Nope, not in the slightest. Same principle as with the Alphas changing shape, you cannot violate the sanctity of your own mind and/or body. You can mess up if you do not know what you are doing, but that is not a Law issue, it is a skill issue.
I mean, unless you want to cite Uriel and try to get him to back up his words than you have no proof and treating it as a nevernever realm is close enough in terms of what you need. I mean, technically we didn't create it so much as it is tied to the Exaltation of which we are the current host. No difference in a practical sense but potentially relevant.
[X] Offer an alliance against the Red Court
-[X] Precise conditions to be specified later after a thorough discussions be our staff
-[X] While your troops might need preparation, you would be ready to supply equipment, for a reasonable price. Modern communication systems alone would be very useful for the council, no?
[X] Just the Exchange of Research Delegations for now
I think the alliance is a little too soon; we only just got our Realm and I don't think we should commit it to a formal international binding just yet. I would however be open to creating an informal working relationship against the Red Court here.
[X] Offer an alliance against the Red Court
-[X] Precise conditions to be specified later after a thorough discussions be our staff
-[X] While your troops might need preparation, you would be ready to supply equipment, for a reasonable price. Modern communication systems alone would be very useful for the council, no?
Nope, not in the slightest. Same principle as with the Alphas changing shape, you cannot violate the sanctity of your own mind and/or body. You can mess up if you do not know what you are doing, but that is not a Law issue, it is a skill issue.
Though it might have actual affects since like the laws may be political but some of them do you know have actual affects. Given its probably more along the lines the more you do it the more you think its alright since magic is reinforcing like that.
Though it might have actual affects since like the laws may be political but some of them do you know have actual affects. Given its probably more along the lines the more you do it the more you think its alright since magic is reinforcing like that.
Yeah absolutely fine just mentioning it cause lores fun. Given I do think there's probably a scenario where it goes bad with someone whose affinity lends to mind magic and they start editing their own mind or something and going down the rabbit hole.
It might make a big difference when true time travel is apparently something the White Council strongly disapproved of anyone trying, not just mortal wizards.
For all that he was buttering us up, I wonder how sincere Merlin was. We are a young queen, sword in hand and ready to conquer, forger of legacies and breaker of nations. Perhaps we remind him of the days of his youth?
Also, Merlin and the Wardens saw our shintai form, I have to note.
I'm against any further information exchange between the FCF and the White Council, and that goes doubly so for an actual exchange of personnel, before the WC's issue with traitors and infiltration is dealt with satisfactorily.
Now that we've established our credentials, so to speak, perhaps it would be a good time to show off some of our own divinatory prowess?
BMI is a priority as soon as we buy Splintered Gale Incarnation.
It allows us to hide our aura, which means that as long as we have at least 1 clone out, people cant be sure which is Molly Prime and which is the clone.
Considering just how noticeable our aura is, and how easily the class of enemies we regularly deal with can detect it, I would argue that BMI should come before SGI.
Nope, not in the slightest. Same principle as with the Alphas changing shape, you cannot violate the sanctity of your own mind and/or body. You can mess up if you do not know what you are doing, but that is not a Law issue, it is a skill issue.
I bet a conversation between Arthur and AESP would be interesting.
Doubt he would go for it, but given the potential overlap between his warding speciality and the whole deal with FCF spirit binders I could see it being tempting.
Just imagine what a wizard could do is they had a peer cadre of spirits in their body, which has been built up as a vessel by the someone who can bring vast outside experience to the techniques used to do so by normal binders.
It also is her soul, or rather part of it. They presumably can't see it with the examinations they've done. We're not talking about the exaltation itself either, the charm shapes it out of more than that.
I'm against any further information exchange between the FCF and the White Council, and that goes doubly so for an actual exchange of personnel, before the WC's issue with traitors and infiltration is dealt with satisfactorily.
Worth noting that for as big a deal as it is the council is by vast majority not traitorous or corrupt in the red/outsider collaborator sense.
It's "just" that some trusted high level people have turned coat. The broader goal of the people subverting them is effectively to both steal its power for themselves and to break them as a faction defending reality in general and mortals in particular.
