Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

Lol.

I remember a quote of six Dragons, but I cant find the cite.
The Word of Jim compilation has a quote circa 2011 that there were 3-4 Dragons alive at that time, of which only Ferrovax and Pyrovax have been named. This was post-Siriothrax and post-Tunguska.

Thats 5-6. We have no idea how many there originally in this setting.
Or what happened to the unnamed Great ones who arent confirmed kills.
Maybe they are just asleep. Or withdrawn from the world.

For the first part. I think this is the cite you are looking for.

Q: You mentioned that Mister Ferro won't be back until the Apocalyptic Trilogy, right? [Jim: Probably not.] Will we see other dragons before that?
A: How many dragons do you guys want? [Laughter; "All of them!"] Actually, we're darn close. There's only like three or four of them left in the world. Which is why killing one is kind of a big deal. Also, its going to totally upset all kinds of things if that happens. So: of course. You can't just go 'I slew a dragon!' 'Greaaaaat. You did what? [Laughter] You did what?' That's the kind of reaction you garner, especially from people who are defenders of the status quo, which is pretty much everyone.

As for the second part. We actually know at least in dresden files canon what happened according to Butcher here.

Muskogee: What happened to the rest of the dragons excluding the one Michael killed?

Jim: Various stuff happened to all the dragons over time. They just sort of got whittled down slowly over the years. By and large they were killed by mortals.

The vast majority of them got essentially killed by mortals over the years.

Which does admittedly explain another thing mentioned by him here.

Ferrovax feels absolutely no need to boast. It's because he /is/ a Dragon, large D, an elemental force of the cosmos. He isn't some kind of Smaug hanging around a nice apartment. He's a Dragon in a more Asian sense of the concept, a semi-divine being who was once given authority over various portions of the mortal universe, and who was responsible for their orderly procession. There /are/ Smauglike dragons (though not nearly as many now as there have been in the past, thanks George!) but they are essentially nothing but emissaries and servitors created in the image of the real thing.

Regardless of big D or little d, dragons almost universally resent humanity for usurping the balance of power in the world.
 
COMMENTARY
-2nd October. Meeting is on the 5th iirc.
4 days left.

-Female human form. A foot shorter than Molly puts her between 4 foot 10 to 5 foot. And slight. Which could be her natural size, or it could just as easily be a form assumed by a shapeshifter aiming to....not deceive, but manipulate. If you're looking for sympathy, or to get someone to help, it does help if you look like you need protecting.

Thats how human psychology works.
I dont think she can lie to Michael's face, though.

-Tuzi? Yeah, well, I think we have a candidate for Lydia's second familiar; I was thinking an Egyptian cat/cat-spirit to fill out the three animals noted in Speaker to Crow and Hound, but Chinese does quite as well. And a guardian of the dead, and of the threshold between worlds is thematic for an Exigent of Death.

Now we just have to find the hound.

-The way she describes the DJ suggests she was either his Familiar or his Spirit Guide. Maybe a Totem.
She seems to have loved him, obviously. Romantic? Maternal? Filial?
She was probably a lot older than him, mind, but chronological age doesnt mean the same with spirits as with humanity.


-So there's a purpose behind the deaths beyond just a tasty meal.
Given the meeting with Molly and canon Dresdenverse precedent, I think odds are either that
1)They are being sacrificed to empower blood magic
2)They are being sacrificed to empower a summoning from Yomi Wan

Both of this are allowed in Wan Kuei and Akuma mechanics.
There was a slim chance that this was naagloshii work, but this description suggests otherwise.
Eiko's prepping a betrayal then, but we already knew that.

We need to get Lydia to his grave to see if his ghost is available. Then ask a Crown question.


-We're likely to need a safe house.
The Church would usually do against Wan Kuei or Akuma, but it doesnt provide any protection against any purely human minions.
Lydia's place has wards, but I am not comfortable sending strangers there.

===
@DragonParadox
QUESTION
-Did we have All Things Betray running during this conversation?

