- Pronouns
- He/Him
Given that domesticatable super-pigs are available to all, caribou domestication is succeeding in the northlands, and giant sloth cavalry has been mentioned, I don't think that this is much of a concern.
From Stone to the Stars
- Thread starter Redium
- Start date
- Original Alt. History
Sol Zagato
senseless brute
Ehh, we'll have SOME animals if we don't go out of our way for more, but we still have shit immune system diversity because most everyone in the Americas is descended from one group of 100 people. We have to up our game.
Pump the shit out of urbanization. We want giant cities on the junctions of river networks bringing vast amounts of food. We want people playing with fire and rocks and arbitrarily hot fires to get iron rather than OTL's "well we got plenty of bronze..." solution
THAT is what gave Europeans such great disease resistance(and similarly why when European started knocking on China's door, the plagues didn't do much damage, China was urbanized for just as long)
That said the OTL issue was that the landings happened at a time after a civilizational collapse, before the reformations got going. I.e. If you wound up that way you'd be putting up no resistance regardless.
Sol Zagato
senseless brute
You're right about urbanization (cities is what I meant by Tall) but alone it didn't help the Aztecs much.
As for the Chinese, their urbanization helped, but by and large they were already swimming in the same united Eurasian disease pool.
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Not THAT similar. And considering how the Europeans generally got punked by tropical diseases, mere geographical continuity is nowhere as powerful as direct contact.
The thing is they crashed and then got kicked in the balls repeatedly on the way down
Professor Vesca
Good News Everyone!
We need to pull a Japanese Miracle, in essence. We need to be willing to be flexible. When the colonists show up, but guns from them. But don't just buy guns, go to the colonies and woo the blacksmiths, the colliers, the gun smiths, the soldiers, the generals. Woo them with riches if they would just come live over here with us and teach our people their ways.
If we make our own guns, we won't be relying on our potential rivals to arm us. Another thing to consider is that originally the Spanish went to the new world to trade. They wanted a trading partner, and a potential ally to help them fight France and Great Britain. What ended up happening was that Cortez brought an army of mercenaries with him, managed to overthrow the Aztec empire because no one liked them, and then presented a fait accompli to the Spanish crown.
They were probably irked, but the mountain of silver and gold probably helped make them feel better.
Over 80% of the Mesoamerican tribes died out due to disease, slavery, and overwork. But, even today, cultural touchstones lived on from the Aztecs. Dio de muertos is a good example. Another are the many place names. Many streets and towns still have their old nahuatl pronunciations, and the language itself is still spoken, even if native speakers are decreasing in number.
There are ways to survive European contact and colonization. We probably won't come out of it completely intact, but it is doable. The big problem won't be surviving contact, it will be surviving the colonies and their tender mercies.
The Iroquois for example, lost a lot of territory to Virginia, because the colonists kept encroaching, the Iroquois would threaten war, and the governor would appease them and buy off the land. We cannot allow such a practice, we have to be firm on our borders.
If we make our own guns, we won't be relying on our potential rivals to arm us. Another thing to consider is that originally the Spanish went to the new world to trade. They wanted a trading partner, and a potential ally to help them fight France and Great Britain. What ended up happening was that Cortez brought an army of mercenaries with him, managed to overthrow the Aztec empire because no one liked them, and then presented a fait accompli to the Spanish crown.
They were probably irked, but the mountain of silver and gold probably helped make them feel better.
Over 80% of the Mesoamerican tribes died out due to disease, slavery, and overwork. But, even today, cultural touchstones lived on from the Aztecs. Dio de muertos is a good example. Another are the many place names. Many streets and towns still have their old nahuatl pronunciations, and the language itself is still spoken, even if native speakers are decreasing in number.
There are ways to survive European contact and colonization. We probably won't come out of it completely intact, but it is doable. The big problem won't be surviving contact, it will be surviving the colonies and their tender mercies.
The Iroquois for example, lost a lot of territory to Virginia, because the colonists kept encroaching, the Iroquois would threaten war, and the governor would appease them and buy off the land. We cannot allow such a practice, we have to be firm on our borders.
Sol Zagato
senseless brute
Well duh. Because those tropical diseases didn't have vectors in northern climates. While other near-tropical diseases like tuberculosis became endemic to Europe because they weren't so dependant. What you had in Eurasia was a continuous band of at least similar climates acting like a highway, giving out bubonic plague and flu to everyone.
Right, which is why avoiding a crash is important too. Notably, however, the Mississipians and Amazonians ceased to exist without any further intervention, much like half of the tribes in New England right before the Pilgrims showed up.
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Professor Vesca
Good News Everyone!
Europe also saw depopulation in similar numbers as the new world. During the renaissance italy for example saw major depopulation of their cities and the people fled to the countryside.
I imagine if a fleet showed up in the wake of the Black Death, they'd probably have had an easy time too.
Sol Zagato
senseless brute
I just checked the wiki; Wow, I was taught the toll averaged 30%. When did this new research estimating 60% overall come in, and what new discoveries was it based on?
The disease-death number alone was up around 80-90% in the Americas, absent the direct atrocities. That shit would happen even in the missions trying to keep the Indians alive, and again, could be 95-100% in large areas, which only happened in small spots in Europe.
The keys besides individual disease terribleness:
1. Not enough healthy people to feed and clean the sick (people who would have recovered die).
2. Multiple pandemic diseases. This may have happened in the black death, with bubonic and pneumatic plague. But definitely happened in the Americas.
3. Lack of cultural adaptations to stem the spread.
Also, virgin-field Tuberculosis is like something out of a horror movie.
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I think the 30% value likely references direct deaths.
60% after you include dependents and disrupted food and essential services, plus the unrest.
- Location
- Canada
This should explain some things, also its interesting.
Really we should just focus on being able to fight plagues, things like cleaning tools, and the concept of isolation a sick person and keeping clean around them, would be the best way we can defend ourselves from the coming storm. Although any sickness that dogs give us should prevent that avenue at least.
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17.0 Man-Beast Mayhem
[X] [Action] Check on the Northlands. The Cave of Stars did kill their High Shaman. (Trade: Northlands)
[X] [Action] Stay home and farm. (Expand Agriculture: Quinoa)
[X] [Value] The spirits of land and stone have since been bound by mortar and wrought stone. (Value Synergy)
[X] [Pearl] Expand the Pearl Diver's salterns with the People's Stone magic.
[X] [Dedication] Scenes of Mountains and Natural Geography.