Damaging their reputation so that allies won't cooperate with them as readily is as helpful to that end as actually undermining their effectiveness.
Considering just how noticeable our aura is, and how easily the class of enemies we regularly deal with can detect it, I would argue that BMI should come before SGI.
Leaving clones with mortal grade defenses who know all we know running around seems like an even worse idea that ever to me, BMI or no.
Leaving them in the FCF sure, but letting them out in the world where hiding matters is just asking to get one kidnapped, brain blasted, and pumped for information until we notice the problem.
Leaving clones with mortal grade defenses who know all we know running around seems like an even worse idea that ever to me, BMI or no.
Leaving them in the FCF sure, but letting them out in the world where hiding matters is just asking to get one kidnapped, brain blasted, and pumped for information until we notice the problem.
I'm against any further information exchange between the FCF and the White Council, and that goes doubly so for an actual exchange of personnel, before the WC's issue with traitors and infiltration is dealt with satisfactorily.
Now that we've established our credentials, so to speak, perhaps it would be a good time to show off some of our own divinatory prowess?
Considering just how noticeable our aura is, and how easily the class of enemies we regularly deal with can detect it, I would argue that BMI should come before SGI.
I'm in favor of a closer alliance with the white council, but this is never a good question to ask; it's just inviting the universe to answer you.
The risk is manageable because we can vet their diplomats and take measures to protect ourselves, but that doesn't mean it's nonexistent.
We don't actually know what these people know and can do, or the same on anyone they might share with. That complicates determining how they might exploit information now and in the future.
If an enemy cant tell which is the clone and which is the primary person, they have a 50% chance of picking the wrong target
So any attacks need twice the resources to attack both at the same time. Else they might attack the wrong one and simply alert Molly that someone is gunning for her.
eh its clear that we both disagree on this topic i am just going to wait for it to show its stuff in story there is no point in arguing now since we don't have the facts.
Broad milestones. Uh huh.
It says something, Im not sure what, that he checked for those details even with Molly's father in the room. No chill with that man.
Its also a reminder that most wizards are nosey S.O.Bs who tend to underplay what they are looking for.
Dresden is straightforward for a wizard, and even he tends to fall into those habits.
One can see how Dresden manages to irritate so many elder wizards in this scene.
Man has issues with authority, and you can see it.
At least you know its likely to be very hard to intimidate him.
Noting:
"Yes. Probably best to show before I tell given what we found there." So saying you pull out a tablet from among the ones you took from the palace, turn on the hologlyphic protector and just let it run, the ghostly blues and greens spilling out into the warm atmosphere of the pub, first showing an overview of the Kingdom, geography, recent history and then showing you, first the ascension to the throne and then the speech you had given to the entire world.
At this point the wardens are all looking at you like you are all the way 'round the bend, but Langtry... Well it is obviously not a good day for his composure by the way he leans in until his beard sweeps the table trying to get a look at the device, but he does not look disbelieving, more like someone who is trying to asses if they had hit the jackpot or a landmine and weighing their words very carefully.
For reference, this was the canon reaction of wizards to Donald Morgan producing a hologram in Summer Knight
"Precisely what I was thinking," the Merlin said, and nodded to one side. "Let us address the war. Warden Morgan, would you please stand forward and give the Council the Wardens' tactical assessment of the Red Court?"
An oppressive silence settled over the room, so that I heard every sound of Morgan's boots as he stepped up onto the stage. The Merlin moved aside, and Morgan placed a glittering gem or crystal of some kind upon the podium. Behind that, he set a candle, which he lit with a muttered incantation. Then he framed the candle with his hands and murmured again. Light streaked from the candle into the crystal in a glowing stream and sprang up out of the crystal again in a large cone stretching up above the stage, several yards across at the top. Within the cone of light appeared a spinning globe of the Earth, its continents vaguely misshapen, like something drawn from a couple of centuries past.
A murmur ran through the room, and Bluebeard, at my table, muttered in Latin, "Impressive."
"Bah," I said in English. "He stole that from Return of the Jedi." Bluebeard blinked at me, uncomprehending. I briefly debated trying to translate Star Wars into Latin and decided against it. See, I can have common sense, too.
