Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

You know, the 5 dot prayer eating charm is normally not a thing that Molly would ever consider using, but considering it's supposed to be a permanent soul bond, does anyone think it's possible to combo that with some other custom charm so that anyone under that effect is also under the turning of the wheel we refer they are? It might still not make it worth it in Molly's eyes, but it would make it much more viable if we had a path to make some of our most devoted followers immortal even on earth or in farie.
The real thing it allows is investigation into if the Prayer eating 5 dot charm, can upgrades the worshiper from current levels of prayer IE nothing to exalted prayer. Because right now Molly is rocking a Cult 9-10 dot that does basically nothing. But if we can upgrade people to at as worshiper in exalted terms that matters. Hard to do but about 500+ people of creation level worshipers, is two essence motes every hour.

Ultra time consuming but a big payoff it we can get it going.
 
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And then our journey to the Primordial side will be complete. Only step then is to make our own Exalted and be overthrown by them.
 
Honestly, getting up to Prayer Eating 3 is not a bad idea depending on how much xp we have.

It would narratively be a good way to interact with our Citizens without being forced to go into our inner world.

Since they are in Molly's soul, they are always in range for the charms. So this is a relatively cheap way to improve their lives and to get to know them.

I will honesty vote for it in the next update. Yeah, we can get "better" "important" stuff etc, etc, but this is bout useful and fun, while saving precious AP.
 
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Another thing to consider for the buy is our perfect attack. Defenses are probably a higher priority long term, but our line of sight death glare would be very helpful in the immediate future.

Wait for Ortega to be crossing somewhere with little cover and then hit her from way the hell away every round till she pops like like a peep in a microwave.
If we buy something offensive, I'd want our multi-attack Charm.

Right now our strongest offensive option is to attack with 18+ melee dice, with aggravated damage.
Being able to do so multiple times per round is by far the most efficient upgrade to our damage per round.
 
Honestly, getting up to Prayer Eating 3 is not a bad idea depending on how much xp we have.
It would narratively be a good way to interact with our Citizens without being forced to go into our inner world.

Since they are in Molly's soul, they are always in range for the charms. So this is a relatively cheap way to improve their lives and to get to know them.

I will honesty vote for it in the next update. Yeah, we can get "better" "important" stuff etc, etc, but this is bout useful and fun, while saving precious AP.
1)It doesnt work that way. I quote:
Prayer Eating 1 said:
Hear Prayers (•)
The Exalt seats herself, empties her mind, and allows her worshipers' prayers to flow into her consciousness. This Charm allows the character to monitor the supplications and wishes of her followers, so long as they speak their prayers in at least a faint whisper; unspoken prayers cannot reach the character's ears. She can even use this Charm to pick up distress calls from imprisoned or endangered worshipers, so long as their entreaty for help is part of a heartfelt prayer.

System: The Exalt must relax as completely as she is able, in a place relatively free of distractions, and make a Stamina + Occult roll against difficulty 6. Success allows her to hear prayers uttered within a number of miles equal to her (Essence rating x 5). These prayers must be issued with sincerity, and they must be directed to the Exalt.
Its not an interactive charm. You only hear stuff that people ask for in prayer, and only if you are relaxed and listening when they are praying; if you arent listening at that moment of prayer, you dont hear it.
There's no answering machines apparently.

Its a power optimized for religious ceremonies, as is most of the Prayer Eating discipline.
What its not intended for is any attempt to stay in contact with, let alone interact with the 5 billion strong population of Molly's Hell.

Nor is Molly's mortal psyche set up to handle that at the moment.
She certainly doesnt have the power to do so; answering prayers requires Prayer-Eating 3 minimum, and every prayer requires 1 Essence to even try. An Essence pool of 15/15 only leaves you so much Essence to spend.



2) We're looking at buying the clone charm anyway in a couple months.
Its the third major purchase on the horizon for Molly in the first two or three months of 2007, after Crafting(~15xp after discounts) and a Shaping defense(20xp currently).

This allows Molly to put an instance of herself on the ground in the Hell while Molly Prime is about her normal business.
So if you want Molly interacting with people in her Hell, you actually have a vastly superior option on the table.
One that we have to take anyway.
 
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She certainly doesnt have the power to do so; answering prayers requires Prayer-Eating 3 minimum, and every prayer requires 1 Essence to even try. An Essence pool of 15/15 only leaves you so much Essence to spend.
GM has explicitly said that answer prayers scales with the number of people praying for something. To the point that if most of Chicago where to pray to Molly to fix the city, it would happen.
 
