I'm unsure a war for north korea would be a bad thing the only reason it'd be totally bad is because of nuclear capabilities. But, you cannot get much worse than systematic prison camps and mass starvation. Like sure do whatever else but like arguing a war is the worse thing that could happen there is kinda eh.
so offhand guys where when we eventually try do we want our people to live on earth when they come out. Because as much as fake ids help we cant just make thousands of new humans appear much less supernatural creatures. Think we could buy a big ass plot of land in the middle of nowhere and work from there, maybe really really renovate under chicago, anything else?
Please tell me more about how this is all to help the poor people of North Korea.
Showing up and conquering a country to use towards our own ends by pulling a Yama King tier evil plot would just cause an explosion of secondary issues to collide with the problems already present in the area.
Eh war is really really terrible. There is about no situation that a war can't make worse. We would be trying for a coup hopefully an almost bloodless* one.
We could bring in an army from our hell, but I would consider that sort of mass fighting and therefore death a lose condition.
[X] Introduce yourself as you are, as one who does not know them well but wishes to, as one who is young by the measure of this world, but wishing rule justly and wisely for the benefit of all
-[X] ATB, Leadership excellency
-[X] Stunt: Pausing for a moment between heartbeats, you catch your visage reflected in one of the numerous camera-eyes upon you. A being of terrible awe and glory perched imperiously upon her throne, clad in basalt and brass, her face hidden by the a war helmet. The next words you say are the most important words of your life so far, you realize. Who do you want to be? You shift your posture ever so slightly, making yourself look more approachable, less of a threat. Feeling the ever present ferocious storms of your realm sway in tune with your words, you speak: "Hello to all of you. I am Molly Carpenter, the one you have been waiting for, and from the throne at the center of this Creation I welcome you all to the first day of the rest of our lives. Our, because we are in this together. As you will learn in the formal releases to come, I am not perfect, nor omniscient. I cannot say that I fully grasp the enormity and the depth of our world yet. What I can state and vow is that I want to learn about all of you, and that I will do my best by you, and to the benefit of us all. It is with this in mind that I declare my first decree - for as long as I live, balefire cancer will no longer torment those under my aegis"
Please tell me more about how this is all to help the poor people of North Korea.
Showing up and conquering a country to use towards our own ends by pulling a Yama King tier evil plot would just cause an explosion of secondary issues to collide with the problems already present in the area.
Hey we don't need to do it or nothing I'm not the one to suggest the hell stuff in the first place. But, like killing the leaders and letting whatever civil war develops after I cannot be sure it won't be worse but I'd bet it would probably be better especially if the south interfered.
Edit:also I never actually mentioned this as being to help the people of north korea I first mentioned where would we even dump an army of combatants and non combatants and someone mentioned conquering a country. So I brought up North Korea as like one of the least morally reprehensible place to topple.
[X] Introduce yourself as you are, as one who does not know them well but wishes to, as one who is young by the measure of this world, but wishing rule justly and wisely for the benefit of all
-[X] ATB, Leadership excellency
-[X] Stunt: Pausing for a moment between heartbeats, you catch your visage reflected in one of the numerous camera-eyes upon you. A being of terrible awe and glory perched imperiously upon her throne, clad in basalt and brass, her face hidden by the a war helmet. The next words you say are the most important words of your life so far, you realize. Who do you want to be? You shift your posture ever so slightly, making yourself look more approachable, less of a threat. Feeling the ever present ferocious storms of your realm sway in tune with your words, you speak: "Hello to all of you. I am Molly Carpenter, the one you have been waiting for, and from the throne at the center of this Creation I welcome you all to the first day of the rest of our lives. Our, because we are in this together. As you will learn in the formal releases to come, I am neither perfect, nor omniscient in spite of my considerable power. I cannot say that I fully grasp the enormity and the depth of our world yet. What I can state and vow is that I want to learn about all of you, and that I will do my best by you, and to the benefit of us all. It is with this in mind that I declare my first decree - for as long as I live, balefire cancer will no longer torment those under my aegis"
Not actually true. Just ask the Red Court how that turned out for them.
Also worth noting that when Winter has successes they wont make the news, because they would have been quietly handled.
Its the failures that show up onscreen.
One of the big issues with being the setting heavyweight and load-bearing pillar is that everyone would-be setting arsonist or empire maker comes gunning for you, and specialize their shit to fuck with yours.
The Red Court did it. The Fomor did it. Nemesis has been trying it for centuries.
Even Ethniu scheduled her attack for mid-summer, specifically when Mab and Winter would be weakest.
And the Outsiders contributed their part by staging increased attacks at the Outer Gates, ensuring that she had to split her forces and attention. Notice how Lea wasnt at Chicago; someone had to command at the Gates.
The Red Court's genocide was primarily due to Dresden being in the right place at the right time, with the literal help of God. That shit sure as hell wasn't guaranteed and certainly wasn't because of any master plan devised by Mab.
The failures that have shown up came pretty close to disaster y'know. When the fate of the world is at stake and the current protector has the kind of showing we've seen, it's long past time to ask questions about the effectiveness of said protector. It's a common refrain from dictators that questioning the state's failures is treason for a reason; the Winter Court might be protecting reality, but nothing we've seen would suggest a more humane method couldn't be more effective.