After the debacle where the Head Shaman of the Northlands died, Aeva had made sure to reach out far more extensively to the People's northern neighbours. Her father had courted cordial dealings with the northerners and that was something that she was keen to continue.
It was obvious that the the Northlands had not taken the death of their High Shaman well. By traveling to the People's temple, she was implicitly under the People's protection. The fact that she died inside the temple, what could be considered the heart of the People's temporal and spiritual power made the situation worse. It implied either a negligence or careless disregard for the woman the Northlands considered their most holy.
The traders Aeva sent forth were loaded down with gifts; salt, gemstones, sugar, pearls, obsidian, bone, and seashells. It was an appreciable amount of wealth, even for the People with their wide-ranging trade contacts. For those who lived a harsh and nomadic existence, scrapping at thin soil and following the endless herds, it was probably more than the entire tribe had seen in their collective lifetimes. A mix of the pretty and the useful.
When the gifts arrived, the traders' reception was poor. They had almost immediately been greeted with violence; arrows, slings, and javelins raining down upon the caravan. The People's traders were warriors one and all, a sensible precaution in a dangerous world, and were easily able to repel the ambush. Despite, obviously, being unwanted, the group decided to proceed. When the Northlanders came for them the second time, the People nearly broke and ran.
They were like demons, one of the the traders eventually reported. They came shortly after dawn, striking while the People were breaking camp, man-beasts that fought with thrown javelins and long stabbing spears. They looked like caribou, but with the head of a man protected by an enormous rack of antlers. They were fast, racing in and out of the trails that the Northlanders had carved in their wanderings, whooping and shouting. Screaming their victory. It was impossible for the People's archers to get a bead on them, by the time they could draw a bow, another man-beast would be on top of them. The People's spears served well enough, keeping them away, but it wouldn't turn the tide. Javelins and arrows eventually found their marks, downing warriors until they would never rise again.
It was pure fluke that gave the People victory. One of the man-beasts charged too close and struck down one of the Fangs assigned to the caravan, and spooked her dogs. They lost their minds, howling and leaping up at the man-beast with all the savagery of wolves. The man-beast reared up, dumping its top half on the ground. That seemed to set of a chain reaction; wolves called out in sympathy from the forests all around the battle and the man-beasts vanished.
As the whoops finally died down, the trade caravan slowly pulled itself together. The bravest of their number slowly approached the fallen man-beast and was horrified by what he saw. The man-beast wasn't dead. Instead, it was rutting in the dirt, unleashing unearthly twin-toned screams. The... thing had been broken in half, its back and head sheared off from its body. It was a lethal wound, instantly fatal. Despite that, the man-beast screamed and screamed and screamed.
It was not going to die. Whatever it was, it was no living thing.
Faint shouts were heard on the horizon and the People's wolves let out a slow, rumbling growl.
Terrified, something snapped within the trade caravan. They broke. They turned their backs and fled, leaving the gifts with which they had been entrusted, and abandoning their dead. All that they stopped to take with them was their canoes and a minimum of supplies.
Bone-deep frustration swelled up from the depth of Aeva's soul once she finally heard the story. Even she, by no means as astute as her father, could tell that the utter failure of the gift of recompense would mean trouble. She tried to put together a second attempt, but her efforts quickly fell apart. By the time she had another gift of wealth ready, the first caravan had spread tales of their experiences at the man-beasts far and wide. Embellished heavily, they quickly took route as dark rumours; implications of evil spirits, possession, and deeds of fell black magic paralyzed the People.
There would be no second caravan. Aeva could not muster the passion to crush the rumours and she lacked the familiarity with the Northlands' magics to dispute the rumours with rhetoric. All that she could do was pound on the fact that the Northlands' High Shaman had walked within the Cave of Stars and been struck dead on the spot for her blasphemy.
Aeva's fears were soon justified as tales of fires burning in the hinterlands around the Fingers reached her ears. The Northlands had come south and they came in force. Out lying farms, hunting lodges, and other small outposts were falling before their might.
War had returned to the People.
Debilitating Belief Gained: Murder of Man-Beasts!
Leaning on her connections, Aeva put out a call for aid among the People's trade partners. She did not expect much, and to be honest, she was not disappointed. Arrow Lake sent a small rabble that called themselves warriors. The gesture was likely more than most could expect of a foreigner tribe, but their purpose was obvious and transparent. So far, the Fingers had absorbed the brunt of the Northlands' fury and their traders had seen that. If the settlement there were to fall, Arrow Lake was the next closest. The rabble were there to serve more as a tripwire, assessing the People's condition, than true aid. There were reports of losses from raids from the Mountain Clans, but it sounded like the clans had been bloodied, although not, perhaps, by Arrow Lake.
The Pearl Divers offered nothing to the People, despite the fact that the People's workers worked side-by-side with them in expanding their salterns. It was more than a little slap to the face, despite their offered logic, and it tempted Aeva greatly to recall their workers. All of them were fit and young; the People that would be necessary to win a war. Not to mention the number of Ember-Eyes that had been dispatched to oversee the project. On the other hand, the Pearl Divers were not wrong when they suggested that they could face raids as well. There was a river the drained into Wide Lake, east of the Fingers that went all the way back to the Northlands. That could easily serve as an artery for raiders to strike them instead.
Should the People pull their workers back from the Pearl Divers, freeing up young men, skilled labour, and Ember-Eye overseers?
[ ] [Recall] Yes
[ ] [Recall] No
What came as a complete surprise to Aeva was the reaction of the Peace Builders. They were driven forward by the Skalds. The warrior-singers had heard of the People's plight, and let it be known to all throughout their wanderings. They spoke of friends they had made, family, kith and kin, among the People; spreading their stories of hardship and loss. It started small, but before long, the tribes of the Peace Builders had begged to be allowed to answer the call. They had surged out of their holdings in the south, in numbers that strained belief. They brought nearly as many warriors as the People could field, and they did that without stripping their southern garrisons! Each and every warrior that came before the People was bright eyed and righteous, filled with the belief that they needed to defend their cousins in the People.
It shocked Aeva, leaving her deeply wary at how effectively the Peace Builders could motivate their populace through use of the Skalds. Their warriors were professional, she could tell, but they would not match up against one of the Fangs or Frost-Scarred. Even an Ember-Eye that had turned their gifts to war would defeat likely defeat one of these southern warriors. What they had, beyond the numbers, was fanaticism. Each and every warrior from the south was ready to die, all of their own will, and on the words of the Skalds.
