Flandre's Quest (Touhou) World - (Madness Quest)
- Thread starter Entropy Judge
- Start date
Slith10
Back from the dead and ready to party!
- Location
- New Zealand
Which is why we can't just act like a blind animal stuck in a trap, we need to learn that planning helps and sometimes killing doesn't help. Making people respect/fear you is good, making them dead/hate you runs contrary to it.
Last edited:
Flan doesn't plan though. She "Plays" and she Breaks. Her Impulsiveness and childishness are a MASSIVE part of her character. It's why even when she got her power mostly under control she was still confined to the Devil Mansion if I remember right. She just broke people in when she got too excited and generally did what she wanted when she felt like it.
At this point it feels less like Flan's decision and more like a strategists, and that's not her in the slightest.
At this point it feels less like Flan's decision and more like a strategists, and that's not her in the slightest.
Slith10
Back from the dead and ready to party!
- Location
- New Zealand
... Really? 'I'm not going to murder this person right now and focus on other things' is too far out there for Flandre? She's Impulsive, not mentally incapable.
And anyway, she has changed a bit, even if 'Kill errything' was the only thing she could do in the past.
Please don't go 'I wanna have fun, let's have Flandre kill things, it's the only thing she can do.'
This'll be my last post until the next update as I'm honestly pretty tired of this.
I don't mean that Flan can't do anything but kill nor that she goes around ripping heads off.
What I DO mean is that Flan always has been and still is in this Quest, very much a simple person. She does what she feels like at the time unless she has a pressing reason not to. She helps who she likes, she hurts who she doesn't. And she generally tries to enjoy herself while taking no shit.
Even in this quest with all the character development your talking about, Flandre is very much not a Girl with a plan. She can make small goals sure. But otherwise she does as she feels like at the moment.
Just go back and read a lot of the discussion on what to do next in the thread. There really isn't much if any planning going on. It's mostly impulsive voting by the readers and whatever we think would be fun/ good at the time. Even with trying to get Luteica back to her world her plan is simply "Use the Dimension spell over and ver until it works". That's not really planning. That's more going with the flow because it's what Lutecia wants and we're going along with her because we like her.
That was what I meant. Flan isn't too complicated at her core. She helps and cares for who she likes and hurts and kills those she doesn't. She makes decisions based on what seems fun and generally just goes to her own beat. Sure she can go towards a goal but otherwise she makes her decisions emotionally. And tbh so have most of us in this Quest. That has very much stayed a part of her character.
Do you get what I mean now? Because I'm honestly beginning to get more bothered by this vote than it's worth with you constantly fighting me every step of the way. It's really not what I'm here for... Sorry.
I don't mean that Flan can't do anything but kill nor that she goes around ripping heads off.
What I DO mean is that Flan always has been and still is in this Quest, very much a simple person. She does what she feels like at the time unless she has a pressing reason not to. She helps who she likes, she hurts who she doesn't. And she generally tries to enjoy herself while taking no shit.
Even in this quest with all the character development your talking about, Flandre is very much not a Girl with a plan. She can make small goals sure. But otherwise she does as she feels like at the moment.
Just go back and read a lot of the discussion on what to do next in the thread. There really isn't much if any planning going on. It's mostly impulsive voting by the readers and whatever we think would be fun/ good at the time. Even with trying to get Luteica back to her world her plan is simply "Use the Dimension spell over and ver until it works". That's not really planning. That's more going with the flow because it's what Lutecia wants and we're going along with her because we like her.
That was what I meant. Flan isn't too complicated at her core. She helps and cares for who she likes and hurts and kills those she doesn't. She makes decisions based on what seems fun and generally just goes to her own beat. Sure she can go towards a goal but otherwise she makes her decisions emotionally. And tbh so have most of us in this Quest. That has very much stayed a part of her character.
Do you get what I mean now? Because I'm honestly beginning to get more bothered by this vote than it's worth with you constantly fighting me every step of the way. It's really not what I'm here for... Sorry.
Slith10
Back from the dead and ready to party!
- Location
- New Zealand
The part I have problems with is when people go 'This will be funny, anything else would be OOC so Lol!'. When People use 'It's OOC'/etc as excuses to justify what they want. If they want it they should use honest reasoning, not just a 'OOC' Shut-book answer. (More besides, but I'd likely be irrational about what I say. Going to try to keep my posting to a minimum until I relax.)
