Hell is other angels

I have to agree with the general consensus here. If he had stopped right before dusting the vampire, that would have made his point clear.

By actually killing what is probably a partner at the firm, there's no way they don't just have him offed.

I mean, unless the guy was an associate. Everyone knows associates are cannon fodder.
 
The guy fucked with him. Sent out a paralegal, then made him wait. At an evil lawyer firm, if someone does that and you can take them (and you arrived with a valued client), they're expendable.

If Saint hadn't been able to make it stick then they'd've thrown him out or killed him, but as it is, Lawyervamp clearly demonstrated poor judgement of a prospective client.

Besides, all his underlings will be pleased that a new job has opened up. That's how promotions work, right? Kill someone higher up the chain, or get them killed. Possibly by suggesting to your boss that the asshole new client isn't really a big deal and can be made to wait.
 
I have to completely agree with this. At the point where he had used violence, instead of just implying it, W&H should have thrown him out or tried to kill him. They simply can't afford anything else - it's bad policy to appear weak.

There is a big difference between an attack on the organization and internal politics. I'm pretty sure having to make your own opening for a promotion is traditional at W&H, and it's not a huge stretch to think they might tolerate a similar approach to getting a "promotion" from random yahoo to respected customer. Do you really think the literal demons among their clients never eat anyone that upsets them?

Now, I would expect them to be less tolerant if they are getting a customer instead of a replacement for the position, so at least a little more explanation is necessary for how Saint knows the vampire is low-level enough he can get away with it. (Taziel not interrupting him is a pretty good sign he's actually ok, but it's not like he waited for her opinion).
 
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It's not murder if the vic was already dead when you found him!

You realize that by the same sort of logic, it's not murder to kill humans, because they only live a handful or two of decades, so it's no great loss?

I have to completely agree with this. At the point where he had used violence, instead of just implying it, W&H should have thrown him out or tried to kill him. They simply can't afford anything else - it's bad policy to appear weak.

The problem some of you seem to be having, is that you expect W&H to react like a human organisation would.

On the one hand a supervillain organization run by demons is probably going to react differently to things than a normal law firm. But on the other hand, the greatest sin to a demon is being weak -- with looking weak a close second. If any scruffy human can walk in off the street and kill WR&H personnel at whim, it makes them look weak.

The proper time to engage in violence was with the human flunky, who could be killed without repercussions. Once he got to the vampire, the proper degree of violence was to flatten the guy, make it clear he was a split second from a date with a dust buster, then demand to speak with someone with at least a little good sense.

Humans are GARBAGE as far as most demons are concerned. Even vampire minion fledglings rate higher than a human. The best analogy I can give for this is a black person in the south back during the Jim Crow days -- things a white man could get away with would result in a black man being summarily executed by a lynch mob.

The realistic response, given the nature of the place, is to swarm the uppity human with a tactical team, and keep escalating HARD until he is dead or he is in close quarters combat with the Wolf, the Ram and the Hart themselves. The city will be collateral damage long before he meets the Senior Partners, mind you. Assuming he lives that long, anyway. A first circle demon is capable of accidentaly'ing the planet Earth -- and they worship Old Ones as GODS.

The only thing that can plausibly save the idiot is Taziel. A bonafide angel, even a fallen one, is major supernatural power. A fallen angel could get away with killing someone considerably higher in rank than an entry-level associate. Hell, if the idiot had simply popped out her wings and let the power flow freely, he wouldn't have needed to make any kind of violent display at all to be respected by WR&H -- he'd never have even met the flunky.
 
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You realize that by the same sort of logic, it's not murder to kill humans, because they only live a handful or two of decades, so it's no great loss?
That's a faulty comparison. A vampire is a corpse, you can't murder something is already dead (even the blood demon/vampire spirit animating the corpse isn't really killed, just banished back to Hell to be recycled into another corpse eventually). Killing a human, can be murder because you are ending the person's life, (regardless of average lifespan)
 
The only thing that can plausibly save the idiot is Taziel. A bonafide angel, even a fallen one, is major supernatural power. A fallen angel could get away with killing someone considerably higher in rank than an entry-level associate. Hell, if the idiot had simply popped out her wings and let the power flow freely, he wouldn't have needed to make any kind of violent display at all to be respected by WR&H -- he'd never have even met the flunky.
That (letting his wings show) would have been the smartest decision - he'll have to do this anyway in order to establish his credentials. It might have been discarded for risk of W&H "cleaning up" all nearby humans to preserve the masquerade as a "courtesy" to Saint, but that wasn't shown.
 
