Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

[X] Pick up your friends and Harry and get back home, the Exarchate is going to need several days at least to absorb what you have just told them, but Broken Seeker and Arianna Ortega will not wait
-[X]Pick up some blank smartphones and a laptop or two for use
-[X]Be sure that Dresden takes a blank tablet and something like a billet of metal with him
 
Question, is there any particular magical technique or effect supernatural factions (particularly those like Odin's crew who are using modern weaponry and tactics in conjunction with, and thus would be arguably the most analogous to forces we'd field) use to successfully operate while maintaining the masquerade (other than killing/brainwashing everyone they come across, of course), or is it just more a matter of stealth and carefully choosing (or creating) the right time and place for unnoticed violent action?

Essentially, are there any magic tricks or ideas either from Earth or our realm which we could try to make a tactical insertion more... discrete?

I suppose we should consider what resources, technologies, personnel, organisations and options we have for operatives and equipment more specialised for subterfuge, investigation and spy-craft... especially as I suspect unfortunately not every problem can be solved through application of overwhelming violence. :V

Sure, veils are a thing, one that can be done with path magic, the problem is though you have to know what you are pretending to be first and from whom you are hiding. Once that huddle is crossed you could make high tech weapons that look like mundane ones for instance with some trade offs of course but you could go all Q on this thing.
 
At E3 and a 15/15m pool, Molly would only be able to use VEE on 3x people before running out of Essence, and would then have to spend 4 hours in a bleach bath.
Once we get the Dragon nest up and running the essanse logistics get a bit easier since we can recover well crafting, reading a book or talking with people.

Also which people can we bring out of our hell who would be the most helpful for fixing up the last station? Want to make sure we finish it this round.
 
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Taking the equipment now doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Firstly because it'll basically be whatever is on hand and taking the leave now option means we'll be in a hurry. Secondly because we'll to work out storage and transportation, in addition to the bit where we're going to appear on a random street corner with whatever we take back.
The stuff on hand in the capital, anything man portable will be the best stuff available. Sure if we want tanks or super large stuff we need it brought in from the war city, but so what their is an active teleportation network between all the cities, and the capital.
 
One thing you guys should perhaps consider is that Molly and a shape-shifting monstrosity from the dawn of time are about to go on a mission to assassinate an ancient vampire. Broken Seeker can do veils and he even knows when to use them so if you want a high power strike team right now, you have the opportunity to use it.
 
I am thinking we should go with spies and analysts this first go around, we don't desperately need guards or wizards right now and they will be the most useful for gathering data to give back to the cities to help them adapt to the new world.
Edit- A strike team from hell doesn't sound too bad either though
 
Do you not understand that we do have an army already. VEE improves what we have, and we already have different people that each have 5 dots paths scattered across the hell. Upping them to 6 dots to make them legendary, a full order of magnitude greater ablity, and power they gain access to. The difference between 5 dot alchemy and 6 dots is vast 6 dot is can make a philosopher stone. And also people with 6 dots are massively better at everything below 6 dots.

The only reason we cannot just take our summoning path people out of the hell, and have them summon up an army is they lack the knowledge of how to work the path outside the hell. VEE their summoning path higher to grant them the knowledge, and we can drop an army of unkillable magictech warriors anywhere we want.

I was against getting a hell like this for this exact reason. We have moved into stomp or be stomped territory, as given any time Molly can just kill about everything with raw numbers of deathless warriors.
1)One: we have a population of people, not an army.

Two: You have shifted the goal posts from talking about people in general to now talking about top tier sorcerers.

Three: Respectfully, you have a habit of making wild claims with no textual backing.
Where do you get this assertion that there are plenty of 5 dots Path Sorcery people in our Hell?
Are you just making assumptions based on population?

Do you know if our culture has promoted multidisciplinary competence instead of monomaniacal focus?
For all you know there's a ton of people with Path 3/4 in a dozen sorceries and psychic numina, instead of Path 5 in one.

I mean, how many people would even bother if there are spirits available to allow you to cheat the process?
The fact that something is possible in theory doesnt mean thats how its worked out in practice.
Notice how there are no wizards in the Brass Courts, despite a lot of humans being here?


