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[Exalted, ?] Most High

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[X] No Taxation Without Representation
-[X] Relatively Conservative
[X] Tap the Reserves
[X] Assault On the Emerald Mountain

Let's not go completely nuts with the fraud and expose ourselves to unnecessary risk by creating another vector of reprisal Anys can use against us. Should we secure the Mountain, we will have all the funding we need. In the meantime, tapping our reserves and performing some minor economic wizardry will have to suffice while we plan our assault.
Rihaku said:
Nilul: Why would you want to cover the cute Moon up in armor?
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To ensure Moon lives on to be cute in the future?
 
Rihaku said:
It's the currency basis, and also a strategic resource. Basically gold, in a civilization on the gold standard, only rarer and with the military applications of uranium, with none of the atomic instability involved.
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Well... That'd do it. The military applications of uranium bit is magical right? Magical significance or some such?
 
Rihaku said:
You guys really want to gamble with abject fraud?
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Out of curiosity, what would be the consequences of getting caught?

Rihaku said:
You think the man who single-handedly slew ten thousand Fae and two behemoths in one battle, taking no damage has no combat power at all?
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I was using hyperbole. Everything is relative, obviously we are mighty, but our awesome personal might is not enough to be relevant in the scales we are looking at. (ex: war with realm, war with bull of north, etc)
You personally warned us about how weak we would be relatively speaking compared to the other two options before we made them.
You are personally warning us right now about how we really shouldn't attempt to solo jade mountain
 
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mrttao said:
Out of curiosity, what would be the consequences of getting caught?
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Hm, whatever she can make stick, really. It's enforcement that would be the big issue for her. Luseng is valuable and she doesn't want to lose it.

I was using hyperbole. Everything is relative, obviously we are mighty, but our awesome personal might is not enough to be relevant in the scales we are looking at. (eg, withstand the realm, or the bull of the north).
You personally warned us about how weak we would be relatively speaking compared to the other two options.
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The Realm is much, much, much bigger than the Bull of the North. You could kill the Bull of the North in a 1v1 over 99% of the time, or slaughter enough of his men with asymmetrical warfare that they would probably break eventually. I was saying you should consider allying with him to fight the Realm, but he won't accept anything less than submission. It's only his Exalted allies that are problematic.
 
How difficult would it be to somehow orchestrate Luseng being shuffled into becoming a House satrapy, and ensure that it ends up in hands friendly to us? That could massively loosen the pressure on us and I suspect that we'd be allowed a much, much more free hand with our administration if we weren't directly working for someone who doesn't actively want us to fail and die.

Not that we have a lot of House friends, what with our past choices, but it seems like it might be a decent way to wriggle free of this particular noose.
 
Well, how many months do we have to hold out if we want to wait for reinforcements before attempting to take back the mountain? If it's one or two months, it might be better for us to wait.

Also, with the deaths of so many Exalts, are there no artifacts lying around that we can sell off?
 
mrttao said:
I was using hyperbole. Everything is relative, obviously we are mighty, but our awesome personal might is not enough to be relevant in the scales we are looking at. (ex: war with realm, war with bull of north, etc)
You personally warned us about how weak we would be relatively speaking compared to the other two options before we made them.
You are personally warning us right now about how we really shouldn't attempt to solo jade mountain
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We are presently 75% of our Satrapy's combat strength, our awesome personal might is absolutely relevant. Especially since even if we had chosen Empire, it wouldn't have had enough time to actually influence the situation anyway!

The Emerald Mountain has to be conquered sometime in the future, it might as well be now before the will of our citizens degrades further.
 
Legion1771 said:
Well... That'd do it. The military applications of uranium bit is magical right? Magical significance or some such?
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It's used to make daiklaves and other such Artifacts, which are then used by enterprising Dynasts to do all kinds of fun things like summon lava or parry falling mountains at the high end. Drawing out the potential of weapons through Evocations is the primary way in which many Exalts gain access to effects outside their themes.
 
