[Exalted, ?] Most High

Alright let's think about this...

Clarity is a cold state of mind, and with all these self-chilling trouts flying around WE MAY CAUSE AN IMBALANCE IN TEMPERATURE.
THUS REQUIRING US TO MANIPULATE THE WEATHER FOR OUR BENEFITS, TIME BETTER SPENT TRAINING.

Q.E.D WE WANT LESS CLARITY, TO STAY WARM.
Hah! As if any time spend adjusting for trout based weather changes could deminish the long term benefits of rapid XP generation!
We're getting that vote now, a significant number of people are diving right into it.

The incentives to being a greater monster aren't going to go away, if anything, they're going to get even more lucrative.
Look on the bright side! We know that no matter how far we go Ivory will be willing to stand with us.
 
I'm against abandoning Luseng, no matter which option wins. Speaking from experience, the lack of a tightly focused narrative is detrimental to a quest's health, and Luseng has been interesting so far. Ulyssian accepted an Intimacy to these people, so he should make use of them, whether as a stepping stone to greater power, or mortar for the bulwark that will secure the Satrapy against her enemies.
 
Because that never happened in the Age of Glories as far as we know?
We don't know a lot at all about the Age of Glories. There isn't really a metaphysical reason it wouldn't work.

Indeed. Please explain why this option will make us a monster.
It is Uly trying to remember how he was as Odyssial at the height of his power. Greatness 10, Heartlessness 10 Odyssial. Someone that would do anything to archive his goals. It leads to Uly thinking that he is finally free from "all distraction, all mental impurities, all the fleeting and purposeless stimuli that constantly assail the mind". These things are, in case you didn't notice: everything else he remotely cares about, including all his human emotions. If you think someone that considers emotions, attachment and friends as useless distractions and impurities isn't an inhuman monster, I really can't help you. It is simply not remotely human to mono-focus on a singular purpose to the detriment of all other priorities, and what is a human that abandons his humanity but a monster?
 
There is a chance that Creation will be destroyed before we can get to Lea and thus we should stay nearby any potential crisis to better react to them? We know that Anys will have massively fortified Creation against us (possibly to it's detriment against other threats) by the time we get back? It would be best to get as powerful as possible before heading out to find Lea and a time-dialated Luseng provides the best place for that? The information contained in the Library Ragnar currently holds could go a long way in protecting Creation through Prophecies till we can more easily defend it on our own?

Well playing devils advocate

Lea is the second strongest Lunar(soon to be first if we help her make a monkey fur coat) who holds a variety of Odyissial's relics with the possibility of having his crown, armor, and/or ring.

As we focus on this journey and go deeper into Odyissial's memories, we can figure where Fairest aka the strongest Siderael and the only one who make Limit Break Ody calm his ass down. Oh and it gives us a chance to collect the descendants of our loyal deagonblooded on the way. If we left Luseng in the hands of Uncle Pan, Moom, Nilul, and Lily then they should be able to hold the fort long enough for us to reach Lea. If our death was faked then sneaking out would be much easier.

It would not be an easy choice.
 
I'm pretty sure tracking down the soul of someone that died, implanting it in a body that's identical to the old one and then giving them the old person's memories is actually possible in Exalted. It just doesn't count as a resurrection.

Then explain why it wouldn't work? Souls reincarnate, and an eldar Solar could easily track down the soul of his dead child, then use craft genesis to warp it's new body to match the old one and implant the memories, assuming they were backed up.
This has been tried before. It either doesn't work, or partially works, but results in the creation of a Liminal Exalt, who is not the person you were trying to bring back.
 
No the incentives to GROW STRONGER in order to deal with the big threats to Creation are going to get more lucrative.


But then how could the people of Luseng be protected? if the person we trust is with US instead of protecting them and no we WON'T BE GIVEN INCENTIVE TO BECOME A MONSTER, we will be given incentive to GROW STRONGER and we can still vote to mitigate that with write-in options or stunts.

The biggest issue is that options to GET STRONGER and not become monsters usually comes with significant risks. And you know how SV shy away from any actions that carry risks. That just leaves two valid type of actions. Choose the MONSTER option for MAXIMUM POWER. Or choose to preserve current power and edge out opponents via slow gaining XP.
 