- Location
- A Place Miserably Bereft of Cats
There is a very powerful difference between a simple person and an irrational one. Yes, I agree that Flan is a very impulsive individual- she grew up with powers that could obliterate nigh-on everything she could possibly encounter. However, she has, over the course of the quest, gradually been growing more and more capable of delaying her own gratification, or putting off irrational decisions if they didn't necessarily serve her purposes. At her core, she still remains very whimsical, selfish and impulsive, that much hasn't changed. The character development I'm talking about has been with regards to how and when she decides to exercise her tremendous powers.
In other words, yes, she's still the same person we started out with, except now that she's actually been exposed to the world, she's learning that not every slight needs to be rectified by blasting someone into a fine red mist. And she's learning that actions have consequences that extend beyond just herself; Flan can take care of herself just fine, there's no problem there. It's the vassals she's acquiring, Lutecia and Agito, and whoever might come next, who're vulnerable.
It's almost like going out and seeing the world after being sheltered for hundreds of years makes you go gradually from someone who used it like a set of toy blocks to someone who could recognize the consequences associated with one's own actions. She's maturing- slowly, maybe, but still- and this is a good thing.
Entropy Judge
Recurring Bouts of Misanthropy
Sorry, I could have phrased this better:
Flan did take Babette's reply to mean that Whiterun is not her territory.
Slith10
Back from the dead and ready to party!
- Location
- New Zealand
TLDR: Most of the reasons don't address the other side and are controlled knee-jerk emotions. Which might do the opposite of what they intend.
Please give a reason for why '[] Laugh at the deception. You'll leave her alone … for now' is not a good idea, other than 'She will tell the brotherhood'.
EDIT: You are almost certainly just trying to make an argument/etc, but here. Please inform me.
We know the Brotherhood is going to want Flandre working for them. This is their standard MO.
We know their patron also wants the same.
We ALSO know that except for Babe there, none of them know enough about us to try and coerce us. However, she knows that Lutecia is a weak point that can be threatened or held hostage, and that we're even higher value than she first thought.
Therefore, her making it back to the Assassins increases risks to Lutecia, increases risks to us, and also raises the odds of frustration building up further to be vented at a bad time.
Letting her go is all risk no gain. Killing her means the Assassins do their usual thing of attacking us when we're at our strongest, and we get free justified murdering with blood to sate our urges. We can deal with that better than the info leak.
We know their patron also wants the same.
We ALSO know that except for Babe there, none of them know enough about us to try and coerce us. However, she knows that Lutecia is a weak point that can be threatened or held hostage, and that we're even higher value than she first thought.
Therefore, her making it back to the Assassins increases risks to Lutecia, increases risks to us, and also raises the odds of frustration building up further to be vented at a bad time.
Letting her go is all risk no gain. Killing her means the Assassins do their usual thing of attacking us when we're at our strongest, and we get free justified murdering with blood to sate our urges. We can deal with that better than the info leak.
Last edited:
- Location
- A Place Miserably Bereft of Cats
Counterpoint is that going after her and failing really tips off that Lutecia is a major weak point, and might encourage them to think of Flan as an easy mark for manipulation. When failure's a 60% chance, it's largely not worth the risk.
Slith10
Back from the dead and ready to party!
- Location
- New Zealand
Possible but we have no idea what their Patron wants, a lot of the time, they don't either. Again they know only just enough for them to likely be wary of Strong-arming the Void Being of Unknown Power (Except for the fact that we feel fight a Daedric Lord is a bad idea they don't know anything about our strength, we even got a bit smirky about trying to think of a way to do so.)
If they think about it properly, they might try approaching us in a way that doesn't make us flip the fuck out. (Unless they think we are weak and try to intimidate us. We can just No-sell that, calmly or otherwise. Not even hard to think of a way, just 'Four of a Kind' and that Lutecia freed and 2-4 of them dead/pinned/etc. We could easily come up with a better plan, even if they screw the mental pooch and go brain-dead enough to leap into things that blindly.)
Since we are likely somehow already on the side of Sithis 'Little Sithis seems positive towards that,
Exactly.
Last edited:
Not any different between tipped off and really tipped off. They will target her because thats what they do, if they know. The only solution is to rob them of the knowledge.
For what its worth if they get away I figure destroying the guild would be a good start.
