Molly is just going to make it out of raw Essence, no reason to hurt animals over something Molly can make herself... yes that is somewhat terrifying for her personally, she will deal with that bridge when she gets to it.
Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
Molly is just going to make it out of raw Essence, no reason to hurt animals over something Molly can make herself... yes that is somewhat terrifying for her personally, she will deal with that bridge when she gets to it.
VOTE
[X]Yog
As has been pointed out?
Just on purely pragmatic terms, leaving Lash on the shelf is actively more dangerous to her, to us and everyone else than giving her a body. She has a strong incentive to defend her own autonomy, and if she can act it makes her a harder target.
Last Station is not secure enough to hold against the sort of people who would try to lay their hands on the Shadow of a Fallen.
And while Dresden's apartment and wards are commanded by Mouse? Mouse has his limits. For example, he cant do shit if someone firebombs the building to burn them out and then attacks and steals the vessel she is in the confusion.
Usum outright told us that he was tortured for information when in captivity in the Hells, and Usum has less actionable information than Lash does. We really should avoid putting Lash in the same situation.
Avoids future problems.
Which should at an original DC of 8, should average (0.8*22)=17.6 successes.
I think.
And Fabrication is rolling Dexterity 4 + Craft 4(Mechanics) + Without Honor 2 + Stunt 2 = 20 dice at -4DC(BSM + CCC)
Which at an original DC of 9, should average (0.7*20)= 14 successes
That appears to suggest we will need an average of 3AP to do this in a month.
4 AP to be safe, if we are supposed to get it done by Christmas.
Or at least before New Year.
Dresden is not her parent or sibling so no bloodlines there.
Something like that would bounce of Lasciel, and Molly has a Shaping Defense.
And the better she can defend herself, or survive, against attempts at exploitation.
How well do you expect an adult woman to react to those kinds of restraints?
Especially one with Lash's history?
Seriously, think on how the voter base reacted to Charity trying to impose conditions on Molly, and Molly is her kid.
[X]Yog
As has been pointed out?
Just on purely pragmatic terms, leaving Lash on the shelf is actively more dangerous to her, to us and everyone else than giving her a body. She has a strong incentive to defend her own autonomy, and if she can act it makes her a harder target.
Last Station is not secure enough to hold against the sort of people who would try to lay their hands on the Shadow of a Fallen.
And while Dresden's apartment and wards are commanded by Mouse? Mouse has his limits. For example, he cant do shit if someone firebombs the building to burn them out and then attacks and steals the vessel she is in the confusion.
Usum outright told us that he was tortured for information when in captivity in the Hells, and Usum has less actionable information than Lash does. We really should avoid putting Lash in the same situation.
Avoids future problems.
I've kinda assumed that Molly being Occult 5 means she speaks the Old Realm equivalent of Ecclesiastical Latin.
Design is rolling Intelligence 4 + Occult 5 + Excellency 9 + Without Honor 2 + Stunt 2 = 22 dice at -4DC(BSM + CCC)
Which should at an original DC of 8, should average (0.8*22)=17.6 successes.
I think.
And Fabrication is rolling Dexterity 4 + Craft 4(Mechanics) + Without Honor 2 + Stunt 2 = 20 dice at -4DC(BSM + CCC)
Which at an original DC of 9, should average (0.7*20)= 14 successes
That appears to suggest we will need an average of 3AP to do this in a month.
4 AP to be safe, if we are supposed to get it done by Christmas.
Or at least before New Year.
Noone.
Dresden is not her parent or sibling so no bloodlines there.
Something like that would bounce of Lasciel, and Molly has a Shaping Defense.
Because the better the body, the higher the base she is starting from.
And the better she can defend herself, or survive, against attempts at exploitation.
Molly's reaction to her mother trying to control her friendships had her moving out of the house when she was still 16/17.
How well do you expect an adult woman to react to those kinds of restraints?
Especially one with Lash's history?
Seriously, think on how the voter base reacted to Charity trying to impose conditions on Molly, and Molly is her kid.
Old Realm is not in the domain of what usually goes in Occult, it is a unique revelation of ages long past. Ordinary humans with a lot of effort and talent can gain Occult 5.
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
[X]Yog
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Uh, @DragonParadox , I think you got those mixed up. The rules you quoted said that design is (rating x 3) successes and crafting is (rating x 4) successes, so it should be the other way around.