That's a faulty comparison. A vampire is a corpse, you can't murder something is already dead (even the blood demon/vampire spirit animating the corpse isn't really killed, just banished back to Hell to be recycled into another corpse eventually). Killing a human, can be murder because you are ending the person's life, (regardless of average lifespan)

It's only faulty to you because you are biased in thinking human life is more valuable.

When you stake a vampire, the person ceases to exist. Yeah, the soul/spirit goes back to wherever it originally came from, but it gets wiped into a blank slate in the process. If making a person cease to exist except as a blank slate is not murder, then doing the same to a human would not be either. After all, humans go to Heaven or reincarnate, right? They're not REALLY dead, so killing the meat portion isn't murder.

You are mistaking different physiology for lack of it. A good example (fittingly, given the Star Trek anniversary and all) would be the Horta. A species that is silicon based and reads on scanners as an inexplicably self-mobile rock. They have art, poetry and are at least as intelligent as a human -- but they don't have a heart, they don't breathe and they don't have blood as humans recognize it. By your logic, killing them would not be murder. After all, they're just a rock.

That (letting his wings show) would have been the smartest decision - he'll have to do this anyway in order to establish his credentials. It might have been discarded for risk of W&H "cleaning up" all nearby humans to preserve the masquerade as a "courtesy" to Saint, but that wasn't shown.

It's unlikely they would need to clean up, since the SI already saw an obvious nonhuman wandering around the elevators. More likely, they have someing like a Someone Else's Problem field up that targets normal humans. Probably keyed off pre-existing knowledge of the supernatural.
 
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I think we're forgetting a bit of context. This isn't some random human who walked in and threatened the staff after getting the run around from them and then killed a vampire. This is someone who arrived in the company of a non-human client and probably has a weird mystical presence due to not being from this part of the multiverse, and having a fallen angel hitchhiker.

I think Wolfram Hart are going to be a bit more lenient in this case.
 
It's only faulty to you because you are biased in thinking human life is more valuable.

When you stake a vampire, the person ceases to exist. Yeah, the soul/spirit goes back to wherever it originally came from, but it gets wiped into a blank slate in the process. If making a person cease to exist except as a blank slate is not murder, then doing the same to a human would not be either. After all, humans go to Heaven or reincarnate, right? They're not REALLY dead, so killing the meat portion isn't murder.
The person ceased to exist as soon as the body dies and the demon spirit moves in. It's explicitly stated in Buffy that when a vampire is 'sired', the human soul moves on to whatever afterlife awaits it, and a Blood demon is summoned to move in. The demon has access to the person's memories, and pretends to be that person, may even believe that it's the person, but in the end it's just a really good identity thief.

The soul is shown in canon to not be reduced to a blank slate, as shown by the fact that the gypsies could curse Liam's soul back into his corpse to torment the vampire spirit.

You may not feel that interpretation is accurate, but it is canon for the setting.
 
The person ceased to exist as soon as the body dies and the demon spirit moves in. It's explicitly stated in Buffy that when a vampire is 'sired', the human soul moves on to whatever afterlife awaits it, and a Blood demon is summoned to move in. The demon has access to the person's memories, and pretends to be that person, may even believe that it's the person, but in the end it's just a really good identity thief.

The soul is shown in canon to not be reduced to a blank slate, as shown by the fact that the gypsies could curse Liam's soul back into his corpse to torment the vampire spirit.

You may not feel that interpretation is accurate, but it is canon for the setting.
It's still rather rude you know?
 
50
"You know... we could also use some money." I commented to myself as I watched the cab drive off.

"Do you have time to go to the middle east?" Taziel asked from next to me, "It seems like it would conflict with your current plans."

I gave them the location of a buried treasure somewhere in current day Egypt that Taziel told me about. Assuming that it was located, half the value of the treasure would be added to a retainer account with Wolfram and Hart. They are competent and very knowledgeable.

What they don't have though is super intelligent pocket change. Taziel went through the contract three times.

We found five traps, two of which we were meant to find and three hidden ones. Also, seven loopholes.

It took three hours before we hashed out a solid contract.

"You know, it would have been much faster if you simply mentioned my name, My Host." Taziel's shadow commented from next to me, "We could have saved hours."

Yes. But this contract was not with you, it was with me. And this way, they don't know you exist yet.

"Indeed, my host." She purred and disappeared back into the back of my head.

There was a moment of waiting before the door opened to reveal Lazarus. She blinked at me in surprise, "Saint... you are back early."

I shrugged, "There was some trouble."