2) No we arent in curbstomp territory.
I happen to think that 5 billion people was an order of magnitude too many people, but thats not the same thing as being in stomp territory. Yet.
Once we get the Dragon nest up and running the essanse logistics get a bit easier since we can recover well crafting, reading a book or talking with people.
Not sure how they'll work here.
And it doesnt change the fundamental bottleneck where you can only use VEE once a year per person.

The stuff on hand in the capital, anything man portable will be the best stuff available. Sure if we want tanks or super large stuff we need it brought in from the war city, but so what their is an active teleportation network between all the cities, and the capital.
The US Army does not keep its best stuff in Washington DC. Manportable or otherwise.
We have no reason to assume that the Courts would keep the best military gear in the capital city.
Let alone the kind of covert stuff that you need for operating in another society.

One thing you guys should perhaps consider is that Molly and a shape-shifting monstrosity from the dawn of time are about to go on a mission to assassinate an ancient vampire. Broken Seeker can do veils and he even knows when to use them so if you want a high power strike team right now, you have the opportunity to use it.
Molly has Stealth 0 and feels like a mobile Darkhallow.
I doubt she can pull off the veiled approach thing.

And to be fair, she can come back for that strike team like fifteen minutes or an hour before showtime.
 
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I really want to get VEE right now to both empower our people and give them a safe word to quickly retreat to our kingdom.

Unfortunately I doubt we are going to have 20 XP to spend with having already bought our kingdom this arc.
 
For the idea of *we have nowhere to put our spies or other allies we take with us*, we absolutely do have a place, send them to the Last station and while we're there, we can also talk to our little haven what they think about going to hell... err, I mean, going to a cyberpunk city full of demons... changing place, what they think of changing place.

[x] Yog
 
[X] Uju32

Do you not understand that we do have an army already. VEE improves what we have, and we already have different people that each have 5 dots paths scattered across the hell. Upping them to 6 dots to make them legendary, a full order of magnitude greater ablity, and power they gain access to. The difference between 5 dot alchemy and 6 dots is vast 6 dot is can make a philosopher stone. And also people with 6 dots are massively better at everything below 6 dots.

The only reason we cannot just take our summoning path people out of the hell, and have them summon up an army is they lack the knowledge of how to work the path outside the hell. VEE their summoning path higher to grant them the knowledge, and we can drop an army of unkillable magictech warriors anywhere we want.

I was against getting a hell like this for this exact reason. We have moved into stomp or be stomped territory, as given any time Molly can just kill about everything with raw numbers of deathless warriors.
Uju32 just quoted the charm to demonstrate that you can't do that though. You can give merits that make magic easier or add other benefits, but you can't raise someone's path/sphere rating directly.

As to the stomp or be stomped territory thing; we just got a lot of advantages, but actually apply them takes work and has consequences.

Most of the examples you've presented on this front have been based on your interpretations of the mechanics in a few key places that aren't actually in use here.
The stuff on hand in the capital, anything man portable will be the best stuff available. Sure if we want tanks or super large stuff we need it brought in from the war city, but so what their is an active teleportation network between all the cities, and the capital.
The palace isn't exactly a city though. It's the seat of government and a religious site, but they haven't been at war for ages and probably mostly deal in peacekeeping these days.

They probably have some stuff, but off the shelf stuff in the quantities we can get away with revealing on a random street corner don't really suite our needs very well.
A few electro lasers and some standard issue power armor aren't as useful to us as say your idea with drone strikes, and I doubt they have the really good killer robots sitting around in crates under their version of the Vatican.
Really if we're getting anything for Molly I'd like to have her involved in crafting it. Working with the local experts could let us pull some crazy stuff with power armor to use when we don't care about being seen.
Also, there isn't a teleportation network though they seem to have the capability at some level. This build uses trains.

I really want to get VEE right now to both empower our people and give them a safe word to quickly retreat to our kingdom.

Unfortunately I doubt we are going to have 20 XP to spend with having already bought our kingdom this arc.

Might have 15 for the crafting charm though. We could probably make some decent escape tokens with it given time to experiment.
 
While VEE is definitely seductive as a charm, I think Constructive Convergence of Principles is still my preferred pick. Perhaps with it we can even construct a Stargate techno magic portal between our world and the last station or somewhere without a dedicated portal charm?
 
