- Location
- Germany
Lash doesn't have to admit the "fallen" part.
Pretending to be angels seems to be a successful gambit for some low-torment demons in DtF.
Though over there is no god and no active angels to defend their copyright...
Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
Pretending to be angels seems to be a successful gambit for some low-torment demons in DtF.
Though over there is no god and no active angels to defend their copyright...
Yeah, that's the rub, God in this universe is not missing in action. That is not a gambit Lash would be willing to try, since it is not even one that full on Fallen pull. Some of the Denarians have (briefly) impersonated lesser powers, but only insofar as it got them whatever they were looking for at the time. There were never any Nicklehead cults by deception, only the one that was frank about the infernalism. Lash isn't clear on why (as it was not relevant to her mission), but the fact that they avoid crossing that line makes her think she really shouldn't, much less pretend to be an angel.
Also the angel she would be best at impersonating is Lasciel and that sounds like a whole other kind of bad idea.
To be fair she can't hate her more.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
Brand seems like the correct term.
I would expect that from a free will perspective making it so that correct information is freely available is the play.
- Location
- washington
Hey Hey God still probably exists they just went out to get milk!
No, but she can notice her more.
She is in a coin under the floor. Whats she going to do, shine more aggressively.🤣🤣
Harry delivered that coin to the church once he no longer had Lash in his head.
Disagree.
Extended human habitation in space counts in my opinion.
A diving bell is a vehicle, not a habitation; its closest space equivalent would be something like the Space Shuttle.
Those are not remotely comparable.
For all his delusions of grandeur, Mr Musk's wealth is intrinsically linked to the valuations of external actors and the efforts of other people.
First Age Solar Exalted OWNED populations.
They created new species of sapients for personal convenience; they could could modify your afterlife, whether its tagging you to be reincarnated as a rich, happy person or to be forged into soulsteel.
An Essence 4, Lore 5 Solar with Wyld Shaping Technique + Wyld Cauldron Technology could literally expand Creation on his own and have it integrated into the Loom of Fate.
This is in part how the Solars expanded Creation in the books.
We're in the period of history where a mature Solar who was actually interested in the subject could have put together his own personal resources to start on a mega project.
Like I pointed out up top, Brilliant Shattered Ice built Tzatli herself of her own resources as a showpiece.
The First Age was fucking crazy.
Then I dont understand how you come to your conclusion.
There is nothing quite like having bandits knock on your door at 2AM in a Third World country because someone saw you drive in a new car several days before. Or, to use a US example, getting mugged for your fancy shoes in the wrong part of town.
No its not.
We wouldnt be talking about providing them backup or keeping it secret if it was.
Your prerogative, I guess.
Redeeming the hosts fucks up the Fallen possessing them by derailing their plans.
The point is that these guys were considered to be especially destabilizing, enough to get 3x angels put on permanent "fuck them up" duty. Unlike the Yama Kings et al.
Most of the other evil entities have significant weaknesses which can be exploited.
No need for angelic intervention against someone vulnerable to sunlight, or holy water. Yama Kings are explicitly vulnerable to being killed if they step outside their Hell, and even inside their Hells they are hardly untouchable as Yen Lo will tell you.
Its more that most of their operations do not appear to happen in North America, which do remember is only about 5% of the world's population. At least thats my impression.
Ivy certainly made it clear in Small Favor that Lartessa, for example, has been a very busy person in the 20th century.
We see the Denarians get explicit help from Lucy Down Under in Small Favor to contain the Archive.
I suspect that if they can ask Lucifer himself for aid, they can tap a smorgasbord of lesser infernal resources.
How limited they are is unknown.
We dont actually see how they operate day to day, just how they operate when they come to Chicago to throw down with Harry Dresden. I would caution against assuming most of their work is brute stuff.
Three swordsmen carrying Angels in their swords.
Not really.
Between gear and shields, Dresden's significantly tankier than they are. And certainly a lot killier.
An unfair comparison, of course; hes top 50 in magical brute force, and was trained by people with pretty good pedigrees.
Possession? Yes.
But its not a protection against getting Authority'd; the only Shih defence there is to that is just sheer Willpower. Or maybe getting talismans from actual magic workers.
