Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

The -7DC we've been having here makes me metaphorically drool if not for the circumstances - can we find a Yama King we aren't so opposed to and try to do this there instead with their cooperation?

Or if that's not feasible, try to do it in Molly's soul while trying to reach out to the rebels there?
 
I doubt it would be agg damage and we have a super healer with us.
Magic. Might be non-physical damage like Derangements.
Hence the need to look the whole effect over.

Tiffany is smart enough in the ways of manipulating Harry to convince him. It's not extra soak; it's increased sexual stamina, etc.
Tiffany is smart enough not to.
The girl lived in the man's head; she knows how he reacts. And Harry is remarkably resistant to being led around by his nose, else Lara Raith would have had him a long time ago

There's a reason why she didnt press the issue when he declined the first time after she was incarnated, and again after Vegas.

We bought those recipes for a reason. And Malcoffee already worked and was accepted. All hail to gateway drugs.
Malcoffee gets by on being called malcoffee, not hypermeth :V
The analogues here are shit like ritalin for students and PEDs for bodybuilders, both of which you're going to have issues getting Molly to consider as legitimate pharmaceutical uses
 
[X] Flurry both actions

We bought those recipes for a reason. And Malcoffee already worked and was accepted. All hail to gateway drugs.
Malcoffee gets by on being called malcoffee, not hypermeth :V
The analogues here are shit like ritalin for students and PEDs for bodybuilders, both of which you're going to have issues getting Molly to consider as legitimate pharmaceutical uses

Uju I have to agree with Yog on the issue of combat or training drugs. You spent pages discussing how Molly wouldn't want Malcoffee when we got it when the real problem was our mother. Now with the front door open by our super cafe, and that Molly is pragmatic enough to take it rather than lose an important fight or let one of her friends get hurt without them, she's not going to fight it.

Finally, all of our recipes were approved by DragonParadox, meaning he saw nothing that would prevent them from being used, and as is only through he that we are really sure about what is IC or not for Molly, I am confident that we can use them.

I mean the spirits do count. Do you want to eat the drone spirits? I figured not since that is where you got Clippy and company.
Clearly...? In the vote even had a part explicitly to use MiM when possible. We are in the middle of combat with a time limit before we are inundated with mooks and we will need the power, if we were about to leave maybe the situation would be different.

[JK]Plan Hulk Out
-[]Molly: 2m
--[]Attack: Mind-Hand Manipulation + Occult Excellency to grapple Warden 1: 1m
--[]Free: Activate shield + roll to intimidate, using Source Code Compliance Protocol
--[]Reflexive: RR + VLE + Occult Excellency: 1m
--[]Other: Trigger Murder Is Meat on any kill
 
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Clearly...? In the vote even had a part explicitly to use MiM when possible. We are in the middle of combat with a time limit before we are inundated with mooks and we will need the power, if we were about to leave maybe the situation would be different.

[JK]Plan Hulk Out
-[]Molly: 2m
--[]Attack: Mind-Hand Manipulation + Occult Excellency to grapple Warden 1: 1m
--[]Free: Activate shield + roll to intimidate, using Source Code Compliance Protocol
--[]Reflexive: RR + VLE + Occult Excellency: 1m
--[]Other: Trigger Murder Is Meat on any kill

Fair, will add.
 
Fair. I dont agree.
Its a big thing for Molly and a key character and narrative point; I feel its being trivialized for the sake of gains.
Sweet gains sure, but doesnt change what it is.
Unless she's just never takes pharmaceutical drugs ever again and never gets any shots ever again we just view them as different things because the stat aids are essentially medicine they have no effect on mood or even mindset unless Molly considers lotion, shampoo or makeup as some kind of drug.

I would argue she doesn't because nothing stops her from drinking coffee or soda it seems to me she has a really distinct problem with essentially opioids and that whole trauma is not so much just around drugs but what they were doing to her friends and what she did in response to that doing. I would agree that you if you were talking about mind control or essentially hard drugs but we're talking about essentially protein powder, lotion or aspirin for how much it affects mood and mind state.
 
Splendors I can see a case for Lydia and Lash. Molly not so much
We put a lot into crafting that we didn't put into Molly's personal abilities. There are benefits to that, but it'd be good to see some feedback into our own kit.