Morgan's low voice rumbled out in Latin phrases, rough but understandable. Which meant he spoke it better than me. Jerk. "The flashing red spots on the map are the locations of known attacks of the Red Court and their allies. Most of them resulted in casualties of one form or another." As he spoke, widely scattered motes of red color began to form on the globe like the glowing lights of a Christmas tree. "As you can see, most of the activity has taken place in Western Europe."
So Molly pulling out a technological device that does much the same thing trivially as a senior field wizard is .....novel
Molly might be misinterpreting the looks.
The illustration and examples that Langtry chooses to use here are both illuminatory and a warning. A lot of the wizards on the Council are his age and will see things in that light as well: a new Power in the making, cutting its way to prominence. Noone with any attachment to the status quo, or who remembered how ascendant Powers historically acted is going to be particularly sanguine about a lot of this.
Exchange of Research Delegations. Explain the workings of earthly matters. Uh huh.
He has to know that its worth a lot more to him and the Council than it is to Molly; Molly being the daughter of a Knight ensures that she would have had at least a set of Cliffs Notes of how the world works once the shard showed up.
Something that was reinforced by Michael mentioning Uriel's house call.
And mentioning that she was present at the White Court purge a couple weeks ago is explicitly a declaration that she's being courted by factions, and that the White Council is behind the curve institutionally, with only a personal/family relationship with Dresden keeping them in the game.
I wonder if he thinks he's pulling the wool over Molly's eyes, or just dressing things up diplomatically and expecting Molly to understand what he's doing. Depends on what he saw I guess.
And if he's put together Molly's presence here with Mab's activity over Halloween.
By the way, this is significant, and something the Merlin apparently doesnt want us to know:
"Sir with all due respect did you see...?" Another of the wardens, this one a man in drab brown robes under his grey cloak of office Timothy you recall his name is, the great wizard Tim.
"Respect is a thing best acted on and not spoken of," the Merlin says, his voice dangerously low. Unhappily the younger wizard subsides as his boss gets down to the brass tacks, specifically how much control you actually have over Sanctuary and how easily it is to ferry people to and fro.
This is where I point out that Gaol/Panopticon would have been an essential feature of our Hell if we intended to bring foreigners into it. Which is a reason I argued for it.
At least we have that traitor's list, so we can summarily decline anyone on that list, explanation or not.
Of course, that does nothing for the problem of all the younger wizards who are currently influenced or mindcontrolled by Peabody.
And thus would probably not show up on a traitors list because they arent traitors.
Just puppets. And suicide bombers.
I would hope that Hellscry Chakra would pick up on mindcontrol magic, both because its black magic, and because aura viewing will explicitly show outside influences on a person's mind or soul like Dominate, but this is not the sort of thing I would like to field test in the Brass Courts with the potential for Bad Things if Im wrong.
These all sound like Traditions Rotes.
Noting that INT+Occult roll for Arthur remembering something that he either learned or was taught a long time ago.
I do wonder.
Just sad that there are confirmed to be only two surviving Dragons because Ancient Mai as a Dragon who decided that now that they were no longer the pillars that upheld reality the proper way to adjust to the new reality was to work with the White Council as one of them.
Word of Butcher is that most dragons dont like Humanity very much.
But there are both big D Dragons and lesser dragons; there's nothing preventing a lesser dragon that wanted to be a wizard to be sitting in the White Council right now if they liked humans that much.
Or just as likely, the part-dragon scion of a human-dragon(or human-Dragon) relationship.
After all, if even such notorious misanthropes as naagloshii and demons apparently can have part-human children, dragons doing so is nothing particularly eye-raising.
And there's precedent for such part-humans in the series, though they are not on the Council.
Jared Kincaid is a demon scion, Lucius Glau was a djinn scion, Goodman Grey is a naagloshii scion, and Irwin Pounder is a Bigfoot scion.The grendelkin was a scion of Grendel, and Gard is supposed to be a scion of Beowulf, who was apparently somehow connected to Odin.
