Gamehammer 40K(Warhammer 40K/The Gamer)

mrttao · Jan 9, 2016

Had to do two seperate tallies because some people voted in bad formats and this way I can easily fix it.
Imperial guard vs inquisition vote

Vote Tally : Gamehammer 40K(Warhammer 40K/The Gamer) | Page 20 | Sufficient Velocity
##### NetTally 1.5.9
[X] Boggs(Inquisition)
No. of Votes: 48
[X] Knock(Imperial Guard)
No. of Votes: 4

mrttao
CrashPenguin
Iandude0
King Arthur

Total No. of Voters: 52

Point spending vote

Vote Tally : Gamehammer 40K(Warhammer 40K/The Gamer) | Page 20 | Sufficient Velocity
##### NetTally 1.5.9
[X] How do you spend your points?
-[X] Raise everything to 20 then put last point into Strength
No. of Votes: 12

Tel Janin Aman
afterthought53
Arbit
Asmodemus
Astaroh-M
BlackTitanOdin
DarknessSmiles
frostgiant
HanEmpire
Kaferian
MindlessKeno
Ruirk

[X] How do you spend your points?
-[X] plan Lucky Magi
-[X] 15 points into luck
-[X] 15 points into Int
-[X] 15 points into WIS
-[X] 5 points into WP
No. of Votes: 8

Cjdavis103
aguy
butchock
KleverKil'Vanya
Lazurman
Maragas
Piell
veekie

[X] Save Them.
No. of Votes: 7

Superticus
DakkaMania
Darkcloudt2
Derkan
Happerry
JoshieWoshie
Wwind

[X] 14 to DEX, 15 to VIT, 6 to WP, 15 to WIS
No. of Votes: 5

King Arthur
drake_azathoth
nairit
skaro
Void Stalker

[X] How do you spend your points?
-[X] Plan Tougher, Smarter, Shootier: 15 to WIS/Dex, 10 to VIT/INT.
No. of Votes: 3

The Stormbringer
DragonParadox
jaiveer00

[x] Quarter of points into WP, Wis, Vit, and Dex respectively.
No. of Votes: 3

Flamester
Iandude0
NoSoulNoRegrets

[X] 30 to WP, 10 to Vit, 10 to Int.
No. of Votes: 2

Antarnoth
WarShipper

[X] How do you spend your points?
-[X] 15 to VIT, 15 to INT, 14 to DEX, 6 to WIS
No. of Votes: 2

Shard
aja318

[x] 15 to vit 10 to str 14 to dex 11 to int
No. of Votes: 1

ward201

[X] How do you spend your points?
-[X] Raise everything to 20 then put last point into Vit
No. of Votes: 1

kristopherw

[X] How do you spend your points?
-[X] Raise Wisdom to 50, and Intelligence to 20.
No. of Votes: 1

Neptune

[X] How do you spend your points?
-[X] Everything into Dex
No. of Votes: 1

mrttao

[X] all points into intelligence
No. of Votes: 1

Daniel14541

[X] 20 to vit, 5 to luck, 10 to dex, 15 to int
No. of Votes: 1

CrashPenguin

Total No. of Voters: 48

Alright people, the way the vote software works is that it can split votes into blocks if you wanted to
so
[x] Inquisition
[x] Point spending
-[x] 15 wis
-[x] 15 vit
-[x] 5 WP

gets split up into
[x] Inquisition
and
[x] Point spending
-[x] 15 wis
-[x] 15 vit
-[x] 5 WP

However, putting something like
[x]inquisition
-[x]point spending
-[x] 15 wis
-[x] 15 vit
-[x] 5 WP
is meaningless, it will either be one big block if splitting by block. or if splitting by line it will give meaninglessly seperated votes. that is, it would show up as
vote1
[x]inquisition
vote2
-[x]point spending
vote3
-[x] 15 wis
vote4
-[x] 15 vit
vote5
-[x] 5 WP

So naturally I couldn't split by line.