When the Peace Builders finally fell on the Northlands, they smashed them. It was almost mocking, how easy the Northlands' man-beasts were crushed underfoot. It affirmed the spiritual curse laid upon the People for their profane breaking of the Northlands and their man-beasts. All of the loses that the People had experienced in the earliest stages of the war were reversed. The momentum was even enough that the People's and Peace Builders' forces were able to capture the lake at the southern border of the Northlands' traditional territory.
Actually moving beyond that point was likely to be difficult. The Northlands were crisscrossed with numerous trails and the Northlanders knew them like the back of their hand. The depth and speed with which it allowed them to maneuver was unparalleled. What few temporary dwellings they did had were well spread out and could be moved with only minimal preparation. War was always difficult, an endless, deadly hunt, but the Northlands' man-beasts and the endless trails made the situation far, far more difficult than it had any right to be.
While many resented the necessity of 'being saved' (even if Aeva knew they could have eventually pushed back the Northlanders with time and casualties), it gave the People time to consolidate their borders and consider the advancements of the last few years. The Cave of Stars had taught the People many lessons. Not only in managing large works of stone and the beauty of the World, but in the nature of the spirits.
Value Upgraded: Stone-Skinned -> Terrestrial Fetich
Value Synergy Detected: Wondrous World + Terrestrial Fetich. Combine Values?
[ ] [Value] Yes
[ ] [Value] No
The People had always been willing to shape the land, to better put it to use protecting themselves. It was, perhaps, one of the most important things that the world could be manipulated for, but it wasn't the only one. The People carved rows into the earth for crops and tended plants along the riverbank as well. The interior of many places was trackless in many places, yet untouched in any meaningful manner due to lack of trails, but the People's hunters were comfortable moving beneath tree and over root.
The bounty and spiritual power present in those areas could be enhanced, producing larger bounties of food, defended areas, and other benefits. All that was required was for the People to modify and reinforce what was already there. It was a task where there were many ways to do it, many of them wrong. It was up to the People to find the solution that was most effective.
Actions (Pick 2 and a Tribute Focus + 1 Admin and 1 Art)
Actions that could be locked in this turn: Expand Hunting
Automatic Actions: Trade (Arrow Lake,Northlands, Pearl Divers), Expand Aquaculture (Rice, Fishing), Prepare for Ordeal
Note: You are At War with the Northlands. The Peace Builders have offered a full, unconditional Alliance. Arrow Lake has offered a limited defense pact. The Pearl Divers are watching their borders.
AN: A Moratorium is in effect! All votes before the next threadmark will not be counted. I will answer questions tomorrow, but if people could pare them down to fewer essential ones, it would make turn around faster. Tag me for any new questions.
[X] [Action] Stay home and farm. (Expand Agriculture: Quinoa)
[X] [Value] The spirits of land and stone have since been bound by mortar and wrought stone. (Value Synergy)
[X] [Pearl] Expand the Pearl Diver's salterns with the People's Stone magic.
[X] [Dedication] Scenes of Mountains and Natural Geography.
After the debacle where the Head Shaman of the Northlands died, Aeva had made sure to reach out far more extensively to the People's northern neighbours. Her father had courted cordial dealings with the northerners and that was something that she was keen to continue.
It was obvious that the the Northlands had not taken the death of their High Shaman well. By traveling to the People's temple, she was implicitly under the People's protection. The fact that she died inside the temple, what could be considered the heart of the People's temporal and spiritual power made the situation worse. It implied either a negligence or careless disregard for the woman the Northlands considered their most holy.
The traders Aeva sent forth were loaded down with gifts; salt, gemstones, sugar, pearls, obsidian, bone, and seashells. It was an appreciable amount of wealth, even for the People with their wide-ranging trade contacts. For those who lived a harsh and nomadic existence, scrapping at thin soil and following the endless herds, it was probably more than the entire tribe had seen in their collective lifetimes. A mix of the pretty and the useful.
When the gifts arrived, the traders' reception was poor. They had almost immediately been greeted with violence; arrows, slings, and javelins raining down upon the caravan. The People's traders were warriors one and all, a sensible precaution in a dangerous world, and were easily able to repel the ambush. Despite, obviously, being unwanted, the group decided to proceed. When the Northlanders came for them the second time, the People nearly broke and ran.
They were like demons, one of the the traders eventually reported. They came shortly after dawn, striking while the People were breaking camp, man-beasts that fought with thrown javelins and long stabbing spears. They looked like caribou, but with the head of a man protected by an enormous rack of antlers. They were fast, racing in and out of the trails that the Northlanders had carved in their wanderings, whooping and shouting. Screaming their victory. It was impossible for the People's archers to get a bead on them, by the time they could draw a bow, another man-beast would be on top of them. The People's spears served well enough, keeping them away, but it wouldn't turn the tide. Javelins and arrows eventually found their marks, downing warriors until they would never rise again.
It was pure fluke that gave the People victory. One of the man-beasts charged too close and struck down one of the Fangs assigned to the caravan, and spooked her dogs. They lost their minds, howling and leaping up at the man-beast with all the savagery of wolves. The man-beast reared up, dumping its top half on the ground. That seemed to set of a chain reaction; wolves called out in sympathy from the forests all around the battle and the man-beasts vanished.
As the whoops finally died down, the trade caravan slowly pulled itself together. The bravest of their number slowly approached the fallen man-beast and was horrified by what he saw. The man-beast wasn't dead. Instead, it was rutting in the dirt, unleashing unearthly twin-toned screams. The... thing had been broken in half, its back and head sheared off from its body. It was a lethal wound, instantly fatal. Despite that, the man-beast screamed and screamed and screamed.
It was not going to die. Whatever it was, it was no living thing.
Faint shouts were heard on the horizon and the People's wolves let out a slow, rumbling growl.
Terrified, something snapped within the trade caravan. They broke. They turned their backs and fled, leaving the gifts with which they had been entrusted, and abandoning their dead. All that they stopped to take with them was their canoes and a minimum of supplies.
Bone-deep frustration swelled up from the depth of Aeva's soul once she finally heard the story. Even she, by no means as astute as her father, could tell that the utter failure of the gift of recompense would mean trouble. She tried to put together a second attempt, but her efforts quickly fell apart. By the time she had another gift of wealth ready, the first caravan had spread tales of their experiences at the man-beasts far and wide. Embellished heavily, they quickly took route as dark rumours; implications of evil spirits, possession, and deeds of fell black magic paralyzed the People.
There would be no second caravan. Aeva could not muster the passion to crush the rumours and she lacked the familiarity with the Northlands' magics to dispute the rumours with rhetoric. All that she could do was pound on the fact that the Northlands' High Shaman had walked within the Cave of Stars and been struck dead on the spot for her blasphemy.
Aeva's fears were soon justified as tales of fires burning in the hinterlands around the Fingers reached her ears. The Northlands had come south and they came in force. Out lying farms, hunting lodges, and other small outposts were falling before their might.
War had returned to the People.
Debilitating Belief Gained: Murder of Man-Beasts!
Heavily have the People suffered at the hands of the Northlands' strange warriors. A mix of man and beast, these fearsome creatures are of a type that are clearly not human. Famed for their ability to fade into and traverse the forests faster than a human would find possible, they are the bane and fear of the People. Already, clan matriarchs begin to tuck their grandchildren into bed at night with stories of the demonic man-beasts and their propensity to steal away naughty children.
Effects: Morale penalty for facing Northland ???? doubled, research into ???? slowed.
Effects: Morale penalty for facing Northland ???? doubled, research into ???? slowed.
Leaning on her connections, Aeva put out a call for aid among the People's trade partners. She did not expect much, and to be honest, she was not disappointed. Arrow Lake sent a small rabble that called themselves warriors. The gesture was likely more than most could expect of a foreigner tribe, but their purpose was obvious and transparent. So far, the Fingers had absorbed the brunt of the Northlands' fury and their traders had seen that. If the settlement there were to fall, Arrow Lake was the next closest. The rabble were there to serve more as a tripwire, assessing the People's condition, than true aid. There were reports of losses from raids from the Mountain Clans, but it sounded like the clans had been bloodied, although not, perhaps, by Arrow Lake.
The Pearl Divers offered nothing to the People, despite the fact that the People's workers worked side-by-side with them in expanding their salterns. It was more than a little slap to the face, despite their offered logic, and it tempted Aeva greatly to recall their workers. All of them were fit and young; the People that would be necessary to win a war. Not to mention the number of Ember-Eyes that had been dispatched to oversee the project. On the other hand, the Pearl Divers were not wrong when they suggested that they could face raids as well. There was a river the drained into Wide Lake, east of the Fingers that went all the way back to the Northlands. That could easily serve as an artery for raiders to strike them instead.
Should the People pull their workers back from the Pearl Divers, freeing up young men, skilled labour, and Ember-Eye overseers?
[ ] [Recall] Yes
[ ] [Recall] No
What came as a complete surprise to Aeva was the reaction of the Peace Builders. They were driven forward by the Skalds. The warrior-singers had heard of the People's plight, and let it be known to all throughout their wanderings. They spoke of friends they had made, family, kith and kin, among the People; spreading their stories of hardship and loss. It started small, but before long, the tribes of the Peace Builders had begged to be allowed to answer the call. They had surged out of their holdings in the south, in numbers that strained belief. They brought nearly as many warriors as the People could field, and they did that without stripping their southern garrisons! Each and every warrior that came before the People was bright eyed and righteous, filled with the belief that they needed to defend their cousins in the People.
It shocked Aeva, leaving her deeply wary at how effectively the Peace Builders could motivate their populace through use of the Skalds. Their warriors were professional, she could tell, but they would not match up against one of the Fangs or Frost-Scarred. Even an Ember-Eye that had turned their gifts to war would defeat likely defeat one of these southern warriors. What they had, beyond the numbers, was fanaticism. Each and every warrior from the south was ready to die, all of their own will, and on the words of the Skalds.
When the Peace Builders finally fell on the Northlands, they smashed them. It was almost mocking, how easy the Northlands' man-beasts were crushed underfoot. It affirmed the spiritual curse laid upon the People for their profane breaking of the Northlands and their man-beasts. All of the loses that the People had experienced in the earliest stages of the war were reversed. The momentum was even enough that the People's and Peace Builders' forces were able to capture the lake at the southern border of the Northlands' traditional territory.
Actually moving beyond that point was likely to be difficult. The Northlands were crisscrossed with numerous trails and the Northlanders knew them like the back of their hand. The depth and speed with which it allowed them to maneuver was unparalleled. What few temporary dwellings they did had were well spread out and could be moved with only minimal preparation. War was always difficult, an endless, deadly hunt, but the Northlands' man-beasts and the endless trails made the situation far, far more difficult than it had any right to be.
While many resented the necessity of 'being saved' (even if Aeva knew they could have eventually pushed back the Northlanders with time and casualties), it gave the People time to consolidate their borders and consider the advancements of the last few years. The Cave of Stars had taught the People many lessons. Not only in managing large works of stone and the beauty of the World, but in the nature of the spirits.
Value Upgraded: Stone-Skinned -> Terrestrial Fetich
Every location is one that is touched by the spirits and imbued with a special character. It is through crude and laborious work that these places can be augmented and turned into fonts of spiritual strength. This spiritual strength can be turned to productive purposes and harnessed fully by the People.
Pros: Artificial structures more effective and augment bonuses from terrain, improved Natural Wonders
Cons: Increased ritualization, Building costs increased
Pros: Artificial structures more effective and augment bonuses from terrain, improved Natural Wonders
Cons: Increased ritualization, Building costs increased
Value Synergy Detected: Wondrous World + Terrestrial Fetich. Combine Values?
[ ] [Value] Yes
[ ] [Value] No
The People had always been willing to shape the land, to better put it to use protecting themselves. It was, perhaps, one of the most important things that the world could be manipulated for, but it wasn't the only one. The People carved rows into the earth for crops and tended plants along the riverbank as well. The interior of many places was trackless in many places, yet untouched in any meaningful manner due to lack of trails, but the People's hunters were comfortable moving beneath tree and over root.
The bounty and spiritual power present in those areas could be enhanced, producing larger bounties of food, defended areas, and other benefits. All that was required was for the People to modify and reinforce what was already there. It was a task where there were many ways to do it, many of them wrong. It was up to the People to find the solution that was most effective.
Actions (Pick 2 and a Tribute Focus + 1 Admin and 1 Art)
Annual Festival [Art] - The People deserve to party! Build morale by opening up the stockpiles and having a night of feasts, dancing, music and fun.
Expand Hunting (Dogs, Orkers, Traps, Herd Animals, Prize Animals) [Martial] - Improve upon the hunting techniques of the People. Work to increase the amount of meat that is available to consume and empower the People. A risky activity and one that requires a great investment of skill and energy, this provides the largest gains of food.
Expand Agriculture (Quinoa, Gourds, Corn) [Admin] - The People have come to realize the bounty of the world is often not enough. They need to tame it and carefully manage the foods that are so important in sating their appetites.
Expand Aquaculture (Wild Rice, Mussels, Fishing) [Admin] - Most of the People live close to a river and are able to gather one of numerous sources of food. Often much easier to obtain than food from hunting and much less risky, these sources of food are much more vulnerable to shifts of the seasons and that of the weather.
Explore (Specify?) [Wonderful World] [Martial] [Diplomacy] - There is much to be found in the world. Countless things, often placed by the hand of the spirits themselves. It is up to the People to find them.
Found Settlement (includes: Brick Wall, Shrine, Sugar Shack) [Terrestrial Fetich] [Admin] - While the People build homes where they will, often where food or resources can easily be found, these places are settled without organization or care. By founding a formal settlement, it becomes possible for central authority to exert itself before the People become too fracas. (Requires: 2 tiers of Econ and excess population. Available locations: North Bay, River Fork, River Bend, Wide River. 1 settlement possible to found.)
Manage Forests (Sugar, Timber, Medicine, Gathering) [Wondrous World] [Admin] - While the forests provide the least of the People's food, they have provided that which is most useful. Sugar is wonderous in taste and highly sought after as a trade goods. Evergreen tea soothes aching bodies and quiets headaches. There is much to be found in the unknown, perhaps rare, but of significant value.
Promote Folk Wrestling [Flat Arrow Outlook] [Martial] - The People are fracas and have a tendency towards physical confrontations and violence. By carefully channeling this tendency, it's possible to develop further skill at war and turn hunters into skilled and deadly raiders.
Raid (Target?) [Flat Arrow Outlook] [Retributive Justice] [Martial] - The hunting of beasts turns now into the hunting of men. Strike down those who oppose the People so that we may be kept safe.
Study Travel [Wonderful Word] [Art] - Invest time in learning how most effectively to travel. The world is harsh and strange, learning how to traverse it will save the People much in effort and food.
Study Fire [Art] - The greatest and most capricious of spirits, fire is of immense use to the People. The recent discovery of lime and the founding of the Ember-Eyed has spurred substantial interest in developing understanding of this forceful spirit further.
Study Stone [Terrestrial Fetich] [Art] - A solid and stable spirit, the People have found numerous type of stone with different properties. How these properties can be best served to support the People is unknown. Learning to work the material will likely pay enormous dividends in the future.
Trade (Arrow Lake, Peace Builders, Pearl Divers, Island Makers, Northlands) [Wondrous World] [Diplomacy] [Martial] - It is clear that the People do not hold all that is significant within the world. There are other tribes that hold interesting, useful or beautiful objects. By offering up some as gifts, things that the People do not have will be provided in return.
Train Warriors (Warriors, Holy Order) [Flat Arrow Outlook] [Martial] [Admin] - The People have warriors well trained in the art of killing. By diverting more young people into these professions, preparations for war can be established. In a way, it is like knapping obsidian into a knife. An action that takes deliberation and planning, forethought, to be useful.
Prepare for Ordeal [Trial By Fire] [Admin] - The spirits test the People, always. These tests are ones that require careful preparation and forethought. The People will be prepared. A crisis well managed is a sign of spiritual favour, one that's botched causes the People to further suffer.
Tribute Foci
Defense - Walls, Defensive Structures, Trails, Folk Wrestling
Food - Agriculture, Aquaculture, Herding, Hunting
Magic - Study Fire, Study Stone, Study Travel
Megaprojects - Current Megaproject
Rural Infrastructure - Settlements, New Trails, Manage Forests
Spirits - Temples, Ordeals, Festivals
Urban Infrastructure - Temples, Walls, Festivals, Trade
War - Raids, Train Warriors, Folk Wrestling
World - New Trails, Exploring, Trade, Hunting
Megaprojects:
Artificial River [Terrestial Fetich] [Admin] (6 Actions) - Prerequisites not met.
The Dam [Terrestrial Fetich] [Admin] (6 Actions) - Inspired by the feats of ingenuity demonstrated by a large, but common, rat, the People have decided to emulate their creations on a more massive scale. By blockaded a river, it would be possible to accumulate an enormous amount of water, something that could easily be put to use.
The Hunt [Wonderful World] [Trial By Fire] [Flat Arrow Outlook] [Martial] [Admin] (2/5 Actions) - The call of the hunt is a grand and beastly instinct. Long have the People felt the thrill of the chase. It is a solitary thing, one known only by hunter and the hunted. It is also an instinct out of place in this changing world.
The World, A Shield [Terrestrial Fetich] [Flat Arrow Outlook] [Martial] [Admin] (12 Actions) - Prerequisites not met.
The World in Miniature [Wonderful World] [Diplomacy] [Admin] (7 actions) - The world is a grand place, seemingly endless in scope. The People's exploration and search for wonders has pushed them to find a way to more effectively communicate discoveries with each other. Trail markers are a start, but they are not easily portable. More can be done.
A Temple, Grand [Terrestrial Fetich] [Art] (8 Actions) - Prerequisites not met.
Extended Projects:
Extend Fire Relay (Hill Guard) [Terrestrial Fetich] [Wondrous World] [Admin] (1 Action) - The Fire Relay has served as the backbone of the People's communication and movement between The Fingers and Crystal Lake for longer than memory. With the recent founding of Hill Guard, the vaunted relay no longer stitches the People from one end to the other. This oversight must be corrected.
Raise Temple (Crystal Lake, The Fingers, Hill Guard) [Terrestrial Fetich] [Wondrous World] [Admin] [Art] (2 Actions) - A ritual place where the spirits and those they touch can work. Special facilities for magic, resources, teachings and the spirits themselves are included.
The Hill (Crystal Lake, The Fingers) [Terrestrial Fetich] [Admin] (2 Actions) - A hill made by man. A simple construct, but one that greatly raises the defensive value of a settlement.
New Trails [Wondrous World] [Admin] (9 or 12 Actions) - Inspired by the Fire Relay, these small trails are cut into the innumerable forests that surround the People. Serving as akin to veins in the body, they promote the free movement of goods and people.
Expand Hunting (Dogs, Orkers, Traps, Herd Animals, Prize Animals) [Martial] - Improve upon the hunting techniques of the People. Work to increase the amount of meat that is available to consume and empower the People. A risky activity and one that requires a great investment of skill and energy, this provides the largest gains of food.
Expand Agriculture (Quinoa, Gourds, Corn) [Admin] - The People have come to realize the bounty of the world is often not enough. They need to tame it and carefully manage the foods that are so important in sating their appetites.
Expand Aquaculture (Wild Rice, Mussels, Fishing) [Admin] - Most of the People live close to a river and are able to gather one of numerous sources of food. Often much easier to obtain than food from hunting and much less risky, these sources of food are much more vulnerable to shifts of the seasons and that of the weather.
Explore (Specify?) [Wonderful World] [Martial] [Diplomacy] - There is much to be found in the world. Countless things, often placed by the hand of the spirits themselves. It is up to the People to find them.
Found Settlement (includes: Brick Wall, Shrine, Sugar Shack) [Terrestrial Fetich] [Admin] - While the People build homes where they will, often where food or resources can easily be found, these places are settled without organization or care. By founding a formal settlement, it becomes possible for central authority to exert itself before the People become too fracas. (Requires: 2 tiers of Econ and excess population. Available locations: North Bay, River Fork, River Bend, Wide River. 1 settlement possible to found.)
Manage Forests (Sugar, Timber, Medicine, Gathering) [Wondrous World] [Admin] - While the forests provide the least of the People's food, they have provided that which is most useful. Sugar is wonderous in taste and highly sought after as a trade goods. Evergreen tea soothes aching bodies and quiets headaches. There is much to be found in the unknown, perhaps rare, but of significant value.
Promote Folk Wrestling [Flat Arrow Outlook] [Martial] - The People are fracas and have a tendency towards physical confrontations and violence. By carefully channeling this tendency, it's possible to develop further skill at war and turn hunters into skilled and deadly raiders.
Raid (Target?) [Flat Arrow Outlook] [Retributive Justice] [Martial] - The hunting of beasts turns now into the hunting of men. Strike down those who oppose the People so that we may be kept safe.
Study Travel [Wonderful Word] [Art] - Invest time in learning how most effectively to travel. The world is harsh and strange, learning how to traverse it will save the People much in effort and food.
Study Fire [Art] - The greatest and most capricious of spirits, fire is of immense use to the People. The recent discovery of lime and the founding of the Ember-Eyed has spurred substantial interest in developing understanding of this forceful spirit further.
Study Stone [Terrestrial Fetich] [Art] - A solid and stable spirit, the People have found numerous type of stone with different properties. How these properties can be best served to support the People is unknown. Learning to work the material will likely pay enormous dividends in the future.
Trade (Arrow Lake, Peace Builders, Pearl Divers, Island Makers, Northlands) [Wondrous World] [Diplomacy] [Martial] - It is clear that the People do not hold all that is significant within the world. There are other tribes that hold interesting, useful or beautiful objects. By offering up some as gifts, things that the People do not have will be provided in return.
Train Warriors (Warriors, Holy Order) [Flat Arrow Outlook] [Martial] [Admin] - The People have warriors well trained in the art of killing. By diverting more young people into these professions, preparations for war can be established. In a way, it is like knapping obsidian into a knife. An action that takes deliberation and planning, forethought, to be useful.
Prepare for Ordeal [Trial By Fire] [Admin] - The spirits test the People, always. These tests are ones that require careful preparation and forethought. The People will be prepared. A crisis well managed is a sign of spiritual favour, one that's botched causes the People to further suffer.
Tribute Foci
Defense - Walls, Defensive Structures, Trails, Folk Wrestling
Food - Agriculture, Aquaculture, Herding, Hunting
Magic - Study Fire, Study Stone, Study Travel
Megaprojects - Current Megaproject
Rural Infrastructure - Settlements, New Trails, Manage Forests
Spirits - Temples, Ordeals, Festivals
Urban Infrastructure - Temples, Walls, Festivals, Trade
War - Raids, Train Warriors, Folk Wrestling
World - New Trails, Exploring, Trade, Hunting
Megaprojects:
The Dam [Terrestrial Fetich] [Admin] (6 Actions) - Inspired by the feats of ingenuity demonstrated by a large, but common, rat, the People have decided to emulate their creations on a more massive scale. By blockaded a river, it would be possible to accumulate an enormous amount of water, something that could easily be put to use.
The Hunt [Wonderful World] [Trial By Fire] [Flat Arrow Outlook] [Martial] [Admin] (2/5 Actions) - The call of the hunt is a grand and beastly instinct. Long have the People felt the thrill of the chase. It is a solitary thing, one known only by hunter and the hunted. It is also an instinct out of place in this changing world.
The World in Miniature [Wonderful World] [Diplomacy] [Admin] (7 actions) - The world is a grand place, seemingly endless in scope. The People's exploration and search for wonders has pushed them to find a way to more effectively communicate discoveries with each other. Trail markers are a start, but they are not easily portable. More can be done.
Extended Projects:
Extend Fire Relay (Hill Guard) [Terrestrial Fetich] [Wondrous World] [Admin] (1 Action) - The Fire Relay has served as the backbone of the People's communication and movement between The Fingers and Crystal Lake for longer than memory. With the recent founding of Hill Guard, the vaunted relay no longer stitches the People from one end to the other. This oversight must be corrected.
Raise Temple (Crystal Lake, The Fingers, Hill Guard) [Terrestrial Fetich] [Wondrous World] [Admin] [Art] (2 Actions) - A ritual place where the spirits and those they touch can work. Special facilities for magic, resources, teachings and the spirits themselves are included.
The Hill (Crystal Lake, The Fingers) [Terrestrial Fetich] [Admin] (2 Actions) - A hill made by man. A simple construct, but one that greatly raises the defensive value of a settlement.
New Trails [Wondrous World] [Admin] (9 or 12 Actions) - Inspired by the Fire Relay, these small trails are cut into the innumerable forests that surround the People. Serving as akin to veins in the body, they promote the free movement of goods and people.
Actions that could be locked in this turn: Expand Hunting
Automatic Actions: Trade (Arrow Lake,
Note: You are At War with the Northlands. The Peace Builders have offered a full, unconditional Alliance. Arrow Lake has offered a limited defense pact. The Pearl Divers are watching their borders.
AN: A Moratorium is in effect! All votes before the next threadmark will not be counted. I will answer questions tomorrow, but if people could pare them down to fewer essential ones, it would make turn around faster. Tag me for any new questions.
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Ghostdevil
The Devil of Ghosts
- Location
- United States
Wow, i bet we got all the crit fails with the Northland visit...
Damn, we got a nasty fear of cavalry even if the dogs are super effective on them.
Should the People pull their workers back from the Pearl Divers, freeing up young men, skilled labour, and Ember-Eye overseers?
[ ] [Recall] Yes
[ ] [Recall] No
I'd say no, considering they're better used where they are.
This is a very good value with our Natural Wonders I think.
And our fortifications becomes mmmm.
Value Synergy Detected: Wondrous World + Terrestrial Fetich. Combine Values?
[ ] [Value] Yes
[ ] [Value] No
@Redium
Do we have any idea what such a resultant combination would look like?
Does it favor one side or the other?
Action wise...we're at war so we want that Hill up soon(best counter to cavalry raids), we need to finish The Hunt soon to avoid starving...and
Damned nice thing.
Personal preference:
[ ] [Recall] No
[ ] [Value] Yes
[ ][Action] Raid(Northlands)
[ ][Action] Expand Hunting(Dogs)
[ ][Admin] The Hunt
[ ][Art] Study Travel
[ ][Tribute] Megaprojects
Reasoning:
-Raid is basically mandatory or Flat Arrow Outlook will kick our ass
-Lock in Hunting, picking Dogs since they're effective against cavalry
-Use Tribute and an action to finish The Hunt
-Study Travel might let us figure out how their cavalry works during a raid. Synergy maybe?
Not a lot of flexibility due to being at war. Really want a Hill though.
- Location
- Anchorage, Alaska
then we must answer in kind and destroy the man-beasts!!! they are a foul demon blights! the cave revealed their true nature and they wish to destroy us in turn!
this seems right:
[ ] [Recall] No
[ ] [Value] Yes
[ ][Action] Raid(Northlands)
[ ][Action] Expand Hunting(Dogs)
[ ][Admin] The Hunt
[ ][Art] Study Travel
[ ][Tribute] Megaprojects
edited: also we might need to get the new trails and the temple soon, as well as finish some hills for fortification. we really don't need to lose shit soon enough...
this seems right:
[ ] [Recall] No
[ ] [Value] Yes
[ ][Action] Raid(Northlands)
[ ][Action] Expand Hunting(Dogs)
[ ][Admin] The Hunt
[ ][Art] Study Travel
[ ][Tribute] Megaprojects
edited: also we might need to get the new trails and the temple soon, as well as finish some hills for fortification. we really don't need to lose shit soon enough...
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- Location
- USA
Like clockwork, the bane of settled civilizations comes knocking once again. Nomads with cavalry because that is the only description that could describe their warriors here. Oh well, better caribous than mastodons I suppose.
With this description, it is most definitely caribou cavalry that they are using, with the antlers of them used by their warriors. It's obviously the back and head that fell off was the mounted warrior while the body was the animal they were riding on. They are going to be trouble to face seeing as they seem to perform well in fighting as cavalry in forest, which is something that horseborn cavalry don't do well at.
How badly did we roll here @Redium
Would we have been better off not bothering?
Well, guess our route for expansion has been chosen for us this time. Just because we lost a little now doesn't mean we cannot strike back.
Well this sucks. I'm guessing the morale penalty is for facing their the Northland Cavalry, until we learn how to defeat cavalry on our own.
How exactly do we remove this? I'm assuming if we kick the crap out of them and win, that this will go away as we would be humbling them? @Redium
Yeah, the Fingers has brick walls, good luck with them getting through those, cavalry or no. But, it's nice to see where our friends truly lie right now. Though it's understandable considering how fresh they are at war.
The Pearl Divers are not wrong here. I doubt they would be of any use other than as a distraction in this war considering how they are a confederation relying on militia to defend themselves. It wouldn't really serve us well to blame them here when they don't have anything militarily that they could offer us.
In my opinion we would be taking a diplomatic hit if we recalled our workers back. Right now the war is not so dire that we need to do so. While our outlying areas were ravaged the help of the Peace Builders is allowing us to do well here. By recalling our workers we will be setting ourselves back. While more manpower would help, the use of the Peace Builder's warriors as sufficient manpower should be enough. As for the Ember Eyes, considering the type of enemy we are facing, I don't think we need them in this war as they are nomads, we don't need them to raid any settlements.
That was surprising. I guess they really are our friends. We can probably turn our attention eastwards after this seeing how the Peace Builders seem predisposed to liking us. I'd rather not turn that fanatacism on ourselves right now if I can help it. They are formidable right now seeing as they can field as many warriors as we can while still leaving a potent garrison force. I wonder if we can annex them or fuse with them in the future considering they already see us as cousins?
Just a note, but on the front page this is maxed development. Anyways, this a pretty neat value. Considering our propensity for building stuff and owning two natural wonders already, this will help greatly when it comes to the future.
What will this entail? Will Wondrous World be replaced by this combined value, or will Terrestrial Fetich? Right now Terrestrial Fetich is at maxed development, will choosing this option make it so that it becomes overmax?
This is something we need to know before we make an informed choice. @Redium
Nope, we're at war.
We definitely need to take one of these considering that expand hunting is almost locked, though we should work on that megaproject to make sure we don't over hunt or something. Considering that in meta we know that the Northlands are using caribou, herd animals, as cavalry mounts, would hunting those help us here if we choose to raid them in synergy?
We should expand agriculture so we can at least lock down one of these, quinoa, as we already did one action for it last term, just so that we don't get left behind here.
Two of these actions are already locked in wild rice and fishing. I would like to get mussels locked down later but now is not the time.
Nope, not the right time.
Not sure if we can afford to do this right now. We could try to lock in the North Bay location seeing as we have the river plains basically uncontested for now. However I don't think straining our food while at war would be a good idea.
Nope, can't afford to do this now, as much as I would like to lock any of these down.
This is okay, but train warriors would be better.
We need to take this to end the Northlands. They shall see what happens to people who attack us, ignoring South Lake as we technically attacked them.
Not sure if this will help with the issue of traversing the trails of the Northlands? Does taking this help improve methods of travel through technology or does it give techniques too? @Redium
Don't think this will be useful right now. Later.
Would be nice, but not necessary for now.
Maybe we should trade with the Peace Builders? They are our only allies of worth right now.
We should probably train more warriors if we want to win this war, considering our disadvantage when facing the Northlands.
Already locked in, don't need.
Ooooooh shiny. I don't think we really need this now. We don't have enough agriculture for it to be put to good use. Maybe after this war, and after we lock down some agriculture.
We need to finish this soon.
Later.
This is a tempting option seeing as it only takes one point. If we take this option, will it lock down building fire relays between settlements? As this seems similar to a hill in some respects. So if we take this and don't build a settlement in three turns will this become locked in? @Redium
Not yet, but it's nice to know it only costs 2 actions.
We should probably get these done sooner or later. If we take one now, maybe we can finish it the next turn and get all of this done in three turns.
9 or 12? The heck? Will taking this action in small increments provide bonuses?
Does it matter which hunting action we specify?
So if we win the war and make peace with the Northlands, assuming we don't assimilate them, will trade with them still be locked or not?
Do we have to do anything on our part to accept any of these offers? @Redium
Also, what are the benefits from being settled again as we haven't yet seen what it does since it replaced semi-nomadic?
Edit: More reasoning:
My plan for this is slightly different for yours, but similar enough.
[ ] [Recall] No
[ ] [Value] Yes
[ ][Action] Expand Agriculture (Quinoa)
[ ][Action] Expand Hunting (Dogs)
[ ][Admin] The Hunt
[ ][Art] Study Travel
[ ][Tribute] War
Here is my reasoning.
I agree with you when it comes to the necessity of not recalling our builders at the Pearl Divers. With the Peace Builders on our side we don't truly need that much manpower to win the war now. All we simply need are methods to root the Northlands out. The Ember Eyes would not serve us too well here as what we are facing are not another people with large settlements take but instead noamds.
When it comes to Values, so long as the combined value is not an overmax value I think we should go for it, for there is little chance of us upgrading Wonderful World anytime soon.
One of the areas where I disagree with you was in choosing to expand agriculture. We can see now that we are somewhat suffering in terms of the number of warriors we can field. It's been noted that the tribes of the south and those with agriculture are fielding far greater numbers of warriors than we are, including the Peace Builders. We have one use of quinoa down so far, all we need to do is get another one now so that we can lock it down next turn. As for the raid action, I have instead chosen to use our tribute option, war, to have us use that go raid the Northlands as they are the only real option for fighting this turn.
I agree with you in that we need to lock down hunting, something which should pay dividends when we finally finish the Hunt Megaproject. Considering how well our dogs scared off their cavalry, likely due to their caribou still possessing an instinctive fear against predator animals, I'm guessing we might get synergy from hunting with our dogs, something that will empower us when we fight the Northlands again.
Obviously we need to take the hunt again, as we really need to finish it before it bites us in the ass.
When it comes to our art options, we are rather limited in what we can choose. Studying Stone or Fire will not help us when it comes to fighting the Northland. We already have potent fortifications, and unless studying fire yields us copper weapons, that won't help much either. Studying travel on the other hand will. One of our main issues with taking the fight to the Northlands is their trails and homeland advantage. If we can eliminate that, we can decisively end this war on our terms.
Finally, the reason why I didn't choose to use the tribute for the megaproject is that no matter what, unless we take three The Hunt actions, we won't finish the megaproject this turn as it has 3 more actions to go. I would rather we work on locking down quinoa next turn than waiting for the counter to start again. While choosing war as a tribute action may not yield a raid, even if it just has us train warriors it will help all the same.
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Theres a few ways for dispelling the superstition:
-Clear decisive victory over the Northlands, under our own power
-Figure out how cavalry works, and develop our own cavalry to no longer fear them.
Reminder of the Peace Builders' values.
One of them compels hatred of anyone answering diplomacy/trade with violence.
One of them considers our attempts to mend the offense we have caused with lavish gifts to be commendable.
One of them says that you should do right by your friends.
Combined, adding Sacred War to the mix, they achieve fanatical hatred of anyone who met gifts and kind words with violence. It is as close to maximum heresy as they can imagine.
Hmm...seems likely.
Those are roads connecting our settlements, big and small(the small farmsteads and villages below map resolution). We don't know how many we need exactly, because "9 or 12" translated is "we know this will take more than three generations working on it nonstop to finish".
This is very important and the number needed will increase with every settlement.
The reason I chose Megaproject Tribute is that Hero Action The Hunt, + 2 actions from Tribute, we can finish The Hunt this turn, which would stabilize our hunting immediately.
This is important because our near range prey animals are near wipeout from overhunting already. One turn might be one too many
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I say we start on a temple with our art action, to help with keeping the skills. Besides, Aeva probably won't live 3 more turns, so unless we get another art hero we aren't locking in study travel, so that factor is out of consideration. Finally, I find the idea of trying to figure out cavalry from them to be very literally putting the cart before the horse.
Also, they appear to be only 2 actions, so that's a relief.
Also, they appear to be only 2 actions, so that's a relief.
But last time we did megaproject tribute it didn't assign both actions to the hunt.
- Location
- USA
I'm not entirely sure we will be able to defeat the first this turn, unless we roll really well or get a hero or something. Perhaps our warriors will have learned from the Peace Builders how they smashed the Northland cavalry and adapted to that, unless that was just through pure fanatacism.
The second option only seems likely if we defeat them utterly and learn the secret to that. Unless we choose a herding action, I doubt we will get cavalry of our own anytime soon.
I guess that makes sense. What exactly should our policy be towards them in the future though? They seem to be our allies, as much as we dislike them potentially getting hegemony down south.
I mean, if so, we should probably lock it down sooner or later, it's just right now we have more pressing concerns and other things we need to get locked down. Our agriculture situation is going to be a problem eventually.
We should likely get on that eventually, as it seems we are building tall rather than wide now. We can't afford to go wide.
Last turn we picked both the The Hunt and a Tribute action dedicated and only got 2/5 completion towards it, so I don't think picking tribute here will allow us to complete it this turn.
We needed more food to take the Hunt action, so it took a food action to pay for the megaproject
Accept being sphered if that happens. These things just happen. They don't matter in the grand scale.
We just wait for them to pop and mop up the pieces
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Where was that said? I thought it was just inherent uncontrollably from the tribute actions.
Also, to @Redium , my only really essential questions are 1)does megaproject tribute also work on temples and hills? 2)does the price of organization projects rise with more settlements? and 3)where did the 2 extra actions in 16.1 come from?
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- Location
- USA
Even so, there's no guarantee that even with two actions gained from the tribute choice that two actions will be put towards the Megaproject. After all we did have the same economic status as last time with a small surplus then. I kind of would rather put it off in order to get more progress on locking down quinoa, as we will have two charges on it rather than starting over again.
Edit: Also I think using our tribute action on the war would be more efficient as we would likely gain a combination of raiding the Northlands and some kind of training action out of it too, making that option more effective
I mean, they aren't hostile to us, and we don't really conflict too often so I wouldn't mind either way. They do their thing, we do ours.
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