- Location
- USA
Both of the current posted plans have Build Temple as an action, which qualifies as a Supernal Symphony choice.
From Stone to the Stars
- Thread starter Redium
- Start date
- Original Alt. History
Both of the current posted plans have Build Temple as an action, which qualifies as a Supernal Symphony choice.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Anyway, an alternate plan, with a more martial bend (merging the northlands hunters into the training program, train warriors). My reasoning is as follows:
-we have a martial hero right now, and no mystic hero.
-we have existing training innovations that would be great to lock in
-we have a war coming up, and after what just happened i'm in no mood to take half-measures here
-as an extension of the last point, TBF means that if we are seen as "passing" the ordeal of the war, we gain stability.
[ ] Plan The Family that Fights Together
-[ ] [Salt] Yes
-[ ] [Teach] Have teachers take apprentices by finding promising children, like the Holy Orders do.
-[ ] [North] Work the Northlands' hunters into the People's training program.
-[ ] [Action] Expand Agriculture (Quinoa)
-[ ] [Action] Train Warriors
-[ ] [Admin] Manage Forests (Sugar)
-[ ] [Martial] Raid (Enemies of Peace Builders)
-[ ] [Art] Raise Temple (Crystal Lake)
-[ ] [Tribute Focus] Spirit
Thoughts?
-we have a martial hero right now, and no mystic hero.
-we have existing training innovations that would be great to lock in
-we have a war coming up, and after what just happened i'm in no mood to take half-measures here
-as an extension of the last point, TBF means that if we are seen as "passing" the ordeal of the war, we gain stability.
[ ] Plan The Family that Fights Together
-[ ] [Salt] Yes
-[ ] [Teach] Have teachers take apprentices by finding promising children, like the Holy Orders do.
-[ ] [North] Work the Northlands' hunters into the People's training program.
-[ ] [Action] Expand Agriculture (Quinoa)
-[ ] [Action] Train Warriors
-[ ] [Admin] Manage Forests (Sugar)
-[ ] [Martial] Raid (Enemies of Peace Builders)
-[ ] [Art] Raise Temple (Crystal Lake)
-[ ] [Tribute Focus] Spirit
Thoughts?
I wondered if it was a bit too on the nose. It was the actual effect on going over your specialization cap, though and was planned ahead of time.
Yes.
Pritt: "Their warriors are no professionals! They whoop and they holler when they should be silent, stalking underneath the trees to catch out the enemy! In time, such could learn how to be true warriors, but right now they are amateurs intoxicated upon success."
Aeva: "It is not an issue of having no goods to trade; the People have far more to offer than the Pearl Divers could ever use or barter for. My worry is that their salt will replace our sugar as the primary means of preserving food. To produce salt, once a saltern is prepared, costs nothing but time. For sugar, buckets of sap must be carried and collected into great cauldrons. Beneath them, great fires are lit until the maple sap reduces into syrup, one tenth of its original volume and then again until it is one tenth of that. Unless more sugar is produced, it is too costly for most."
This wont quite push you to Early Kingdom on its own, but it will bring you close to that direction. It changes how your Economy functions.
Debt slavery they've always had. Slavery and slave raiding they only picked up this turn.
Black Sand Beach is a Natural Wonder, but only if you secure it before discovering Iron. The Singing Sands will be a Natural Wonder much, much longer than that.
It actually did. Priit's just focused more on the fact that there are still some problems unsolved. As long as you go to war to support the Peace Builders, his faction problems are likely to heal.
Since you have an Elite trait, it means being a master.
Yes.
No, they are; master farmers or fishermen are adults. It's just that crafts are easier. Being a rice farmer isn't too bad, but being a corn or qunioa farmer is backbreaking work, fishing and hunting are extremely dangerous. People are simply being lazy.
Basically enough people stopped working at once that your food economy nearly collapsed. Everyone went: "Oh, I have a friend who will spot me!" and started learning their trade. It wasn't until everyone was preserving food for winter that they realized they would come up short at the current rate. A lot of people were pushed to hunt or fish in order to make up the shortfall.
Nat 100.
Yes.
They have a value that's like a Sister of Supernal Symphony. If you can get them to adopt Supernal Symphony, you'll take them over. You can replace any other Value, but giving them SS would be the easiest.
Charcoal kilns are 1 turn/settlement.
They're aquatic so they have a lot of unexpected leeway with this. If they get enough shipbuilding tech that they can make it to the not!Grand Banks before exploding, they will be set until modernity.
Spoiler alert: you're still in a bad spot.
This would be 2.
Bingo!
Second most broken method of farming discovered, just barely behind Terra Preta production.
Vote is Open!
Read the Notes section before Voting!
Read the Notes section before Voting!
Allow the Ember-Eyes to stay with the Pearl Divers for another turn?
[ ] [Salt] Yes
[ ] [Salt] No
How should the People reform their teaching practices?
[ ] [Teach] Empower the Big Men. Given them the ability to formally direct the labour and resources of others.
[ ] [Teach] Develop a group whose responsibility it is to ensure enough specialists are trained without wasting food.
[ ] [Teach] Delegate authority to longhouse leaders, make them responsible for organizing and training labourers.
[ ] [Teach] Have teachers take apprentices by finding promising children, like the Holy Orders do.
[ ] [Teach] Discourage taking Debt for education so that another food bust will not sneak up on the People.
[ ] [Teach] Limit the amount of skill needed to be an adult, numerous dilettante can serve just as well as a specialist.
[ ] [Teach] Do nothing yet.
How should the People integrate those they have taken under their wing?
[ ] [North] Work the Northlands' hunters into the People's training program.
[ ] [North] Encourage the People to marry into the Northlands' who are desperately in need of more husbands.
[ ] [North] Increase trade, far past the point that it was historically to keep ties fresh.
[ ] [North] Put the People's shaman in with the Northlands as advisers or leaders to their new High Shaman.
[ ] [North] Try and take the Northlands into the People fully, adopting them through new Blood Ties.
[ ] [North] Keep the relationship simple, just continue subsidies for them.
Annual Festival [Art] - The People deserve to party! Build morale by opening up the stockpiles and having a night of feasts, dancing, music and fun.
Expand Agriculture (Quinoa, Gourds, Corn) [Admin] - The People have come to realize the bounty of the world is often not enough. They need to tame it and carefully manage the foods that are so important in sating their appetites.
Expand Aquaculture (Wild Rice, Mussels, Fishing) [Admin] - Most of the People live close to a river and are able to gather one of numerous sources of food. Often much easier to obtain than food from hunting and much less risky, these sources of food are much more vulnerable to shifts of the seasons and that of the weather.
Explore (Specify?) [Martial] [Diplomacy] - There is much to be found in the world. Countless things, often placed by the hand of the spirits themselves. It is up to the People to find them.
Found Settlement (includes: Brick Wall, Shrine, Sugar Shack) [Supernal Symphony] [Admin] - While the People build homes where they will, often where food or resources can easily be found, these places are settled without organization or care. By founding a formal settlement, it becomes possible for central authority to exert itself before the People become too fracas. (Requires: 2 tiers of Econ and excess population. Available locations: North Bay, River Fork, River Bend, Wide River. 1 settlement possible to found.)
Manage Hunting (Dogs, Orkers, Traps, Herd Animals, Prize Animals) [Martial] - An ancient art to gather food, it is one that the People have recently updated and become most adept. There us more to hunting than stalking and killing beasts. Animals are not single beings, they are but part of a greater whole and collective. By carefully selecting and managing those individuals, the collective many be manipulated to reap previously incalculable benefit.
Manage Forests (Sugar, Timber, Medicine, Gathering) [Admin] - While the forests provide the least of the People's food, they have provided that which is most useful. Sugar is wonderous in taste and highly sought after as a trade goods. Evergreen tea soothes aching bodies and quiets headaches. There is much to be found in the unknown, perhaps rare, but of significant value.
Promote Folk Wrestling [Flat Arrow Outlook] [Martial] - The People are fracas and have a tendency towards physical confrontations and violence. By carefully channeling this tendency, it's possible to develop further skill at war and turn hunters into skilled and deadly raiders.
Raid (Mountain Clans, Arrow Lake, Pearl Divers, Island Makers, Peace Builders, Enemies of the Peace Builders) [Flat Arrow Outlook] [Retributive Justice] [Martial] - The hunting of beasts turns now into the hunting of men. Strike down those who oppose the People so that we may be kept safe.
Study Travel [Art] - Invest time in learning how most effectively to travel. The world is harsh and strange, learning how to traverse it will save the People much in effort and food.
Study Fire [Art] - The greatest and most capricious of spirits, fire is of immense use to the People. The recent discovery of lime and the founding of the Ember-Eyed has spurred substantial interest in developing understanding of this forceful spirit further.
Study Stone [Art] - A solid and stable spirit, the People have found numerous type of stone with different properties. How these properties can be best served to support the People is unknown. Learning to work the material will likely pay enormous dividends in the future.
Trade (Arrow Lake, Peace Builders, Pearl Divers, Island Makers, Northlands) [Diplomacy] [Martial] - It is clear that the People do not hold all that is significant within the world. There are other tribes that hold interesting, useful or beautiful objects. By offering up some as gifts, things that the People do not have will be provided in return.
Train Warriors (Warriors, Holy Order) [Flat Arrow Outlook] [Martial] [Admin] - The People have warriors well trained in the art of killing. By diverting more young people into these professions, preparations for war can be established. In a way, it is like knapping obsidian into a knife. An action that takes deliberation and planning, forethought, to be useful.
Prepare for Ordeal [Trial By Fire] [Admin] - The spirits test the People, always. These tests are ones that require careful preparation and forethought. The People will be prepared. A crisis well managed is a sign of spiritual favour, one that's botched causes the People to further suffer.
Tribute Foci
Defense - Walls, Defensive Structures, Trails, Folk Wrestling
Food - Agriculture, Aquaculture, Herding, Hunting
Magic - Study Fire, Study Stone, Study Travel
Megaprojects - Current Megaproject
Rural Infrastructure - Settlements, New Trails, Manage Forests
Spirits - Temples, Ordeals, Festivals
Urban Infrastructure - Temples, Walls, Festivals, Trade
War - Raids, Train Warriors, Folk Wrestling
World - New Trails, Exploring, Trade, Hunting
Megaprojects:
Artificial River [Supernal Symphony] [Admin] (6 Actions) - Prerequisites not met.
The Dam [Supernal Symphony] [Admin] (6 Actions) - Inspired by the feats of ingenuity demonstrated by a large, but common, rat, the People have decided to emulate their creations on a more massive scale. By blockaded a river, it would be possible to accumulate an enormous amount of water, something that could easily be put to use.
The World, A Shield [Supernal Symphony] [Flat Arrow Outlook] [Martial] [Admin] (12 Actions) - Prerequisites not met.
The World in Miniature [Supernal Symphony] [Diplomacy] [Admin] (7 actions) - The world is a grand place, seemingly endless in scope. The People's exploration and search for wonders has pushed them to find a way to more effectively communicate discoveries with each other. Trail markers are a start, but they are not easily portable. More can be done.
A Temple, Grand [Supernal Symphony] [Art] (8 Actions) - Prerequisites not met.
The Sisters Three [Supernal Symphony] [Admin] (6 Actions) - Prerequisites not met.
A Field of Gold [Supernal Symphony] [Admin] (6 Actions) - Prerequisites not met.
Extended Projects:
Archaic Charcoal Kilns (Crystal Lake, Hill Guard, The Fingers) [Supernal Symphony] [Admin] [Art] (1 Action) - The Ember-Eyes have discovered a secret of wood and fire. By carefully burning it, they can render it blackened and fragile. Somehow, this makes fire burn far hotter. How is it the elements dance when burning wood is not the same as wood cooked by fire?
Extend Fire Relay (Hill Guard) [Supernal Symphony] [Admin] (1 Action) - The Fire Relay has served as the backbone of the People's communication and movement between The Fingers and Crystal Lake for longer than memory. With the recent founding of Hill Guard, the vaunted relay no longer stitches the People from one end to the other. This oversight must be corrected.
Raise Temple (Crystal Lake, The Fingers) [Supernal Symphony] [Admin] [Art] (2 Actions) - A ritual place where the spirits and those they touch can work. Special facilities for magic, resources, teachings and the spirits themselves are included.
The Hill (Crystal Lake, The Fingers) [Supernal Symphony] [Admin] (2 Actions) - A hill made by man. A simple construct, but one that greatly raises the defensive value of a settlement.
New Trails [Wondrous World] [Admin] (9 or 12 Actions) - Inspired by the Fire Relay, these small trails are cut into the innumerable forests that surround the People. Serving as akin to veins in the body, they promote the free movement of goods and people.
Expand Agriculture (Quinoa, Gourds, Corn) [Admin] - The People have come to realize the bounty of the world is often not enough. They need to tame it and carefully manage the foods that are so important in sating their appetites.
Expand Aquaculture (Wild Rice, Mussels, Fishing) [Admin] - Most of the People live close to a river and are able to gather one of numerous sources of food. Often much easier to obtain than food from hunting and much less risky, these sources of food are much more vulnerable to shifts of the seasons and that of the weather.
Explore (Specify?) [Martial] [Diplomacy] - There is much to be found in the world. Countless things, often placed by the hand of the spirits themselves. It is up to the People to find them.
Found Settlement (includes: Brick Wall, Shrine, Sugar Shack) [Supernal Symphony] [Admin] - While the People build homes where they will, often where food or resources can easily be found, these places are settled without organization or care. By founding a formal settlement, it becomes possible for central authority to exert itself before the People become too fracas. (Requires: 2 tiers of Econ and excess population. Available locations: North Bay, River Fork, River Bend, Wide River. 1 settlement possible to found.)
Manage Hunting (Dogs, Orkers, Traps, Herd Animals, Prize Animals) [Martial] - An ancient art to gather food, it is one that the People have recently updated and become most adept. There us more to hunting than stalking and killing beasts. Animals are not single beings, they are but part of a greater whole and collective. By carefully selecting and managing those individuals, the collective many be manipulated to reap previously incalculable benefit.
Manage Forests (Sugar, Timber, Medicine, Gathering) [Admin] - While the forests provide the least of the People's food, they have provided that which is most useful. Sugar is wonderous in taste and highly sought after as a trade goods. Evergreen tea soothes aching bodies and quiets headaches. There is much to be found in the unknown, perhaps rare, but of significant value.
Promote Folk Wrestling [Flat Arrow Outlook] [Martial] - The People are fracas and have a tendency towards physical confrontations and violence. By carefully channeling this tendency, it's possible to develop further skill at war and turn hunters into skilled and deadly raiders.
Raid (Mountain Clans, Arrow Lake, Pearl Divers, Island Makers, Peace Builders, Enemies of the Peace Builders) [Flat Arrow Outlook] [Retributive Justice] [Martial] - The hunting of beasts turns now into the hunting of men. Strike down those who oppose the People so that we may be kept safe.
Study Travel [Art] - Invest time in learning how most effectively to travel. The world is harsh and strange, learning how to traverse it will save the People much in effort and food.
Study Fire [Art] - The greatest and most capricious of spirits, fire is of immense use to the People. The recent discovery of lime and the founding of the Ember-Eyed has spurred substantial interest in developing understanding of this forceful spirit further.
Study Stone [Art] - A solid and stable spirit, the People have found numerous type of stone with different properties. How these properties can be best served to support the People is unknown. Learning to work the material will likely pay enormous dividends in the future.
Trade (Arrow Lake, Peace Builders, Pearl Divers, Island Makers, Northlands) [Diplomacy] [Martial] - It is clear that the People do not hold all that is significant within the world. There are other tribes that hold interesting, useful or beautiful objects. By offering up some as gifts, things that the People do not have will be provided in return.
Train Warriors (Warriors, Holy Order) [Flat Arrow Outlook] [Martial] [Admin] - The People have warriors well trained in the art of killing. By diverting more young people into these professions, preparations for war can be established. In a way, it is like knapping obsidian into a knife. An action that takes deliberation and planning, forethought, to be useful.
Prepare for Ordeal [Trial By Fire] [Admin] - The spirits test the People, always. These tests are ones that require careful preparation and forethought. The People will be prepared. A crisis well managed is a sign of spiritual favour, one that's botched causes the People to further suffer.
Tribute Foci
Defense - Walls, Defensive Structures, Trails, Folk Wrestling
Food - Agriculture, Aquaculture, Herding, Hunting
Magic - Study Fire, Study Stone, Study Travel
Megaprojects - Current Megaproject
Rural Infrastructure - Settlements, New Trails, Manage Forests
Spirits - Temples, Ordeals, Festivals
Urban Infrastructure - Temples, Walls, Festivals, Trade
War - Raids, Train Warriors, Folk Wrestling
World - New Trails, Exploring, Trade, Hunting
Megaprojects:
The Dam [Supernal Symphony] [Admin] (6 Actions) - Inspired by the feats of ingenuity demonstrated by a large, but common, rat, the People have decided to emulate their creations on a more massive scale. By blockaded a river, it would be possible to accumulate an enormous amount of water, something that could easily be put to use.
The World in Miniature [Supernal Symphony] [Diplomacy] [Admin] (7 actions) - The world is a grand place, seemingly endless in scope. The People's exploration and search for wonders has pushed them to find a way to more effectively communicate discoveries with each other. Trail markers are a start, but they are not easily portable. More can be done.
Extended Projects:
Archaic Charcoal Kilns (Crystal Lake, Hill Guard, The Fingers) [Supernal Symphony] [Admin] [Art] (1 Action) - The Ember-Eyes have discovered a secret of wood and fire. By carefully burning it, they can render it blackened and fragile. Somehow, this makes fire burn far hotter. How is it the elements dance when burning wood is not the same as wood cooked by fire?
Extend Fire Relay (Hill Guard) [Supernal Symphony] [Admin] (1 Action) - The Fire Relay has served as the backbone of the People's communication and movement between The Fingers and Crystal Lake for longer than memory. With the recent founding of Hill Guard, the vaunted relay no longer stitches the People from one end to the other. This oversight must be corrected.
Raise Temple (Crystal Lake, The Fingers) [Supernal Symphony] [Admin] [Art] (2 Actions) - A ritual place where the spirits and those they touch can work. Special facilities for magic, resources, teachings and the spirits themselves are included.
The Hill (Crystal Lake, The Fingers) [Supernal Symphony] [Admin] (2 Actions) - A hill made by man. A simple construct, but one that greatly raises the defensive value of a settlement.
New Trails [Wondrous World] [Admin] (9 or 12 Actions) - Inspired by the Fire Relay, these small trails are cut into the innumerable forests that surround the People. Serving as akin to veins in the body, they promote the free movement of goods and people.
Actions that could be locked in this turn: Expand Agriculture (Quinoa)
Automatic Actions: Expand Aquaculture (Rice, Fishing), Manage Hunting (Dogs), Prepare for Ordeal, Trade (Arrow Lake, Island Makers, Pearl Divers, Northlands)
Actions that will deliver Special outcomes if taken this turn: Raid (Mountain Clans), Trade (Mountain Clans), Raid (Enemies of Peace Builders)
Note: Failing to Raid the (Enemies of Peace Builders) will result in Stability loss and aggravate Priit's Warriors! Failing to take a [Supernal Symphony] action will cost 1 Stability! Can Double Down at cost of 1 Stability on an action by adding a sub tag to that specific action. Indicate Double Down like so:
-[ ] [Art] Raise Temple (Crystal Lake)
--[ ] DD
Expand Hunting has been renamed Manage Hunting.
Leader Board
- The People! (Prestige: 28, Army: Greatly Reduced, Hardened Neolithic Warriors and Holy Orders, Economy: Early Agriculture Supplemented with Hunting, Art: Sacred Construction and Advanced High Quality Tools, Magic: Fire, Stone, and Spirit)
- Tribe of the West (Prestige: 22, Army: Numerous Professional Neolithic Warriors, Economy: Unprecedented Boom in Agriculture, Art: Innumerable Tools, Magic: All Things Alive)
- Arrow Lake (Prestige: 18, Army: Informal, Lucky Militia, Economy: Early Agriculture, Art: Sacred Iconography, Magic: Stone and Slaves)
- Island Makers (Prestige: 17, Army: Enraged Elite Neolithic Warriors, Economy: Intense Early Agriculture, Art: Advanced Quality Tools, Magic: Earth and Water)
- Bond Breakers (Prestige: 14, Army: Organizing Militia, Economy: Edge of Hunger, Art: Durable Weapons, Magic: Little)
- Pearl Divers (Prestige: 11, Army: Informal Militia, Economy: Early Fishing and Aquaculture, Art: Beautified Dependable Tools, Magic: Sea and Salt)
- Peace Builders (Prestige: 10, Army: Savaged Fanatical Neolithic Warriors, Economy: Broad Agriculture and Aquaculture, Art: Ephemeral Crafts and Imported Advanced High Quality Tools, Magic: Of Song and Story)
- South Lake (Prestige: 1, Army: Vengeful Bandits, Economy: Severe Starvation, Art: Cruel Weapons, Magic: Bloody and Black)
- Mountain Clans (Prestige: 1, Army: Scattered Refugees, Economy: Severe Starvation, Art: Little, Magic: Little)
- Northlands (Prestige: 0, Army: Slaughtered Cavalry, Economy: Collapsing, Art: Bone Tools, Magic: Bonds and Beasts)
- River Tribe (Prestige: ?, Army: ?, Economy: ?, Art: ?, Magic ?)
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Ghostdevil
The Devil of Ghosts
- Location
- United States
[X] [Salt] Yes
[X] [Teach] Empower the Big Men. Given them the ability to formally direct the labour and resources of others.
[X] [North] Put the People's shaman in with the Northlands as advisers or leaders to their new High Shaman.
Tentative vote, going to bed.
I'll change it to someone's plan later if they vote for what i want
[X] [Teach] Empower the Big Men. Given them the ability to formally direct the labour and resources of others.
[X] [North] Put the People's shaman in with the Northlands as advisers or leaders to their new High Shaman.
Tentative vote, going to bed.
I'll change it to someone's plan later if they vote for what i want
maximillian
Civilised Sheep
- Location
- Ranch
[X] [Salt] Yes
[X] [Teach] Delegate authority to longhouse leaders, make them responsible for organizing and training labourers.
[X] [Teach] Delegate authority to longhouse leaders, make them responsible for organizing and training labourers.
Shadows
Sacred Priestess of the Benevolent Dice Gods
- Location
- USS Civilian, DDG-214
- Pronouns
- She/Her
[X] Plan Sugar and Spices (with a side order of War)
-[X] [Salt] Yes
-[X] [Teach] Limit the amount of skill needed to be an adult, numerous dilettante can serve just as well as a specialist.
-[X] [North] Put the People's shaman in with the Northlands as advisers or leaders to their new High Shaman.
-[X] Expand Agriculture (Quinoa)
-[X] Train Warriors (Warriors)
-[X] [Martial] Raid (Enemies of Peace Builders)
-[X] [Admin] Manage Forests (Sugar)
-[X] [Art] Raise Temple (The Fingers)
-[X] [Tribute Focus] Spirit
I really wanted to jump on the Charcoal kilns, but if we're gonna fight we need an army bigger than what we've got. A food surplus will help with that, of course, but you gotta train them. And it just so happens we've got a boatload of anxious vets who'd probably be more than happy to pass on their hardened wisdom.
The choice to go in on Salt should be offset by managing for more Sugar Maple, but I'm only mostly partly sure.
The best way to fix the current specialty crisis is loosening the requirements a bit. It hurts elitism, but, really, at this point we can't really support all-out superspeccing.
-[X] [Salt] Yes
-[X] [Teach] Limit the amount of skill needed to be an adult, numerous dilettante can serve just as well as a specialist.
-[X] [North] Put the People's shaman in with the Northlands as advisers or leaders to their new High Shaman.
-[X] Expand Agriculture (Quinoa)
-[X] Train Warriors (Warriors)
-[X] [Martial] Raid (Enemies of Peace Builders)
-[X] [Admin] Manage Forests (Sugar)
-[X] [Art] Raise Temple (The Fingers)
-[X] [Tribute Focus] Spirit
I really wanted to jump on the Charcoal kilns, but if we're gonna fight we need an army bigger than what we've got. A food surplus will help with that, of course, but you gotta train them. And it just so happens we've got a boatload of anxious vets who'd probably be more than happy to pass on their hardened wisdom.
The choice to go in on Salt should be offset by managing for more Sugar Maple, but I'm only mostly partly sure.
The best way to fix the current specialty crisis is loosening the requirements a bit. It hurts elitism, but, really, at this point we can't really support all-out superspeccing.
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- Location
- United States
[X] [Salt] Yes
[X] [Teach] Limit the amount of skill needed to be an adult, numerous dilettante can serve just as well as a specialist.
[X] [North] Put the People's shaman in with the Northlands as advisers or leaders to their new High Shaman.
I think it's a good idea to limit the skill needed for adulthood. For one it makes the tribe more egalitarian and give people more equal say in politics. For another we really don't need that many pure specialists at this stage of our development. As far as the North goes, I'm not sure. I think advisers gives us more control but intermarriage could give more long-lasting ties.
[X] [Teach] Limit the amount of skill needed to be an adult, numerous dilettante can serve just as well as a specialist.
[X] [North] Put the People's shaman in with the Northlands as advisers or leaders to their new High Shaman.
I think it's a good idea to limit the skill needed for adulthood. For one it makes the tribe more egalitarian and give people more equal say in politics. For another we really don't need that many pure specialists at this stage of our development. As far as the North goes, I'm not sure. I think advisers gives us more control but intermarriage could give more long-lasting ties.
Or we continue with our project and diploannex the Pearl Divers, giving us coast access anyway without compromising our infrastructure stacking. They already are the shortest path to the ocean
Ah cool, natural nitrogen fixing.
Though whooping and hollering works better on open field battles where intimidating the enemy works better, Pritt is better fit to our forested location?
Sounds a lot like we want a WhyNotBoth scenario.
After Iron Black Sand Beach is just an iron mine. A low grade mine at that unless I have my ore types mistaken.
Singing Sands is cool acoustics though.
I see. For a Master Warrior or Master Artisan, more skill means you get more food for less work.
A Master Farmer must do the same, or even more work to get the fields ready.
Sounds like we need central banking
So basically...push our Shamans on them and it'd be not much longer, because our shamans are the caste most strongly linked to Supernal Symphony. AND it'd make authority stem from our Natural Wonders, keeping them aligned even as they stay nomadic.
By contrast our Hunters are more aligned with elitism and our traders have the weakest ties to Supernal Symphony.
What do we know of their Supernal Symphony variant? Anything we might get from fusing ours and theirs?
Oh yeah, theres plenty of fish in the sea.
Noted and adding a warrior training action to the plan.
[X] Plan Learn Our Ways
-[X] [Salt] Yes
-[X] [Teach] Have teachers take apprentices by finding promising children, like the Holy Orders do.
-[X] [North] Put the People's shaman in with the Northlands as advisers or leaders to their new High Shaman.
-[X] [Action] Expand Agriculture (Quinoa)
-[X] [Action] Trade (Mountain Clans)
-[X] [Admin] Manage Forests (Sugar)
-[X] [Martial] Raid (Enemies of Peace Builders)
-[X] [Art] Raise Temple (Crystal Lake)
-[X] [Tribute] War
Reasoning in detail:
-[] [Salt] Yes
-[] [Admin] Manage Forests (Sugar)
Continue diplo-annexing the Pearl Divers and start locking in our Sugar production.
-[] [Teach] Have teachers take apprentices by finding promising children, like the Holy Orders do.
This doesn't hurt franchise too badly, since apprenticeships are nominally open to all, you can still 'break in' by finding individuals who'd let you.
Also improves productivity a lot, apprentices allows teachers to INCREASE productivity during training by having the students do menial or repetitive simple steps.
Its a good system for training.
-[] [North] Put the People's shaman in with the Northlands as advisers or leaders to their new High Shaman.
Most likely to convert them to Supernal Symphony and assimilate them.
-[] [Action] Expand Agriculture (Quinoa)
We need to start locking in more agriculture types as repeating. Quinoa is a good start.
Train warriors because we need more. So, why Warriors rather than Holy Orders?
Apprenticeship system. We want to break the system in by training mass amounts of professional warriors who aren't part of the exclusive elites to maintain franchise.
-[] [Martial] Raid (Enemies of Peace Builders)
-[] [Art] Raise Temple (Crystal Lake)
Compulsory actions for stability reasons and to push the Temple stability and legitimacy bonuses.
Tribute then must be Food. Train Warriors, Sugar production, raising temples all consume food. We need more food to maintain the surplus.
Switched tribute to War and Train Warriors to meddling with Mountain collapse for political reasons
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[X] Plan Learn Our Ways
[ ] [Teach] Limit the amount of skill needed to be an adult, numerous dilettante can serve just as well as a specialist.
[X] Plan Learn Our Ways
-[X] [Salt] Yes
-[X] [Teach] Have teachers take apprentices by finding promising children, like the Holy Orders do.
-[X] [North] Put the People's shaman in with the Northlands as advisers or leaders to their new High Shaman.
-[X] [Action] Expand Agriculture (Quinoa)
-[X] [Action] Train Warriors (Warriors)
-[X] [Admin] Manage Forests (Sugar)
-[X] [Martial] Raid (Enemies of Peace Builders)
-[X] [Art] Raise Temple (Crystal Lake)
-[X] [Tribute] Food
[X] Plan Learn Our Ways
-[X] [Salt] Yes
-[X] [Teach] Have teachers take apprentices by finding promising children, like the Holy Orders do.
-[X] [North] Put the People's shaman in with the Northlands as advisers or leaders to their new High Shaman.
-[X] [Action] Expand Agriculture (Quinoa)
-[X] [Action] Train Warriors (Warriors)
-[X] [Admin] Manage Forests (Sugar)
-[X] [Martial] Raid (Enemies of Peace Builders)
-[X] [Art] Raise Temple (Crystal Lake)
-[X] [Tribute] Food
You don't have open field battles. The forests are so dense that you're lucky to be able to see a human sized target 10 meters in front of you that isn't trying to hide in most locations. Trying to hide is nearly effortless. It's much, much easier to hide and strike immediately from stealth to immediately maim or kill. Priit's basically criticizing them by being too noisy. 'Fat, dumb, stupid, and slow,' would be his near exact words.
The issue is more: you're a trader from the Island Makers coming with 10 pounds of mica to trade. The People can either give you five pounds of maple sugar or 40 pounds of salt. Which are you going to trade for in order to preserve more food? The price disparity is killer. Having to directly boil maple sap to maple sugar is incredibly time consuming. In modern distilleries, you'll make about 25 milliliters of maple syrup per liter of maple sap. Getting solid sugar yields only a few grams per liter of sap. Not only is that an enormous requirement of wood in order to boil it all, but some poor idiot has to carry buckets of sap for kilometers on rough terrain in order to get to the distillery.
Sounds like we need central banking
You can't quite have a central bank. Best you can hope for is a Command Economy by moving towards a centralized system.
You probably won't pick anything up from it. They are much more focused on the original Wanderlust part of the trait where you've strongly de-emphasized that in order to focus more on the Wonderlust portion.
I don't mind if they are included.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
This is indeed true, but is that what we want or need? Right now with the merged training option they are a valuable buffer, a source of innovations(especially in travel), and an occasional source of warriors due to blood brother networks.
If we integrate them now they will settle (because Supernal Symphony will compel them to), and all we get out of it is a one-time population boost(if they join an existing settlement) or a really inconvenient new settlement (if they convert their camp into a settlement).
Walker Of Chaos
Best/Worst Dynasty
- Location
- Sweden
[X] Plan Learn Our Ways
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- Pronouns
- He/Him
Anyway, might as well actually vote for what i'm saying
[X] Plan The Family that Slays Together
-[X] [Salt] Yes
-[X] [Teach] Have teachers take apprentices by finding promising children, like the Holy Orders do.
-[X] [North] Work the Northlands' hunters into the People's training program.
-[X] [Action] Expand Agriculture (Quinoa)
-[X] [Action] Train Warriors (Warriors)
-[X] [Admin] Manage Forests (Sugar)
-[X] [Martial] Raid (Enemies of Peace Builders)
-[X] [Art] Raise Temple (Crystal Lake)
-[X] [Tribute Focus] Spirit
[X] Plan The Family that Slays Together
-[X] [Salt] Yes
-[X] [Teach] Have teachers take apprentices by finding promising children, like the Holy Orders do.
-[X] [North] Work the Northlands' hunters into the People's training program.
-[X] [Action] Expand Agriculture (Quinoa)
-[X] [Action] Train Warriors (Warriors)
-[X] [Admin] Manage Forests (Sugar)
-[X] [Martial] Raid (Enemies of Peace Builders)
-[X] [Art] Raise Temple (Crystal Lake)
-[X] [Tribute Focus] Spirit
DarkLight140
Credit to Team
- Location
- Lost in my thoughts
Speaking of one-time population boosts, I'm wondering if that might be the result of the "Special outcome" for the Trade (Mountain Clans) action. Raid (Mountain Clans) is obviously providing Arrow Lake with significant population but we're not slave-takers, so that won't do the same for us; however, considering that the mountain clans are actively starving (Severe Starvation for their economy) and horribly vulnerable to raids (Scattered Refugees are an awful military rating) I'm wondering if any trade action with them is basically showing up and going "look, we need people, move in with us and at least we won't work your men to death and mass-rape your women, you'll just be debtors for a few years- less if you hand over all the shinies you own to pay for your initial housing and food costs".
If that's what it does, it might be worth looking at closely- particularly if we do allocate our tribute actions to food. Population is very nice and we're not doing so hot on that front right now. Admittedly, there's no "Numbers" rating in the leaderboard, but I certainly haven't gotten the impression that we're particularly numerous compared to our neighbors.
If that's what it does, it might be worth looking at closely- particularly if we do allocate our tribute actions to food. Population is very nice and we're not doing so hot on that front right now. Admittedly, there's no "Numbers" rating in the leaderboard, but I certainly haven't gotten the impression that we're particularly numerous compared to our neighbors.
- Location
- USA
So are they basically high off of their success and simply believing that their own propaganda enough that they aren't pushing to become warriors rather than maintaining their militias?
So would increasing our sugar production only moderate the damage being done? As we clearly can't stop them from utilizing the salt that they are already producing from their salterns.
Obviously when it comes to labor costs it seems that producing sugar as a preservative will likely go down in priority due to the fact that salt is readily and easily more available. So essentially sugar will likely end up becoming a luxury in comparison.
What would continuing to produce sugar and salt do, and aside from our meta reasons of continuing to send advisors to influence them, what reasons do the Pearl Divers have for us to help them build more as this doesn't really in character help us much at all?
So what will happen when the Mountain Clans collapse and they run out of slaves? It doesn't seem like their slaves will last very long at the rate they are working them.
So are these two places going to be marked on the eventual new map? Like how close are they/far away from us?
So, is the Stone Age Law Megaproject still open for us?
Is there a way for us to put a quota on how many specialists we truly need?
Would making actual currency or changing or economic system help with this issue?
That was convenient. Was the Nat 100 for the entire situation in general, their being of a good disposition towards us, or was that just for the fact that it was Alloo's family who ended up being the main faction left.
So, considering that Priit sees her as a Blood Sister, is she a formal part of the People as she is a member of his slate?
What will this entail, is this fusion, or is this something different? Such as, will we just gain another settlement, their summer one, as we've now absorbed them?
What utilitarian purpose do they provide for us now? I know that we will likely need them later to produce the heat necessary to forge bronze and other metals, but what would we use them for now?
Is there a way for us to further gain some of their current techs as it seems like we still are their main source of trade.
Would Train Warriors reduce the damage done to us?
Considering how we only have one more spot to build a temple at, will going three turns of temple building do anything for us as I doubt it will lock it down.
I take it that since we already have the three crops that this megaproject describes, those being corn, squash, and beans, that there is another issue that is making it so that we don't meet the prerequisites then? Do we need to lock all three in as agricultural options for this to be unlocked?
Because so far only the squash and corn are included as farming options. How would we get the beans necessary to innovate something that unlocks this? I'm assuming we need to manage our forests and take gathering right?
Or do we not yet have the requisite agricultural knowledge to conceive of this?
As usual for the leaderboard we reign supreme at the top, though our military might is awfully reduced.
The Tribe of the West have vaulted mightily from their place, four prestige points gained if I recall correctly. Their military may not be as elite as ours but is likely to be quite numerous. The major change of theirs seems to be from their booming agriculture, which makes me wonder what they learned to get that high up. Do they have the Three Sisters already?
Arrow Lake remains the same.
The Island Makers remain the same as last time.
The Bond Breakers have vaulted the leaderboards, likely from defeating the South Lake Tribe and taking their prestige. They don't seem to have advanced much otherwise.
The Pearl Divers are the same as last time.
The Peace Builders now having savaged rather than greatly reduced warriors seems to suggest that their neighbors are kicking their asses right now. As that is all that has changed on their line.
South Lake is essentially at 1 Prestige meaning they are done for as that is the position the Mountain Clans are at, and they are scattering as well.
The Mountain Clans are done for.
The Northlands are our vassal and still recovering.
So...considering how two actions with the Mountain Clans are highlighted here, does anyone think we might need to consider spending an action on this as it seems like this may effect the course of their collapse?
We're now capped at 1 Stability and 1 Legitimacy. Hopefully once our Temple is finished we will be able to get both to 2.
Yeah, our specialization is over the cap now.
This is new. What did we roll for this, and how did we get it?
It seems like we've gained pumpkins.
Seems like the stonemasons and other assorted specialists have been combined into general craftsmen.
[X] Plan Learn Our Ways
Virian
Sage of Reason and incomplete information
- Location
- Where logic has never been before
- Pronouns
- he/him
[X] [Salt] Yes[/QUOTE]
[X] [Teach] Empower the Big Men. Given them the ability to formally direct the labour and resources of others.
[X] [North] Try and take the Northlands into the People fully, adopting them through new Blood Ties.
[X] [Action] Expand Agriculture (Quinoa)
[X] [Action] Train Warriors (Warriors)
[X] [Admin] Manage Forests (Sugar)
[X] [Martial] Raid (Enemies of Peace Builders)
[X] [Art] Raise Temple (Crystal Lake)
[X] [Tribute Focus] Spirit
[X] [Teach] Empower the Big Men. Given them the ability to formally direct the labour and resources of others.
[X] [North] Try and take the Northlands into the People fully, adopting them through new Blood Ties.
[X] [Action] Expand Agriculture (Quinoa)
[X] [Action] Train Warriors (Warriors)
[X] [Admin] Manage Forests (Sugar)
[X] [Martial] Raid (Enemies of Peace Builders)
[X] [Art] Raise Temple (Crystal Lake)
[X] [Tribute Focus] Spirit
- Location
- Meycauayan, Bulacan, Philippines
[X] [Salt] No
[X] [Teach] Develop a group whose responsibility it is to ensure enough specialists are trained without wasting food.
[X] [North] Work the Northlands' hunters into the People's training program.
[X] [Action] Expand Agriculture (Quinoa)
[X] [Action] Train Warriors (Warriors)
[X] [Admin] Manage Forests (Sugar)
[X] [Martial] Raid (Enemies of Peace Builders)
[X] [Art] Raise Temple (Crystal Lake)
[X] [Tribute] Food
[X] [Teach] Develop a group whose responsibility it is to ensure enough specialists are trained without wasting food.
[X] [North] Work the Northlands' hunters into the People's training program.
[X] [Action] Expand Agriculture (Quinoa)
[X] [Action] Train Warriors (Warriors)
[X] [Admin] Manage Forests (Sugar)
[X] [Martial] Raid (Enemies of Peace Builders)
[X] [Art] Raise Temple (Crystal Lake)
[X] [Tribute] Food
DarkLight140
Credit to Team
- Location
- Lost in my thoughts
Doubling down on an action counts as taking it twice, right? If that's so and there are no significant costs other than Stability to doubling down on an action, it occurs to me that since a temple is worth both stability and legitimacy, we can double down on one and finish it in a single action while settling for only the Legitimacy boost (but also everything else that a temple normally gives). As I understand it we want to finish getting a temple in every settlement ASAP so that we can lock them into our settlements as autobuilds, so this might be a decent way to speed that up.
This is applicable to Plan Learn Our Ways in particular since it looks like it's only applying a single action to temple construction, which would leave it half finished this turn.
This is applicable to Plan Learn Our Ways in particular since it looks like it's only applying a single action to temple construction, which would leave it half finished this turn.
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Ah gotcha. Time and war would fix that
To clarify, in the short term, increase in production of sugar can help slow down it being displaced by salt. This is important to us because we can avoid stability loss from unhappy traders upset about their trade goods becoming less favored when we're dealing with social unrest.
In the mid term, continuing to expand salt production allows our traders to leverage the popularity of salt as a trade good to generate trade imbalance(because they all get salt through us since nobody else contacts the Pearl Divers), and allow us to impose trade pressure on the Peace Builders and Arrow Lake.
In the long term, salt is king for food preservation. It's cheap to produce in manpower, functionally infinite in supply and the demand is larger than the supply until the modern era.
To this end, we're investing even more into the Pearl Divers to try to drag them into our cultural sphere. We want the sea access anyways.
Am aware. Is joke.
Reminder that they don't actually provide any significant numbers of warriors.
We killed them all last turn, and they'd take another 2-3 turns to recover to the point that they can replenish them, even with joint training.
History says one of the following:
-Slaves breed. Make slavery hereditary and problem solved.
-Hey, those guys over there don't trade anything important and their walls are crap.
-We have lapis lazuli their chiefs want so badly. We can buy more slaves with them and let them sell us their criminals, political foes and their enemies.
Higher centralization and better communications. Currently the quota is pretty much just eyeballing it on gut feeling because nobody knows the minimum amount needed or the maximum amount we can support.
We need one of the following to solve this issue:
-Degrade our elitism and let the market normalize as people don't need to be a white-collar equivalent to be able to vote. Will lead to a drop in advancements.
This is what loosening the restrictions leads towards.
-Command economy, and actually be able to find out how much resources are needed so you can order people to train or not. Needs consistent supply of skilled leaders to make it work. Goodbye elected leadership.
This is what elevating Big Men or Longhouses will lead towards.
-Make training more efficient so that it no longer causes an unpredictable loss in productivity. Apprenticeship does this by hard capping the number of people who might seek training and by putting the students to productive work immediately. Mystery cults do this by training fixed numbers in bulk allotments.
This is what the Mystery Cult teachers or Apprenticeship lead towards
Pottery, sugar production, mortar production, brick production. We use a LOT of fuel for making all these things, and charcoal gates glazed pottery(which needs higher temperatures than you get by burning wood alone to make the glaze material bond with the ceramic).
By making charcoal in large kilns it should cut the costs of production for them.
Our domestic concerns take priority. Currently planning on sticking to the plan and riding out their collapse.
We do a lot of fishing. Someone probably just noticed that the dumps for fish entrails are particularly lush.
This is deliberate. We need to build temples for 3 turns in a row to lock in Aeva's admin innovation. If we finish the temple this turn we'd need to redline religious authority to lock in that.
- Location
- nz
[X] Plan Learn Our Ways