"You? In trouble? Say it's not so!" she teased and then pulled me into a hug. I grinned and hugged back,

"How's your mother?"

Lazarus beamed at me, "She's doing much better. She still can't walk, her legs are still too weak, but she can move them and she can sit up and hold things!"

"Awesome. Can I come in?"

She backed away and frowned at me, "Don't know. Can you?"

"...You ask that 'after' the hug?" I snorted and stepped across the threshold.

"Well, I was fairly sure." Laz said with a smile as she reached out to hook a finger to pull the chain of the cross around my neck out in the open, "I could see the chain."

"Smart girl."

She rolled her eyes and walked to the right (,) into the kitchen, "Want some tea?"

"Oh gods yes." I sighed and followed her inside, sinking down onto the chair by the small kitchen table as I looked around. The place looked very lived in, but everything was clean and in good repair.

"So what's the trouble this time?" She asked as she put a pair of cups into the microwave. I suppressed the urge to sigh. She could be such a barbarian.

"Slayer."

Lazarus frowned at me and leaned back against the kitchen counter, "...But the Slayer is supposed to be on the good side."

"Yeah, well... her bosses don't like me. I think I may have disrupted a prophecy of theirs once too many so the new slayer got a couple of bad dreams about me. Specifically about me killing two women." I explained and pointed at her, "You and your mother."

"Oh."

"Yeah, so I (figured I would let her track me down here and that should clear things up." I sighed and rubbed the bridge of my nose.

"So it's nothing to do with... her?"

I shrugged, "Nope. I don't think I'm a monster... so no. At least not this time."

If I was, she would be dead on Hawaii. I had her dead to rights even without picking up the coin. I remember Kendra being more skilled, it likely would take time to absorb the spirit's abilities... like with me and the Doomslayer. It's been well over half a year and it's still a nightly ongoing process.

"...Laz?" I then continued, "You would tell me if I started to turn... evil, right?"

She cringed slightly and crossed her arms as the microwave dinged, "I'm fairly sure I would be one of the first people to notice anyway."

"Laz..."

"No, it's nothing." She sighed and carried the cups over to the table, "It's just that you can be really scary sometimes even when we are on the same side. I really, really don't like the idea of you going Dark side on us."

"...You and me both." I sighed and picked up the burning hot cup and dropped one of the tea bags in, "So... mind if I stick around for a week or two? It shouldn't take that long for her to track me down. We filed a flight plan and everything. The Slayer might not know how to track that, but the council would. I have a plan."

She frowned at me, "Flight plan? You didn't fly commercial?"

"Well... no. I kinda hitched a ride, a guy owed me a favor." I answered with a shrug, "And his daughter was heading this way anyway."

Lazarus raised an eyebrow at me, "Daughter?"

"A friend... or maybe girlfriend. I'm not entirely certain actually."

"...perhaps you should start from the beginning."



AN// Many thanks to -Mech- for betaing this part.
 
Sooo.... What was the point of killing the vampire lawyer? I mean, I know that the only good Vampire is a dead Vampire, but it's still kind of rude ya know?

FTFY.

Angel was a coward that spent 100 years in the gutter feeding off of rats. The only reason he came out of the gutter was because he was offered sex with a fifteen year old by the PtB (that's how old Buffy was when Angel was first made aware of her existence).

Even then he only stepped in to help when he was prodded by Whistler and his actions pre and post return of Angelus were entirely self motivated.

Anyways as far as demons are concerned, vampires are only a small step above humans in the food chain. There are always more of them and losing one, or a few dozen of them doesn't really affect Wolfram and Hart's bottom line.
 
51
I glanced back down the street. It was empty, lit only by the scattered streetlights, the sounds of the city filling the background.

Where is she?

I had only caught glimpses and hints of her all evening. Come on, Slayer. Make your move already.

Wolfram and Hart had not been involved, but I had hired a couple of private investigators to keep an eye on the airports. I had enough money for that, but if things continue like this, I would need to either get a job or go dig up one of those treasures Taz knows of within the next couple of months.

Though I suppose I could just get a group together and hit some vampire nests.

Okay. Let's do this.

We were close to the docks, well outside the city proper so there were plenty of alleyways to duck in to into.

Breaking into a run, I did so, dodging into the alley to the right I followed it and then , taking another right and then a left, across the street and onto the next alley. Around the corner and come to a halt. The area was barely lit, but still plenty enough to see.

It only took a couple of seconds or so before the slayer came around the corner, pausing when she spotted me to pull a big, nasty knife from beneath her jacket.

"You can not get away from me, daemon."