...Which, with @uju32 's estimates on our average rolls, means that it should only take 1 design roll and 2 crafting rolls on average to complete the whole thing. And since you said that TTC lets us do the actual building of stuff at double speed, and each roll is 1 AP before that boost, we should hopefully be able to finish the entire thing in 2 AP.
...Assuming I got my math right. I usually get my math right, but I might be missing something from the system.
Right I did indeed get those mixed up, thanks for catching that now.
Good night guys, see you tomorrow with offering Faustian Pacts to aspects of Fallen Angels
We can enhance fabricaton by using shintai (+4 dexterity), and design too (-1 DC if we are designing the body incorporating arts and materials from our kingdom) and there are probably at least 1 dot potions / talismans of "enhance dexterity / craft" in our kingdom that we could requisition. @DragonParadox does our kingdom have access to basic dice adder potions / amulets? Enchantment 1 is supposed to be able to grant that.
But yes, 3 AP would probably be needed (1 base AP + 2 malcoffee AP). If we are doing design and fabrication in our kingdom, we should probably involve magesmiths / artificiers of said kingdom. They are unlikely to be able to help, but they might be able to learn something / observe something.
I am fairly sure that the ritual is not just about blood - otherwise how would it have worked on the Red Court itself? They don't actually all share genetics. Whether it would bounce of Lasciel is arguable and depends on how much of it is Ancient Sorcery (because in the mixed setting it's way too much like that Sidereal charm, the name of which I forget). But even if it would, it might also strike all shadows of all fallen currently active. This is just a thought experiment, though.
There's a whole charm we would need to buy in order to learn Old Realm, so yeah, Occult 5 is nowhere near enough.
Huh, forgot about that (the doubling of craft speed for actual manufacturing. still not sure why it's only doubling, but ok).
Shintai is a scenelong activation, so it doesnt last long enough to use on Earth.
And I assume we'll be doing most of this work on Earth, because we are out of contact while in the Brass Courts, which is NOT a good thing after we've aggro'd a Fallen, a buncha Outsiders, and the Red Court in quick succession.
Besides, thematically, better to do the work on Earth than in our Hell.
She's not a citizen of our Hell.
Its about blood.
It worked on the Red Court because all of them are apparently blood-family; the Red King made them all.
It would bounce of Lasciel because she is Fallen; unbound, she would be off the WoD spirit scale, like the other angels.
Mab is upper-tier Incarna, and you cant even kill her other than on Halloween, at the Stone Table or with some bespoke superweapon. Lasciel wont be scratched. She'd be pissed though.
The blood curse had nothing to do with Ancient Sorcery.
Should be x10, I think; we're making a mechanical work, so the full bonus should apply.
Even the lesser bonus would still be x5.
I'm sceptical that it's possible for CCC to apply in our Kingdom, since we can always return to Earth. Also, if each AP is a week, we can't spend enough time there to do it all at once.
Does oversuccess mean anything here? We're talking above making 15+ success rolls at every step, and potentially putting 28-30 successes or so against a 20 success requirement.
The answer to the first question is a bomb collar set to activate if we leave the Courts before finishing the task (or before a safe word is used). The answer to the second is TTC, which should enhance at the very least the rate of manufacturing (by a factor of 5-10 if we go by the charm text, and by a factor of 2 according to the current ruling).
1)Like I said, being incommunicado in our kingdom for any length of time is unacceptable; we've aggro'd too many people in too short a time to leave Chicago and our people unmonitored.
Thats how you come back to find everything is on fire.
2) As has also been pointed out, shintai and CCC are incompatible with each other.
We exert too much control over our environment for a bomb collar or a locked door to be an issue.
And the size of device necessary to be an actual threat to shintai mode Molly with Without Honor and Boiling Sea Mastery will wreck everything around her.
Including the project you are working on, and the workshop itself, and any people.
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That charm should really be renamed Bond Devastating Stance Mastery or something at this point, given how we use it.
The bomb thing should still work. It's not like we couldn't choose to tank or disable the explosion any number of ways in the outside world.
The project is done in slices over the time span called for in the roll. We can probably pop in for a few hours of work and then leave to check on things before coming back out. If we can't spend even that much time inside then we are barely going to be able to use it
Edit: messed up my own acronym joke.
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Dont think it works mechanically, never mind narratively.