Ethniu honestly didn't need to bother, given she pimp-slapped Titania at mid-summer without the Eye. Hell, Titania could cancel the eye because it was mid-summer and she could make it rain, but Mab at mid-winter wouldn't be able to do the same, given the metaphysics involved in that attack. Not to mention, once again, Mab not knowing how to fight people stronger than her as opposed to bullying those weaker than her. Hell, I'm glad she wasn't at the Gates, 'cause from what we've seen of her tactical skills, she probably would've commanded her forces into a defeat at the Gates to those staged pressure attacks.
1) The Red Court infected her Lady-daughter and handmaiden, and brought Outsiders into Faerie. Genocided.
2)Nicodemus masterminded a major breach of the Accords and kidnapped one of its accredited mediators.
She engineered his wife and confederate into abandoning him, he had to murder his own daughter, condemning her to a Greek Hell, and his reputation and supernatural contacts are in tatters. And he didnt even get most of what he was after.
3)The Fomor outright declared war, and killed the head of an accredited Accord member before her.
Their nobility and resources were gutted at Chicago; their Titan imprisoned, their military forces comprehensively defeated and slaughtered on the retreat, their king only barely surviving by killing his own people, and even previously neutralish factions now resolutely hostile.
Seems to me Mab's accounts are fairly balanced. And pretty promptly by Immortal standards.
People get hits in, but she is always the last person standing, even when, as with Ethniu, the enemy is personally beefier.
The only people who get repeat swings are Outsiders.
1. Red Court got her daughter and number 2 infected by Outsiders. 'Nuff said, we need a new guardian for reality. (Martin was the real mastermind behind the genocide, and we have no proof whatsoever Mab did anything more than send Leanansidhe and Odin to help the brawl)
2. Mab calls in Harry, who clocks in and gets shit done. This shows Mab can recognize the protagonist and understand that experience doesn't matter for immortals when they have to go against plot armor, but doesn't exactly speak well to her ability to personally oppose the Denarians. She can call in favors, but anyone with the power and influence of a Faerie Queen will have the opportunity to accrue favors. Not to mention Harry's favors were the result of him being an absolute idiot when bargaining in his youth.
3. The Fomor came within a hairsbreadth of annihilating everybody who's signed the Accords save one Dragon. Divine intervention, plot armor, and Ethniu being nearly as much an idiot as Mab resulted in things coming out okay-ish. When you gotta depend on God to help make ends meet and avoid a painful death, I can't really say you're a mastermind at balancing the sheets. Mab was totally dependent on luck in Battle Ground given how any one mistake would've collapsed the whole house of cards, none of which was in her control. Ever heard of a Xanatos Gambit? Clearly, Mab hasn't.
Ethniu was a Titan, an Old God who hadnt spent enough time in the real world to be depowered by the White God's rules.
Explicit Word of Jim is that the people who created the Faerie Courts did not expect her to duel a Titan, let alone at mid-summer in the real world. Her doing so was Mab going above and beyond.
On top of that Ethniu was rocking epic gear in her mordite alloy armor and her artifact superweapon.
Yet Mab's battle plan still beat her.
Mab just used herself as bait to set Ethniu up.
And to be clear, Mab's alliance won that fight against Ethniu without Mab having to pull forces off the Gates
And with Ferrovax sitting on his hands in the NeverNever.
Ethniu was an idiot and not a warrior, but was still stronger than everybody else combined for no damn reason. Odin gains power from being Santa Claus, who the hell's ever heard of Ethniu? Not to mention, it's complete fanon that the White God's rules depower gods; considering everybody IC decided to dogpile Ethniu on sight, the idea that this was at the height of her power and they could just wait until she gets nerfed calls into question everybody's intelligence. It's not as if Mab gives a shit about protecting Chicago, so why didn't she just wait if Ethniu would actually get debuffed? 'Cause Ethniu ain't no bitch and no nerf was incoming. Odin was just an idiot for giving up power to still be able to intervene in reality, considering how much power Ethniu had and how much intervening she was doing (Hint: it was a lot). If the White God was gonna wait until she killed off everybody on her debuffed level to actually debuff her, that seems pretty odd to me.
Ethniu had epic gear and a superweapon.
Mab's plan was to smash her face into the superweapon that could be dodged or shut off, and kick back and let everyone else break their bones on unbreakable armor.
Not exactly a good plan.
The reason Ethniu lost wasn't because she just couldn't handle Mab's Megamind 3000 IQ Battle Plan. She lost to Marcone's last minute Super Denarian mode combined with Dresden finally calling out Demonsreach. Which, had Ethniu a single brain cell, she could've prevented by killing Dresden at any earlier point. Given how little protection Mab gave Dresden and how she never told him "if you die we're fucked", I really wouldn't call this win Mab's.
If Molly went up against Ethniu alone, she would body us. If we brought backup, she would body us and our army.
If we brought an army and the Fae Queens and Odin and the Erlking, she would body all of us simultaneously; even though infernal power is the only other thing that can get through her armor besides divine power, the evidence is that she soaks and regenerates aggravated damage under combat conditions.
I suspect that even with stage 2 shintai and E5, she would still win, though we'd at least survive her victory.
We would need preptime, Exalted Sorcery and Exalted Craft to stand a reasonable chance of victory.
That or taking her on somewhere we have home ground advantage.
I wanted a fiat-backed prison in our Hell precisely because I was worried about that sort of scenario.