Also, plan notation... you should only do "plan x" if you put it at the bottom
[x] inquisition
-[x] Plan Wizard
is bad
do
[x] Plan Wizard
-[x] stuff
-[x] more stuff

of course in this case since we are clearly voting separately on where we go and how we spend it is not desired to put inquisition/guard under the plan, rather
[x] inquisition
[x] plan wizard
-[x] 15 wis
-[x] 15 vit
-[x] 5 WP

in such a case someone else can vote for
[x] imperial guard
[x] plan wizard

and his vote will automatically show up as
[x] inquisition
[x] plan wizard
-[x] 15 wis
-[x] 15 vit
-[x] 5 WP
and then be split up as appropriately needed

Culexus96 · Jan 9, 2016

mrttao said:
astartes las guns

Astartes use bolters not lasguns, and lasguns are capable of doing damage to even Space Marines if they hit them in a joint or the visor of their helmet.

It's just that hitting them is hard as fuck due to their size and the speed Astartes tend to move around at.

mrttao · Jan 9, 2016

Culexus96 said:
Astartes use bolters not lasguns

No, astartes USUALLY use bolters as their standard issue. which is a completely different thing despite the similarity. For one thing, the fact they usually use bolters does not mean that there does not exist such a thing as an astartes lasgun

Lascannon

Mark VII Mars Pattern Lascannon commonly used by the Chapters of the Adeptus Astartes

The Mark VII Mars Pattern (seen above) is the astartes las gun of choice, which is far too heavy to ever be used by a normal human being

There are also astartes sized plasma weapons, martian heat rays, shotguns, grenade launchers, and anything else you can think of

Also, astartes indicates not only its size, but also the quality of the care in its construction. All astartes weapons are hand crafted by high ranking magos and are usually very old and have been used in war for a very long time, as such they tend to have more powerful machine spirit (a machine spirit is not limited to things with a computer, it is a warp entity. one of the greatest machine spirits out there is a simple medieval sword! which some hero is carrying on his back, he never uses it but it grants him massive regeneration just carrying it in its holster)

Culexus96 said:
It's just that hitting them is hard as fuck due to their size and the speed Astartes tend to move around at.

While that helps, even if you hit them there is a good chance of their armor just "tanking" the shot and not taking any damage.

Hartenyn · Jan 9, 2016

[X] Boggs(Inquisition)
[X] How do you spend your points?
-[X] plan Lucky Magi
-[X] 15 points into luck
-[X] 15 points into Int
-[X] 15 points into WIS
-[X] 5 points into WP

Culexus96 · Jan 9, 2016

mrttao said:
No, astartes USUALLY use bolters as their standard issue. which is a completely different thing despite the similarity. For one thing, the fact they usually use bolters does not mean that there does not exist such a thing as an astartes lasgun

Lascannon

The Mark VII Mars Pattern (seen above) is the astartes las gun of choice, which is far too heavy to ever be used by a normal human being

There are also astartes sized plasma weapons, martian heat rays, shotguns, grenade launchers, and anything else you can think of

Also, astartes indicates not only its size, but also the quality of the care in its construction. All astartes weapons are hand crafted by high ranking magos and are usually very old and have been used in war for a very long time, as such they tend to have more powerful machine spirit (a machine spirit is not limited to things with a computer, it is a warp entity. one of the greatest machine spirits out there is a simple medieval sword! which some hero is carrying on his back, he never uses it but it grants him massive regeneration just carrying it in its holster)

While that helps, even if you hit them there is a good chance of their armor just "tanking" the shot and not taking any damage.

Lascannons are part of the Imperial guard as well, they tend to be be mounted on tripods but they're still a fairly common thing in heavy weapon squads.

Yes most things tend to also have an astartes size but the lascannon is a completely seperate entity from the lasgun so please don't call a lascannon a lasgun, it's like calling a howitzer an assault rifle.

mrttao · Jan 10, 2016

Culexus96 said:
Yes most things tend to also have an astartes size but the lascannon is a completely seperate entity from the lasgun so please don't call a lascannon a lasgun, it's like calling a howitzer an assault rifle.

Did you forget what you replied to?

mrttao said:
Are you sure you are not mixing astartes las guns with PDF las guns? las guns come from anything between a pocking thingie that does piddling damage to spaceship weapons.