Sure, veils are a thing, one that can be done with path magic, the problem is though you have to know what you are pretending to be first and from whom you are hiding. Once that huddle is crossed you could make high tech weapons that look like mundane ones for instance with some trade offs of course but you could go all Q on this thing.

Also - I forgot to ask, but I'm also guessing we don't have any (at least for now) sufficiently advanced smart camouflage or light bending or other stealth (magi-)tech which would enormously expand or change our options for stealth, correct?

And lastly, how effective would our hacking and ECMs capabilities be against Earth technology, provided they have time and practise to familiarise themselves with Earth computer architecture and electronic design?

And yes, we should probably err on the side of caution (i.e. overkill) for preparation and backup on this upcoming mission, both for the target and as insurance against our ally. We can work on more subtle approaches after. I suspect Broken Seeker would be delighted see and work with such a team/operation in action for the low price of keeping things under wraps (or at least concealing our involvement) from the general populace and mortal authorities.
 
I think a set of person portable drones is a good idea.

See what I suggested before about drones equivalents to Switchblade 600s piloted by Cyberdevils.

A preparatory bombardment by a dozen of them (which we should be able to carry between us) to soften up the enemy defences would make an assault on a high ranking member of the Red Court a lot easier.

They can probably be flown in by our government in a couple of hours.
 
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Our kingdom does have a giant armed boarder wall to protect against all the Megafauna in the wastes. Some of the tech can likely be used for other purposes.
 
@DragonParadox Molly's house has internet connection, right? I am guessing we haven't solved "how to make our tech talk to Earth tech" yet, or anywhere close to it, but getting a sophont Machine spirit in a proper data analysis chassis with a SUTRA to hook up to the internet as a prep course would be a good compromise I think.
 
Actually; how strong is a heavily cybered dragon wearing power armour?

Could they pick up a piece of heavy field artillery? If they can lift it even for a little while, we can transport it to earth. We can use RVD to get somewhere in artillery range of the enemy's dwelling and then transport a battery of them from our hell; and then have the artillery men fire off a series of Cyberdevil guided shells from each using time on target techniques so they all arrive simultaneously.

Dropping a tonne or so of a mixture of bunker busting, thermobaric, high explosive, and cluster munitions right on top of the enemy all at once should make our follow on assault much easier.

And that's assuming they don't have more exotic Thaumaturgical/Alchemical rounds.
 
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@DragonParadox Molly's house has internet connection, right? I am guessing we haven't solved "how to make our tech talk to Earth tech" yet, or anywhere close to it, but getting a sophont Machine spirit in a proper data analysis chassis with a SUTRA to hook up to the internet as a prep course would be a good compromise I think.

Yes, the house has a landline. You could adapt something to plug a SUTRA in.

Actually; how strong is a heavily cybered dragon wearing power armour?

Could they pick up a piece of heavy field artillery? If they can lift it even for a little while, we can transport it to earth. We can use RVD to get somewhere in artillery range of the enemy's dwelling and then transport a battery of them from our hell; and then have the artillery men fire off a series of Cyberdevil guided shells from each using time on target techniques so they all arrive simultaneously.

Dropping a tonne or so of a mixture of bunker busting, thermobaric, high explosive, and cluster munitions right on top of the enemy all at once should make our follow on assault much easier.

The Charm is a bit stricter with things, for something to be an item you carry you have to be capable of lifting it consistently, not just once in a while with feats of strength and a willpower burn. That said you could get some pretty heavy mortars in if you got STR 9 people to carry them in.
 
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VEE has been discussed so much at this point that I can very much tell it is overhyped, one thing for five motes once a year an army doesn't make, no matter how you approach it. Too costly, too restricted.
I don't want VEE to make an army, I want it to be able to grant wishes to our friends are such. It's power is not in its individual potency, but it's flexibility in being able to give near anyone something they really want.
 
VEE has been discussed so much at this point that I can very much tell it is overhyped, one thing for five motes once a year an army doesn't make, no matter how you approach it. Too costly, too restricted.

You can use it once per person, not once ever. It can be very useful for senior leaders and professionals. An extra dot of skill means more narratively than it does mechanically, and some merits are very good,

Charmed life, for example, is a very good merit for any leader to have, as it makes botching and failing much, much less likely, particularly for very hard tasks.
 