-
"I hope so too, there is evil abroad for those who follow the Excelent Archer to slay, one that fears neither living nor dead, one that moved with the tapestry of chi and yet is not of it, one who has killed and killed again, until all of the old blood in this city is spent."
Is this referring to three different entities, or the same one?
 
ExWoD is silent on the question of how the curse on the Wan Xian manifested as far as I can tell. Blood and Silk is the Kindred of the East history book.

ExWoD derives from it, summarising and simplifying on the assumption that people will refer to those sources for the more complete details:

Finally, Tien Lu plucked the last blossom from the Tree of Immortality and three of the four remaining original Wan Xian, resigned tothe coming fire, strode into Heaven before the August Personage of Jade levied his curse upon the rest of the Ten Thousand Immortals. They became the Wan Kuei, the Ten Thousand Demons.

At first only a subtle change came: The August Personage of Jade's tests - which had previously bestowed immortality - twisted in on themselves and became part of Yomi Wan. Where once a mortal might have to travel to the land of the wisest forest spirits and gain their favor, now that mortal had to die with wickedness on his soul and escape the Hell of the Burning Forest with his sanity intact. The Ten Thousand Demons did not breathe, and they had to steal Chi or succumb to death.​
So you're saying that the APJ, seeing that his mortal heroes were corrupt and evil, decided to give them over lock stock and barrel to the Yama Kings to do with as they will?

That just doesn't make any sense and doesn't fit the description of what happened as being a curse.
 
VOTE
[X] Try to convince her to introduce you to those other spirits, you are going to do this properly... even though it might be a little obvious
-[X] Empathy excellency and Etiquette excellency if necessary
-[X] Call Lydia at first opportunity
-[X]STUNT: Death is the act and the reason....you resolve to call Lydia,before returning your attention to the grieving spirit. "I am sorry for your loss" you begin awkwardly, giving the spirit time to compose herself. "But to keep this evil from claiming more lives, I think it would be best to not....startle people into possibly running into the sights of their hunters by showing up unannounced at their door." You pause for a moment, then continue. "Can you get us a meeting with their guardians?"



RATIONALE
Dont touch the woman only clothed in a borrowed sheet. And cultural differences probably matter as well.

While Im inclined to trust Tuzi, and know that its hard to deceive Michael when he's on duty? They say trust but verify.
I would prefer the word of more than one spirit before knocking on people's doors when there's killers on the loose who could use our presence to beat the bushes and spook their victims into the open.

Also, remember Pauline Moskowitz's reaction when she met Molly for the first time. In daylight, in a cafeteria.
And then consider if we knock unannounced on the doors of three people who are hiding from supernatural killers.


Dont make any plans about shelter until we meet the people involved.
It might be better to ask Lydia if she can host and then move into her place with the people, behind her wards, for the next four days.
After all, Wan Kuei/Kuei-Jin are essentially Black Court vampires, and Lydia has a type advantage.

Or to rent an empty apartment in Helen's building for the next month, stock it with supplies, and have them lay low for the next week or two. And ask Bane to watch it as well.
We can afford to drop a couple thousand dollars to rent an apartment or two for a couple months if necessary.

Make no promises of vengeance you arent absolutely certain you can keep; your word matters in this setting, and we mignt well be unable to keep that promise.
Or the person who did it might just be a proxy.

Yes, its obvious. But it cant be helped.
Molly isnt particularly subtle.
Not yet.
 
[X] Uju32

Yeah. All else aside, Tuzi as much as told us she's incredibly jumpy. Touching her by surprise after she went out of her way to keep her distance is probably not a good plan.
 
Dont make any plans about shelter until we meet the people involved.
It might be better to ask Lydia if she can host and then move into her place with the people, behind her wards, for the next four days.
After all, Wan Kuei/Kuei-Jin are essentially Black Court vampires, and Lydia has a type advantage.
On one hand, true. On another, the mission statement of the Order of Cauldron is protection of its members and, at least the intention is, of small-time practitioners in the area in general. This is a good point to start expanding the order into the Paranet it can be. And Bane is probably a better guardian than Lydia's wards. Possibly even with the type advantage. I do agree that involving Lydia is a good idea, and if the kitty cat joins Lydia, that gives her a large boost.