Its not an interactive charm. You only hear stuff that people ask for in prayer, and only if you are relaxed and listening when they are praying; if you arent listening at that moment of prayer, you dont hear it.
There's no answering machines apparently.
That's what prayer eating 2 is for. It can work on any worshipper, and 3 sucks on a fairly easy roll is enough to an idea of all prayers in the last month and their reasoning. Higher succs mean much more intimate knowlege. And there are people praying to Molly all the time, in minor ways, with the Pop I would imagine range from 100,000 to a million active prayers at any moment when there aren't religious events going on.
 
-The Exalt spends 1 Essence and makes a Perception + Occult roll with a difficulty equal to the local Gauntlet rating.-

This might be a problem in context the local Gauntlet rating is likely our willpower. So not that easy a roll when we aren't in our kingdom. But it is possible to answer prayers up to a week old. But I am not finding Prayer-eating 3 as something we need to rush to. 1 and 2 are still good though and might give us a training discount.
 
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That's what prayer eating 2 is for. It can work on any worshipper, and 3 sucks on a fairly easy roll is enough to an idea of all prayers in the last month and their reasoning. Higher succs mean much more intimate knowlege. And there are people praying to Molly all the time, in minor ways, with the Pop I would imagine range from 100,000 to a million active prayers at any moment when there aren't religious events going on.
Prayer Eating 2 requires that you be in the presence of the worshipper and looking into their eyes.
Prayer Appraisal (••)
The Exalt gazes into the eyes of one of her worshippers, and therein sees his innermost hopes and desires. The distinction of "worshiper" is crucial; if the subject doesn't genuinely acknowledge the Exalt as a supernatural being capable of exercising miraculous guidance over his life and worthy of deep reverence, this Charm reveals nothing whatsoever – although even that can be useful in its way, as it allows the Exalt to weed out the faithless from her congregation.

Prayer Appraisal can function even across the Gauntlet or Shroud, allowing the Chosen to surreptitiously gauge the hearts of the faithful.

System: The Exalt gazes into her subject's eyes, and the player rolls Perception + Empathy. If the subject is actively offering prayers to the Exalt, the difficulty is the lowest of 4 or the target's Willpower. Otherwise, this roll is made against the highest of the two values. The more successes rolled, the more clearly the Exalt reads her worshiper's heart.
• One success: The Exalt knows if the subject is sincerely praying, and what general thing they most want from her: "I want my grandmother to live."
• Two successes: As with one success, but the Exalt also knows why the target desires the thing they want: "I want my grandmother to live so I can get into her will."
• Three successes: The Exalt also gets a short summary of the target's prayers over the last month, along with their reasoning. Furthermore, she learns the subject's name, her Demeanor, and a few very broad strokes of her personal history.
• Four successes: As three successes, but the Exalt also learns the target's Nature, Willpower score, most of their personal history, and mystical ties or bonds that might hold power over them (such as a blood bond, or being conditioned to possession by a ghost), their current thoughts and feelings, any long-term plans, and finally, the Exalt knows if her worshiper has ever lied to her.
• Five successes: The target's soul is an open book to the Exalt – all of their thoughts, history, dreams, desires, memories (even edited or suppressed ones), and ugly secrets are laid bare before her.
You have to be face to face with the person, even if the person is on the other side of the Gauntlet.

These arent remote deployment push button powers.
They are designed to allow you to roleplay cult leader, or evangelical church pastor if you are American.
And there is only so much you can bend it otherwise.

GM has explicitly said that answer prayers scales with the number of people praying for something. To the point that if most of Chicago where to pray to Molly to fix the city, it would happen.
Citation needed. I am reasonably sure that rules as written, that is not true.
Prayer Eating 3 is explicitly clear about the limits of its power, and fixing Chicago is entirely too broad and vague a remit for it:
Fulfill Prayer (•••)
The Exalt very lightly sets her fingers upon the threads of fate and fortune, tugging them into closer alignment with an offered prayer so that it is more likely to come true. This is a very minor miracle: it can't raise the dead or conjure wealth from thin air. It merely nudges reality toward desirable outcomes, and the more humble the prayer, the more likely it is to be granted. It cannot cure a worshiper's cancer, but might drive it into remission for a few years – or at least until the postulant sees his son graduate.

The Exalt cannot answer her own prayers, but there's nothing stopping her from lavishing her favor upon the prayers of others that best align with her own wishes or agenda.

System: The Exalt spends 1 Essence and makes a Perception + Occult roll with a difficulty equal to the local Gauntlet rating. The more successes garnered, the more strongly fate and fortune will work to grant the selected prayer. This is a matter of storytelling rather than solid systems, but protecting "blessed" actions from botches or granting free specialties are within rea- son, if some systems manifestations of this Charm are needed. This Charm can't answer prayers more than a week old, and the prayers must be offered directly to the Exalt in the sincere and uncynical belief that she is a supernatural being capable of using her power to grant miracles to those she favors.
Success has nothing to do with how many people want it.
And its not guaranteed either; the bigger your ask, the less likely it is to be pulled off.

Else Molly would solve the setting right now by asking her Hell's population to pray to her to fix everything, and the prayers of over two billion plus people would be enough..
 
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Vote closed.
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Aug 24, 2023 at 1:55 AM, finished with 77 posts and 15 votes.
 
Important point - Fulfill Prayer can be used as an ersatz Fortune Path (or something similar) to boost Molly herself. It would not be hard to have several monasteries praying for the Empress's success in all endeavors (in fact, there are probably already monasteries doing that). We could then grant those prayers. It's unlikely that we could develop this into a singularity of prayers (prayer X: "please, make the next prayer come true", repeat for a couple hundred thousand times to snowball the effect), but it should be useful.
 
Important point - Fulfill Prayer can be used as an ersatz Fortune Path (or something similar) to boost Molly herself. It would not be hard to have several monasteries praying for the Empress's success in all endeavors (in fact, there are probably already monasteries doing that). We could then grant those prayers. It's unlikely that we could develop this into a singularity of prayers (prayer X: "please, make the next prayer come true", repeat for a couple hundred thousand times to snowball the effect), but it should be useful.
It IS essentially Fortune Path.
Just less powerful and more limited than Fortune Path is, because its design intent is to allow the Exalt to milk the congregation for Essence and minions by inspiring belief, not to actually help them.

I mean, we're talking about a skill tree thats explicitly incapable of curing a worshipper's cancer.
Might force several years remission, but thats it.
 
You have to be face to face with the person, even if the person is on the other side of the Gauntlet.
We are metaphysically zero distance from anything inside our soul.

Which honestly is a good reason to be careful about what we let in.
How do you think bashing will help you against Ethniu and her mordite alloy armor, some of the Denarians, or a shoggoth, or a loup garou? Even wizards like Ebenezar wear robes in combat that can soak lethal damage.

Tear armor off or just not bothering attacking the armor just the thing inside it. Or throw her around I haven't actually read battleground.

Denarians take their coin.

shoggoth not really defined enough for me to answer even bashing damage might work.

loup garou throw inherited silver at it.

Wizards throw a large mass at them those robes have generally not given the impression that they can stop a thrown car from crushing.

It's like you have no imagination at all.
 
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It IS essentially Fortune Path.
Just less powerful and more limited than Fortune Path is, because its design intent is to allow the Exalt to milk the congregation for Essence and minions by inspiring belief, not to actually help them.

I mean, we're talking about a skill tree thats explicitly incapable of curing a worshipper's cancer.
Might force several years remission, but thats it.
We don't really know how it scales with either successes or the number of prayers fulfilled. Like, if we fulfill 15 of the same prayer of "let the Empress succeed in her endeavor", and roll 15 successes on each of the prayer granting roll, what would the cumulative effect be?

Also, curing cancer, as in actually fully curing it, is not a minor working. The example given (forcing remission for a couple of years until they see their child graduate) is not a small result, especially if the worshipper is free to supplement the prayer-granted miracle with additional treatments.

It's a very versatile tool. not a hammer, but a multitool.
 
Just protection from botches is fairly good. Like say if you are an alchemist going for mass production.
 
Winning Vote
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Aug 24, 2023 at 1:55 AM, finished with 77 posts and 15 votes.
 
Arc 8 Post 69: Not Quite Hamlet
Not Quite Hamlet

18th of November 2006 A.D.

What would happen to the spirits if they...? It is still weird to have answers just show up in your head, not as though someone had told you, but as though you had always known and just asked as silly question. Of course the machine spirits Iris included would just fall back into your anima, just as though you can summoned them yourself. Wool-headed, that is what it makes you feel like, an expression you had heard a few times from grandma Carpenter before she passed. What would she think of the tangle you landed yourself in? You shake your head. "You should be careful with that stuff unless you want to get picked up by the nice man in the black suit. Do you want to risk that?"

"What was it that kidnapped us again?" Izzy asks. "Old Indian demon? I think Uncle Sam is less of a concern all things considered."

"A Naagloshii, a shape-shifting demon known to the Navajo people as, betrayers of the Holy Ones. they are teachers in things that really should stay untaught and I guess gods to the poor sods who fall in with them, though really calling them that is giving them too much credit." They already know most of it

"Well yeah, First Commandment," your friend says, but she sounds a little dubious. "You would tell us if we were living in Hercules the Live Action Adaptation right?" It is pretty clear she would prefer if you dismissed the possibility as glibly as she brought it up, it's just a pity you can't.

They are in too deep now, Broken Seeker had made sure of that no matter that you say so you go with honesty: "Well it depends on what you mean by God. Saint Augustine probably wouldn't be very impressed by them, but I have met Odin and Daniel's dating the daughter of Arwan King of the Underworld."

Izzy gives a strained laugh, hollow. "Ha ha, very funny Molls, good Marvel reference... But like really this isn't.. Oh God you are not kidding." She slumps in her chair, looking not so much scarred as dejected, like she does not know what to do with herself in this scary new world.

Here and now, breathing the air of a place that was born of power older than the world, than this iteration of the world you are starting to suspect. It is easy to miss just how little the two of them know, compared to Harry or your father, what they can deal with and what they can't. Am I losing perspective, am I just losing them? The faint sound of the chair shifting as you squirm is like nails on a chalkboard.

"God works in mysterious ways?" Alec offers, sounding not resigned with it, but close to it. "Like the man said to the skull there are more things in Heaven and Earth etc... etc..."

"Do you even know the rest of that line, or where it came from?" zzy suddenly snapping to, as though the sound of Alec bullshitting his way though something English-Lit related triggered some deep-seated instinct in her.

"No... I don't have to, you filled in the rest," your other friend fills in shamelessly.

"Urgh! You are the worst, worse than miss 'I am friends with the daughter of an ancient Celtic deity and I am only now mentioning it'."

"Hey I said that she was dating Daniel, not that we are friends, we are friends, but you are getting ahead of the story here. Do do wanna hear the whole thing?"

That is how Harry finds the three of you surrounded by bags talking about the happenings of the last few months in more detail than you had so far, Iris on the table next to you, rippling with highlights of green and silver interest. "Are we ready do go?" He sounds almost regretful

You arch an eyebrow. "Found something interesting?" Naught point one on the flirt scale, you can go with that far even with Izzy, Alec and your dad watching.

"Entirely too much, the implications of this place... they are going to keep me up at night for a long time to come." Weary sigh is not what you were going for but you guess it will have to do, at least until you got rid of the vampire who put a price on his life and the skinwalker who wanted to eat him. Maybe you could do a tour then...

Inward thoughts turn, a thousand and one spinning, round round the pillar of your soul, not a circle, not a sphere, a spiral twisting, like the dragons embrace, like a strand of DNA, like a ladder leading up and out to:

Passage Location (Must be linked to your themes in some way)

[] The Freezer in the Chicago Synthetics building (Place that has been brought below freezing by artificial means)

[] The Skull and Crossbones Club (Place where her favorite song is playing)

[] Write in


OOC: I was going to make this the XP update, but then I remembered we had not covered this part of the charm, the first time you used it was an bit of an extraordinary situation but per the rules Molly should only be able to open a way to and from the Kingdom in places that match her themes
 
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Kinda tempted to pick the Library. A place of knowledge freely offered means that Molly can open the gateway to multiple locations in the entire world.

That also meant more chances for outside forces gaining entry to the Court though so, you know, plus and minus.

In summary, if we want a safe fortress, we might want to pick Last Station. If we want to pick a much more confounding and much more difficult to access place, the Chicago Syntethics. If we want a teleport hub, the Library.
 
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Kinda tempted to pick the Library. A place of knowledge freely offered means that Molly has instant gateway to multiple locations in the entire world.

That also meant more chances for outside forces gaining entry to the Court though so, you know, plus and minus.

This is about how Molly's charm works, a manifestation of her soul doing non-Euclidean things that might break the mind of men to look upon with the Sight it does not make it any easier for other people to access her world-soul at the location except maybe if they can hide at once she are currently using and follow you through, but even that would be hard. Right not the easiest, if by no means easy way to get here is through the spirit world by Ways yet untrod.
 
We are metaphysically zero distance from anything inside our soul.
Which honestly is a good reason to be careful about what we let in.
Its that you are doing this individually for each person.
There's five billion people in Molly's soul; at 10 seconds per person, you're still under 400k people despite doing nothing else all year.

Do the math.
We are metaphysically zero distance from anything inside our soul.

Which honestly is a good reason to be careful about what we let in.