You shitting me? Ethniu had hands, but she was only slightly smarter than everybody else fighting her, who all left their immortal experience and tactical expertise in the last couple novels. Her Eye can be dodged and her invincible armor can A) be cut apart by the swords and B) doesn't protect her from getting her ankles broken. Just break her bones yo instead of trying to break her armor like everybody tried to do.
Better yet, just stand on Demonsreach and dare her to come at you. I'll put 50/50 odds she actually jumps into that cage match, and even if she'd put up a fight when not exhausted Alfred plus Molly probably have more brains between the two? of them than was being displayed by all the immortals in Battle Ground combined (apart of Titania's Rainstorm I suppose)
1) Its her job to guard the Gates.
Its not her job to prevent Outsider infiltrators, especially since any mortal with a smidgen of magic can summon single or small amounts of Outsiders into reality with the right ritual, bypassing the Outer Gates.
All those Outsiders the Red Court are using in combat?
Had to be summoned by mortal magic-users. When Lord Raith was sabotaging Genosa's porn movie production with an Outsider magic ritual? It was female sorceresses working the magic rituals to murder staff.
Only mortals with mortal magic have the authority to let them into reality that way.
Even at the Gates, its the job of a mortal wizard, Rashid the Gatekeeper, to scan incoming Fae for infiltrators. The title Rashid bears has not been fully explained in canon thus far, but I doubt it was chosen at random.
The suggestion that infiltrators are Mab's job and hers alone isnt true.
2)Not quite how it works.
Canon Molly and canon Sarissa were both prepared to hold Fae Mantles, just in case; Sarissa by Mab, and Molly by both Lea and (unwittingly) Harry.
Lily is allegedly the only time that a Mantle has gone to someone without predesignation as a potential heir, and even Lily was first sheltered and partly raised by the Summer Knight, then prepared by the then-Summer Lady to hold a major Fae Mantle, so it didnt exactly jump at random.
3)Not really true.
There's a reason that Molly was picked as canon Winter Lady to replace Maeve as next in line to Mab, instead of just random Fae lady out in the wilds.
1. The Gates prevent armies of Outsiders from storming into reality. The Red Court summoned armies of Outsiders to help destroy the White Council, a protector of reality, with no aid from Winter in sight. Mab ain't doing as much as she could as a protector, because she's also cruel and dismissive of humanity as a species and as a value. All I'm saying in there are better protectors for reality than what she's shown.
2. Kinda how it works? I'm not saying grab any random pixie, but clearly there ain't that much preventing the replacement of Knights and Ladies and Queens as a concept. If whoever made the Courts did so in order to help defend reality against the Outside, I doubt they did so with the intention of making the leaders irreplaceable keystones that would bring everything down if they got ganked. The presence of a line of succession does sort of imply that succession is possible and even expected, after all.
3. Molly was picked because she was the closest magically powerful female, honestly. Her mindset was pretty far from Winter at the time and was hardly suitable given she was actually being molded to be the Summer Lady. That Mab thought she was still suitable for being Winter Lady implies that whatever regulations govern the Mantles, they're not as stringent nor demanding as you would think.
We dont know precisely what role Mother Winter plays in Winter. Or Mother Summer for that matter; its unstated thus far.
Executive actions however appear to be mostly in Mab's domain; Fae Royalty appear to have limits about their roles and their ability to give each other orders.
If Mab could arbitarily order Maeve around, Nemesis-possession would have been less of an issue.
But as far as I can recall, word of Jim is that yes, Mab can d. She doesnt want to, and Titania would move to stop her anyway, but she could. Certainly in Ghost Story, Winter came early to Chicago and stayed until late May just because she was apparently spending a lot of, if not most of her spare time on Demonreach helping keep Dresden's body alive.
Again, while the ability itself sounds and honestly is quite impressive, it doesn't change the fact that if she chose to do so, quite a lot of unhappy individuals would gang up on her and kill her dead, not helped by the fact that said ability isn't useful in a fight. It's a deterrent more than anything, which is why it's unlikely it'll be relevant for a long while.
To be fair to Butcher?
Peace Talks/Battlegrounds was his first DF book after a six year hiatus(Skin Game was in 2014, while PT/BG were in 2020), and he was having to write an urban fantasy book in something mostly like the real world into a high fantasy extended battle sequence.
He did write the 6-book Alera sequence, so he does have some experience with high fantasy.
Im expecting some clumsiness with the next book as well, given that we're looking at another extended hiatus.
I wouldn't call this high fantasy, tbh. Nothing we saw in Battle Ground really eclipsed the boundaries of urban fantasy, power-wise. Which was honestly my biggest issue with it: after an entire series of books building up the inhuman power and might of Winter (not the Fomor, they literally came out of left field with zero buildup), it all ends in a rather confusing anti-climax. He doesn't even have the decency to have the immortals show off their experience in lieu of raw power; no, as @BronzeTongue put it, everybody in Battle Ground acts like an idiot. Every character felt more like they belonged in a YA novel than any book Jim's written before.
The Red Court's genocide was primarily due to Dresden being in the right place at the right time, with the literal help of God. That shit sure as hell wasn't guaranteed and certainly wasn't because of any master plan devised by Mab.