I really want that armor @Yog designed, it's neat and lets us play with our own toys a little instead of being a McGuffin saleswoman. With so much investment in crafting we technically underperform for our exp equivalent if we don't use our own products.

The trade off is that we can do so much more with it than most any other power we could buy, but we still need to account for it. The opportunity cost of our build was having things like SBS available for this encounter, but we could have had a tool like my brainburster weapon arcana for much the same role.

We fought lesser akuma, who have some claim to mortality. And what appears to be programmed drones.
We're in the afterlife though. I don't want to salt too hard over this, but no one here is functionally mortal. Everyone here is immortal the same way greater akuma are on earth, except for greater Akuma themselves who can only die a final death in hell, because Yomi Wan will keep their souls and reconstitute them.

The point of that charm is to let players banish people from the plot instead of their immortality letting them do stuff like report back to their masters or ready up for round 2. I guess I was reading too much into it, but I figured it was at least somewhat contextual. As in the standard was if something could continue acting on the world after being stabbed to death then we could eat it, but only as long as that was true.


Prior to this I'd have thought that greater Akuma and lesser ones would basically switch places for the purposes of MiM while in hell. Because denying a final death gives Molly the leverage to eat a soul, and being subject to one takes it away. Similarly killing summons should totally qualify for MiM because they just get kicked out to reform at home, but if we stab them in their origin realm where they can't defy death I don't think we should be able to MiM them. That fits the vibe of infernal "well technically" charm legalism like a glove.

The charm got reworked so we could avoid just homebrewing a better version later, but the way it plays out temps me to do exactly that. It feels like a waste though, so I'd prefer carrying some essence vessels so we can slurp souls to eat for power when we need to.
We bought those recipes for a reason. And Malcoffee already worked and was accepted. All hail to gateway drugs
Agreed. Those things are too useful to not be part of Molly's daily routine.

They're also a good trade resource for buying Tiffany's help. It's poor form to suck up a friend's resources without offering something in return, and I'd argue they should make it easier for her to boost herself since they're already starting a transformation themselves. Even if they don't the social one effects attributes shape flesh has difficulty touching, so it's a pretty even exchange.
Fair. I dont agree.
Its a big thing for Molly and a key character and narrative point; I feel its being trivialized for the sake of gains.
Sweet gains sure, but doesnt change what it is
Molly's drug problem was with party stuff; it made you feel good but ultimately left you worse off than it found you. The alchemical recipes we have don't have a high baked in, and build you up instead of breaking you down.

They also benefit from looking very different. Fancy lotion doesn't feel the same as a needle or snorting a line would.
I dont really see the point?
Molly isnt short on Essence at the moment. Just have these be drones like Lydia's golem things.
No need for a retcon.
I'd prefer the essence. We're never going to regret having more on hand, but being a few motes short could kill us.
 
The -7DC we've been having here makes me metaphorically drool if not for the circumstances - can we find a Yama King we aren't so opposed to and try to do this there instead with their cooperation?

Or if that's not feasible, try to do it in Molly's soul while trying to reach out to the rebels there?
We fundamentally cannot benefit from CCC in our KIngdom. Not without a lot of workarounds. We might not be able to benefit from some of this stuff in hells with actually friendly Yama kings either.

The biggest benefit that we are not using would be in Kakuri, I think. Moreover, in Kakuri doing social stuff. Because there, the bonuses stack to -9 DC (CCC + TLF + BSM + DPE) and +2 bonus dice.
Malcoffee gets by on being called malcoffee, not hypermeth :V
The analogues here are shit like ritalin for students and PEDs for bodybuilders, both of which you're going to have issues getting Molly to consider as legitimate pharmaceutical uses
Performance enhancing drugs, especially ones that are actually safe (and Molly knows is safe) are different from entertainment drugs.
-Splendors I can see a case for Lydia and Lash. Molly not so much.
Why the hell not? Molly is a maker of wonders. The first person to benefit from those should be Molly. It's ridiculous to deny ourselves very clear benefits.
Agreed. Those things are too useful to not be part of Molly's daily routine.