Their being unorganized is explicitly part of their lore.
The lore also says that training time for a Shih apprentice is 15-20 years, often from childhood.
The first Shih, Yi?
Was explicitly a wizard according to the Demon Hunter X source book page 22.
He apparently didnt know it, but he was.
Dresden is repeatedly characterized at almost the same rate as knowing less about the setting than he assumes.
I have the book beside me, and the Bridges appear to be clear about when something has enhanced effects against vampires, and even distinguishes between Kuejin and Kindred. For example:
Rebels dont need to be particularly successful to attract official oppobrium.
A lot of the time, just their existence attracts retribution. In this case, the emergence of the Shih coincided with other political upheavals in China at the time between the Chou and the Shang; I'd post citations, but my copy of the Demon Hunter sourcebook has issues.
The Celestial Army got nuked 200 years after they and their allies won.
Who nuked them is unknown and unstated.
Could have been Yama Kings, could have been shen.
Most of the shih believe it was the Yama Kings and Kuejin working together.
The books just say the mountains of Kun-Lun exploded and the Celestial Army was wiped off the face of the Earth.
And yet, economics still mattered. And, ok, let's use Kim Jong Un as an example instead.
You always have a weapon, you increase your fortification, you join with the gangs and you pay protection money. You are either a victim, or you are an oppressor (or enjoy an oppressor's favor). Personally, I grew up a victim. That's not an option for shih - they are already in conflict with wan kuei.
No, it's exactly like that. Because it's not enough to buy someone a weapon. You also need to provide them backup in case and for when overwhelming crushing force is sent against them.
[X] Yog
BoredMan
Maintaining the Agenda is our top priority
I agree but again the Yama Kings don't exist in canon so the White God wouldn't have needed to. It could be differ here and we just aren't aware. It's not like we know what every angel is doing.
BoredMan
Maintaining the Agenda is our top priority
Can ya'll explain to me why you feel the need to make an "attendant" for the baby? Is there an actual reason I'm not seeing here that can't be applied to any of Molly's human friends we haven't bothered to use limited resources on even after they got kidnapped by a skinwalker or is it just a "for fun" thing?
Last edited:
COMMENTARY
She's 18. 19 now, I think
I cant imagine why the doctor would perform an elective CS on a teenager. Especially since it makes any future pregnancies higher risk.
I dont think Lydia has met Rosie, has she?
Huh.
Oh, Im expecting that this is where and how Bonea happens in this timeline.Alternatively, we'll get to see the look on Dresden's face when it's revealed he still has it.
I mean they did have a daughter together born of Lash sacrificing her life to save his out of selfless love in what would have been the not so distant future.
Gonna be hilarious for both Harry and Lash to find out that its possible.
Its a waste.
The baby cant use the flute, and wont be able to use it for at least five years, if not a decade.
Keep it for someone who might actually need it and can use it.
Right now, Im leaning towards just going shopping in Sanctuary and putting together a newborn's pack.
Practical, not fancy.
I genuinely dont like the implications of giving a person as a gift to a newborn child.
And as for nannies, you almost certainly want a mortal member of society to socialize them to human society.
If we think there's a need for elevated security, we can use Inner Devil Unchained and apply the treatment to a dog or two as home guards. But that should be a (near)future thing, not something that needs to be done right now.
The economics in question were about shit like additional Essence regeneration from organized prayer cults and the like.
It wasnt about man hours, or rare materials, or any of the things that such mega projects would have entailed.
This was the height of the First Age, when you could create resources and even people ex-nihilo.
For the Solar Deliberative, it was essentially a post-scarcity utopia.
And even for the vast majority of the mortal population, standards of living were well north of modern First World standards.
You need to refresh your memory of Demon Hunter X chapter 1 again.
The Shih arent at war with the Wan Kuei; their job/task/duty is to go after shen, whether Wan Kuei/Kuejin, spirits or ghosts, that are "disruptive to the natural order." They leave most Wan Kuei alone because they are part of the natural order, and there is a certain level of contacts wherein the Wan Kuei may offer aid or cooperation.
People actually at war? The Fellowship of St Giles.
