herbalism is an advanced skill (most of the profession skills are) and as such requires 50 progress to achieve or 30 cc for the lessons (probably like 25 cc if you're buying it in bulk). please note that you wont be able to raise the skill through ghost power so you'll be stuck doing it the old and boring way, having Guang Li take actions to study it.
What does everyone think about buying this skill next turn?
With the 50% price reduction in common herbs we'd only save 0.25 CC per common herb (which would require 100 common herbs to be grown to save the 25 CC needed to buy the Skill in bulk) but there are also the rare herbs (8cc saved per grown).
3 rare + 4 common would be enough to break even.
And with rare herbs we could make stuff like Yin Qi pills.
Well apparently we will already get like 28 Pure Qi in pills from our share of required mass production? or half that in fire Qi as I assume thats also a common order?
Either would massively speed up various types of Cultivation. Like we could either move through Meridians faster or start working on our second Dantian with pure qi or move through Body Refining faster with fire Qi.
With the 50% price reduction in common herbs we'd only save 0.25 CC per common herb (which would require 100 common herbs to be grown to save the 25 CC needed to buy the Skill in bulk) but there are also the rare herbs (8cc saved per grown).
I feel like herbalism is a skill-based way to turn actions into CC.
I feel like alchemy is also a skill-based way to turn actions into CC.
I feel like we currently have a solid investment in alchemy that we don't have in herbalism, and we might be well-served to keep driving down the path that we're on, rather than trying to split our focus too much.
I suspect that Qi Ghosts would be capable of purging pill toxicity, if it became an issue. There might also be a blood-based way for wrath ghosts to do it. It seems like the sort of "impossibly fine-grained work" thing that ghosts are good at.
How expensive are the pills for the result of merging fire+yang?
and would the double benefits from both stack?
As those are both good for body refining:
Fire is destruction, it is wild and uncontrollable but it is also renewal, purification and the forge of all things. Using fire Qi to refine one's body yields double the progress and double the benefits.
Yang represents the energy of the living, physically. The Guang line has been known to have well below average Yang roots. Utilizing mostly Yang Qi for projects which impose the physicality aspect grant double the benefits.
Fire pills are 2CC, Yang 4CC
For use in:
[ ] Refine his skin. Cost 2 Qi per time taken [0/38]. Refined skin II (+2 Constitution).
[ ] Refine his muscles. Cost 2 Qi per time taken [0/38]. Refined muscles II (+2 Strength).
and would:
[] Buy a body reforging elixir (2x progress to the first body refining action to the turn) for 2 contribution points.
double the total once more?
I feel like herbalism is a skill-based way to turn actions into CC.
I feel like alchemy is also a skill-based way to turn actions into CC.
I feel like we currently have a solid investment in alchemy that we don't have in herbalism, and we might be well-served to keep driving down the path that we're on, rather than trying to split our focus too much.
I think the most likely interaction is that high-level Alchemy requires high-level Herbs. It might be more about herb scarcity than Action/CC efficiency far enough down the line.
But it be a while till we reach that point brewing as reflection Qi pills is 20 common plus 2 rare herbs and that is a combination of mirror and light, which are respectively a combination of water+ metal+ Yin and crystal + Yin, with crystal being a combination of earth +yin.
So we can get very complex pills with rare herbs
I can see the argument. It's an unknown, and it might be cool, so you want to buy the first level to see if it is.
My take in response to that is... well, the first level won't be all that impressive, because nothing is all that impressive at the first level. Also, the first few levels are unlikely to give us anything other than effective CC generation, because herbalism at the lower levels is all about generating herbs of varieties that we already have available to us. We might be able to generate income over time, somehow, but I doubt it'll be truly passive - it's going to require actions over time as well. First, because that's how agriculture works, and second because otherwise basically everyone who was far enough along on their cultivation journey would have an herb bed on the side and I'm pretty sure that that's not how it works.
