fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
Maeve is such a bad winter lady that I half suspect that if we offered to pass on her mantel without killing her Mab might jump at the chance.
Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
- Location
- washington
Good chances the mantle literally makes them like that eventually. So a new winter lady is likely to be more competent for at least a decade well mostly maeve at least knows what their supposed to do and the way the court works. She just is bratty about it and refuses to do her work a lot.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
Canon Molly was apparently better at the job.
- Location
- washington
well yeah shes willing to actually work as where maeve is well a brat. No idea what maeve used to be like though before she got the mantle and it influenced her over the years. Shit changes people. I was just mentioning yeah a new winter lady would most likely be more competent maybe less skilled and have less knowledge though. More competent for sure though at least for a while.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
It seems old to me if the influence of the mantle of the winter lady made people worse at the job of being the winter lady, but maybe the makers were dumb.
- Location
- washington
Depends on if they had a choice like I doubt all the things that come with mantles are positive. Maeve is the lady, mab is the queen those come with their own connotations. Not to mention mantles can make you more evil, cold, violent, dark, etc etc. Same reason a summer mantle could make one more passionate.
Edit: I mean one example of their positions not always working for the best towards their roles Mab cannot kill maeve even though she is nemisis infected even if she wanted to not directly. A winter knight can though or you know an opposing player. They come with rules and associated emotions and such well at least certain mantles do we know there are a lot of mantles after all. a lot a lot.
Last edited:
- Location
- Germany
Mab went very much out of her way to make sure that Maeve became the Lady, in this story at least, not sure about canon.
Maybe after this time she doesn't want that anymore, but I doubt it.
Being the Lady, Maeve is both immortal and around her, which are both things that I believe Mab wishes for her daughters to be.
*Edit*
* I think that *Jesus Christ would not be the best example. Him dying was a direct choice not because of the crucifixion * from what I remember*
* An example(bad) *
He said "It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost" from Jhon 19:30
It's a very different situation than a temporary grace-less angel.
*To me the comparison speaks for the opposing veiw point not yours. I do now understand where you were coming from.*
Last edited:
- Location
- washington
religion is full of mysticism and symbolism you can make an argument for a hundred different things. Not even mentioning there is more than one bible really. Not to get too much into religion but come on.
Maeve having a body count is kind of... business as usual. It is normal for her and truth be told normal for high ranking Winter Fey more broadly. The issue Mab might have is if it's a larger body count than usual and in a sustained manner.
One thing Molly is not sure is to what extent the more senior of the triad Mother to Queen or Queen to Lady can even command the more junior. Obviously they have some authority, but their authority is in different domains and the good functioning of the court requires that all of them do their jobs, not the jobs of their peers. Given the fey and oaths the system might have very little give to it... and given the nature of Winter it might just assume that any less than effective ruler would be disposed of by the ones above, which of course Mab would not do to her daughter. This has the potential to be a mess, happily it is not Molly's mess and she can choose whether or not to get involved in it.
- Location
- washington
wasn't it basically stated the queen literally can't just kill the lady? Directly that is? Like I'm sure she doesn't want to in the first place as much of a cold bitch as she is there is a very very very small smidgen of humanity still in Mab.
But the Knight can including at the command of the Queen. Mab not having a functional Knight is also very much not intended one assumes.
- Location
- washington
I did say directly mind you also not that this matters much I think the knight roles came a bit later. Could be wrong but we at least know the knight roles were shaped by the queens maybe not even the first queens and their as far as I know meant to give more leeway since fae especially those with their own mantles rules can't always act. Along with a few specific uses like potentially murdering compromised ladies and other stuff. Word of Jim for example the erlking could make a knight like figure it'd take him a lot more power than it'd be worth though and hes not exactly on the same level as the queens as far as the fuel needed for that. So its likely the queens made them. So there have definitely been periods where there is no knight I assume they almost always try to remedy that though.
Last edited:
Would there ever be a point where the fey courts would not need/want a mortal fixer? I don't think so, in which case it makes sense for the concept of mortal investiture to be there from the start.