The failures that have shown up came pretty close to disaster y'know. When the fate of the world is at stake and the current protector has the kind of showing we've seen, it's long past time to ask questions about the effectiveness of said protector. It's a common refrain from dictators that questioning the state's failures is treason for a reason; the Winter Court might be protecting reality, but nothing we've seen would suggest a more humane method couldn't be more effective.
Ethniu honestly didn't need to bother, given she pimp-slapped Titania at mid-summer without the Eye. Hell, Titania could cancel the eye because it was mid-summer and she could make it rain, but Mab at mid-winter wouldn't be able to do the same, given the metaphysics involved in that attack. Not to mention, once again, Mab not knowing how to fight people stronger than her as opposed to bullying those weaker than her. Hell, I'm glad she wasn't at the Gates, 'cause from what we've seen of her tactical skills, she probably would've commanded her forces into a defeat at the Gates to those staged pressure attacks.
1. Red Court got her daughter and number 2 infected by Outsiders. 'Nuff said, we need a new guardian for reality. (Martin was the real mastermind behind the genocide, and we have no proof whatsoever Mab did anything more than send Leanansidhe and Odin to help the brawl)
2. Mab calls in Harry, who clocks in and gets shit done. This shows Mab can recognize the protagonist and understand that experience doesn't matter for immortals when they have to go against plot armor, but doesn't exactly speak well to her ability to personally oppose the Denarians. She can call in favors, but anyone with the power and influence of a Faerie Queen will have the opportunity to accrue favors. Not to mention Harry's favors were the result of him being an absolute idiot when bargaining in his youth.
3. The Fomor came within a hairsbreadth of annihilating everybody who's signed the Accords save one Dragon. Divine intervention, plot armor, and Ethniu being nearly as much an idiot as Mab resulted in things coming out okay-ish. When you gotta depend on God to help make ends meet and avoid a painful death, I can't really say you're a mastermind at balancing the sheets. Mab was totally dependent on luck in Battle Ground given how any one mistake would've collapsed the whole house of cards, none of which was in her control. Ever heard of a Xanatos Gambit? Clearly, Mab hasn't.
Ethniu was an idiot and not a warrior. Odin gains power from being Santa Claus, who the hell's ever heard of Ethniu? Not to mention, it's complete fanon that the White God's rules depower gods; considering everybody IC decided to dogpile Ethniu on sight, the idea that this was at the height of her power and they could just wait until she gets nerfed calls into question everybody's intelligence. It's not as if Mab gives a shit about protecting Chicago, so why didn't she just wait if Ethniu would actually get debuffed? 'Cause Ethniu ain't no bitch and no nerf was incoming. Odin was just an idiot for giving up power to still be able to intervene in reality, considering how much power Ethniu had and how much intervening she was doing. If the White God was gonna wait until she killed off everybody on her debuffed-level to actually debuff her, that seems pretty odd to me.
Ethniu had epic gear and a superweapon.
Mab's plan was to smash her face into the superweapon that could be dodged or shut off, and kick back and let everyone else break their bones on unbreakable armor.
Not exactly a good plan.
The reason Ethniu lost wasn't because she just couldn't handle Mab's Megamind 3000 IQ Battle Plan. She lost to Marcone's last minute Super Denarian mode combined with Dresden finally calling out Demonsreach. Which, had Ethniu a single brain cell, she could've prevented by killing Dresden at any earlier point. Given how little protection Mab gave Dresden and how she never told him "if you die we're fucked", I really wouldn't call this win Mab's.
You shitting me? Ethniu had hands, but she was only slightly smarter than everybody else fighting her, who all left their immortal experience and tactical expertise in the last couple novels. Her Eye can be dodged and her invincible armor can A) be cut apart by the swords and B) doesn't protect her from getting her ankles broken. Just break her bones yo instead of trying to break her armor like everybody tried to do.
Better yet, just stand on Demonsreach and dare her to come at you. I'll put 50/50 odds she actually jumps into that cage match, and even if she'd put up a fight when not exhausted Alfred plus Molly probably have more brains between the two? of them than was being displayed by all the immortals in Battle Ground combined (apart of Titania's Rainstorm I suppose)
1. The Gates prevent armies of Outsiders from storming into reality. The Red Court summoned armies of Outsiders to help destroy the White Council, a protector of reality, with no aid from Winter in sight. Mab ain't doing as much as she could as a protector, because she's also cruel and dismissive of humanity as a species and as a value. All I'm saying in there are better protectors for reality than what she's shown.
2. Kinda how it works? I'm not saying grab any random pixie, but clearly there ain't that much preventing the replacement of Knights and Ladies and Queens as a concept. If whoever made the Courts did so in order to help defend reality against the Outside, I doubt they did so with the intention of making the leaders irreplaceable keystones that would bring everything down if they got ganked. The presence of a line of succession does sort of imply that succession is possible and even expected, after all.
3. Molly was picked because she was the closest magically powerful female, honestly. Her mindset was pretty far from Winter at the time and was hardly suitable given she was actually being molded to be the Summer Lady. That Mab thought she was still suitable for being Winter Lady implies that whatever regulations govern the Mantles, they're not as stringent nor demanding as you would think.
Again, while the ability itself sounds and honestly is quite impressive, it doesn't change the fact that if she chose to do so, quite a lot of unhappy individuals would gang up on her and kill her dead, not helped by the fact that said ability isn't useful in a fight. It's a deterrent more than anything, which is why it's unlikely it'll be relevant for a long while.