Imagine I replaced "lasgun" with "gun"
"Are you sure you are not mixing astartes guns with PDF guns? guns come from anything between a pocket thingie that does piddling damage and spaceship weapons".
Yes, they do have spaceship sized guns in WH40k, because reasons. It is conventional to call bigger ones canons, but I made it perfectly clear what I was saying. And was using the term "lasgun" for both because you used the term lasgun in the post I was replying to.
Lasgun
If you look at that, they even have a "shot las" which is a "laser shotgun" under the "lasgun" category.

The Stormbringer · Jan 10, 2016

[X] Boggs(Inquisition)
[X] How do you spend your points?
-[X] plan Lucky Magi
-[X] 15 points into luck
-[X] 15 points into Int
-[X] 15 points into WIS
-[X] 5 points into WP

I'll go along with this. I think we'd do better with dexterity rather than luck, but this does boost intellect and wisdom. I am also disappointed you chose WP over Vitality. I suppose as a member of the Inquisition we'll have a chance to become a badass psyker, but I was kinda hoping for psyker/gunslinger.

mrttao · Jan 10, 2016

[X] 14 to DEX, 15 to VIT, 6 to WP, 15 to WIS

Daniel14541 · Jan 10, 2016

Mrttao? Why are you spreading out the stats? Especially when you argue so hard for specialization usually? Int improves how quickly we pick up skills and skills determine how good we are more quickly then stats. They also determine for the most part how much you can survive... defensive skills.

Asmodemus · Jan 10, 2016

Well we're low level right now, not sure what threats we're going to be up against and a well rounded character means we're more likely to survive whatever may be thrown at us.

Amping up on INT doesn't really help if as the GM said training results will be low.
Putting a bunch of points into INT now may help training in the long run but if it means we get less than a fifth of it back into other areas useful for combat before our next fight I'd be willing to give up efficiency in favor of more assured success.

mrttao · Jan 10, 2016

Daniel14541 said:
Mrttao? Why are you spreading out the stats?

I am usually against it because of the mechanics, however when I brought it up here QM explained some modifications he made to the mechanics, such as the fact that raising stat points will not affect the rate of stat grinding which is a separate thing to stats gained through level ups.

Also strategic voting. My own vote was to put everything into dex but nobody else voted for it.

the current 3 leading plans are
First place:

mrttao said:
[X] How do you spend your points?
-[X] Raise everything to 20 then put last point into Strength

Second place

-[X] plan Lucky Magi
-[X] 15 points into luck
-[X] 15 points into Int
-[X] 15 points into WIS
-[X] 5 points into WP

Third place:

[X] 14 to DEX, 15 to VIT, 6 to WP, 15 to WIS

Considering what QM said about luck being sub par, and considering the setting I don't want to go with plan lucky wizard which has aiming at becoming a luck build/psyker hybrid.
14 dex (ranged damage, dodge, speed), 15 vit (HP), 6WP (resist chaos), 15 wis (can use skills more often) looks like a decent ranged fighter build. Not as good as my "put everything in dex" plan, but eh, it will do.

Although the fact QM said that int boosts our XP gain rate does concern me a bit as it encourages us to be a super wizard in yet quest (if it does turn that way i will vote for it, just to be clear)

Daniel14541 · Jan 10, 2016

Asmodemus said:
Well we're low level right now, not sure what threats we're going to be up against and a well rounded character means we're more likely to survive whatever may be thrown at us.

Amping up on INT doesn't really help if as the GM said training results will be low.
Putting a bunch of points into INT now may help training in the long run but if it means we get less than a fifth of it back into other areas useful for combat before our next fight I'd be willing to give up efficiency in favor of more assured success.

When did he ever say training results with a 60 or more intellect guy would give low results? No seriously? Why even play if that much specialization doesn't make a difference for a stat? We put it all into a stat whose sole purpose is to improve how quickly we level skills and we don't get a return on that investment? Why is intellect getting nerfed?

mrttao · Jan 10, 2016

Daniel14541 said:
Int improves how quickly we pick up skills and skills determine how good we are more quickly then stats. They also determine for the most part how much you can survive... defensive skills.