They're also a good trade resource for buying Tiffany's help. It's poor form to suck up a friend's resources without offering something in return, and I'd argue they should make it easier for her to boost herself since they're already starting a transformation themselves. Even if they don't the social one effects attributes shape flesh has difficulty touching, so it's a pretty even exchange.
Indeed. They are unmitigated good, and inventing reasons not to use them seems very strange. Our circle should benefit each other, and we can do so.
 
We fundamentally cannot benefit from CCC in our KIngdom. Not without a lot of workarounds. We might not be able to benefit from some of this stuff in hells with actually friendly Yama kings either.

The biggest benefit that we are not using would be in Kakuri, I think. Moreover, in Kakuri doing social stuff. Because there, the bonuses stack to -9 DC (CCC + TLF + BSM + DPE) and +2 bonus dice.
This is a dangerous game to play even for us. I think it'd be better to only try this in places where we've taken indirect control.

For example, it's established our cyber devils are vicious enough to trap us despite being loyal and I don't see why that'd have to change with assignment. If we took the wicked city and made clippy regent we could then use it this way.

Alternatively we have a copy of Mikaboshi's homework and Lydia wants to murder that shadow road soon. What if we copy his notes in a non-asshole way?

Rip the thing to pieces and make them into Splendor-Pillars for a pocket that technically counts as Yomi Wan. Then "sell" it to Lydia to pay off a technical debt for her assistance in making in the first place and for the perpetual right to have a workshop there but specifically not free passage through it. Once it's out of our control she can lock the borders to us to give us the same effect.

Long term projects, but ultimately I think the only safe lords of hell to do business with are ones we install ourselves.

Why the hell not? Molly is a maker of wonders. The first person to benefit from those should be Molly. It's ridiculous to deny ourselves very clear benefits.
Also worth emphasizing again that there is opportunity cost to our build choices. I think crafting was the right pick, but if we don't use it for our direct advantage we'll underperform compared to equal exp builds.
Indeed. They are unmitigated good, and inventing reasons not to use them seems very strange. Our circle should benefit each other, and we can do so.
Another thing for the docket would be to release them to our hell. I don't know if they have an equivalent or not, but even in that case comparing them might be of some use.
 
Another thing for the docket would be to release them to our hell. I don't know if they have an equivalent or not, but even in that case comparing them might be of some use.
Oh, definitely. We should be releasing our recipes to our kingdom, as part of "earning our keep" as it was (we do service by MiSing all the Gurvel, but the more an average citizen benefits, the more the crown is respected). It's also important to note that with Alchemy 4 our understanding of malcoffee (and other 2 dot recipes) is good enough that we can make it without resource expenditure in the field. If we can pass on this understanding, mass production in our kingdom may begin. I am also planning on getting the inventory potion 4 dot recipe and sharing it with our kingdom for economic benefits.
This is a dangerous game to play even for us. I think it'd be better to only try this in places where we've taken indirect control.

For example, it's established our cyber devils are vicious enough to trap us despite being loyal and I don't see why that'd have to change with assignment. If we took the wicked city and made clippy regent we could then use it this way.

Alternatively we have a copy of Mikaboshi's homework and Lydia wants to murder that shadow road soon. What if we copy his notes in a non-asshole way?

Rip the thing to pieces and make them into Splendor-Pillars for a pocket that technically counts as Yomi Wan. Then "sell" it to Lydia to pay off a technical debt for her assistance in making in the first place and for the perpetual right to have a workshop there but specifically not free passage through it. Once it's out of our control she can lock the borders to us to give us the same effect.

Long term projects, but ultimately I think the only safe lords of hell to do business with are ones we install ourselves.
Questing to slay what might be Ebon Dragon's Neverborn is definitely an epic quest. I am all for Lydia getting / rebuilding her kingdom, but we'll probably need a lot of steps before that one.

My point with Kakuri was that Molly's most powerful ability, and it's absurd, really, would be social, when in Yomi Wan. And we did sign up for trying to redeem Emma-O. We might be closer to being able to do something about it than I thought.
 
Unless she's just never takes pharmaceutical drugs ever again and never gets any shots ever again we just view them as different things because the stat aids are essentially medicine they have no effect on mood or even mindset unless Molly considers lotion, shampoo or makeup as some kind of drug.