I wouldn't call this high fantasy, tbh. Nothing we saw in Battle Ground really eclipsed the boundaries of urban fantasy, power-wise. Which was honestly my biggest issue with it: after an entire series of books building up the inhuman power and might of Winter (not the Fomor, they literally came out of left field with zero buildup), it all ends in a rather confusing anti-climax. He doesn't even have the decency to have the immortals show off their experience in lieu of raw power; no, as @BronzeTongue put it, everybody in Battle Ground acts like an idiot. Every character felt more like they belonged in a YA novel than any book Jim's written before.
Molly was a female who was directly taught by said fae so there is a line of thought and succession. Was also technically adopted by their standards as Dresden was the leanensidhes godson and the responsibility of nurturing Molly after Dresden went to them once he died. So there was a link. Said line was transferred to Mab as well.
Also I wouldn't say zero build up of the fomor they were talked about but basically a no factor for basically ghost stories to skingames.
Honestly, if DP chooses to just ignore Peace Talks and Battle Ground, I'd be all for it.
But I don't want Uju to go around talking up Mab when what we've seen has vehemently disproved her claims of being memetic Dr. Doom; Winter is quite fallible and Mab personally can claim to have balanced the books solely because of plot armor, as what we've seen her do IC is at direct odds with what others think she can do, IC and OOC.
Hey we don't need to do it or nothing I'm not the one to suggest the hell stuff in the first place. But, like killing the leaders and letting whatever civil war develops after I cannot be sure it won't be worse but I'd bet it would probably be better especially if the south interfered.
Edit:also I never actually mentioned this as being to help the people of north korea I first mentioned where would we even dump an army of combatants and non combatants and someone mentioned conquering a country. So I brought up North Korea as like one of the least morally reprehensible place to topple.
We could liberate North Korea and just unite it with South Korea, but ironically that would be harder to do with our skill set then conquest.
The reason we can take over North Korea is that if we do it in our Shintai form (which we can put on freely in our kingdom) we are a demon invader and they don't have anywhere to point their nukes. So we can basically take over the country at our leisure after the first quick decapitation strike. Well as if we try and liberate the place there is a good chance at some hidden contingency we missed shoots a nuke at Seoul.
We could liberate North Korea and just unite it with South Korea, but ironically that would be harder to do with our skill set then conquest.
The reason we can take over North Korea is that if we do it in our Shintai form (which we can put on freely in our kingdom) we are a demon invader and they don't have anywhere to point their nukes. So we can basically take over the country at our leisure after the first quick decapitation strike. Well as if we try and liberate the place there is a good chance at some hidden contingency we missed shoots a nuke at Seoul.
Ok with how vulnerable NK seems to be to supernatural invasion it must have some faction that has already taken it over or in the process of taking it over. Black Court?
protagonist privilege; just the number of times he's been hit over the head by everything from a baseball bat to a fucking tire iron should have left him a vegetable
No, they just heal right. And those injuries individually aren't that impressive and how many times it happens doesn't matter since he heals perfectly.
Ok with how vulnerable NK seems to be to supernatural invasion it must have some faction that has already taken it over or in the process of taking it over. Black Court?
Taking over NK is throwing good money after bad. It been mismanagement right into the ground. NK used to be more far prosperous then the south, but 50+ years of total mismanagement, has ruined it incredibility fast. Relevant NK has like 80%+ or more of the combined North and south's natural resources, but has a massively smaller economy.
Frankly taking it over would cost more then you would get for some couple of hundred years. And even then you are likely to lose it all anyway, when your control is going to the contested by the much stronger SK, plus anyone they can convince to help. About the only reason to take NK over is to help the people. But who in the supernatural side would care about the mortals.
Ok with how vulnerable NK seems to be to supernatural invasion it must have some faction that has already taken it over or in the process of taking it over. Black Court?
Black Court would make a ton of sense. They power up explicitly via murder so...
Of course, there are probably plenty of others who fit, but Black Court fits in lots and lots of ways, maybe backed by other supernaturals.
That said, if all you want North Korea for is to have some clay to call your own and amass dudes from Mollyland, there are better places. Ironically, several probably already count as places of desolation. The Bit Tawil desert between Egypt and Sudan is unclaimed, as are parts of Antarctica. Or, you know, nearly anywhere in the ocean.
After watching a bunch of videos on North Korea I am convinced that if we to do anything with NK China will intervene in any way they can which complicates the issues massively considering the Jade Court.
Also if an Infernal wants to destroy the world they don't have to work all that hard.
That said, if all you want North Korea for is to have some clay to call your own and amass dudes from Mollyland, there are better places. Ironically, several probably already count as places of desolation. The Bit Tawil desert between Egypt and Sudan is unclaimed, as are parts of Antarctica. Or, you know, nearly anywhere in the ocean.
I know that the limiting factor is needing to sacrifice a minimum of 10 humans*. It's easy to say that saving the people of NK is a good and that it's impossible to do without killing at least 10 people that totally deserve it. In which case waste not want not.
Trying to establish somewhere else means that we have to go out of our way to find people to sacrifice which isn't as morally clear cut.
*Or a single supernatural who isn't a COD like a wizard. However unlike humans who can be absolutely terrible without registering as a COD evil supernaturals seem to register very quickly.