Then getting it anywhere past that first level is going to require actions from our boy and/or additional CC in nontrivial quantities.
Now... I admit that while I was writing this, a thought did occur to me. I doubt we'll get an effort-free herb garden or anything, but I wouldn't be entirely surprised if "skill at herbalism" translated to "sometimes when you're out on ad ventures you just happen to find extra herbs." Still, that feels like a bit of a thin branch to hand your hopes from, given that (unless I am very confused) our boy is already doing herb-gathering from time to time.
So... to me, it feels like a nontrivial expenditure of resources, for an unlock that seems like it will mostly confirm that it will need *more* resources to be worthwhile... and even then will just conflict with Alchemy for "things we do to turn actions into CC". I'm not saying that it's crazy to think otherwise, but that's how it's feeling to me.
Still, that feels like a bit of a thin branch to hand your hopes from, given that (unless I am very confused) our boy is already doing herb-gathering from time to time.
Having the Herbalism skill could very plausibly upgrade the "doing herb-gathering from time to time".
With the Story justification of "now that Li knows more about herbs and their growing he is better at recognizing herbs, meaning he finds more before they are gathered by other disciples".
But yeah, a non-trivial but non-ruinous expense hoping to find a skill that boosts our Alchemy (but isn't guaranteed without AP investment) with varying assumptions on the chances.
There is a possibility to break the stalemate of "what is the chance"...
@uri
Could you tell us a bit what having Herbalism unlocks?
Is it just a proffession skill for a different hall? (Way to do AP-> CC like Alchemy Halls mass brewing, but for a different hall)
Or could it boost our Alchemy without competing for Li-AP (better passive gathering, a simple herbgarden below needing AP (like the passive gathering atm), allow us ghosts to be better at searching, etc)?
It's a profession skill, it'll require some actions to set up and maintain a herb garden which could prove synergetic with your alchemy. With you being in charge of what you plant you could likely get "discounts" to the cost of certain recipes as you grow herbs that are more suitable for it (water and Yin Qi seem like the most obvious) but that would take time and effort.
There is also a reason that there are two different halls rather than just the alchemy and agriculture hall.
It would give some slight bonus to finding and identifying herbs but that is more of a small bonus then the main benefit.
It's a profession skill, it'll require some actions to set up and maintain a herb garden which could prove synergetic with your alchemy. With you being in charge of what you plant you could likely get "discounts" to the cost of certain recipes as you grow herbs that are more suitable for it (water and Yin Qi seem like the most obvious) but that would take time and effort.
There is also a reason that there are two different halls rather than just the alchemy and agriculture hall.
It would give some slight bonus to finding and identifying herbs but that is more of a small bonus then the main benefit.
Will this also brew 3d10+4+10 pills with a max of 5
And can the ghosts use the pill furnace?
The additional lessons seem expensive as the shop has:
[] purchase advance lessons (+10 to skill progress bar) for 3 CC.***
***advanced skills double the cost.
So its 6CC for alchemy lessons there
can we use the stipend to but lessons in Cultivation,Breakthrough and/or Refining?
Hmm at 5cc a pop that is much more affordable , since guang could probably get ~60+ cc a turn we could afford spending the max amount for 40 alchemy gain each turn.
Edit:We will have to start planning purchases properly instead of improvising to get the most out of it though , especially since wed need to buy herbs each turn.
With you being in charge of what you plant you could likely get "discounts" to the cost of certain recipes as you grow herbs that are more suitable for it (water and Yin Qi seem like the most obvious) but that would take time and effort.
It occurs to me that this is also the sort of benefit we might be able to gain by being good enough friends with an herbalist. Not sure how doable that is, though. "Make friends" seems to be more of a random event thing than a result of concerted effort.
What do you all think of delaying our breakthrough a turn to allow us using a more powerful type of Qi(reflection)
We get 1 per turn from our artifact so we only need to make one.
Its 20 common herbs + 2 rare, with the 30% discount from our tools that is 14 X 0.25 =3.5CC + 2 X 8 = 20 CC
as they need 20 common herbs we need 20 progress to brew one so need to roll that on a 3D10+4+10
IF we do it now it would be with Yin:
Utilizing mostly Yin Qi for projects which improve the mind/spirit double the benefits incurred.
Reflection:
Special: 4x to all spiritual/mental characteristics when used (already included in the stated attribute gain),2x progress or +5 on the roll for spiritual/mantel actions (this includes refining, meridians, the middle dantian, creating a Qi well, the power of thought and that basically it for what you have unlocked).
Does the +5 also apply to attempts to breaktrough?
What do you all think of delaying our breakthrough a turn to allow us using a more powerful type of Qi(reflection)
We get 1 per turn from our artifact so we only need to make one.
Its 20 common herbs + 2 rare, with the 30% discount from our tools that is 14 X 0.25 =3.5CC + 2 X 8 = 20 CC
as they need 20 common herbs we need 20 progress to brew one so need to roll that on a 3D10+4+10
IF we do it now it would be with Yin:
Utilizing mostly Yin Qi for projects which improve the mind/spirit double the benefits incurred.
Reflection:
Special: 4x to all spiritual/mental characteristics when used (already included in the stated attribute gain),2x progress or +5 on the roll for spiritual/mantel actions (this includes refining, meridians, the middle dantian, creating a Qi well, the power of thought and that basically it for what you have unlocked).
Does the +5 also apply to attempts to breaktrough?
I very much doubt we can.
Guang li is preparing for breakthrough having bought pills .
We know he is frustrated at being stuck and wants to breakthrough so presumably if we don't do It he will.
Which frankly is a waste of his action anyway, so we are better off breaking through ourself.
Plus honestly? min maxing here isn't worth delaying our progress even more.
Yeah I'd be on board with buying Yang qi to accomplish the breakthrough. Ideally we could do it ourselves, but if Li insists on doing it himself then let him do it.
Yeah I'd be on board with buying Yang qi to accomplish the breakthrough. Ideally we could do it ourselves, but if Li insists on doing it himself then let him do it.
we get 10 cc a turn for exactly this so we can buy the yang qi from the shop.
anyway even if li wants to breakthrough himself(and I bet he will next turn) we should still try to do it anyway since his actions are valuable enough that whatever he will default to instead will be better.
What do you all think of delaying our breakthrough a turn to allow us using a more powerful type of Qi(reflection)
We get 1 per turn from our artifact so we only need to make one.
Its 20 common herbs + 2 rare, with the 30% discount from our tools that is 14 X 0.25 =3.5CC + 2 X 8 = 20 CC
as they need 20 common herbs we need 20 progress to brew one so need to roll that on a 3D10+4+10
IF we do it now it would be with Yin:
Utilizing mostly Yin Qi for projects which improve the mind/spirit double the benefits incurred.
Reflection:
Special: 4x to all spiritual/mental characteristics when used (already included in the stated attribute gain),2x progress or +5 on the roll for spiritual/mantel actions (this includes refining, meridians, the middle dantian, creating a Qi well, the power of thought and that basically it for what you have unlocked).
Does the +5 also apply to attempts to breaktrough?
AN: I figured I was better to make this vote separate as it would save me (and you) a big headache. Remember this is a vote for you getting a technique not using it. With his ancestors help Guang Li has managed to open another of his meridians. This time around the attempt occurred without difficulties, opening the meridian without any kind of strain put on his body and soul.
But more then just opening a meridian, opening his fourth meridian was apparently considered impressive and the inner disciples from which Guang Li received his sect stipend -the money for food and slight luxuries- has pulled him aside and congratulated him.
For his achievement Guang Li received a small bonus of contribution points (5 points to be exact) but more importantly he has been given permission to enter the restricted wing of the library and pick up a breathing technique.