In Shintai, she goes from 4 Soak to 9 Soak(+1 Stamina, +4 Demon Armor), with Without Honor raising that to 11 Soak, and BSM reducing soak DC from 5 to 4. You need a much bigger bomb at a minimum to even begin to pose a threat, and thats in the danger to your project and everyone around you territory.
Given Molly's demonstrated Heterodyne tendencies when she gets engrossed in a project?
I dont think that works narratively.
Cuffing our feet together strongly enough that it'd require us to spend a turn busting out if attacked while wearing it is valid. It doesn't need to be able to kill us, just inconvenience us.
It hasn't come up when she's making potions, the only time it's been an issue was with that huge roll on the Last Station.
What you're describing is a pretty substantial flaw that shuts off our ability to interact with the pause project rules and demonstrably messes with our ability to use some of our most expensive abilities.
That's the sort of thing that should be a mechanical flaw we at least get points for, not something we just pick up from the narrative because it's entertaining.
I doubt it.
If it was, we wouldnt be using a bombed up room when we need to establish those working conditions .
Molly doesnt just enjoy the frisson of high explosives in close proximity as far as I know.
1) Her making potions is a comparatively short process, on the order of an hour or two IIRC.
Not an issue.
It was very much an issue with both Odin's warmachines and when we were installing the SUTRA Iris in Last Station
2)Disagree.
This would not be an issue if we werent using CCC for that -3DC; we'd just stop and leave at will. With the use of externally measured milestones to meet, the picture and flexibility changes.
We want to leverage the benefits of using CCC, a 1-dot charm, in a situation it issnt designed for.
Tradeoffs.
3)It also bears remembering we were out of contact with Chicago for maybe an hour and half when Broken Seeker made his move against our friends. A six hour shift of work is a very long time, comparatively speaking, and apparently Molly opening gates to the Brass Courts might be quick, but it is not a quiet or subtle process.
Not if the wizards could hear us do it the first time.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
No one seems to be against us using HellScry Charka or Naked Wicked Souls on Lash and it doesn't cost us anything, but for some weird reason we aren't doing it.
BoredMan
Maintaining the Agenda is our top priority
The first time it happened an entire world was also created. Your probably right though.
You scare me sometimes.
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
[X] Actually I have a better solution than that mirror...
-[X] Empathy and Occult excellencies
-[x] HellScry Charka and Naked Wicked Souls.
-[X] Offer a 5 dot arcana body
-[X] STUNT: "I said you both would be fine, and I meant it. And part of fine is giving you tools to defend yourself against the fallen. So, we are not done. This is just a temporary vessel, not another prison. Lash, I am going to build you a body."
There some kind of essence conservation issue with a plan like this?
-[X] Empathy and Occult excellencies
-[x] HellScry Charka and Naked Wicked Souls.
-[X] Offer a 5 dot arcana body
-[X] STUNT: "I said you both would be fine, and I meant it. And part of fine is giving you tools to defend yourself against the fallen. So, we are not done. This is just a temporary vessel, not another prison. Lash, I am going to build you a body."
There some kind of essence conservation issue with a plan like this?
I think it's just a matter of the bandwagoning already happening for the vote, which makes it hard to alter now.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
I am aware of the reason. I still find it frustrating.
On my end, while it may not cost us anything, I see it as a matter of trust, Lash has had two masters before her whom bound her in chains, and each time she betrayed them for it, in this case while it may hurt if she betrays us, I am willing to extend the hand of trust, and thus do not feel it necessary to use any of those Charms.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
It's not any kind of chain at all. It's just knowledge. She has been far more invasive with Harry.
BoredMan
Maintaining the Agenda is our top priority
[X] Actually I have a better solution than that mirror...
-[X] Empathy and Occult excellencies
-[x] HellScry Charka and Naked Wicked Souls.
-[X] Offer a 5 dot arcana body
-[X] STUNT: "I said you both would be fine, and I meant it. And part of fine is giving you tools to defend yourself against the fallen. So, we are not done. This is just a temporary vessel, not another prison. Lash, I am going to build you a body."
-[X] Empathy and Occult excellencies
-[x] HellScry Charka and Naked Wicked Souls.
-[X] Offer a 5 dot arcana body
-[X] STUNT: "I said you both would be fine, and I meant it. And part of fine is giving you tools to defend yourself against the fallen. So, we are not done. This is just a temporary vessel, not another prison. Lash, I am going to build you a body."