[X] Introduce yourself as you are, as one who does not know them well but wishes to, as one who is young by the measure of this world, but wishing rule justly and wisely for the benefit of all
-[X] ATB, Leadership excellency
-[X] Stunt: Pausing for a moment between heartbeats, you catch your visage reflected in one of the numerous camera-eyes upon you. A being of terrible awe and glory perched imperiously upon her throne, clad in basalt and brass, her face hidden by the a war helmet. The next words you say are the most important words of your life so far, you realize. Who do you want to be? You shift your posture ever so slightly, making yourself look more approachable, less of a threat. Feeling the ever present ferocious storms of your realm sway in tune with your words, you speak: "Hello to all of you. I am Molly Carpenter, the one you have been waiting for an age, and also just a few second, and from the throne at the center of this Creation I welcome you all to the first day of the rest of our lives. Like you I am both ancient beyond reckoning, yet I am also newly born, as you are. Our path will be the one we forge into the unknown lands, of the future together. And together, we will dance in and out of ten billion years until the stars themselves grow cold and weary, and our thoughts turn again to the beginning.
Change a bit of the stunt to play into the religions angle of the hell, rearranged a small bit, and added some stuff form the Alpha Centauri game Transcendence Victory as it just fit so well.
I am now imagining pulling a heist to kidnap 10 death row inmates that we have used our crown on to independently verify their guilt.
I know that it is never going to happen no way a vote to spend 16 XP on such a morally troubling charm happens when there are so many other things to spend XP on.
@DragonParadox, one for tomorrow; but does our Hell have Pentex style (techno?)sorcerous rituals to bind devils into mortals to create semi-standardised fomor?
Note that for humans, it doesn't matter if they're creatures of darkness or not…
It would take about 1.4 million human sacrifices to convert the entire Earth into Molly's Hell starting on the surface, or half that starting and the centre.
Molly would probably find that objectionable though.
Yes it does, the process is basically using devils to do an end run on the issue of cybernetic integration and power, that is why they are so common
Yep, it's 1.4 million sacrifices to the good old fashioned 'remake the world in my image' villain plot. There is a reason that Exaltation was not unearthed sooner by those who... knew what it was.
The Red Court's genocide was primarily due to Dresden being in the right place at the right time, with the literal help of God. That shit sure as hell wasn't guaranteed and certainly wasn't because of any master plan devised by Mab.
The failures that have shown up came pretty close to disaster y'know. When the fate of the world is at stake and the current protector has the kind of showing we've seen, it's long past time to ask questions about the effectiveness of said protector. It's a common refrain from dictators that questioning the state's failures is treason for a reason; the Winter Court might be protecting reality, but nothing we've seen would suggest a more humane method couldn't be more effective.
Ethniu honestly didn't need to bother, given she pimp-slapped Titania at mid-summer without the Eye. Hell, Titania could cancel the eye because it was mid-summer and she could make it rain, but Mab at mid-winter wouldn't be able to do the same, given the metaphysics involved in that attack. Not to mention, once again, Mab not knowing how to fight people stronger than her as opposed to bullying those weaker than her. Hell, I'm glad she wasn't at the Gates, 'cause from what we've seen of her tactical skills, she probably would've commanded her forces into a defeat at the Gates to those staged pressure attacks.
1) Dont get it twisted.
Mab did not equip Dresden with the Winter Knight Mantle, and send along the Leanansidhe, her second in command and the third most powerful person in Winter, then point him at the Red Court by accident.
Odin and 12 other Odin-tier practitioners did not show up in time to be backup on Lea's signal by accident.
Odin did not arrange to teleport an army of not-tengu to the battlefield by accident.
If you dont believe me, ask Ebenezar:
Ebenezar blinked at me, then snorted. "Stupid, Hoss. Every time. Only so many blackhearted villains in the world, and they only get uppity on occasion. Stupid's everywhere, every day." "How'd Lea arrange a signal with you?" I asked. "That," Ebenezar said sourly. "On that score, Hoss, I think our elders ran their own game on us." "Elders?" He nodded down the stairs, where the tall figure with the metal-headed staff had begun creating another doorway out of green lightning. Once it was formed, the space beneath the arch shimmered, and all the hooded figures at the bottom of the stairs looked up at us.
I frowned and looked closer. Then I realized that the metal head of the staff was a blade, and that the tall man was holding a spear. Within the hood, I saw a black eye patch, a grizzled beard, and a brief, grim smile. He raised the spear to me in a motion that reminded me, somehow, of a fencer's salute. Then he turned and vanished into the gate. One by one, the other figures in grey began to follow him.
"Vadderung," I said.
Ebenezar grunted. "That's his name this time. He doesn't throw in often. When he does, he goes to the wall. And in my experience, it means things are about to get bad." He pursed his lips. "He doesn't give recognition like that lightly, Hoss."
"I talked to him a couple of days ago," I said. "He told me about the curse. Put the gun in my hand for me and showed me where to point it."
Ebenezar nodded. "He taught Merlin, you know. The original Merlin."
"How'd Merlin make out?" I asked.
"No one's sure," Ebenezar said. "But from his journals . . . he wasn't the kind to go in his sleep."
I snorted.
Very little that happened there was by accident.
He was put in that position by the machinations of subtle people with longterm planning. Mab among them.
2)Titania isnt the general that commands reality's defenses, Mab is. There's a reason for that.