If your proposed gift actively increases the numbers and weight class of hostiles that might be interested in someone, its a bad gift. If it now makes them reliant on your protection when before they could manage, its a bad gift.
If it pulls down your personal enemies on the person(s)you gave a gift, its a bad gift.
Like I pointed out before, just the Spark of Life Merit makes the users obvious to supernatural senses.
Any shih cant hide anymore from supernaturals.
Nevermind the fact that vampires and similar entities now find them especially appetising.
This is, I repeat, not an argument against giving them aid.
Its not even an argument against giving them a low-level splendor.
What its an argument against is giving them shit thats valuable enough to pull aggro.
I would assume that in canon, they would be along the lines of the old gods that the White God told to back the fuck down or accept mortality.
Butcher has spent no time with the East in focus, so we have no information.
You want to have a caretaker as soon as possible, as I understand it, so the sleep cycles can be managed.
Elevated security is a completely different thing, and uplifted dogs are a terrible idea for an urban dweller - a shapeshifting animal splendor would be a better option. Something like this:
The Splendor takes the form of something that is evocative of the fantastic. It might be a child's
toy, a brightly-decorated banner, a monster or carnival mask, or a treasure chest. It might be a
kaleidoscope, or a bundle of bright balloons. This Element defines the Splendor's physical form
and gives it a character, and that character is aligned with the power of the Dreaming. Other
Elements may draw upon this fact.
The Splendor stands out as a powerful work of magic when seen with chimerical eyes or mystic
scrutiny, but it seems nigh-impossible to credit it with any specific significance if observed with
purely mundane senses. Even when presented with compelling evidence that there's something
weird about the object, anyone who hasn't made a magical survey of the Splendor must make a
Willpower roll against difficulty (4 + Splendor's rating) to accept such a conclusion.
As an Adornment, it raises the difficulty to affect the user with hostile works of Glamour by one.
As the basis for a Fascination, it may have one minor impossible feature such as floating in
defiance of gravity, reflecting people's true selves when looked into, or aging backwards in time.
toy, a brightly-decorated banner, a monster or carnival mask, or a treasure chest. It might be a
kaleidoscope, or a bundle of bright balloons. This Element defines the Splendor's physical form
and gives it a character, and that character is aligned with the power of the Dreaming. Other
Elements may draw upon this fact.
The Splendor stands out as a powerful work of magic when seen with chimerical eyes or mystic
scrutiny, but it seems nigh-impossible to credit it with any specific significance if observed with
purely mundane senses. Even when presented with compelling evidence that there's something
weird about the object, anyone who hasn't made a magical survey of the Splendor must make a
Willpower roll against difficulty (4 + Splendor's rating) to accept such a conclusion.
As an Adornment, it raises the difficulty to affect the user with hostile works of Glamour by one.
As the basis for a Fascination, it may have one minor impossible feature such as floating in
defiance of gravity, reflecting people's true selves when looked into, or aging backwards in time.
The Splendor takes the form of something that is primitive, crude, bestial, or a beast. Items tend
to be natural objects like rocks and branches, or are crudely-worked, or are decorated with beast-
motifs. More often, the Splendor is literally a living animal. This Element defines the Splendor's
physical form and gives it a character, and that character is aligned with the feral, primitive, and
bestial. Other Elements may draw upon this fact.
While animal-form Splendors are never hostile to their owner, they do not obey that individual as
a servant. Instead they will follow their normal instincts and habits, or else act according to some
particular pattern of behavior established when the Splendor is designed. If the Splendor is an
Adornment, it may be designed so that its blessings benefit the animal rather than the Exalt.
Taking a second characteristic Form makes it possible for an Adornment to take the shape of
both a beast and an item used by its owner, and to give its benefits to both of them.
to be natural objects like rocks and branches, or are crudely-worked, or are decorated with beast-
motifs. More often, the Splendor is literally a living animal. This Element defines the Splendor's
physical form and gives it a character, and that character is aligned with the feral, primitive, and
bestial. Other Elements may draw upon this fact.
