Hell is other angels

That's what the Jedi thought, and look what happened to them. Their entire order nearly wiped out, and the numbers ended up relatively balanced in the end, if you go strictly by the movies series. Palpatine and Vader for the dark side, Yoda and Luke for the light side. I guess you could make the argument for the end of episode 6 being the Chosen one clearing the dark side, but then Episode 7 came out.

Nope. As...laughable as WoG is when concerning Star Wars...That's the official ruling. The Sith are bad, they harm existence by existing and perverting the force.

I personally prefer the interpretation that "The Sith" and "The Dark Side" are separate, and that the sith just abuse the force in a specific way, but that's what I read.
 
Nope. As...laughable as WoG is when concerning Star Wars...That's the official ruling. The Sith are bad, they harm existence by existing and perverting the force.

I personally prefer the interpretation that "The Sith" and "The Dark Side" are separate, and that the sith just abuse the force in a specific way, but that's what I read.
Actually from what i'm seeing on wookiepedia that's legends canon not current movie canon at the very least it's listed only on the legends part of the page for the chosen one
 
I bit the inside of my cheek as I thought. That was something to consider at the very least. Evil scum or not, not needing to worry about being arrested would be damn nice. If we put clauses into the contact about not harming mortals, it might be possible. Need to think it over.
Someone seems to have forgotten about the fungibility of money.
 
That's what the Jedi thought, and look what happened to them. Their entire order nearly wiped out, and the numbers ended up relatively balanced in the end, if you go strictly by the movies series. Palpatine and Vader for the dark side, Yoda and Luke for the light side. I guess you could make the argument for the end of episode 6 being the Chosen one clearing the dark side, but then Episode 7 came out.
Nope. The prophecy was correct. It just took longer than expected for it to work. Anakin brought balance to the Force by destroying the Sith and their practicing of the Darkside. The fact that he ended up killing all but a tiny few Jedi in the process is unrelated to his fulfilling of the Prophecy. If a few choices went differently, Anakin would have fulfilled it much earlier, but Palpatine is a master manipulator and was able to effectively control the circumstances around Anakin's life just enough to make him willing to side with him in the end.
 
Nope. The prophecy was correct. It just took longer than expected for it to work. Anakin brought balance to the Force by destroying the Sith and their practicing of the Darkside. The fact that he ended up killing all but a tiny few Jedi in the process is unrelated to his fulfilling of the Prophecy. If a few choices went differently, Anakin would have fulfilled it much earlier, but Palpatine is a master manipulator and was able to effectively control the circumstances around Anakin's life just enough to make him willing to side with him in the end.

Honestly, this is a bit off topic, but if I had more faith in the capability of Lucas and any other writers of Star wars i would view that prophecy as a very clever bit of work, deliberately made to be true both to herald the fall of the Jedi order at the hands of the Sith - bringing the two groups to parity with one another in balance - and also later heralding the fall of the Sith once and for all - bringing balance to the force with the birth of a new Jedi Order unlike any that came before. One prophecy for two separate events and people. Would have fitted perfectly, and very cleverly if things had gone down that way. If you can write a prophecy like that into a story I think it's one of those few times it wouldn't annoy me, prophecy tending to aggravate me in fiction. Kills a lot of investment in events unless it's handled well. Like Wheel of Time - all the prophecy's are stated to be meaning unknown until they have already been completed and tend to pop up too late to be meaningful precursors, instead just becoming colorful summations. Or the Belgariad, which has two equally valid prophecies working at cross purposes (and the prophecies themselves are sentient, which I don't think I've seen anywhere else). Point is, a clever prophecy or none at all.
 
Honestly, this is a bit off topic, but if I had more faith in the capability of Lucas and any other writers of Star wars i would view that prophecy as a very clever bit of work, deliberately made to be true both to herald the fall of the Jedi order at the hands of the Sith - bringing the two groups to parity with one another in balance - and also later heralding the fall of the Sith once and for all - bringing balance to the force with the birth of a new Jedi Order unlike any that came before. One prophecy for two separate events and people. Would have fitted perfectly, and very cleverly if things had gone down that way. If you can write a prophecy like that into a story I think it's one of those few times it wouldn't annoy me, prophecy tending to aggravate me in fiction. Kills a lot of investment in events unless it's handled well. Like Wheel of Time - all the prophecy's are stated to be meaning unknown until they have already been completed and tend to pop up too late to be meaningful precursors, instead just becoming colorful summations. Or the Belgariad, which has two equally valid prophecies working at cross purposes (and the prophecies themselves are sentient, which I don't think I've seen anywhere else). Point is, a clever prophecy or none at all.
I totally agree with that, though I've not read either Wheel of Time or the Belgariad. Prophecy only works when done very carefully and is too often used as a crutch to storytelling.
 
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Say what you want about evil lawyers, they had some damn good Earl Grey.

"Indeed, my host." Taziel agreed from the couch tight next to me with a smile, sitting with her legs pulled in beneath her and leaning slightly against me, her shoulder against mine. She took a sip from her own cup. It was all an illusion of course but I suppose she experienced the taste of the drink when I drank mine.

I looked over at the door Aiko disappeared in through for her meeting. Been half an hour already, but I guess this kind of thing takes time. The doors to the elevator slid open and a blue demon walked out, two horns clearly visible on it's forehead as it crossed the room, walking alongside a human lawyer.

I sipped my tea to keep from sneering. Demon lawyers... and demons for lawyers. This entire place deserved to be purged and burned to the fucking ground.

Taz pursed her lips, "Not arguing with you on that one. But the fact remains that we need Wolfram and Hart more than we could gain by burning them down and slaughtering them to the last man as a warning for future generations that some deals have too high of a price."

This time I did scowl and take a drink of my tea. The worst thing was that she was a hundred percent correct. There were other lawyers, but few with these guys resources and none that I knew of that knew about our side of the street. When they finally tried to end the world... well, we'll find a way to help stop them.

Even if the PTBs were pissed at me, something told me that they would be willing to play ball with that, especially if I managed to get slay-gal to calm down. Honestly, things were of the rails already, as soon as I seen (see) if I can check up on Faith, I should head back to Sunnydale and clear things up with the group there if I can.

Sunnydale is still the flashpoint and if the Mayor ascended... well, everything's fucked. Then again, the military might be able to deal with him. Bet some Hellfire missiles could give him a bad day.

"Unless it only worked because he was too young to get his real defenses ready." Taziel commented next to me and then pointed at the secretaries desk, "She seems to be done with her call. If you do wish to hire them as our lawyers, it may be a good time to ask to speak with someone."

Let's get this over with.

Finishing my tea, I put the cup down on the table next to the desk before I headed over to her, "Excuse me, I would like to talk to one of your lawyers."

The blonde girl smiled brightly at me, "Of course, sir. May I ask whom and what it's regarding?"

"Lawyer and putting up a retainer account."

One of her very sculpted eyebrows went up a tiny amount as she looked at me but her expression didn't change a single bit, "And your name, sir?"

"Saint."

"Very well, sir. Someone will be with you shortly."

Nodding, I returned to the couch to wait. Thirty minutes later I was still waiting. I irritably flipped a page in the Times magazine I was reading. Man this was taking forever.

"Sir?"

I glanced up to see someone looking like he was younger than I was waiting for me, he had short brown hair and was wearing a dark suit suit as he offered me his hand, "Jared Hopkins. Wolfram and Hart, I'm sure I can assist you with whatever it is that you need."

I looked at his hand and then up at him, "You are a lawyer?"

"Para legal, sir."

Oh for fuck's sake...

I returned to my magazine, "Then I advise you that you turn around and go get someone that I'll want to talk to."

He seemed to hesitate and his hand dropped a bit, "Sir, I'm sure that I'm able to..."

"Can you set up a full retainer account?"

"...Sir, that's likely not necessary. I'm sure that if I'm not able to assist you, then perhaps I may be able to delegate you to a good public defendant."