It might just be that Ethniu, and whoever was pulling her strings, knew precisely what they were doing when they decided it was better to risk running into Titania at her most powerful than Mab at her most powerful.
Not that it stopped her getting beat.
1. Red Court got her daughter and number 2 infected by Outsiders. 'Nuff said, we need a new guardian for reality. (Martin was the real mastermind behind the genocide, and we have no proof whatsoever Mab did anything more than send Leanansidhe and Odin to help the brawl)
2. Mab calls in Harry, who clocks in and gets shit done. This shows Mab can recognize the protagonist and understand that experience doesn't matter for immortals when they have to go against plot armor, but doesn't exactly speak well to her ability to personally oppose the Denarians. She can call in favors, but anyone with the power and influence of a Faerie Queen will have the opportunity to accrue favors. Not to mention Harry's favors were the result of him being an absolute idiot when bargaining in his youth.
3. The Fomor came within a hairsbreadth of annihilating everybody who's signed the Accords save one Dragon. Divine intervention, plot armor, and Ethniu being nearly as much an idiot as Mab resulted in things coming out okay-ish. When you gotta depend on God to help make ends meet and avoid a painful death, I can't really say you're a mastermind at balancing the sheets. Mab was totally dependent on luck in Battle Ground given how any one mistake would've collapsed the whole house of cards, none of which was in her control. Ever heard of a Xanatos Gambit? Clearly, Mab hasn't.
1) And? You say this like its an impugnation on her competence.
Mab is not an absolute tyrant even in her own court, and other parties get to act, even people in her faction. She fixed Lea; she couldnt fix Maeve. She had a backup for that.
Furthermore, it took a thousand fucking years of plot and contrivance, and the cooperation of members of multiple factions on Earth who should have known better for Nemesis to pull even that off.
2) Picking the right tool is a skill.
Giving them the right resources, and the proper support, is a skill. Picking your timing is a skill.
Mab is a general; this sort of thing is in part, her raison d'etre.
3) Mab was clear about none of them being irreplaceable.
Ethniu was an idiot and not a warrior. Odin gains power from being Santa Claus, who the hell's ever heard of Ethniu? Not to mention, it's complete fanon that the White God's rules depower gods; considering everybody IC decided to dogpile Ethniu on sight, the idea that this was at the height of her power and they could just wait until she gets nerfed calls into question everybody's intelligence. It's not as if Mab gives a shit about protecting Chicago, so why didn't she just wait if Ethniu would actually get debuffed? 'Cause Ethniu ain't no bitch and no nerf was incoming. Odin was just an idiot for giving up power to still be able to intervene in reality, considering how much power Ethniu had and how much intervening she was doing. If the White God was gonna wait until she killed off everybody on her debuffed-level to actually debuff her, that seems pretty odd to me.
Ethniu had epic gear and a superweapon.
Mab's plan was to smash her face into the superweapon that could be dodged or shut off, and kick back and let everyone else break their bones on unbreakable armor.
Not exactly a good plan.
The reason Ethniu lost wasn't because she just couldn't handle Mab's Megamind 3000 IQ Battle Plan. She lost to Marcone's last minute Super Denarian mode combined with Dresden finally calling out Demonsreach. Which, had Ethniu a single brain cell, she could've prevented by killing Dresden at any earlier point. Given how little protection Mab gave Dresden and how she never told him "if you die we're fucked", I really wouldn't call this win Mab's.
1)Ethniu was mad, and a terrible general, or at least an uncaring one.
Thats not the same thing as being a bad soldier. Or that there wasnt a plan behind her choices.
We dont always get a villain monologue to tell us everything our enemy considered in their planning.
And for Mab, someone had to pull aggro at that point.
Just like for morale purposes someone had to demonstrate Ethniu wasnt invincible. Someone had to shake the Titan's confidence in herself and her plan.
Someone had to pay the price. Mab did. It didnt even stop her running coordination even when her body was down.
2) That is not how Dresdenverse magic works as far as we know IC and OOC.
Odin does not gain power from being Santa Claus, and faith does not translate to magic power in the Dresdenverse, else ascension rituals would involve raising international cults, not trying to eat ghosts.
Besides,Santa Claus did not show up to that fight; Odin did, on Sleipnir.
Mantles matter.
3) No, that is not true.
It was stated both in the book and in Words of Jim that the White God nerfed all characters that wanted to stay involved in the mortal world, and Ethniu evaded the server-wide patch by essentially retiring her player character by staying in the NeverNever.
And very few people knew she was still around.
4)The reason Ethniu lost is precisely because she couldnt handle Mab's Megamind 3000 IQ plan.
Do you think it was by accident that Mab sent Dresden to help Nicodemus break into Hades vault in Skin Game and to come into possession of the parts to assemble the Spear of Destiny?
Or that there were enough military-grade weapons in Chicago to equip a militia? Anti-tank missiles dont grow on trees.
Mab has been investing in contingencies for a long time.
You'll only see them if shit goes wrong.
You shitting me? Ethniu had hands, but she was only slightly smarter than everybody else fighting her, who all left their immortal experience and tactical expertise in the last couple novels. Her Eye can be dodged and her invincible armor can A) be cut apart by the swords and B) doesn't protect her from getting her ankles broken. Just break her bones yo instead of trying to break her armor like everybody tried to do.