While animal-form Splendors are never hostile to their owner, they do not obey that individual as
a servant. Instead they will follow their normal instincts and habits, or else act according to some
particular pattern of behavior established when the Splendor is designed. If the Splendor is an
Adornment, it may be designed so that its blessings benefit the animal rather than the Exalt.
Taking a second characteristic Form makes it possible for an Adornment to take the shape of
both a beast and an item used by its owner, and to give its benefits to both of them.
The Splendor grants the gift of healing to those it affects. Roll Intelligence + Medicine against
difficulty (10 – Splendor's rating). The Splendor may heal that many levels of bashing or lethal
damage in each person granted the Blessing of Health, up to a maximum of (Splendor's rating)
levels healed. Lethal damage is healed first, if present.
As an Adornment, the user must spend a point of Willpower to gain the Blessing of Health, and
may take advantage of this Element no more than (Splendor's rating) times per story.
As a Fascination, an individual may only be granted the Blessing of Health once per story.
difficulty (10 – Splendor's rating). The Splendor may heal that many levels of bashing or lethal
damage in each person granted the Blessing of Health, up to a maximum of (Splendor's rating)
levels healed. Lethal damage is healed first, if present.
As an Adornment, the user must spend a point of Willpower to gain the Blessing of Health, and
may take advantage of this Element no more than (Splendor's rating) times per story.
As a Fascination, an individual may only be granted the Blessing of Health once per story.
The Splendor's power is flawed, and its curses and blessings cannot maintain their hold for long.
Select one Element of the Splendor whose effects last for a limited time. That Element's
maximum duration is decreased by one category (from one month to one week, one week to to
one day, and so on). If the duration is already "one day," the Element is reduced to one hour.
Taking this Element grants one additional Element point, which must be spent on a Mystic
Element.
Select one Element of the Splendor whose effects last for a limited time. That Element's
maximum duration is decreased by one category (from one month to one week, one week to to
one day, and so on). If the duration is already "one day," the Element is reduced to one hour.
Taking this Element grants one additional Element point, which must be spent on a Mystic
Element.
The Splendor is shrouded in a psychic ward that makes it unthinkable to even consider harming
it in any way. Anyone attempting to do so must succeed at a Willpower roll against difficulty (4
+ Splendor's rating) and then spend a Willpower point on each turn in which they attempt to do
harm to the Splendor.
it in any way. Anyone attempting to do so must succeed at a Willpower roll against difficulty (4
+ Splendor's rating) and then spend a Willpower point on each turn in which they attempt to do
harm to the Splendor.
This Element can only be part of a Fascination.
The Splendor creates environmental hazards according to the character of its Form Elements,
such as Form of Crackling Fire or Form of Ash and Dust. The nature of the created hazards vary
accordingly:
• Dream produces hazards such as enchantment, compulsion, or chimera. They either impose a
penalty of –3 dice on all actions due to hallucinogenic distraction, or require proper actions taken
at difficulty (4 + Splendor's rating) to avoid being enchanted (and thus brought into chimerical
reality) or compelled to do a thing while in the presence of the Splendor. If the Splendor
summons hostile chimera, they are weak creatures and only up to (Splendor rating) can be
attracted per scene.
• Feral generally produces animal attacks, generating up to the Splendor's rating in swarms or
beasts per scene.
The Splendor creates environmental hazards according to the character of its Form Elements,
such as Form of Crackling Fire or Form of Ash and Dust. The nature of the created hazards vary
accordingly:
• Dream produces hazards such as enchantment, compulsion, or chimera. They either impose a
penalty of –3 dice on all actions due to hallucinogenic distraction, or require proper actions taken
at difficulty (4 + Splendor's rating) to avoid being enchanted (and thus brought into chimerical
reality) or compelled to do a thing while in the presence of the Splendor. If the Splendor
summons hostile chimera, they are weak creatures and only up to (Splendor rating) can be
attracted per scene.
• Feral generally produces animal attacks, generating up to the Splendor's rating in swarms or
beasts per scene.
