The Void said:
Where does that quote come from again? My best guess is likely either FGO on mobile, or one of their adaptations like Manga. Although I don't recall any getting up to the Lostbests...Then again this could be just thread WOG on the matter.
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It's a teaser from a much later chapter, one whose diction and format I'm trying very hard to get as close to authentic Nasu as possible.
 
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