Ok, so, touching her... Agreed. That might be a bit too much for her. Changing the stunt, and adding calling Lydia. If nothing else, she can also provide shelter. And there are probably unquiet dead around.

[X] Try to convince her to introduce you to those other spirits, you are going to do this properly... even though it might be a little obvious
-[X] Empathy excellency to convince and console her, and Etiquette excellency for the introductions
-[X] Text Helen. See if she can shelter the shamans for a couple of days; hers is pretty much the most protected dwelling in town right now, as far as wards go.
-[X] Call Lydia at first opportunity
--[X] STUNT: The spirit before you is most likely old. It is definitely not human. It is still someone who lost a loved one to predation of the forces of evil. You shuffle awkwardly, a desire to hug her warring with he fear of spooking her "I am sorry for your loss; I wasn't here then. I am now. I cannot bring him back for you. I will avenge him. Now, please, help me make sure that others don't have to go through what you experienced. And then we'll get you and them into safety" you say in a consoling tone. Moments later, as you leave the alley to go meet the hiding shamans, you fish out your phone out of your pocket, and text Helen. These might not be Ordos' members, but the principle of the point stands - humans have to stick together.
 
Following a EX vs WOD game. The exalted in it had their hell be a vast with Heavenly climate, no people and endless suffering. He went fairly heavy into cult and figured that he could just populate the world himself. Also doesn't mind the idea of ruining the world to reach essence 6 after all he has a much nicer world to put everyone in.
 
@DragonParadox a mechanics question. By Rage Recast can be purchased up to essence level times. It can be a signature charm with the signature effect being "The Infernal picks one additional Aspect to permanently add to her Shintai form.". Does the effect scale with the amount of times we bought By Rage Recast? If we buy BRR three times, do get 3 additional Aspects for our shintai? Philosohically it's a question of whether the charm, or the instance of the charm are our signature.
 
@DragonParadox a mechanics question. By Rage Recast can be purchased up to essence level times. It can be a signature charm with the signature effect being "The Infernal picks one additional Aspect to permanently add to her Shintai form.". Does the effect scale with the amount of times we bought By Rage Recast? If we buy BRR three times, do get 3 additional Aspects for our shintai? Philosohically it's a question of whether the charm, or the instance of the charm are our signature.

I think you would get one for each instance.
 
One gets you three. BRR isn't what I would call the strongest charm, either normally or in terms of signature so it seems balanced enough to be generous
If it scales with the amount of times we purchase it, by E5 we can have fifteen additional bruised health levels. Plus 9 more from Unbound Exchaton Shintai. Plus 12 from regular shintai. That's 36 total. This is what, laugh at artillery levels?
 
That seems in line with some of the other 5 dot signature effects. They can do things like spawn your own backup squad or flood the local area to simultaneously drown people and toss them about with the currents.

Plus purchasing By Rage Recast five times costs as much as two 5 dot charms.

Edit: To be clear I meant that the benefits of five BRR+signature are solidly inline with the xp cost there of, when compared to other Infernal charms.
 
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Plus purchasing By Rage Recast five times costs as much as two 5 dot charms.
Well, it's not like purchasing By Rage Recast is worthless on its own. My idea would be to purchase Swift Stride, Extra Limbs and maybe Venomous with By Rage Recast, and use all Aspects on additional health levels. At that point we become the tankiest tank who ever tanked. Throw on some perfect defenses, and it would take mote tapping us and then throwing perfect death effects to kill us.
 
On the topic of the ordo, if we're playing security guard for them we should consider some more active about keeping them alive. It'd be annoying to only find out they were in trouble because multiple people died first.

Think we could get them to send still alive texts to a cyber devil phone or something like that?