I glanced up at him again, "Jared was it?"

"Yes sir."

"I'm quite aware that this is likely not your fault, but I would strongly advise you to go get someone a bit more senior." I sighed, rubbing my forehead.

"...My boss, Mister Reinhardt."

"Go tell him that I wish to speak to him. Now."

Taziel sighed, "Maybe something a bit more forceful would be useful?"

Jared frowned, "Sir, I'm afraid Mister Rei..."

Yeah, I think Taz might have a point there.

"Do you like having hands?"

"...I'll go deliver your message, sir." he answered and swallowed before scampering off.

I didn't blame him. I was young and wearing jeans and t-shirt. If I knew I would be talking to lawyers I would have brought the damn suit Aiko got me. Wasn't his idea that he would be assigned to paw me off to someone outside the firm either. That was his boss.

Taziel frowned at him as he left and shifted to cross her arms, "My host, I know that you dislike the idea of relying on me, but perhaps this would be a good opportunity for a show of force. It could save us a lot of grief further down the road if we make it clear that we won't stand for their bullshit."

I looked at her as I mulled it over before I shook my head. As much fun as it would be right now to pull his eye out of it's socket as soon as he appears, that's stepping over the 'evil' line. No matter who he is.

"Do keep in mind whom we are dealing with here." Taziel pointed out, "And like you've already noticed, the threat of force is one of the few ways to get them to toe the line."

(Hmph). Demonic lawyers... okay, well, human lawyers helping demons and evil forces get away with things the law should stop.

...Why do we want to hire these people again?

"Because they could let us get away with those same things as well as we work to stop those same evil forces. Just because they are on the other side don't meant we can't use them for our goals." Taz said with a smile, resting her head against my shoulder.

I sighed and started to flip through the magazine again. I had a feeling that this would be a long wait.

I was right. Some forty minutes passed before Jared return, trailing after a man in his thirties that had his dark hair slicked back, wearing a dark suit.

"Mister... Saint, was it?" He said as he got close, "Harold Reinhardt." he said and offered his hand as he looked me over.

Nodding, I got up and took his hand, "Indeed."

Cold hand.

"Cold, no pulse. Look at his eyes." Taziel said from next to me, "See how they don't move unless he is looking at something? None of those minor movements humans have. Some demons are like that, but also older vampires. Old ones of this kind at the very least tend to lose a lot of those instincts so it's an easy way to tell. Lack of breathing, small eye movements. Easy ways to tell at a distance."

Vampire?

Oh. Excellent.

I stepped up and stomped down hard on the side of his knee as I pulled him close by the hand, catching him of guard. The bloodsucking lawyer let out a scream of surprise and went down so I kneeded him in the nose as hard as I could. There was a sound of shattering bone and breaking cartilage as his head snapped back hard and as he fell back I pulled a stake from my pocket and slammed it into his heart, causing him to explode into dust.

Jared let out a small choked sound and stumbled back as I stood back up, shaking the dust from the stake.

"Jared, if you could please be so kind as to refer me to one of his associates instead? Do let them know that I dislike being kept waiting."

"Y-yes sir."



AN// Big thanks to -Mech- for betaing this part.
 
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Unless Hiver was waiting until now to make this a multicross...


Vampire?

Oh. Excellent.

I stepped up and stomped down hard on the side of his knee as I pulled him close by the hand, catching him of guard. The bloodsucking lawyer let out a scream of surprise and went down so I kneeded him in the nose as hard as I could. There was a sound of shattering bone and breaking cartilage as his head snapped back hard and as he fell back I pulled a stake from my pocket and slammed it into his heart, causing him to explode into dust.

Jared let out a small choked sound and stumbled back as I stood back up, shaking the dust from the stake.
It's not murder if the vic was already dead when you found him!
 
Sooo.... What was the point of killing the vampire lawyer? I mean, I know that the only good Vampire is Angel when he has a soul, but it's still kind of rude ya know?
 
...did he actually kill Reinhardt?