Even if you are an absolute tyrant whose whim is law, basic courtesy involves not committing 5 billion people to a war with a faction they have never heard of on a planet they've never visited before without asking them their opinion ahead of time.Or even informing them of your intentions. Especially when that war involves throwing them up against Outsiders.
Not to mention the completely practical question of asking them what they can sustain in a supernatural war.
And if you're being appropriately paranoid(and Molly has Usum in her head to do her paranoia for her) it will certainly occur to her that there are going to be wizards and supernaturals who have White Council wizards in their back pocket whose intentions are going to lean more towards attempting to find ways to usurp this power from her.
See Sigfridsdottir, Kattrin, the Black Feast and the Red Room Murders.
The life or welfare of one 18-year old is a low, low cost by comparison for people willing to murder mortals in job lots.
According to the table in ExWoD, an Essence 3 Celestial Exalt is the equivalent of an Arete 6 mage in mystical potence.
Also a Dharma 6 Kueijin/6th generation vampire/Rank 4 Garou.
That's master mage/elder vampire/kueijin mandarin tier of mystical significance.
And Molly has both a Celestial Exaltation revving up, and the fact that Infernal Exalts are traditionally Outside Fate.
It makes sense that attempting to cast divination rotes on her might be a tad difficult.
Especially since Divination is not his specialty.
Broad milestones. Uh huh.
It says something, Im not sure what, that he checked for those details even with Molly's father in the room. No chill with that man.
Its also a reminder that most wizards are nosey S.O.Bs who tend to underplay what they are looking for.
It is not like Michael has the perception to know what Arthur might be doing, the only reason Molly knows is that she is rocking inhuman social skills.
Dresden is straightforward for a wizard, and even he tends to fall into those habits.
One can see how Dresden manages to irritate so many elder wizards in this scene.
Man has issues with authority, and you can see it.
At least you know its likely to be very hard to intimidate him.
And he pas particular issues with the Merlin, if it had been some other Senior Council member I would have given him a hard willpower roll to hold his tongue but given the history between them that did not seem appropriate. Dresden would be at least moderately annoying as a baseline
For reference, this was the canon reaction of wizards to Donald Morgan producing a hologram in Summer Knight
"Precisely what I was thinking," the Merlin said, and nodded to one side. "Let us address the war. Warden Morgan, would you please stand forward and give the Council the Wardens' tactical assessment of the Red Court?"
An oppressive silence settled over the room, so that I heard every sound of Morgan's boots as he stepped up onto the stage. The Merlin moved aside, and Morgan placed a glittering gem or crystal of some kind upon the podium. Behind that, he set a candle, which he lit with a muttered incantation. Then he framed the candle with his hands and murmured again. Light streaked from the candle into the crystal in a glowing stream and sprang up out of the crystal again in a large cone stretching up above the stage, several yards across at the top. Within the cone of light appeared a spinning globe of the Earth, its continents vaguely misshapen, like something drawn from a couple of centuries past.
A murmur ran through the room, and Bluebeard, at my table, muttered in Latin, "Impressive."
"Bah," I said in English. "He stole that from Return of the Jedi." Bluebeard blinked at me, uncomprehending. I briefly debated trying to translate Star Wars into Latin and decided against it. See, I can have common sense, too.
Morgan's low voice rumbled out in Latin phrases, rough but understandable. Which meant he spoke it better than me. Jerk. "The flashing red spots on the map are the locations of known attacks of the Red Court and their allies. Most of them resulted in casualties of one form or another." As he spoke, widely scattered motes of red color began to form on the globe like the glowing lights of a Christmas tree. "As you can see, most of the activity has taken place in Western Europe."
So Molly pulling out a technological device that does much the same thing trivially as a senior field wizard is .....novel
Molly might be misinterpreting the looks.
Even for Council wizards it is easier to record something like this and play it than it is to play it out on the fly, but yet what Molly did is impressive, though I would not say anyone but, ironically Langtry understands the scale of the thing. He is considerably older than the industrial revolution which means he understands the scale of it down to his bones, he lived though the most profound transformation in human existence since the development of agriculture. That but with magic... well let's just say that if he did not have WP 10 he might have to take a breather right about now.