Tear armor off or just not bothering attacking the armor just the thing inside it.

Denarians take their coin.

shoggoth not really defined enough for me to answer even bashing damage might work.

loup garou throw inherited silver at it.

Wizards throw a large mass at them those robes have generally not given the impression that they can stop a thrown car from crushing.

It's like you have no imagination at all.
In order:
  • Mordite alloy armor cant be removed
  • Denarian coins cant just be taken from a living wielder; every Coin has been either given or taken from the body of a dead person.
  • The one shoggoth we've seen was buried and they put guardians over its resting place rather than destroy it., which may or may not suggest that it was difficult to destroy. Or that they might want to use it in the future.
  • Who walks around with inherited silver weaponry? Not even wizards have that stuff as standard issue. Its like saying you'll banish a skinwalker with the Blessing Way; it exists, but its not exactly in common circulation.
  • And it runs into a Dresden style forcefield, or a Ramirez-type disintegrating shield. Or even just that the wizard dodges.
I think you are handwaving a lot of stuff.
My two cents.
We don't really know how it scales with either successes or the number of prayers fulfilled. Like, if we fulfill 15 of the same prayer of "let the Empress succeed in her endeavor", and roll 15 successes on each of the prayer granting roll, what would the cumulative effect be?

Also, curing cancer, as in actually fully curing it, is not a minor working. The example given (forcing remission for a couple of years until they see their child graduate) is not a small result, especially if the worshipper is free to supplement the prayer-granted miracle with additional treatments.

It's a very versatile tool. not a hammer, but a multitool.
The intent appears to be quite clear to me, at least.
If it was something that was designed to scale with worshippers, it would break the setting over one knee with one charm and 20-30XP.

Consider that if this was something that scaled with worshippers, the objectively optimal route would be to get the biggest Hell with Fanatical Loyalty and simply pray your way to victory.
Strengthening the Outer Gates? Discovering Nemesis? Getting rid of the Red Court? Call a special day of prayer.

=====
Curing cancer is that simple.
Just depends on how early you catch it, and what type it is.
Skin cancers are regularly nabbed early and treated successfully. Pancreatic cancer, not so much.


OOC: I was going to make this the XP update, but then I remembered we had not covered this part of the charm, the first time you used it was an bit of an extraordinary situation but per the rules Molly should only be able to open a way to and from the Kingdom in places that match her themes
No, thats inaccurate. Circumstances, not locations.
I quote:
the King and the Kingdom: the thousand and First hell (•••••)
The Infernal shapes her heart, soul, and Essence into the shape of a realm of her devising, featuring what- ever oddities of geography or natural law suit her nature.

System: The Infernal crafts a new Hell-realm within her own Exaltation. By meditating in specific circumstances selected while learning this Charm (such as in perfect darkness, while covered in blood, or to the sound of screams) and making a Wits + Occult roll against a difficulty of her own Willpower (which acts as the effective Gauntlet rating for this internal realm), she may disappear into her Kingdom for up to five days, making it impossible to find her. She can linger no longer, however, and must spend at least that much time in reality before visiting again. Spending five full days within the Kingdom resets the difficulty and cost of her Shintai transformation.

By paying 2 Essence while crossing over into her inner landscape, the Infernal may also bring up to a score of willing, restrained, or unconscious individuals along with her. Visitors to the Kingdom may stay for as long as they wish (indeed, they may even become permanent residents), and are free to depart whenever they desire – so long as they are able to walk to the border of the realm. While the Kingdom must be com- posed of geography which makes this possible, nothing stops the Infernal from importing soldiers to man guard posts, or adorning the realm with prisons, natural hazards, and the like.

While within her personal Hell, the duration of the Infernal's Shintai form becomes indefinite rather than scene-length: she may wear it until she chooses to dismiss it, or until it is destroyed.

Upon learning the King and the Kingdom, any Charm the Infernal knows which consigns a being to a particular Hell may instead be used to entrap them in the Infernal's Kingdom. The Infernal must have an Essence rating of at least 3 to purchase this Charm. Rules for creating the Kingdom can be found beginning on page 192.

Signature Effect: When the Infernal dons her Shintai form, and while that form persists, the world around her within (Essence x 500) yards warps and twists, gaining many of the features of her Kingdom. Any time the Infernal uses a stunt incorporating the features of her Kingdom, she reduces the difficulty of that action by one.
Molly could choose to enter her Hell from anywhere.
Her chosen circumstances could be being covered with water/blood/liquid, or while humming or listening to a heavy metal tune(or other appropriate music), or holding a sword, or whatever.

Her choice.
 
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