I would argue she doesn't because nothing stops her from drinking coffee or soda it seems to me she has a really distinct problem with essentially opioids and that whole trauma is not so much just around drugs but what they were doing to her friends and what she did in response to that doing. I would agree that you if you were talking about mind control or essentially hard drugs but we're talking about essentially protein powder, lotion or aspirin for how much it affects mood and mind state.
My willingness to take pharmaceutical drugs does not extend to being willing to take gear for bodybuilding.
A willingness to drink coffee or no-doz or energy drinks when studying does not customarily extend to ritalin or adderall. Alcohol permissiveness does not automatically translate to weed, or ecstasy.

A specops troops willingness to take go-pills on combat duty does not translate to the use of cocaine.
A vegans willingness to use vaccines gestated in chicken eggs doesnt mean they are willing to gorge on chicken breasts.


I am of the opinion that there's entirely too much motivated reasoning going on to justify this.

We are playing a teenager whose ex was medically invalided due to drug use and the magic used to make him stop.
Whose friend almost ruined her life around it. Who had the drug thing as the wedge used by a Nephandus to attempt to destroy her and a lot of her loved ones. Who DID end up on a tree in Arctis Tor.

Thats a very fraught topic for her, and the cavalierness with which arguments are being advanced to ignore the narrative issues around it in pursuit of mechanical optimization ignores the RP part of the RPG.


We put a lot into crafting that we didn't put into Molly's personal abilities. There are benefits to that, but it'd be good to see some feedback into our own kit.
I saw, and still see Crafting primarily as something to affect the larger world with. The Dragons Nest, Lily, Vegas, allies.
Not really something to buff Molly routinely, who has plenty of options inside her skillset.
Especially since high-end reagents arent exactly mass-produced or without consequence.

Not particularly enthused about it.
Especially since there is a hard cap on how many of these things Molly can have at a time.
Molly sure as fuck doesnt need armor at E4.

If she's going to spend her personal Prodigy/Splendor slots on something, they should both be worth the expense, and do stuff that isnt currently in her charmset.
My opinion.


We're in the afterlife though. I don't want to salt too hard over this, but no one here is functionally mortal. Everyone here is immortal the same way greater akuma are on earth, except for greater Akuma themselves who can only die a final death in hell, because Yomi Wan will keep their souls and reconstitute them.
This isnt accurate.
There's significant numbers of both living humans and other shen in Yomi Wan, wittingly or not; Bakemono Bob is not particularly unique.

The point of that charm is to let players banish people from the plot instead of their immortality letting them do stuff like report back to their masters or ready up for round 2. I guess I was reading too much into it, but I figured it was at least somewhat contextual. As in the standard was if something could continue acting on the world after being stabbed to death then we could eat it, but only as long as that was true.
Yes. Agreed.

Agreed. Those things are too useful to not be part of Molly's daily routine.

They're also a good trade resource for buying Tiffany's help. It's poor form to suck up a friend's resources without offering something in return, and I'd argue they should make it easier for her to boost herself since they're already starting a transformation themselves. Even if they don't the social one effects attributes shape flesh has difficulty touching, so it's a pretty even exchange.
Disagree. For some theoretical Infernal with no hangups with regards to drug use, sure.
Not for Molly Carpenter.

Disagree. There's nothing in optimizing the physical, social or mental specifics of a person's body that alchemy can do that a master of the Lore of Flesh and many/most of the memories of a Fallen angel cannot already do for themselves if they so choose. Especially when they live in a house with spirit of knowledge and noted alchemical expert Bob in the basement.

While I do agree in principle with regards to Tiffany and exchange of services, Molly is better served focusing on shit Tiffany cant already do for herself.
At the moment, the ledger is significantly in her favor anyway, assuming we are keeping score.


Molly's drug problem was with party stuff; it made you feel good but ultimately left you worse off than it found you. The alchemical recipes we have don't have a high baked in, and build you up instead of breaking you down.
They also benefit from looking very different. Fancy lotion doesn't feel the same as a needle or snorting a line would.
We dont know that.

We know Molly was arrested at a party and charged with possession. We know that some of her friends used drugs; Rosie specifically used heroin. We dont know what drugs her other friends used, or indeed what drugs (if any) Molly herself used.
The drug culture of American teenagers and college students is not just a recreational thing.