The illustration and examples that Langtry chooses to use here are both illuminatory and a warning. A lot of the wizards on the Council are his age and will see things in that light as well: a new Power in the making, cutting its way to prominence. Noone with any attachment to the status quo, or who remembered how ascendant Powers historically acted is going to be particularly sanguine about a lot of this.
Exchange of Research Delegations. Explain the workings of earthly matters. Uh huh.
He has to know that its worth a lot more to him and the Council than it is to Molly; Molly being the daughter of a Knight ensures that she would have had at least a set of Cliffs Notes of how the world works once the shard showed up.
Something that was reinforced by Michael mentioning Uriel's house call.
And mentioning that she was present at the White Court purge a couple weeks ago is explicitly a declaration that she's being courted by factions, and that the White Council is behind the curve institutionally, with only a personal/family relationship with Dresden keeping them in the game.
I wonder if he thinks he's pulling the wool over Molly's eyes, or just dressing things up diplomatically and expecting Molly to understand what he's doing. Depends on what he saw I guess.
And if he's put together Molly's presence here with Mab's activity over Halloween.
By the way, this is significant, and something the Merlin apparently doesnt want us to know:
The thing about a free exchange of publicly available information is that it is the traditional prelude to an alliance... and also it frees Molly herself from what would otherwise be rather overwhelming tasks (it is not like he understands computers or the internet really). He gets more than you would think for someone his age, but still there are limits and cutting edge tech is not his wheelhouse
This is where I point out that Gaol/Panopticon would have been an essential feature of our Hell if we intended to bring foreigners into it. Which is a reason I argued for it.
At least we have that traitor's list, so we can summarily decline anyone on that list, explanation or not.
Of course, that does nothing for the problem of all the younger wizards who are currently influenced or mindcontrolled by Peabody.
And thus would probably not show up on a traitors list because they arent traitors.
Just puppets. And suicide bombers.
I would hope that Hellscry Chakra would pick up on mindcontrol magic, both because its black magic, and because aura viewing will explicitly show outside influences on a person's mind or soul like Dominate, but this is not the sort of thing I would like to field test in the Brass Courts with the potential for Bad Things if Im wrong.
Broad milestones. Uh huh.
It says something, Im not sure what, that he checked for those details even with Molly's father in the room. No chill with that man.
Its also a reminder that most wizards are nosey S.O.Bs who tend to underplay what they are looking for.
In his defense it probably wasn't optional if he was using a spell based on the collective subconscious for targeting as DP's occult roll post suggested. My take on it is that his divination basically answers a list of questions titled "Important Life Events" which is filled by a poll of unfiltered human opinion.
I wouldn't be totally surprised if paring down the sex related things on that list without compromising the overall ping was a significant part of the spell design process.
It could have been deliberate, because that sort of thing can be relevant to tracking how people behave, but if he had the ability to twist the spell around that much he'd probably have prioritized other questions.
This is where I point out that Gaol/Panopticon would have been an essential feature of our Hell if we intended to bring foreigners into it. Which is a reason I argued for it.
At least we have that traitor's list, so we can summarily decline anyone on that list, explanation or not.
We can work with what we have here. Normal nations can get by with tech and direct agent based stalking, so we're at worst ahead of the curve in tools and behind it in experience.
We also have the advantage of open magic creating all sorts of specializations that wouldn't show up on earth.
Mind magic, for example, would be a lot more tempting in a world under the wheel. As a result of that it'd make sense if they had people dedicated to checking for and countering mind magic as much as is possible.
Insisting we soul gaze any of the first people to step into our soul or that they go through our version of airport security could be pulled off with our social skills, which would give us an IF understanding of what Peabody is up to.
Langtry understands the scale of the thing. He is considerably older than the industrial revolution which means he understands the scale of it down to his bones, he lived though the most profound transformation in human existence since the development of agriculture. That but with magic... well let's just say that if he did not have WP 10 he might have to take a breather right about now.
His direct comparison to England is somewhat unflattering in that context. It must be strange for a Brit that old to be considering the idea that he might be the colonized party in the new age of empires if things go poorly.
Fortunately I'm pretty sure we just want to be a corporate overlord on this side of the gauntlet.