It needs killing anyways
- Location
- A Place Miserably Bereft of Cats
The difference is that a kind-off tipped-off situation will probably result in at least another probe before they send in the guys who know what they're doing. We can prepare for that if we know it's coming, presuming that it's ever actually coming. It's kind of a big risk sending your heavy hitters after a target like that when you can't necessarily predict her behavior or her response.
Slith10
Back from the dead and ready to party!
- Location
- New Zealand
... You seem to hate the guild for non-quest reasons, Flandre wouldn't care about 'Oh, they are corrupt/bad people/it would do skyrim good to be rid of them.'
As I said we have a connection of some kind to Sithis, so we need to find out more about that.
It may not even matter if they know bec-
You seem determined that they are our mortal enemies, please give reasons other than 'They might get information about us'
and not 'They hate us and will attack because'. They are Assassins, not Thugs. They kill for money, not because 'because'
Would you blackmail a being from the Void connected in someway to your 'god' just because you know they care about someone? Not even knowing how dangerous they are? Wouldn't you try talking carefully?
I don't think this will be an episode of 'The Incredible
The Brotherhood should be smarter than that. (Unless they think we are weak, which a daedra-like being wouldn't be.)
The Brotherhood is neither an enemy nor an ally, we can kill ~four in a few seconds if they go pants on head about this. Being a bandit swarm isn't how they do things either. They'll likely just watch us or approach us carefully(if they aren't stupid, so only Cicero being a 'crazy bastard' to worry about.
)
Last edited:
The Guild has consistently blackmailed and coerced powerful figures to work for it. Either they get their fingers burnt trying or they WILL do it. Eliminating their source of information would prevent them from thinking they have a chance, much like most powerful, independent figures.
Babette has substantial information on our weaknesses, which gives them a shot at it. Killing her means no risks, they could keep trying and get crushed or they wise up and stop poking. Just another mystery too strong to fuck with.
If she meets them and conveys the information then they can launch actually effective coercion attempts and attacks, rather than clearing it by a decisive margin. In which case wholesale destruction as per Remilia would be necessary to get rid of them.
Why let them have our real weaknesses instead of them keeping hands off after we ripped off the first to try?
Babette has substantial information on our weaknesses, which gives them a shot at it. Killing her means no risks, they could keep trying and get crushed or they wise up and stop poking. Just another mystery too strong to fuck with.
If she meets them and conveys the information then they can launch actually effective coercion attempts and attacks, rather than clearing it by a decisive margin. In which case wholesale destruction as per Remilia would be necessary to get rid of them.
Why let them have our real weaknesses instead of them keeping hands off after we ripped off the first to try?
Last edited:
Slith10
Back from the dead and ready to party!
- Location
- New Zealand
I'm thinking them not knowing has them thinking they have a chance, because currently they think we are an average vampire/etc. That Sithis connection is intriguing as anything.
If we kill Babette, they will likely keep attacking because of pride.
Only point they didn't know was Lutecia.
Since we are a vampire, likely sun will affect us, since we travel with Lutecia, we care about her. A single day of observing us and done, they have the info you suggest we kill Babette for. Also they have reason to use it in that case.
The only parts she got out of us from her bluff were the parts that wouldn't help them attack us, more learn about US as people, rather than as a target.
Last edited:
Not true, because we don't actually seem weaker in the day unless we did much fighting.
It was clarified a bit ago.
The idea was that we can violently disa use them of that more effectively if they don't knoe anything of our nature. Babette makes us seem a lot more understandable in terms of power even as our origins grow more exotic.
If they attack us without knowing our weaknesses and we annihilate them(which we would), that either deters further probes...or they really ARE lemming enough to massacre.
How thoroughly could we blow up this town? If we could blanket nuke it to the point where there's no chance on anything surviving, then we don't have to worry about secrets getting out, we make a very strong case for anyone that might be thinking of messing with us to stay the fuck away, we potentially get on the Daedras' mailing list, and lololololol. If our companions ask, we tell them we thought we saw a bug.
Again, not suggesting we should do this, just wondering if we could do this.
Again, not suggesting we should do this, just wondering if we could do this.
Last edited:
Slith10
Back from the dead and ready to party!
- Location
- New Zealand
Read the Update again. It seems to mention something similar.
From what I can tell, the biggest thing stopping her is that she seems to think that Mephala is physically in the city, and that killing her would piss off the other princes, and Babs was kind of unclear on whether that is actually the case. But, fine, I'll stop suggesting we genocide the town. For now. I still think the idea has merit, though. Certainly more than it did the last time it happened.