Thanks, corrected.
I mean, do you really want to use that analogy? Jesus got resurrected, and was clearly a part of Holy Trinity at all times, rather than becoming it after death. In exalted term that was Primordial YHWH sending his humaniform jouten to Earth in order to enact certain rituals, which included body death, but not soul death.
I mean all those, and actually more, applied to Nemesis inside Maeve. Lash is contained by the Rules at least somewhat, unlike Nemesis, so the chances of her being able to do mental harm to Harry are lower than Nemesis's to Maeve. Lash is almost guaranteed to be physically weaker than Nemesis, so we have a better chance of fighting her. And Lash has lower chances of being able to talk to Lasciel than Nemesis has of talking with, well, greater He-Who-Walks-Beside - the latter is a hivemind, after all.
My point is, I see meta reason, but in-story, since we exorcised Nemesis from Maeve, the consistent thing would be to organize an ambush on Harry, and exorcise Lash from him. Possibly use Mab as a backup to Michael to put Lash down reliably. Fairly sure that Mab could take Lash, whatever Lash is - an imprint on Harry's mind or Lasciel's subsoul.
It's almost certain that Mab would seclude her for reeducation for some time. After that? Lots of social against her to reform her. I am fairly sure this event would shake her, a lot.
Very good point about hun and po soul components.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
That would cost us a Mab favor.
Yes, I am ok with that. Using a favor obtained by saving someone's mind and soul to save someone's mind and soul is a very good equal exchange. We are doing the exorcism instead of shanking Maeve on Mab's orders for one reason only: Mab cares about Maeve not as a Winter Lady but as a daughter. Mab knows (has to know) that Maeve is not good at her job, and coldly pragmatic decision would be to swap her for someone better suited for it. She isn't doing that. So, either using one of the favors, or bargaining separately for a backup to handle Harry seems reasonable. I mean, SRE is useful for more than Nemesis. We could do mantle swapping without murdering previous hosts.
The issues I have with not telling Harry are manifold:
1) It's too meta for me. Lash here is in different circumstances than she was in canon. We cannot rely on her being subverted. At the very least, I wouldn't, not without us applying exalted-grade social attacks to her consistently somehow. Harry has heroic willpower, but, as I said, the situation is different from canon.
2) If we are going by meta reasons, as long as we don't tell Harry about SRE, we can't use it to cure half-reds (it should apply), and reunite Harry with his daughter.
1) It's too meta for me. Lash here is in different circumstances than she was in canon. We cannot rely on her being subverted. At the very least, I wouldn't, not without us applying exalted-grade social attacks to her consistently somehow. Harry has heroic willpower, but, as I said, the situation is different from canon.
2) If we are going by meta reasons, as long as we don't tell Harry about SRE, we can't use it to cure half-reds (it should apply), and reunite Harry with his daughter.
- Location
- washington
not having time at the beginning presumably or the power to make it.
We do have sort of an understanding with Lash, when we met her during the soul gaze, so there is that reason for Molly to not expulse her right there right now.
And does Harry even knows about his daughter at this point of time anyway?
- Location
- washington
he doesn't know about her until the first few paragraphs of changes. Then immediately goes on a mission to save them.
Last edited:
- Location
- washington
I'll note currently maggie is actually with a good family apparently as far as I know they are totally gonna get murdered without help though.
- Location
- Earth
Yeah. Spoilers ahead for changes.
That one Half-vampire friend of Susan (Harry's GF) betrays them to the Red Court.
But not because he likes the Red Court, but because he wants to put the White Council and Red Court on more of a collision course.
The war those two have is the best thing for all the rebellious half-vampire to happen for several centuries, so he wants to keep that going.
But not because he likes the Red Court, but because he wants to put the White Council and Red Court on more of a collision course.
The war those two have is the best thing for all the rebellious half-vampire to happen for several centuries, so he wants to keep that going.
He doesn't, but if we are using meta reasoning, she's still a consideration.
And I would question the understanding we have with Lash. We had one talk, in which we didn't trust her at all, but lacked power to do anything about her. We have that power now.