Attributes: Strength 5-7 (7 for primary bear, 5 for summoned copies), Dexterity 2,
Stamina 5-7
Abilities: Alertness 3, Brawl 3, Intimidation 2, Stealth 1
Willpower: 4
Health Levels: OK x 3, -1 x 3, -3, -5, Incapacitated
Armor Rating: 1
Attacks: Claw for 7 to 9 dice; bite for 5 dice
Move: 5/20
Legendary Powers: Acute Smell (3), Armor (1), Bond-
Sharing (4), Enhancement, Healing Lick (3), Hibernation,
Immunity (15; poisons, death), Shapechanger (3), Unaging
Stamina 5-7
Abilities: Alertness 3, Brawl 3, Intimidation 2, Stealth 1
Willpower: 4
Health Levels: OK x 3, -1 x 3, -3, -5, Incapacitated
Armor Rating: 1
Attacks: Claw for 7 to 9 dice; bite for 5 dice
Move: 5/20
Legendary Powers: Acute Smell (3), Armor (1), Bond-
Sharing (4), Enhancement, Healing Lick (3), Hibernation,
Immunity (15; poisons, death), Shapechanger (3), Unaging
And yet, economics still mattered. Economics doesn't just disappear once you past certain absolute line of opulence. Exalts on each individual basis were capable of stuff we would consider wonders, but they couldn't accomplish everything each of them conceived without both the agreement (or at least non-interference) of others, and, for their larger projects, their help. At least not in the practical timeframe.
Not if the benefits provided by it outweighs the downsides.
They are already reliant on our protection against the forces you describe. This would only get them less reliant on us by making them more powerful. You say that currently such forces have no reason to go after them. That's false. Such a danger already exists.
1)We make enough malcoffee to add Rosie to our clientele. Sleep schedules shouldnt be a problem.
Remember, we're offering help, not taking over the process.
And her learning how to handle this will help if she has future kids as well.
2)Thats not actually true.
65 million US households own a dog; that's roughly 50% of US households.
Dogs are the most popular pet in the US, followed by cats.
I mean, Dresden has Mouse and Mister, and he's an urban dweller.
VOTE
[X] Something mundane
-[X]Newborn care package from Sanctuary
-[X]Healing potions for Rosie
New children are rare enough in Sanctuary that they are regarded as extra special.
So basically go shopping and put together a curated package
Save the extra magic stuff for when its necessary
Last edited:
BoredMan
Maintaining the Agenda is our top priority
Guys, we have limited resources. We should use what we have for what we actually need.
Molly doesn't need this, and Amanda doesn't either. It seems some people want to burn the resources just because- if people start voting like this we are going to end up using AP to go on, KillingSpreeMaterialRuns just because we always use what we have unecessarily whenever the opportunity arrives and not when we need too.
Molly doesn't need this, and Amanda doesn't either. It seems some people want to burn the resources just because- if people start voting like this we are going to end up using AP to go on, KillingSpreeMaterialRuns just because we always use what we have unecessarily whenever the opportunity arrives and not when we need too.
That's a very loose excuse. There are mundane ways of going about that with less hassle too.
Within a house, yes. If security within the place of residence is required, than a household spirit is far superior. Bane, the simplest godling we could possibly make, is capable of holding off a naagloshii within its own territory. We can do far better. And outside of one's residence, uplifted dogs are terrible for security because they are barred from large parts of human society and cannot meaningfully interact with it.
I wonder, could we parody an exaltation?
To be clear, I don't mean anything like the power or significance of one, just a loose sketch of the form.
We can use an arcana as the basis for transformation in the peach tree build, but what about something more personal? Look at the form of primal nature:
Make an almost-Usum (perhaps our hell's equivalent of a cat?) which is also an arcana carrying its blessings to her.
Make it a 5 dot phantasm* of an animal. 6 arcana features; superior body, superior mind, superior poise, 2x divine abilities**(exalted style favored) and exalted healing.
In terms of merits there's a lot we could do; lucky, guardian Angel, that sort of thing.
My inclination would be 7 ability aptitudes or the 5 dot innate magic merit which gives the owner some supernatural ability equivalent to 3 dots in a vampire discipline and a 6 dot conditional magic merit paid for with the last 2 points and a 4 dot conditional magic flaw.
The goal of the conditions to be a bonus to any supernatural ability she uses targeting herself is buffed, but anything targeting others directly is weakened***.