When he probed his ancestors of what a breathing technique was all he received was silence before a soft whisper explanation that they did not know, that the knowledge was gone and unrecoverable.
Just one more sign for the damage that the collective of his ancestors suffered.
Asking his senior brothers produced the explanation that breathing techniques were special breathing methods that utilized ones open meridian to achieve some passive effect upon the body, soul or mind.
A few days a later Guang LI finally entered the restricted section, well "entered" he was brought into a small room and had around for dozen scrolls dropped in front of him to pursual while the inner disciples that brought him in watched him unwaveringly.
After a good hour of reading Guang Li thought he has read enough and closed his eyes. Focusing on his ancestors' whispers to decide which technique he should take.
Breathing techniques are special techniques that utilize your meridians for their effects most consuming or focusing their bonuses.
Every breathing technique has an effect when its active, a number of meridians they "take up" and possibly other costs or a drawback if you deactivate it.
You can only have one breathing technique active at a time.
Pick one (note picking up a technique dos not mean using them).
[] Breath of fire- a breathing method designed to create a pseudo fire root. Consisting of many small breaths and one long at the end of every cycle. To represent the rapidness of fire and it power
Meridians needed: 2/4/6/8.
Effect: create an imagery fire root of grade 15/10/5/1.
[] Breath of imagination- a breathing method consisting of long and drawn-out inhalations and exhalations, a calm method meant to feed the mind.
Meridians needed: 5/10/20.
Effect: increased comprehension* by 1/2/3 steps.
Yin effect (when utilizing only meridians of yin**): replace the increase to 2/4/6.
Drawback: when removing this breathing method comprehension is reduced by the amount it was raised for 6 turns. Removing this technique improperly (IE suddenly and without a small project) has a chance to reduce comprehension permanently.
*I should probably mention what comprehension dos. Basically, every step of comprehension reduces your effective skill level by 1 for the calculation about the amount of progress needed to the next level.
**or other types of Qi that has yin in it.
[] Breath of War- a breathing method meant to dedicate one whole purpose for battle. Consisting of small but powerful breaths, this breathing technique is meant to be adopted during times of conflict and switched away after battle has concluded.
Meridians needed: all. (all you have open not all of the 670 meridians).
Effect: adds +1 per meridian opened to all combat rolls.
Yin effect: add +2 instead.
Drawback: switching away from this technique saps stamina equivalent to an adrenalin crash.
[] Endlessly refining breath- a breathing technique consisting of long breaths infused with Qi meant to circle the power gained throughout one's body to refine it further toward perfection.
Meridians needed: 3/6/9/12-/ 300.
Effect: +1/2/3/4/5 to body refining rolls per die.
Yin effect: change to +2/+4/+6/+8 to body refining rolls per die.
Drawback: improperly changing* away from this breathing technique would injure the body and may introduce corruption.
*Properly changing breathing techniques would cost 20 progresses for the ancestors to do but Guang Li may do so while doing another action. like going on a combat mission.
[] Yang focusing breath-a breathing technique meant to specialize ones meridians in the collection of Yang and Yang aligned Qi.
Meridan needed: none.
Effect: 2x on the effect of meridians on gathering fire, wood and Yang Qi.
Yin effect: 3x instead.
Drawback: negate the effect of meridians on water, earth and Yin Qi.
Yes, though in the contexts of turns. No, I'm deactivating this for just the moment of time I need to do x and then using it just when I need to do Y which it benefits.
Basically, you can switch it freely between turns.
Breath of war is a bit special because the times it will be used (events and missions) already include the time to switch away from it (or to it I suppose if you have something else).
interesting so there is quite a bit of incentive for us to save up and buy multiple breath techs for various use cases.
if we know there is a fight coming then breath of war is optimal, breath of imagination would allow us to rapidly increase our skills over a short period of time , and stuff like breath of fire paired with the breath of endlessly refining over a period of few turns could allow us to rapidly push through body refining with some prep.