Dresden knows how to make a decent escape potion, so we could also try making something like that with a useful shelf life to hand out.

A bit pricey, but I bet we could trade favors on the implicit debt without too much issue.

Really that potion would be good for us too; it's basically a short ranged wind teleport.
[X] Try to convince her to introduce you to those other spirits, you are going to do this properly... even though it might be a little obvious
-[X] Empathy excellency to convince and console her, and Etiquette excellency for the introductions
-[X] Text Helen. See if she can shelter the shamans for a couple of days; hers is pretty much the most protected dwelling in town right now, as far as wards go.
-[X] Call Lydia at first opportunity
--[X] STUNT: The spirit before you is most likely old. It is definitely not human. It is still someone who lost a loved one to predation of the forces of evil. You shuffle awkwardly, a desire to hug her warring with he fear of spooking her "I am sorry for your loss; I wasn't here then. I am now. I cannot bring him back for you. I will avenge him. Now, please, help me make sure that others don't have to go through what you experienced. And then we'll get you and them into safety" you say in a consoling tone. Moments later, as you leave the alley to go meet the hiding shamans, you fish out your phone out of your pocket, and text Helen. These might not be Ordos' members, but the principle of the point stands - humans have to stick together.
Still a bad idea to let our mouth write checks we aren't sure our ass can cash.

If we end up in a situation where we can't for one reason or another then we'll make a liar of ourselves.
 
On one hand, true. On another, the mission statement of the Order of Cauldron is protection of its members and, at least the intention is, of small-time practitioners in the area in general. This is a good point to start expanding the order into the Paranet it can be. And Bane is probably a better guardian than Lydia's wards. Possibly even with the type advantage. I do agree that involving Lydia is a good idea, and if the kitty cat joins Lydia, that gives her a large boost.

Ok, so, touching her... Agreed. That might be a bit too much for her. Changing the stunt, and adding calling Lydia. If nothing else, she can also provide shelter. And there are probably unquiet dead around.

[X] Try to convince her to introduce you to those other spirits, you are going to do this properly... even though it might be a little obvious
-[X] Empathy excellency to convince and console her, and Etiquette excellency for the introductions
-[X] Text Helen. See if she can shelter the shamans for a couple of days; hers is pretty much the most protected dwelling in town right now, as far as wards go.
-[X] Call Lydia at first opportunity
--[X] STUNT: The spirit before you is most likely old. It is definitely not human. It is still someone who lost a loved one to predation of the forces of evil. You shuffle awkwardly, a desire to hug her warring with he fear of spooking her "I am sorry for your loss; I wasn't here then. I am now. I cannot bring him back for you. I will avenge him. Now, please, help me make sure that others don't have to go through what you experienced. And then we'll get you and them into safety" you say in a consoling tone. Moments later, as you leave the alley to go meet the hiding shamans, you fish out your phone out of your pocket, and text Helen. These might not be Ordos' members, but the principle of the point stands - humans have to stick together.
1)No it isnt.
Let me quote Pauline Moskowitz about their mission statement:
The words come more quickly now, smoother, like something she had said a dozen times before: "We are all made in the image of the Divine, whether one sees that as One or Many, Male or Female, Manifest or Transcendent and we all seek to cleave to God by whatever Name we call Him, magic is not something you do, something you can choose to stop, no more than you can stop breathing, it is just that some of us make wider ripples than others, blessed with the power to touch the fates and hearts of others and cursed with the eye of dark things, things like he Pathfinders. This is a world at war and it has been so long before the White Council noticed that vampires are indeed terrible." She laughs, sharp and hollow. "The best any of us can do is keep our wits about us and support each other as we can, check up calls, common workings, that sort of thing."

"Us?" you prompt.

Pauline stops to think, weighing danger against opportunity and perhaps the presence of a Knight of the Cross against whatever you feel like to her spirit companion. "The Ordo Lebetis, I guess you could think of us as a coven,, though really the only common rede we have is 'Do as ye will, harm ye none'. It's like the way people would gather in the old days to build a house or some other meaningful task in a village."

"Call up the militia?" Lydia interjects, curiously.

"Heavens no, we are not a power, we would be ground to powder and cast into the winds if we tried that. Just knowing there are other people in the know around you is enough to keep off most predators and for those insistent or malicious enough to persist a strong ward and steady hands bearing their banes usually suffice. Strength in numbers basically."
Notice how Anna Ash's reaction to her friend dying wasnt to declare war, or to scour Chinatown for other potential targets?
They currently have neither the resources, nor the magical, mental or physical preparations for it.
One member's mega warded safehouse does not a supernatural-fighting organization make.


There are members who are willing to take a more proactive stance if they have the resources.
But most Cauldron members are normal people with families who want to live, not enlist to fight a war. It behooves us not make decisions for Cauldron unilaterally, or draw fire to them that they do not have the power or preparations to stand off.

Do remember they would be targets as well if Eiko's crew expanded their targetset outside of Chinatown.

And even if/when we get them to expand?
Their baptism of fire should not be an elder Akuma of Emma-O and its entourage.
Thats like having a naagloshii be the training mission for the Alphas, or a loup garou for the Jade Dogs.

We may well have to lean on the Church for this.
Father Forthill and the Church has experience hiding people from supernatural threat, and supernaturals cant cross the grounds of a consecrated church, not with hostile intent.

Charity literally took the Carpenter family there after the fetches kidnapped Molly.



2) Bane is a better allround guardian than Lydia's wards.
Just not necessarily in this situation; her wards were set up by a Celtic death god, and repaired/reinforced by a White Council wizard who has read the Word of Kemmler.

Its going to be particularly potent against creatures of death like Blampires, Wan Kuei and akuma.

However, Lydia is a lot better at taking care of herself than Helen Beckitt, who has to go to work regularly running a "health club" that closes at night, because brothel hours. And Helen Beckitt, once compromised, leaves magical and data breadcrumbs to all the other delicious morsels of Cauldron, none of whom live under Bane's aegis.

Just getting access to her physical cellphone or phone records will potentially expose Cauldron's entire roster.
And thats something well within the capability of a lot of akuma, who arent unfamiliar with technology or human society.
Four days is enough time to do a shitton of damage, or wire their names home to Emma-O for future action.
 
On further thought, we probably should consider the blending potion too (link to potion list). It's useful for us, but it could be considerably more helpful for a minor practitioner trying to escape low end supernaturals. There is the issue with getting help while under its effects, but being able to subtly evade is potentially helpful in a significantly broader set of circumstances than the teleport.

Not that the wind-step teleport isn't useful, but it's short range and obvious. If the user times it poorly or isn't sure enough about the threat to be willing to draw attention it could be less effective. Blending has some duration to it, and can be used around vanilla mortals without causing problems.

I'm also really curious about how crafting it would play out IC, since it's basically a lesser variant of a charm effect. If we had ATP and the recipe, could we study how we achieve both effects to gain bonuses to designing other potions based on our charm effects?

Not anything like full power obviously.

But stuff like potions that give minor resistance to cold/cold magic, something inspired by DPE that makes the user feel vaguely reminiscent of Molly for a while*, a minor craft speed booster, and stuff like that would be interesting and thematic.

* More in the dog marking territory sense than in the inherently scary one.
Notice how Anna Ash's reaction to her friend dying wasnt to declare war, or to scour Chinatown for other potential targets?
Also, this is sort of our job in any case.

The ordo is useful to us in terms of lore, access to local information, and support in various minor magical efforts we don't quite have the leverage to apply Molly's substantial supernatural muscles to. As we build influence that will eventually turn into more general minion things.

In exchange we eat any trouble that follows them home alive.

Not that it was said explicitly, but when you're a whale hanging with the shrimp that's kind of the way it's going to go.

Tracking trouble to their door ourselves is kind of suboptimal.
 
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