Better yet, just stand on Demonsreach and dare her to come at you. I'll put 50/50 odds she actually jumps into that cage match, and even if she'd put up a fight when not exhausted Alfred plus Molly probably have more brains between the two? of them than was being displayed by all the immortals in Battle Ground combined (apart of Titania's Rainstorm I suppose)
There is no elegance in a close quarters firefight against a tank.
You pay the price to engage it when you can catch it.
Ethniu appears to heal aggravated damage in combat time, and to have wound penalty negation.
We see her do it in the aftermath of the Eye's backlash. And even with two Swords on the battlefield, noone thought they'd be able to kill her, just to bind her.
Please dont assume that literally everyone else involved here, from the Faerie Queens to the Knights to the Forest Person ubermage to Odin, literally have no idea of how to fight.
Ethniu knows precisely what Demonreach is. Why would she oblige you?
Go stand on it, and she'll burn Chicago in your absence.
Which is what she came to do.
1. The Gates prevent armies of Outsiders from storming into reality. The Red Court summoned armies of Outsiders to help destroy the White Council, a protector of reality, with no aid from Winter in sight. Mab ain't doing as much as she could as a protector, because she's also cruel and dismissive of humanity as a species and as a value. All I'm saying in there are better protectors for reality than what she's shown.
2. Kinda how it works? I'm not saying grab any random pixie, but clearly there ain't that much preventing the replacement of Knights and Ladies and Queens as a concept. If whoever made the Courts did so in order to help defend reality against the Outside, I doubt they did so with the intention of making the leaders irreplaceable keystones that would bring everything down if they got ganked. The presence of a line of succession does sort of imply that succession is possible and even expected, after all.
3. Molly was picked because she was the closest magically powerful female, honestly. Her mindset was pretty far from Winter at the time and was hardly suitable given she was actually being molded to be the Summer Lady. That Mab thought she was still suitable for being Winter Lady implies that whatever regulations govern the Mantles, they're not as stringent nor demanding as you would think.
1) Mab was dealing with a Nemesis infestation taking out her number two and leaving her incapable of multi-tasking as she normally would. That was kinda the point of the Red Court poisoning the Leanansidhe in Grave Peril; for most of the series Winter has been working with holes in their command chain fucking up their ability to respond properly.
And frankly, mortals breaking the Laws to reinforce the Red Court with Outsiders is also in the White Council's purview.
Not, strictly speaking, her job.
2)No it isnt. Our PoV character, the 30-something year old wizard called Harry Dresden barely knows how the world works save in broad strokes. The fact that we dont know what the qualifications are doesnt mean they dont exist.
Or that every new Queen doesnt invest in contingencies for their replacement as soon as they ascend to office.
3) Winter first expressed an interest in Molly back in Grave Peril when she was 13ish iirc, before the Vampire War started, and before the Leanansidhe was infested in the first place, and a year before she used magic for the first time.
Back then, Lea offered to exchange Amoracchius for Michael's first child.
After Harry died, she spent almost a year being trained by Lea, calling her Auntie and doing Ragged Lady duties in Chicago.
I doubt any of that was random. It seldom is when you are dealing with immortals.
Again, while the ability itself sounds and honestly is quite impressive, it doesn't change the fact that if she chose to do so, quite a lot of unhappy individuals would gang up on her and kill her dead, not helped by the fact that said ability isn't useful in a fight. It's a deterrent more than anything, which is why it's unlikely it'll be relevant for a long while.
1)Killing her after the fact doesnt change the fact that the deed is done.
2) You can count the number of people who could 1v1 Mab on both hands and still have fingers left over.
And thats with her out where you can get at her; if she was in her own territory, with her own armies, good luck.
There's a reason Titania taking her on is essentially a mutual kill at best.
I wouldn't call this high fantasy, tbh. Nothing we saw in Battle Ground really eclipsed the boundaries of urban fantasy, power-wise. Which was honestly my biggest issue with it: after an entire series of books building up the inhuman power and might of Winter (not the Fomor, they literally came out of left field with zero buildup), it all ends in a rather confusing anti-climax. He doesn't even have the decency to have the immortals show off their experience in lieu of raw power; no, as @BronzeTongue put it, everybody in Battle Ground acts like an idiot. Every character felt more like they belonged in a YA novel than any book Jim's written before.
Not even close. Like we would slit her from head to groin on the first round. The invincible armour will not protect her.
No, they just heal right. And those injuries individually aren't that impressive and how many times it happens doesn't matter since he heals perfectly.
1) Its still armor.
Our demonsword would still going to have to get through it, just like the Swords still had to get through it; all that being powered by divine or infernal magic means is that we get to ignore the invincibility tag.
And then we would still have to kill her through all the HLs and soak.
Like I pointed out, she appears to heal damage mid-combat, like a Garou, only that it appears to apply to Agg as well as bashing and lethal. Agg doesnt appear to heal fast, but thats the only saving grace.
At very best, think in terms of fighting one of those Antediluvians in the back of the ExWoD sourcebook.
Only this one doesnt need blood.
And its not like we want to find out if she can whip up a blessing that applies against Creatures of Darkness like Infernals, either.
2) He got hit in the head with a baseball bat in the very first book.
Thats a career ender for many people, just from cerebral trauma. And wizard healing isnt that fast; it means you heal eventually, not accelerated healing. Too many people think that Hollywood is a reasonable depiction of how injuries work.