This is already a lot, so I wouldn't give any additional splendor abilities. 3 dots for primal nature, moonlight, hero's shadow, and transformation.
The end result is a demon-cat familiar with a stat line to be determined**** that shifts into a form appropriate object, like a hairband that looks almost like a crown. It can't speak, but it would be intelligent and telepathically communicate with the bearer.
Who'd have inhuman attribute potential in everything, exalted healing, 2 favored abilities, and either an absurd number of passive difficulty adjusters or whatever magic personal magic we can justify for 11 total merit dots.
The one thing that annoys me here is that making a peach tree of immortality style setup is technically cheaper than making an item for just one person who can't attune it. Producing an army like this is bullshit that should probably be banned, but creating something for one person could be neat.
If we wanted to make something that effectively becomes a permanent part of the owner's existence that makes them better instead of printing out the improvements on anyone who touches it or a temporary thing that needs renewed periodically we'd have to move to a 4 dot item.
I'm aware that this would be wasteful at quest time scales, I just got on the idea this morning because the narrative feels compelling. A blessing in the form of what Molly herself was given, even if the comparison is laughable by any reasonable metric.
* I'm doing this for crafting reasons, but depending on how kind DP is this could also give her the native ability to soak lethal. Ideally it'd also leave her human and stick the demon traits to the mediating arcana.
** I could also see the argument for dropping a superior attribute set for an additional favored ability because they're broken, but she doesn't have excellency so the extra dice in three attributes is probably more valuable than favoring one more ability.
*** Or perhaps to buy a more powerful innate magic at the expense of eating a debuff when not somehow using it while doing magic. I don't really want to use the merit points anywhere else to keep the theme focused and the power bloat under control.
Part of that is the exact phrasing of that condition. Shooting fire balls? Nerf bat. Enhancing firearm with fortune magic and shooting grenades? Buffed. Crafting? Neither, because other people aren't involved.
**** I'd argue that in this case that it should be able to have a different statline and flaws/merits as long as it also pays for the complete set of all features and we don't use the both benefits option of primal nature. Much like Usum, the arcana would bear power it couldn't use in the form of the subset of features reserved by the transformation root element.
The goal being to avoid double dipping and so that we can give the arcana loyalty programming with a 3 dot geas + code of honor. That and hit it with the mute arcana flaw + telepathic arcana feature so that it can talk while inanimate.
To quote Dril
When we are at the point that individual Solars can afford to build flying cities with the population of RL Chicago as personal vanity projects, and other Solars would engage in large scale geomancy and write off tens of millions of civilians as collateral to make a wargame "realistic"?
Economics is clearly not an impediment to megaprojects.
There's the rub, isnt it?
Molly's personal enemies currently(that number may rise) include the Yama King Emma-O, the Order of the Blackened Denarius, Nemesis and all the Outsiders in Creation.
Of the three aforementioned entities, only Emma-O has had previous reason to be interested in the Shih.
That changes if Molly's hand starts being seen there as a major factor.
Furthermore, significant magical artifacts are valuable to everyone, and we have seen bad guys turn them to purposes other than what they were meant for. Nemesis and friends turned the Athame into an Outsider infection vector for Winter, and the Denarians turned the Shroud of Turin into a focus for killing Chicago.
None of them were meant for those, yet they were turned to those purposes anyway.
No they arent.
The Shih predate Molly by hundreds, or thousands of years; their core book says they were founded 3000 years ago in World of Darkness canon. They didnt require Molly to keep them alive then.
Those forces largely left them alone prior to our showing up.
1) We can both ward a house AND provide an uplifted animal, but until we move Rosie into a permanent home, the first is not possible. And I cant speak for societies outside the United States, but inside the US specifically which is where Rosie lives, the assertion that dogs are barred from large parts of society is simply not true.
2) Spirits in the Dresden Files have restrictions that material entities do not.
A spirit cannot cross a threshold uninvited, for example(unless they are Fae and follow specific rules). They can be banished by the knowledgeable. At least some of them are vulnerable to damage by mundane sunlight.
There's a reason why summoned demons take a material form.
Last edited: