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Firebird, a Worm AU/Xover?

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chibipoe said:
All the same. By May... well, the question of who knows about her precognition will be... a lot of people. Because she'll have no choice.

Next up, finishing this arc and some interlude(s), and then we move forward a bit, to the later part of March. Next arc is going to be explosive.
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Is that May, real-time, or May, story-time?
 
chibipoe said:
Lisa has info that, presumably, Coil doesn't have. She was there to just go in/out and get more information on Taylor for her boss. And you're right about that. Thing is, I see TT as the Vizier, after a fashion, to Coil. And what does the Vizier do?
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Depends on whether you mean the actual meaning of the term, or the popularized literature-esque version i.e. Disney's Jafar (or an inversion of it :p)
 
I think that the strongest argument Taylor has is just being honest- "I don't want to be part of the Wards, and I'm not going to stop being a hero. If you put me in the Wards, they will be legally responsible for my safety, which means they will try to stop me from going out without them. This means that I can't call them in for help if I get over my head, and makes it harder and more dangerous for me to be a hero as I'll have to try and avoid any of the heroes. This also means I can't team up with any other independent heroes that might run into the Protectorate/Wards, so If you put me In the Wards you effectively remove any possible support structure that would keep me safe."

This basically relies on Taylor resolving to go out regardless, refusing to play along with being entered into the Wards, and being able to avoid the heroes with difficulty rather than not at all or with ease. All of these are realistic and sensible things as far as Taylor is concerned, which she may or may not be able to present coherently.
 
Sasha said:
P.S. Sorry if this somewhat incoherent, but I just woke up and have not had any caffeine yet.
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No worries - it wasn't incoherent.

On the whole I think you've got some valid points. I think there might be other interpretations, but that mostly falls under the category of "Are they convinced there's something to be gained here?" The other gangs might care more if it gives them an excuse to get rid of Coil.. but that requires him to be enough of an annoyance / problem that they are looking for an excuse to work together anyway.

(Which, in canon!Worm, he wasn't.)


The other part of all of this is that if Taylor tells her story she's going to tell everyone who hears about it exactly what Coil's power is. She saw something that didn't happen through precognition. The minute it started to go south it never happened. That means that Coil's power is precognition - he foresaw Taylor "pulping" his team and retroactively didn't send them in.


Does that matter? Well, sort of. It won't have an immediate effect on what the gangs do. It will have an effect long-term if they realize Coil tends to drop timelines that go poorly. That's going to change their "rules of engagement" when dealing with Coil. Things like there is no overkill or self-destruct devices are your friend will become mandatory.

Coil's men show up? Break out the rocket launcher. Blow up their van, kill every single one of them, make it as messy as possible and don't care about police investigation.. because Coil will see that possible future, realize he just lost an entire team, and promptly discard that attack.


Can Coil work around this? Sure. Two or three attacks on the same target and he'll have snipers ready to take out the guys with the rocket launchers.. but that's more time, more irritation, and overall slower progress for Coil.

Somehow I just don't see Coil being happy about that..
 
Word of precog is only trusted to be true when desired and when lying isn't suspected.
IE Ask Dinah will we die, she has no reason to lie and you clearly wanted to know. Some random kid walks into the police station and says we're all going to die in the next two years. "Sure, ok kid. Now let's find your parents."
 
Nicholai said:
Actually what I was pointing out was the rule about not trying to find out who parahumans are behind the mask and the rule about not going after parahumans "at home" or when they are in their civilian life.

If you hit an E88 site and Hookwolf decides to intervene, well, that's Hookwolf's decision and not your fault.

Spying on the same E88 site to figure out who Hookwolf is and then going after him when he's at home, hitting the grocery store, or at the gym is your fault.

The second one is what Coil is doing to Taylor right now. It is what he has done to Lisa in the past. It is what he did to Dinah in canon!Worm. (Unless I missed a Word o' Chibi we aren't at that point in the timeline in this story..)


So.. do I have a faulty understanding of the unwritten rules?
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I don't know if they were ever quantified, since, you know, being unwritten. But effectively, if you find out a cape's civ id, you don't use it against them. Don't attack them at home/use their family against them.

Coil didn't find out from her cape id(as she didn't have one at the time she hit his radar), and could make a case he doesn't have any knowledge of her as a cape(blatant lies). But anyway. I think it also depends on who you are/is backing you. You find out an E88 cape's id and attack them at home... vastly different to finding out some nobody hero with no backing's id.

As to the timeline, at this point, we are in early March. March 1st, 2011, to be precise, at around 4 in the afternoon. Dinah is... April? Early May? Not yet, either way.

Sasha said:
Is that May, real-time, or May, story-time?
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Yes.(Seriously. I hope we'll be into that arc by the end of May, but in real-time, May in the story will likely happen after. I'm at the pace of 1 installment a week, so we'll be well into arc 3 in May real time, for certain, which will carry of March/into April, probably. Then figure out what happens between arc 4 and arc 5(which should likely be May 2011. Probably)

Metroidvania said:
Depends on whether you mean the actual meaning of the term, or the popularized literature-esque version i.e. Disney's Jafar (or an inversion of it :p)
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The trope version

me.me.here said:
I think that the strongest argument Taylor has is just being honest- "I don't want to be part of the Wards, and I'm not going to stop being a hero. If you put me in the Wards, they will be legally responsible for my safety, which means they will try to stop me from going out without them. This means that I can't call them in for help if I get over my head, and makes it harder and more dangerous for me to be a hero as I'll have to try and avoid any of the heroes. This also means I can't team up with any other independent heroes that might run into the Protectorate/Wards, so If you put me In the Wards you effectively remove any possible support structure that would keep me safe."

This basically relies on Taylor resolving to go out regardless, refusing to play along with being entered into the Wards, and being able to avoid the heroes with difficulty rather than not at all or with ease. All of these are realistic and sensible things as far as Taylor is concerned, which she may or may not be able to present coherently.
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A very good summation. Possibly even one she saw and dismissed... but the problem, of course, is Danny having an inordinate amount of belief in the system, and would it convince him?
 
@chibipoe oh I completely agree that Danny has a point, far more of one than Taylor. I also think he's in the right. I can just empathise with where Taylor is coming from. She may not be articulating her point well but it's totally valid from her point of view. This speaks well of your writing.

Danny is just going about this in the worst way he could. She has enough power that she could easily pull a runner like she did in canon of he pushes too hard. So bang on as far as characterisation goes.

On the coil front; we know what kind of forces he's poking, but from his perspective he's playing things careful. He has no way of knowing how doomed he is.

Loving the story, can't wait for more.
 
Honestly I'm waiting for when Coil will do the monumentally stupid move and kidnapps Danny as leverage against Taylor since it seems his usual ways aren't working.
 
Chojomeka said:
Honestly I'm waiting for when Coil will do the monumentally stupid move and kidnapps Danny as leverage against Taylor since it seems his usual ways aren't working.
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Nah. That would be, as you said, monumentally stupid. Bear in mind, he's made exactly two actions against her so far(that we know of). One was feeling out. The other, as well, but things prompted the breaking it off to avoid damage/loss of other assets. He doesn't want to trade one thinker for another. He wants to collect them all.
 
chibipoe said:
Nah. That would be, as you said, monumentally stupid. Bear in mind, he's made exactly two actions against her so far(that we know of). One was feeling out. The other, as well, but things prompted the breaking it off to avoid damage/loss of other assets. He doesn't want to trade one thinker for another. He wants to collect them all.
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That's the true problem when facing Coil, he is a patient man most of the time. As long as he keeps things slow and methodical he can beat anyone, not today or tomorrow but sooner or later someone will make a mistake, and unlike others he can undo his. Of course, in this particular case hitting backspace will only make things worse for him, especially since they will be worse without his knowledge.

And by the way I imagine that once a week Coil puts a full merc team on a van and have them performing a Recon in Force while he catchs up with his paperwork and reading, so while in one posible future they get back to base after a pointless tour of BB in many others they perform random attacks against the Empire, ABB, New Wave, and any independant Coil has intel on their location, regardless of their success or lack of it he gets a ton of information without even bothering to pay a combat bonus.
 
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daimahou said:
And he won't let them ride their bikes indoors. His villainy knows no bounds!

Ahem. So, next stop is the Dallons, will Taylor let her barriers down to get a better feel of them?
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Maybe. I'm trying to work out how to start 2.8 off. I'm on a kick of not flanderizing everyone, so I guess my next targets might be Carol. If Amy's around though, super awkwardness go(A Rival appears! Amy is suspicious! Clash for Vicky's heart!'
 
chibipoe said:
Maybe. I'm trying to work out how to start 2.8 off. I'm on a kick of not flanderizing everyone, so I guess my next targets might be Carol. If Amy's around though, super awkwardness go(A Rival appears! Amy is suspicious! Clash for Vicky's heart!'
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Jealous Amy, misinterpreting Taylor's relationship with her sister?

Yes.
Do it.
NOW.
...
Please?
 
Sasha said:
Shipping intensifies...
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I can safely that Taylor isn't being shipped with Amy or Vicky. I do have a possible relationship in mind, but it requires much delicacy and it may not even work out, depending on how the story goes. I do not, at present, even know if there will be space for it. Ve shall see.
 
chibipoe said:
I can safely that Taylor isn't being shipped with Amy or Vicky. I do have a possible relationship in mind, but it requires much delicacy and it may not even work out, depending on how the story goes. I do not, at present, even know if there will be space for it. Ve shall see.
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Well.. Brian always did remind me of Scott Summers in the worst ways. The imprint of Jean is apparently into that sort of thing, so...:p
 
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