I'm against abandoning Luseng, no matter which option wins. Speaking from experience, the lack of a tightly focused narrative is detrimental to a quest's health, and Luseng has been interesting so far. Ulyssian accepted an Intimacy to these people, so he should make use of them, whether as a stepping stone to greater power, or mortar for the bulwark that will secure the Satrapy against her enemies.

Yes. I have actually been enjoying our time here. Also fuck not seeing the full potential of the Shining Metropolis after all the effort we put into it and what we gave up for it.
 
I'm against abandoning Luseng, no matter which option wins. Speaking from experience, the lack of a tightly focused narrative is detrimental to a quest's health, and Luseng has been interesting so far. Ulyssian accepted an Intimacy to these people, so he should make use of them, whether as a stepping stone to greater power, or mortar for the bulwark that will secure the Satrapy against her enemies.
Working on that. Omake incoming with Limit Break fun continuing, followed by reasons and plans for staying in Luseng for at least a till we have solved its most immediate issues, followed by the plan to return to it if we leave.
 
Sure because that isn't optimal right now. If the chances of saving Creation we're increased by destroying Luseng guess what Ody would do?

Us in Limit Break means we are in full the ends justify the means mindset and "give completely no fucks for anyone". I mean the only reason Ody didn't kill Moon and Nilul right off the bat was because they were still useful to him.It wasn't friendship or love that saved them but their current usefulness to him. He even said for now which implies that if they ever lose that usefulness he won't think twice about killing them if he has to.

Which is why I really want to ensure that future limit breaks we have are lessened in scope and that we have incentive to get rid of the great curse because Uly actually considering killing Moon and Nilul is not okay by any means. These are people has major ties to and he actually considered killing them. If they had been less important..

This is the problem with Limit Break, not Embrace Clarity. Also, it is not as bad as you are suggesting. The odds of us killing our friends is very low. Here:

It was unlikely that any of them could help him remember who he was. He considered the best way to stop them from distracting him. They were useful allies, so eliminating them wasn't advisable at this juncture.

"I'm busy," he replied, and the Crown of Metis gave terrible strength to his words.

Now, how best to go about remembering who he was?

Odyssial also feels that killing people who try and talk with him to convince him of something he disagrees with is an optimal use of his time.
? Only if they actively try to stop him and are powerful enough to have a chance, by themselves or in aggregate, of succeeding. Otherwise why kill them when he could simply ignore them and save the energy?

In all cases he would be completely calm and simply take (as far as he can judge) the most efficient action to extricate himself from the situation. If he feels that these are valuable allies, then he will perform the minimum social niceties not to excessively degrade that alliance - in the case of "I'm busy," however, he discerned that they were close enough that brushing them off would not permanently damage the relationship. Basically, that they can take it, so he doesn't need to waste valuable Limit Break time tending to their feelings when his non-Limit Broken self can do so more genuinely.
 
Last edited:
This has been tried before. It either doesn't work, or partially works, but results in the creation of a Liminal Exalt, who is not the person you were trying to bring back.
That only creates a Liminal if you try bringing back the dead to life. Twisting an already living person into being identical to their prior life is something completely different.
 
We don't know a lot at all about the Age of Glories. There isn't really a metaphysical reason it wouldn't work.
Because why would the Primordials bother to implementing something like that into the soul recycling system they set up when one human is as good as any other to them as long as their prayer engines keep the juice flowing? (and if humans didn't need to fear death than they'd pray less)
 
Because why would the Primordials bother to implementing something like that into the soul recycling system they set up when one human is as good as any other to them as long as their prayer engines keep the juice flowing? (and if humans didn't need to fear death than they'd pray less)
How do the Primordals need to do anything to allow for the implementation of that? It is easily possible to change a mortal body with sorcerous workings and it is equally easy to give someone memories. The Primordals would need to implement a dedicated system to prevent this method from working.
 
Anyway, I would prefer snapping out of it to Resist, simply because I feel abandoning the Crown after proving ourselves unworthy to bear it is more thematically appropriate and it provides a sure avenue to success (even in inefficiency, Ulyssian is efficient), but I would gladly take Resist over Embrace. I'm here to play Ulyssian, not Odyssial; I understand that's a somewhat silly thing to say, given they're the same soul with many overlapping attributes, but I am far more attached to Ulyssian as a person than I am to the Odyssial persona. Victory is worth nothing, if you abandon the things you're fighting for in the first place: for me, that would be Moon. I don't want to betray the faith she's placed in us; it's as simple as that.

If we must embrace something, let us embrace selfishness. It is not wrong to care for your friends, to place them on a pedestal to stand apart from the faceless multitudes that besiege your heart. To care more for those dearest to you... that's not a mistake, that's human. Odyssial may have been right that you can only defend one thing above all others, but if that's the case... let that thing be our friends. Shackling ourselves to the common good, becoming a slave to the greatest good for the greatest number, is a road that leads only to misery and pain. I want more for Ulyssian than that.
 
Last edited:
It is Uly trying to remember how he was as Odyssial at the height of his power. Greatness 10, Heartlessness 10 Odyssial. Someone that would do anything to archive his goals. It leads to Uly thinking that he is finally free from "all distraction, all mental impurities, all the fleeting and purposeless stimuli that constantly assail the mind". These things are, in case you didn't notice: everything else he remotely cares about, including all his human emotions.
This is the fault of limit break. I am not advocating thinking like this. In case you did not notice.:mad:

If you think someone that considers emotions, attachment and friends as useless distractions and impurities isn't an inhuman monster, I really can't help you. It is simply not remotely human to mono-focus on a singular purpose to the detriment of all other priorities, and what is a human that abandons his humanity but a monster?

We will still have emotions, attachment and friends. We will not think they are useless distractions and impurities (unless we are in limit break).
 
This is the fault of limit break. I am not advocating thinking like this. In case you did not notice.
So you agree that Uly in Limit Break is a monster? Then how can you vote to stay a monster any longer than necessarily?

If someone thinks like a monster, acts like a monster and could, at any time, stop doing these things but chooses not to, how is he not a monster?
 
Last edited:
Embracing Clarity means diving more into Odyissial's memories and thus his mindset. It's also the option that has the least chance of us questioning our limit break and getting rid of the great curse

Let's clarify what Embracing the Clarity will do -

*Odyssial will not try to end this Limit Break prematurely.
*Nor does he have the ability to maintain permanent Limit Break.
*He will not become an emotionless robot outside of Limit Break, though he will emerge with a greatly changed understanding of his priorities.
*While previously he was somewhat unsure and irresolute, he now will focus on the fastest path to Creation-saving power: recovering his memories and unlocking the sane and useful Elder Exalts, like Lea.

*As Ulyssian he will still experience the full range of human emotions, as suboptimal normal, and will have to deal with how those interact and
and conflict with his new priorities. It should be fun!
*Future decision points will use an incentive gradient that reflects his re-prioritization of Becoming Stronger.

See all that I bolded. Yeah Uly would prioritize getting creation saving power with actions like recovering Ody's
memories which will probably make him more like Ody and getting sane Elder Exalts like Lea.

His emotions will conflict with his new priorities. And he has stronger intimacies for strength and his Odyissial stuff then he does for his friends.

And there will be incentives to get stronger. Some of the people voting for clarity have said they're doing it to get more XP so we can face threats like Anys and Hell to name some. So their likely to vote for options to maximize our strength.

Oh and since getting stronger is a defining principle; loving to train is a major one, and he would reprioritizs getting strength any actions we take that go against us getting stronger or training more is likely give us limit making it more likely for us to limit break which will force the people who don't want to limit break to pick the incentive options even if they don't necessarily like them.
 
Last edited:
We will still have emotions, attachment and friends. We will not think they are useless distractions and impurities (unless we are in limit break).
The language you use in this instance is telling; I'm worried that we'll care more about how useful our friends are than the fact that they're our friends, dammit, and empowering and defending them should be important to us. The idea that Embracing Clarity will lead to us becoming a robot who will discard all attachments is a strawman, but it's one grown from a kernel of truth; we will prioritize getting stronger over them if we take this option.
 
Last edited:
So you agree that Uly in Limit Break is a monster? Then how can you vote to stay a monster any longer than necessarily?
I can certainly see that Ulyssian maywill take actions that I don't like in Limit Break.. eventually. But this one is mild, and there is more to an option than on how quickly we will end the limit break. The other criteria (like what we will do after the limit break is over) are also important.
 
Hmm. Rihaku, I think you said that you are going to decide which one, Clarity or non-Clarity options combined will win and then have a subvote. Will it be soon? If its so, I'm thinking about posting the first part of my omake that is almost ready and has Uly still acting in his Limit Break, then later posting the "stay in Luseng" part of it.
 
Embracing Clarity means diving more into Odyissial's memories and thus his mindset. It's also the option that has the least chance of us questioning our limit break and getting rid of the great curse



See all that I bolded. Yeah Uly would prioritize getting creation saving power with actions like recovering Ody's
memories which will probably make him more like Ody and getting sane Elder Exalts like Lea.

His emotions will conflict with his new priorities. And he has stronger intimacies for strength and his Odyissial stuff then he does for his friends.

And there will be incentives to get stronger. Some of the people voting for clarity have said they're doing it to get more XP so we can face threats like Anys and Hell to name some. So their likely to vote for options to maximize our strength.

Oh and since getting stronger is a defining principle; loving to train is a major one, and he would reprioritizs getting strength any actions we take that go against us getting stronger or training more is likely give us limit making it more likely for us to limit break which will force the people who don't want to limit break to pick the incentive options even if they don't necessarily like them.

I simply see no uplift to ideas like getting rid of the great curse. Rihaku certainly did not introduce the idea. It is like trying to make Ulyssian a diplomat to save creation. You are hamfistedly trying to put into motion a plotline the storyteller did not approve of.
 
That only creates a Liminal if you try bringing back the dead to life. Twisting an already living person into being identical to their prior life is something completely different.
My bad, I misread what you were saying.

Of course, that runs into the issue of the kid's new parents not wanting to give up their child.
 
The language you use in this instance is telling; I'm worried that we'll care more about how useful our friends are than the fact that they're our friends, dammit, and empowering and defending them should be important to us. The idea that Embracing Clarity will lead to us becoming a robot who will discard all attachments is a strawman, but it's one grown from a kernel of truth; we will prioritize getting stronger over them if we take this option.
Oh, I am sure the player base will not allow this to happen. We are unlikely to drop social interaction options completely.
 
One consequence of focusing on power above all is that we will kill many who otherwise could have been our allies, or, at least, not our enemies. Even worse, we may have to kill those who we once considered our allies. Probably not our closest allies like Moon, Nilul or Ivory, but even there there is risk. What if Saery's knowledge becomes too dangerous to countenance? What if Hero learns the truth? What if Anys convinces Zao that Odyssial truly is the reborn monster that she claims he is?

Zao will is formidable, but so too will be her arguments. They will be even more formidable when she has actual hard evidence to add to her rhetoric, memories, and bribes. Her bribes will not be small things. Rihaku mentioned that she might give him an entire circle of impressionable young Solars. What if she were to offer him access to an Adamant Circle Sorcerer? What would he be able to become then? Think about everything people want to do to enhance Moon, starting with an ancient Essence 9 monster.

Make no mistake, Zao will hear what happens on this dock. That Ulyssian would even spurn Moon in his madness is not damning by itself, but it is worrisome. It doesn't prove Anys correct, but it does support her. Whereas if the mere sight of Moon's sadness is enough to make him repent then there may yet be hope, even if Anys is right about the past.

While Zao being killed by the direct result of his own hubris would be ironically amusing, I would really like to see him actually survive just this once. I'm not saying that we'll necessarily have to fight Zao, but Embracing Clarity makes it substantially more likely. Is that a risk people are willing to take?
 
So we've gone from "Let's limit break before Moon gets here" to "We'll deal with her the moment this limit break is over, really", I wouldn't be surprised if it will become "Let's just finish unlocking all of Ody's memories, then we go back to Luseng and talk to Moon" later, especially with the massive xp bounties that will probably accompany such a choice.
 
Oh, I am sure the player base will not allow this to happen. We are unlikely to drop social interaction options completely.
Yes, that was the strawman that I addressed in my post. The very real concern, however, is that Ulyssian will subordinate all other aspects of his life in favor of gaining power. Nobody's saying he'll abandon them entirely at the outset, but this is the first step down a slope so steep and slippery that it might as well be a cliff.
 
Back
Top