I'd prefer the essence. We're never going to regret having more on hand, but being a few motes short could kill us.
Narrative reasons have at least as much importance as mechanical optimization in this sort of storytelling.
And I can see Molly hesitating about, say, nomming cyberdevils who never knew any better.
As opposed to, say, greater akuma, who went into servitude with eyes open.

Or indeed, other mechanically optimal choices that might have narrative or social effects depending on who her audience is.
Would she want to do this in range of Mikaboshi's sensors and recorders, for example?
Would freed spirits flee her?

The bond drones were very much intelligent and you killed one of them before they could blow
*shrug*
Thats your choice as the QM.
I just didnt see the point of a narrative retcon for 2m of Essence.
 
Vote closed, lets see how this goes.
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on May 25, 2024 at 11:18 AM, finished with 64 posts and 19 votes.
 
My willingness to take pharmaceutical drugs does not extend to being willing to take gear for bodybuilding.
A willingness to drink coffee or no-doz or energy drinks when studying does not customarily extend to ritalin or adderall. Alcohol permissiveness does not automatically translate to weed, or ecstasy.

A specops troops willingness to take go-pills on combat duty does not translate to the use of cocaine.
A vegans willingness to use vaccines gestated in chicken eggs doesnt mean they are willing to gorge on chicken breasts.
All of your examples have costs baked in. This doesn't.
 
Performance enhancing drugs, especially ones that are actually safe (and Molly knows is safe) are different from entertainment drugs.
I dont believe they are for Molly Carpenter's purposes. There's certainly nothing in her biography that says her experience was limited to entertainment drugs.

Its instructive that in canon, she allegedly was a pretty practiced user of alchemy; thats how she kept doing a lot of her crazy hair colors IIRC.
But unlike Harry, we never see her use potions.

And safety has nothing to do with this.
Molly could buy Fathomless Poison Haven, ignore all negative poison effects, and she would still have issues with imbibing non-essential drugs.
Why the hell not? Molly is a maker of wonders. The first person to benefit from those should be Molly. It's ridiculous to deny ourselves very clear benefits.
Why? As far as I can tell, she doesnt need them.
A bunch of the most famous crafters in myth are famous for the shit they made for other people, not for gearing themselves up.
Hephaestus, Vulcan...I think the only crafter who comes to mind who made his best stuff for himself was Sauron.

Molly gets to bond 2-3x Splendor/Prodigies IIRC, and the quality of reagents to make them arent exactly thick on the ground either. Id prefer to make it count when its necessary.
Some minor stuff is quality of life stuff, but thats largely enchanted gear, not the bullshit implied by Exalted Craft.
 
All of your examples have costs baked in. This doesn't.
The subject is not some hypothetical character in a spherical vacuum.

This is Molly Carpenter, the same girl who had traumatic personal issues with drugs less than a year ago. Issues that rippled out to family and friends. Whose close friend is still traumatized by the same issue. Whose family had issues with it, to the point where her mother had issues with magical coffee/energy drink.


I....just dont think y'all are grokking how much of a thing this is for her.
The QM doesnt dwell on it much, since people come to an Exalt quest to be awesome instead of watching the PC angsting out about their traumas. But that doesnt mean its not there, or that it doesnt shape and inform her attitudes.

But thats my opinion.
 
The subject is not some hypothetical character in a spherical vacuum.

This is Molly Carpenter, the same girl who had traumatic personal issues with drugs less than a year ago. Issues that rippled out to family and friends. Whose close friend is still traumatized by the same issue. Whose family had issues with it, to the point where her mother had issues with magical coffee/energy drink.


I....just dont think y'all are grokking how much of a thing this is for her.
The QM doesnt dwell on it much, since people come to an Exalt quest to be awesome instead of watching the PC angsting out about their traumas. But that doesnt mean its not there, or that it doesnt shape and inform her attitudes.

But thats my opinion.
I don't know if you just didn't read the second half of my comment and I don't particularly care if you were talking about mind control magic I would definitely agree but you're talking about was essentially multivitamins and lotion so no unless you're going to state that she just doesn't use shampoo or lotion or take vitamins these are not hard drugs these are not even soft drugs unless she just doesn't take fucking aspirin then it doesn't register as that.
 
Questing to slay what might be Ebon Dragon's Neverborn is definitely an epic quest. I am all for Lydia getting / rebuilding her kingdom, but we'll probably need a lot of steps before that one.

My point with Kakuri was that Molly's most powerful ability, and it's absurd, really, would be social, when in Yomi Wan. And we did sign up for trying to redeem Emma-O. We might be closer to being able to do something about it than I thought.
I'm not convinced it's directly his Neverborn. That's just too close to the surface given how shattered everything from that age is. If playing with the road was the same as picking at a dead primordial then a lot of the rest of the setting's relative ignorance wouldn't make sense.

My favorite theory right now is one of the options raised in the FAQ for ExWoD; they can't be more dead than they already were, but they can be more scattered. That they've been broken into shards of shards of shards and changed so much they're several transformations away from anything like what they were.

This isn't the age of legends, for it to hang together recognizable players from it needs to be even more dead than they ever were in the days of the exalted.

Setting that aside, we don't actually have to eat the whole thing at once; the other road has pocket hells on it, don't see why we couldn't make one ourselves and grow it as opportunities present themselves.
Oh, definitely. We should be releasing our recipes to our kingdom, as part of "earning our keep" as it was (we do service by MiSing all the Gurvel, but the more an average citizen benefits, the more the crown is respected). It's also important to note that with Alchemy 4 our understanding of malcoffee (and other 2 dot recipes) is good enough that we can make it without resource expenditure in the field. If we can pass on this understanding, mass production in our kingdom may begin. I am also planning on getting the inventory potion 4 dot recipe and sharing it with our kingdom for economic benefits.
I still think they should be a lot better at this than they appear to be right now. One of the benefits of Industrialization is that you can get ungodly amounts of complicated goods. A crafter under the current system is an artisan of the old school blacksmith variety. Compare the quality and quantity of what they can do to what goes into making an iPhone or a $200 pistol.

Maybe not uniformly to avoid breaking the game, but things like Malcoffee and Prima Metallum seem like they should be easy for them.
If she's going to spend her personal Prodigy/Splendor slots on something, they should both be worth the expense, and do stuff that isnt currently in her charmset.
My opinion.
As a crafter she doesn't need to keep a static kit, she can change what she's working with over time. One of the explicit benefits of Splendors is that they count as regents for any other splendor; you can break them down into points, add more resources, and make something else from them.

It's not just about what she can get, it's about what she has right now. We want ranged and AoE attacks among other things but can't have them all at once. Making things to cover gaps is an efficient use of our resources.

There's also synergy to consider; I've got some cheap builds floating around that would work very well to support our charms in ways our available options can't.

To the armor specifically; I view that as a good purchase because it helps our essence efficiency without breaking the game. We can afford to save on defenses for more significant threats and therefore play with our more active options.

It is a lever to change the world, but part of that is enhancing our general ability to act within it.

Not all of this needs to be expensive either. We can build up to 4 dot emanations for simple material resources and 5 dots by anchoring them to a 2 dot prodigy*. That's what I built that brain gun around; a dog level intelligence that does a specific job for us. I think this will be critical to handling higher level stuff and avoiding death by mote tap.



*This is 10 essence and 2 hours of work with no reagent cost for reference.

This isnt accurate.
There's significant numbers of both living humans and other shen in Yomi Wan, wittingly or not; Bakemono Bob is not particularly unique.
If you kill someone here hell keeps their soul and they get put back together one way or another, to an extent a mortal in the after life is like a spirit on Earth. They just reform in the same dimension instead of getting bounced home. That's how places like the sea of boiling oil and deep fry you for eternity.

Greater Akuma qualify as immortal for exactly this reason even. They lose their current shell and gain a new one in Yomi Wan. I'm not sure what Bakemono Bob's coworkers will look like when they get their shit together, but as I understand it they will eventually do so.

Disagree. For some theoretical Infernal with no hangups with regards to drug use, sure.
Not for Molly Carpenter.
Molly was involved with stuff like heroin, that is a completely different thing than performance enhancing substances. If her backstory was steroid related sure, but it's not like she's given a second thought to her speed point despite it being a temporary boost with negative side effects. Anything taken purely for pleasure or that had the trappings of the drugs she was involved with and I'd agree, but this isn't the same.





Disagree. There's nothing in optimizing the physical, social or mental specifics of a person's body that alchemy can do that a master of the Lore of Flesh and many/most of the memories of a Fallen angel cannot already do for themselves if they so choose. Especially when they live in a house with spirit of knowledge and noted alchemical expert Bob in the basement.

While I do agree in principle with regards to Tiffany and exchange of services, Molly is better served focusing on shit Tiffany cant already do for herself.
At the moment, the ledger is significantly in her favor anyway, assuming we are keeping score.
That's not my read of it:
• • • • • SHAPE FLESH
The demon is capable of transforming human flesh into any shape desired. Mortals or fallen can become monstrous creatures straight out of legend.
System: Spend one Faith point and roll Dexterity + Medicine in a resisted roll against the target's Willpower (difficulty 7). The player decides the form she wishes to create, along with its relevant physical capabilities, and the Storyteller determines the number of successes necessary to make the form a reality.
These successes can be generated as part of an extended roll over a period of days (one roll per day) as the demon "tinkers" with her creation. As a rule of thumb, assume that each success confers or removes one Physical Attribute point or physical feature. The effects of this evocation last for a number of days equal to the character's Faith score, or they can be made permanent by expending one temporary Willpower point. Devourers can use this evocation on themselves or others, as long as they can touch a subject.

• • • MANIPULATE FLESH
This evocation allows the demon to manipulate a subject's physical form (be it her own or another's), adding muscle mass, increasing bone density or expanding mental faculties.
System: Roll Intelligence + Medicine. Each success is a point that can be added to any of the subject's Physical or Mental Attributes

The lore explicitly works in terms of attribute types. There's potentially some flex for things that are physical features but not physical attributes, like appearance, but social ones are not otherwise on the list and if the 5 dot power meant to have them when the lower dot examples list all categories it should name it explicitly.

Molly has a recipe for something that makes it easier to raise Charisma and Manipulation, which have no reasonable analog to manipulate with flesh that isn't basically just appearance.
We dont know that.

We know Molly was arrested at a party and charged with possession. We know that some of her friends used drugs; Rosie specifically used heroin. We dont know what drugs her other friends used, or indeed what drugs (if any) Molly herself used.
The drug culture of American teenagers and college students is not just a recreational thing
Yes we do, or effectively so anyway. We know who she was running with and what context she was around them in. Sketchy raves aren't going to be a throwing around steroids nearly as much as say ecstasy and heroin.

Given her name I wouldn't be surprised if the former was the first more serious substance she was offered because whoever was selling the stuff found it funny.


Narrative reasons have at least as much importance as mechanical optimization in this sort of storytelling.
And I can see Molly hesitating about, say, nomming cyberdevils who never knew any better.
As opposed to, say, greater akuma, who went into servitude with eyes open.

Or indeed, other mechanically optimal choices that might have narrative or social effects depending on who her audience is.
Would she want to do this in range of Mikaboshi's sensors and recorders, for example?
Would freed spirits flee her?
Maybe, but we're in life or eternal damnation territory so I'm for anything that helps us survive.

We've used this trick in front of all of Summer already, the cat is out of the bag.
 
I'm not convinced it's directly his Neverborn. That's just too close to the surface given how shattered everything from that age is. If playing with the road was the same as picking at a dead primordial then a lot of the rest of the setting's relative ignorance wouldn't make sense.

My favorite theory right now is one of the options raised in the FAQ for ExWoD; they can't be more dead than they already were, but they can be more scattered. That they've been broken into shards of shards of shards and changed so much they're several transformations away from anything like what they were.

This isn't the age of legends, for it to hang together recognizable players from it needs to be even more dead than they ever were in the days of the exalted.

Setting that aside, we don't actually have to eat the whole thing at once; the other road has pocket hells on it, don't see why we couldn't make one ourselves and grow it as opportunities present themselves.
You are probably right, but we know that at least some Neverborn survive (yeah, this is a wrong term, I understand) in this setting, like Perfected Principle of Consumption. And yeah, we don't need to do it an once. I'd still prefer to first look a bit more into Arawn's legacy first, before diving into Exigent of Death power.
I still think they should be a lot better at this than they appear to be right now. One of the benefits of Industrialization is that you can get ungodly amounts of complicated goods. A crafter under the current system is an artisan of the old school blacksmith variety. Compare the quality and quantity of what they can do to what goes into making an iPhone or a $200 pistol.