Because if so, that absolutely destroys my suspension of disbelief. Walking in the door, threatening an employee with violence, and then killing the lawyer you asked to see? At minimum, you get thrown onto the street and blacklisted so you can longer seek deals with them. A little worse than that is being killed in retaliation. A lot worse is whatever horrifying fate worse than death literal demon lawyers can cook up for you.

Even if W&H "respect only force," they simply cannot afford to let whatever punk who walks through the door get what they want by beating up or killing their employees. There are a few reasons for this, but the first that comes to mind is that such apathy towards their lives might as well be a declaration of open season on workers at the firm.

If they crumple in the face of an absolute nobody like Saint, why should anyone take them seriously?
 
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...did he actually kill Reinhardt?

Because if so, that absolutely destroys my suspension of disbelief. Walking in the door, threatening an employee with violence, and then killing the lawyer you asked to see? At minimum, you get thrown onto the street and blacklisted so you can longer seek deals with them. A little worse than that is being killed in retaliation. A lot worse is whatever horrifying fate worse than death literal demon lawyers can cook up for you.

Even if W&H "respect only force," they simply cannot afford to let whatever punk who walks through the door get what they want by beating up or killing their employees. There are a few reasons for this, but the first that comes to mind is that such apathy towards their lives might as well be a declaration of open season on workers at the firm.

If they crumple in the face of an absolute nobody like Saint, why should anyone take them seriously?
Actually Wolfram and Hart seems to kill a few dozen of their "employees" a day and IIRC actually offers the lives of their employees as something that can be bought.
 
Actually Wolfram and Hart seems to kill a few dozen of their "employees" a day and IIRC actually offers the lives of their employees as something that can be bought.
Look at it this way:

If you walked into the den of a drug gang, threatened the official greeter with bodily harm, then killed the first high-ranking man who offers you a handshake and an ear, do you think they would be willing to deal with you?

If you walked into a bank, threatened the official greeter with bodily harm, then killed the first high-ranking man who offers you a handshake and an ear, do you think they would be willing to deal with you?

If you walked into any sort of establishment anywhere and opened up by threats of bodily harm then killing the man who offers you a handshake, do you think they would be willing to deal with you? Or would they call on their security to put the fucking lunatic down?


Maybe the "employees" of W&H are functionally slaves to be bought and sold.* Fine. That's no reason to look over their murder or crippling (Saint threatened to remove that guy's hands) as if it was nothing - it's still wanton destruction of their property. They would treat it as a shopkeeper would treat a hooligan who trashes their vending machine with a baseball bat.

Saint's behavior here is thuggish and stupid. I've been enjoying the story so far, but if this doesn't result in realistic consequences then I am unwatching the thread.



*This leaves aside the fact that Reinhardt seems to have been significantly more than a simple office drone.
 
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Look at it this way:

If you walked into the den of a drug gang, threatened the official greeter with bodily harm, then killed the first high-ranking man who offers you a handshake and an ear, do you think they would be willing to deal with you?

If you walked into a bank, threatened the official greeter with bodily harm, then killed the first high-ranking man who offers you a handshake and an ear, do you think they would be willing to deal with you?

If you walked into any sort of establishment anywhere and opened up by threats of bodily harm then killing the man who offers you a handshake, do you think they would be willing to deal with you? Or would they call on their security to put the fucking lunatic down?


Maybe the "employees" of W&H are functionally slaves to be bought and sold.* Fine. That's no reason to look over their murder or crippling (Saint threatened to remove that guy's hands) as if it was nothing - it's still wanton destruction of their property. They would treat it as a shopkeeper would treat a hooligan who trashes their vending machine with a baseball bat.

Saint's behavior here is thuggish and stupid. I've been enjoying the story so far, but if this doesn't result in realistic consequences then I am unwatching the thread.



*This leaves aside the fact that Reinhardt seems to have been significantly more than a simple office drone.
I have to completely agree with this. At the point where he had used violence, instead of just implying it, W&H should have thrown him out or tried to kill him. They simply can't afford anything else - it's bad policy to appear weak.
 
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