Are you suggesting an all int build?

Daniel14541 · Jan 10, 2016

mrttao said:
I am usually against it because of the mechanics, however when I brought it up here QM explained some modifications he made to the mechanics, such as the fact that raising stat points will not affect the rate of stat grinding which is a separate thing to stats gained through level ups.

Also strategic voting. My own vote was to put everything into dex but nobody else voted for it.

the current 3 leading plans are

First place:

Second place

Third place:

Considering what QM said about luck being sub par, and considering the setting I don't want to go with plan lucky wizard which has aiming at becoming a luck build/psyker hybrid.

14 dex (ranged damage, dodge, speed), 15 vit (HP), 6WP (resist chaos), 15 wis (can use skills more often) looks like a decent ranged fighter build. Not as good as my "put everything in dex" plan, but eh, it will do.

Although the fact QM said that int boosts our XP gain rate does concern me a bit as it encourages us to be a super wizard in yet quest

That still doesn't explain why your not rushing for s skill grinding build with intellect though?

Daniel14541 · Jan 10, 2016

mrttao said:
Are you suggesting an all int build?

Isn't int the only stat effecting skills? And are not skills half of the equation to determine our combat effectiveness? Does this not mean that the more intellect we have sooner the faster our effectiveness in basically all things improves?

am I wrong on any of these points?

mrttao · Jan 10, 2016

Daniel14541 said:
That still doesn't explain why your not rushing for s skill grinding build with intellect though?

strategic voting
So far only a single person voted for this, it is tied for 9th (last) place with the other 1 vote plans (my own plan also had only 1 vote and was also tied for 9th place).
So I changed my vote to one of the top 3 plans

Daniel14541 said:
Isn't int the only stat effecting skills? And are not skills half of the equation to determine our combat effectiveness? Does this not mean that the more intellect we have sooner the faster our effectiveness in basically all things improves?

am I wrong on any of these points?

I think you might be right, which is actually a solid point in favor of it.
However, I just don't think there is support for such a build from other voters. If a couple of people express their interest (they don't have to vote, just say they are interested) then I will change my vote to support your plan. But at the moment it doesn't seem to have the interest.

One of those things I wish we did ranked voting on

NegativeHorizon · Jan 10, 2016

[X] Boggs(Inquisition)

[X] How do you spend your points?
-[X] 15 to WIS/Dex, 10 to VIT/INT.

King Arthur said:
Which would let us, a man with magic powers that will eventually make us one of the strongest beings in the universe, both do the most good and effect the most positive change?

Cause, I'm thinking the Guard, becoming a famous leader of millions would let us do more then being a spy but, you know, I could be wrong. I'm not exactly super knowledgeable on WH40K.

In MMO terms, going IG is likely to put us against lots and lots of mobs (Ork Boyz, Cultists, DE Warriors, Guardians, etc.) and some minibosses. Going Inquisition will put us up against a lot of raid bosses (Haemonculi, Warbosses, Daemons and so on).

Lot's of EXP potential in the latter, but it's risky to the point of suicidal.

I like those odds.

Daniel14541 · Jan 10, 2016

Okay people? Skills and stats. They are equally balanced on two sides of an equation we know what it takes to improve both. That is long repetitive actions of repeating one thing again and again until it succeeds. What we now have is an opportunity to improve the one stat that has effects on both sides of this equation. Intelligence. It is a stat that acts as a literal stat to be checked on one side of the equation but at the same time it also improves the learning rate of every skill. Not just physical, social, or intellectual it effects all three's learning pace. How to dodge is part technique after all. Its not just the dexterity stat. Same as shooting or taking a hit or staunching bleeding. With high int we can learn all of these things and add them onto our stats. It is the stat that keeps on giving. Dex and str and vit and all of the others are one time permanent buffs to one specific area. On the other hand int positively effects each of these stats by giving you much better skills to use with them.

And yes I typed this all up on my phone, I now either leave this up to be championed by someone with a keyboard or to languish forgotten. Just know that you the players chose not to go with the objectively best use of our points here and we will pay for it later 8n the quest. We could have been so much better if we had simply been smart about this.

mrttao · Jan 10, 2016

Daniel14541 said:
Intelligence. It is a stat that acts as...