1)One: we have a population of people, not an army.
Counter an entire 1 billion of those people study warfare, and combat as life purpose.
Two: You have shifted the goal posts from talking about people in general to now talking about top tier sorcerers.
For the masses VEE is useless sure I agree. But we are not limited to the masses anymore, now we have top tier people that with a VEE boost can start discovering the true secrets of realty.
Three: Respectfully, you have a habit of making wild claims with no textual backing.
Where do you get this assertion that there are plenty of 5 dots Path Sorcery people in our Hell?
Are you just making assumptions based on population?

Do you know if our culture has promoted multidisciplinary competence instead of monomaniacal focus?
For all you know there's a ton of people with Path 3/4 in a dozen sorcerer and psychic numina, instead of Path 5 in one.
We have an advanced magictech civilization that is beyond earth ablities. And GM has confirmed they practice path magic, and have people that have done so for hundreds of year. Just look at that scholar from a few updates ago. And for examples that prove we have people that have 5 dots in the path see the active teleportation array that link all the cites and the capitals. Something that requires 5 dots in the conveyance path to even attempt to build.
I mean, how many people would even bother if there are spirits available to allow you to cheat the process?

The fact that something is possible in theory doesnt mean thats how its worked out in practice.
Notice how there are no wizards in the Brass Courts, despite a lot of humans being here?
Or it could be an something that they could not develop do to not existing until six hours ago.
Not sure how they'll work here.
And it doesnt change the fundamental bottleneck where you can only use VEE once a year per person.
Again we can VEE the people that can summon people up to 6 dots, and then they can start pulling who ever we need out for us
The US Army does not keep its best stuff in Washington DC. Manportable or otherwise.
We have no reason to assume that the Courts would keep the best military gear in the capital city.
Let alone the kind of covert stuff that you need for operating in another society.
Washington in not surrounded for hundred of miles in all directions by wastes where monstrosities can pop out looking for tasty mortal snack at any time. Nor does it have tribes of primitives under that could tunnel up from below.
Uju32 just quoted the charm to demonstrate that you can't do that though. You can give merits that make magic easier or add other benefits, but you can't raise someone's path/sphere rating directly.
You can buy multiple dot merits, not paths and backgrounds, that is one dot at a time.
GM confirmed that upping a person path rating by one in the table. And when the person already has 5 dots the jump to 6 AKA legendary status is a big deal. Double so since they can take the VEE granted knowledge and just teach others. VEE is usless for the comman man, but a godsend for those already great.
 
For the idea of *we have nowhere to put our spies or other allies we take with us*, we absolutely do have a place, send them to the Last station and while we're there, we can also talk to our little haven what they think about going to hell... err, I mean, going to a cyberpunk city full of demons... changing place, what they think of changing place.

[x] Yog
They don't speak the language, understand the culture, or have an emotional grasp of the permanence of death here yet.

It'd be like dropping giant sapient Martian spiders into Chicago right after they met their first human. They're going to stand out, and probably cause an incident without meaning to.

They won't be able to accomplish anything but cause trouble until Molly and the FCF government at large has a direction for them and the latter has had time to digest a first contact package.

Single digit numbers of sapient machine spirits can do that job as good or better without as much risk.
VEE has been discussed so much at this point that I can very much tell it is overhyped, one thing for five motes once a year an army doesn't make, no matter how you approach it. Too costly, too restricted.
That's because it's not for making armies. It's for making deals. You're supposed to use it to tempt and subvert people, basically the infernal version of making Akuma.

It's all about being a good tempter by getting the right bait at the right time. Recall that for people with decent magical talent agelessness is on the table as a deal. We don't lack for options to make really tempting offers with.

In our case we can also abuse it to make powerful minions more powerful, but generally the charm is supposed to hook people who bring something to the table already instead of providing booster seats.

We don't operate like a standard infernal, so we wouldn't really be wandering around screwing people over with it, but we can still use it to pay out hilariously good signing bonuses or pay for the services of more mercenary entities if we can gain enough trust.

Given Molly's socials I'm reasonably confident that 30 minutes alone with a someone like Binder would net us a deal that would end like a Brother's Grimm story if he made it with anyone else.
 
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