Maybe not uniformly to avoid breaking the game, but things like Malcoffee and Prima Metallum seem like they should be easy for them.
I somewhat agree, yeah, even if I completely understand why it has to be this way at least for now. Molly should be providing new insights, I think.
 
Winning Vote
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on May 25, 2024 at 1:41 PM, finished with 71 posts and 19 votes.
 
Arc 12 Post 75: With Iron Purpose
With Iron Purpose

28th of January 2007 A.D.

Snapping out a hand you reach into the smoke for the dark shape... shapes of the warden. The helmet, head and about six feet of dangling viscera had detached from the body of the akuma as it was not trying to flee in penanggalen form frying off helm mounted thrusters, a truly grotesque facsimile of a rocket's second stage. For all the stuff you had seen these last six months if you weren't so worried about Nergui you'd be gagging. Wait... Thin threads of light almost too small to see with the naked eye, which probably means they are actually invisible to the usual naked eye, are working their way out from the chakra points of his body. "If we were really from Kakuri Wan we'd be in so much more trouble," you say halfway between impressed by the ingenuity of the device and half giggling as you imagine Mikaboshi's report when the he sees the last data packets from the drones.

Five seconds pass as Tiffany simply punches the heart out of the grounded Warden, sending him to Torpor. Then five seconds again... In a flash of pale golden chi the ancient Wan Kuei is free of the snare, falling into a crouch and looking all about the chamber though narrowed eyes. His steed, his other soul, wakes with him to give him what, for all the world, looks like an snort of equine annoyance, to which he lays a hand on its neck humming an unfamiliar melody that seems to calm it. Briefly you wonder what it would look like for one of the Wan Kuei to lose themselves to Shadow Soul or Fire Soul here of all places. Far better to never find out.

Akuma 1 is reduced to Torpor

Nergui Freed


"[Free-in-space, not-free-in-time. Molecules sing/vibrate to to hold/keep/stick shape of probability arrested/still]" metallic voice clatter like the keys of an old typewriter. "[Let us unbind non-primary connectors of power/meaning/place.]" Unlike the technician looking on bemusedly they are offering to gnaw at the ankles of their oppressor if there is naught else they can do.

10 Metal Elementals freed -> 15 Freed in Total

"[We must enter the Forge-Cathedral...]" you start

"[Build/Become Spiral!]" There is in those words a resolve like iron, not infinite and not unbreakable, but strong enough to do what needs be done to serve the moment

There are some things one could have gone all of one's life without knowing, one of those things you now find out is the sound of a dead man that is one tenth head nine tenths distended guts laughing inside his helmet. "[They wish to be servile shape again, part-of-the-all!]"

Tiffany grabs onto the dangling intestine and yanks hard. [Small Wondering: How What dimension an atom of soul-body unity?]

Sometimes it's hard to remember that she used to be a demon, not right now.

What do you do?

[] Allow the Elementals to form a stair where you stand, granting you unexpected access to the forge, surprising any forges therein while placing themselves in danger of being reabsorbed by the structure (Willpower roll of resist)

[] Refuse the offer, you are all going down the long way and then you are all getting out

[] Write in


OOC: For Shikome, many of which have no Yang Chi those time bombs are precisely as dangerous as you guys thought they were, but a more balanced Wan Kuei can roll their Yang Chi rating to get out, 10 success do it. The real danger was Nergui could have entered Fire or Shadow Soul from being chained in place like that. He had to roll his Dharma DC 8 to keep his cool. If you guys had not been paying attention it would have been up to Lydia and Lash to stop him.
 
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[X] Allow the Elementals to form a stair where you stand, granting you unexpected access to the forge, surprising any forges therein while placing themselves in danger of being reabsorbed by the structure (Willpower roll of resist)
 
[X] Refuse the offer, you are all going down the long way and then you are all getting out
 
[X] Refuse the offer, you are all going down the long way and then you are all getting out
 
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