I shrugged, "Not a demon. Not even evil. I've told you twice now already." I said and turned to her, "If you would just listen for a second and we can go to a payphone, we could call the women you think I killed."

She hesitated, "I saw what I saw."

"No, you saw what your bosses think they saw or wanted you to see. In any case, it's wrong."

"Don't listen to him, Anna." A man said as he walked up next to her, working to catch his breath, "Demons lie, it's what they do."

I raised an eyebrow at him, "Watcher? And your name would be?"

"Irrelevant. Anna."

"Yes, sir." she agreed and whirled her knife once before stepping forward. Damn it, I almost had her to listen.

"Watcher, call her off. I have had dealings with the council in the past and despite you guys always acting like massive dicks and not paying what you owed, I'm willing to put that behind us." I said, my eyes locked at the slayer as I slowly backed away, circling to the left.

A little more. Come on.

She struck and instead of trying to meet her charge, I slipped to the side, lashing out to deflect her knife hand as I let her pass.

Anna span to face me again and Aiko stepped silently out of invisibility behind her and slipped her arms around her waist before kissing her neck.

The Slayer just kinda melted into her touch, the knife dropping onto the ground in a clatter as I turned and pulled my gun, pointing it at the Watcher who froze at the sight.

"Now, can we please have a pleasant conversation?" I asked him with a sigh, "Because I really don't want this to continue the way things have been going. Laz!"

Lazarus walked into the area from the other direction and did a small wave, "Hey."

I kept my gun at the Watcher and motioned at Laz, "One of the women I'm said to have killed. Now could you please calm the fuck down?"

He looked at her and then at me before turning to his slayer, "Anna?"

Aiko planted small kisses along the side of her neck and the slayer made small happy sounds. As fun as that would be to keep watching, I rolled my eyes, "Aiko, I think you can stop now."

No reaction.

"Aiko!"

She sighed and stopped, pulling back with a pout, "Very well." she said and smoothly bent down to snatch the dropped knife up before heading over to me with an admittedly rather nice sway in her hips, "She tastes good."

That didn't really surprise me to be honest. Slayers had a lot of power in a very small package. No wonder somebody that fed on life energy would like it.

The Slayer blinked and then scowled as she recovered, reaching up to touch her neck as I pointed my thumb at Lazarus again,

"Well?"

Anna blinked and looked at her before frowning, "This is a trick."

"Is that one of them?" her watcher asked and slowly moved up to her. I lowered my gun to not keep it aimed direction at (him but still kept it safely grasped and pointed in his general direction.

"She looks like the younger one." the slayer said with a frown, "But...it has to be some kind of trick."

I shook my head, "No trick. Either your bosses have had it with me fucking with their carefully laid prophecies or they saw wrong."

The Watcher frowned at me, "Prophecies?"

"I was not willing to be eaten just so things remained on track." I sighed and set the safety back on the gun and putting it back into my pocket, "Also another couple of things. I have killed humans, but just two. One was a chaos sorcerer trying to put a spell on an entire town and the other was trying to eat me. Literally. I'm on the side of the angels here."

Lazarus let out a small choked sound at that but nodded.

Anna stared at me, her eyes flicking between me, Aiko and Lazarus, "What are you?"

"Human. But I have some friends that are not. Such as the lady here." I stated, motioning towards Aiko.

"Bullshit, I saw you with wings."

I shook my head, "You dreamed I had wings. There is a difference." I said before I looked at her watcher, "So I would appreciate it if you stopped trying to murder me!"



AN// Big thanks to -Mech- for betaing this section.
 
nna span to face me again and Aiko stepped silently out of invisibility behind her and slipped her arms around her waist before kissing her neck.

The Slayer just kinda melted into her touch

...

Aiko planted small kisses along the side of her neck and the slayer made small happy sounds. As fun as that would be to keep watching, I rolled my eyes, "Aiko, I think you can stop now."

No reaction.

"Aiko!"

She sighed and stopped, pulling back with a pout, "Very well." she said and smoothly bent down to snatch the dropped knife up before heading over to me with an admittedly rather nice sway in her hips, "She tastes good."
*scribbles another entry into The Chart*

Anna stared at me, her eyes flicking between me, Aiko and Lazarus, "What are you?"

"Human. But I have some friends that are not. Such as the lady here." I stated, motioning towards Aiko.

"Bullshit, I saw you with wings."

I shook my head, "You dreamed I had wings. There is a difference." I said before I looked at her watcher, "So I would appreciate it if you stopped trying to murder me!"
Countdown until Saint uses The Coin in Anna's presence, immediately exposing the lie?
 
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