Daniel14541 said:
We could have been so much better if we had simply been smart about this.

I see what you did there. Could have been smart... could have raised int. funny.
Well, you convinced me with logic
[x] Daniel14541

King Arthur · Jan 10, 2016

Daniel14541 said:
Okay people? Skills and stats. They are equally balanced on two sides of an equation we know what it takes to improve both. That is long repetitive actions of repeating one thing again and again until it succeeds. What we now have is an opportunity to improve the one stat that has effects on both sides of this equation. Intelligence. It is a stat that acts as a literal stat to be checked on one side of the equation but at the same time it also improves the learning rate of every skill. Not just physical, social, or intellectual it effects all three's learning pace. How to dodge is part technique after all. Its not just the dexterity stat. Same as shooting or taking a hit or staunching bleeding. With high int we can learn all of these things and add them onto our stats. It is the stat that keeps on giving. Dex and str and vit and all of the others are one time permanent buffs to one specific area. On the other hand int positively effects each of these stats by giving you much better skills to use with them.

And yes I typed this all up on my phone, I now either leave this up to be championed by someone with a keyboard or to languish forgotten. Just know that you the players chose not to go with the objectively best use of our points here and we will pay for it later 8n the quest. We could have been so much better if we had simply been smart about this.

Which one's your vote again?

Daniel14541 · Jan 10, 2016

King Arthur said:
Which one's your vote again?

All into intelligence.

That basically improves how quickly we improve all our skills and not just physical or mental or otherwise but all our skills and at the same time raises a stat.

good night everyone... I'm really tired now so I'm heading to bed. Hopefully the smart choice wins...

King Arthur · Jan 10, 2016

Daniel14541 said:
All into intelligence.

That basically improves how quickly we improve all our skills and not just physical or mental or otherwise but all our skills and at the same time raises a stat.

good night everyone... I'm really tired now so I'm heading to bed. Hopefully the smart choice wins...

Honestly, I'm just uncomfortable with any plan that doesn't raise dex and vit cause, you know, we sort of suck at fighting people and that will make us better.

I'd be down with 14 into DEX, 15 into VIT, and 31 into INT though. Would be enough to get us to 25 in both DEX and VIT, making us competent in both and getting us perks for them, as well as bringing us to 41 on INT.

That good with anyone?

Wwind · Jan 10, 2016

mrttao said:
Are you sure you are not mixing astartes las guns with PDF las guns? las guns come from anything between a pocking thingie that does piddling damage to spaceship weapons.
I am not entirely sure about the numbers but I think most PDF las guns are not gonna harm an astartes no matter where they hit, well, not with a single shot

Standard Mars pattern lasgun would probably only hurt with an occasional lucky shot. However, Hellgun would work just fine. The problem is that getting anything but the most basic of things is nearly impossible for a PDF or guardsman.

mrttao · Jan 10, 2016

Wwind said:
Standard Mars pattern lasgun would probably only hurt with an occasional lucky shot. However, Hellgun would work just fine. The problem is that getting anything but the most basic of things is nearly impossible for a PDF or guardsman.

Yea, I agree

King Arthur said:
I'd be down with 14 into DEX, 15 into VIT, and 31 into INT though.

You know what, me too
[x] 14 into DEX, 15 into VIT, and 31 into INT
This more than doubles our dex and vit, which is kinda vitals as awesome as stats are

Asmodemus · Jan 10, 2016

Daniel14541 said:
When did he ever say training results with a 60 or more intellect guy would give low results?

jacobplm said:
That's because it was basically the prologue. From now on training is going to be a bit less effective, since prologue be over.

Daniel14541 said:
Why even play if that much specialization doesn't make a difference for a stat?

Because the story is interesting and it's more interesting to be encouraged to use all you have for smart builds rather than point at a single stat and go "THIS STAT IS THE GOD STAT AND WE MUST PUMP IT TO A MILLION AND WE WIN FOREVER!".

Seriously, if all int is the path to victory, I suggest removing that stat entirely as a 'patch' as that's boring.

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