SirLagginton said:
The Emerald Mountain has to be conquered sometime in the future, it might as well be now before the will of our citizens degrades further.
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the will of our citizens is irrelevant to this endeavor. it has no effect on our combat prowess or on our wealth or anything really other than warm feelings we get inside.

SirLagginton said:
The Emerald Mountain has to be conquered sometime in the future
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And QM explicitly said that it will be safer and easier to do so once moon and our other allies arrive to help with it. Rather than us trying to solo it.
 
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DarkLight140 said:
How difficult would it be to somehow orchestrate Luseng being shuffled into becoming a House satrapy, and ensure that it ends up in hands friendly to us? That could massively loosen the pressure on us and I suspect that we'd be allowed a much, much more free hand with our administration if we weren't directly working for someone who doesn't actively want us to fail and die.

Not that we have a lot of House friends, what with our past choices, but it seems like it might be a decent way to wriggle free of this particular noose.
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That's a good idea. This would be a situation where ties with House Sesus would be helpful, but since we've effectively burned that bridge, they're probably not on the table. Nellens is the House we have the closest ties with and we're about to bolster that even further by focusing on the well-being of our citizens, though Mnemon might be amenable to working with an Anathema if we could supply ludicrous amounts of jade for use in sorcerous experiments.
 
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mrttao said:
the will of our citizens is irrelevant to this endeavor. it has no effect on our combat prowess or on our wealth or anything really other than warm feelings we get inside.
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It will be relevant in the long run, if we get around to turning them into an army of sorcerously augmented minions. I think that's the general plan, anyway; I'd have preferred Terrestrials, but it looks like we're going for quantity over quality.
mrttao said:
And QM explicitly said that it will be massively easier to do so once moon and our other allies arrive to help with it. Rather than us trying to solo it.
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If there's one thing Ulyssian's existence conclusively proves, it is that 'difficult' does not mean 'impossible'.
 
mrttao said:
the will of our citizens is irrelevant to this endeavor. it has no effect on our combat prowess or on our wealth or anything really other than warm feelings we get inside.
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And we resolved to do the best we could for our citizens, leaving them to dry is explicitly against the spirit of what we voted. And a happy citizenry is a productive citizenry, our administration would be much smoother if we had their enthusiastic support, especially if we do intend to later recruit them into our army. Loyalty is an extremely important aspect of armies after all.
mrttao said:
And QM explicitly said that it will be massively easier to do so once moon and our other allies arrive to help with it. Rather than us trying to solo it.
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We would be better advised yes, but our timetable for that is uncertain and that hardly means that it will be impossible. Furthermore if we do turn the Lily this endeavor will be much easier to handle.
 
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I am torn. I am truly truly torn! On the one hand if we go for the Cutter Cut Down, then the chance arises that we may finally grasp the true power of Salty Dog Method! On the other hand, LEEEROOOOY JENKINS appeals. It really does. I think regardless of what other options that are taken I'm definitely going to vote for at LEAST a small favor from Zao. Recouping half the debt for the next month while we get the rest of the show on the road seems like a good idea. Especially if we go for Full Filthy Lucre, then our costs are covered for two months regardless of what else gets done.

Well, I think I'll try to work out a stunt for screwing over the Imperial Bureaucrats, if we go that route anyway, which seems like it'd be fun. That'll work for the taxation option regardless.
 
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Rihaku said:
The Realm is much, much, much bigger than the Bull of the North. You could kill the Bull of the North in a 1v1 over 99% of the time, or slaughter enough of his men with asymmetrical warfare that they would probably break eventually. I was saying you should consider allying with him to fight the Realm, but he won't accept anything less than submission. It's only his Exalted allies that are problematic.
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ok, I am all kinds of confused. you said the realm is only able to hold off the bull of the north due to their naval superiority. And if he made landfall he would win.
You said that if he came to us we will have to bow down before him if we go metropolis.
Also, in regards to his allies, I thought it was a given that they will help him.

Rihaku said:
You guys really want to gamble with abject fraud?
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Sounds scary
Rihaku said:
Hm, whatever she can make stick, really. It's enforcement that would be the big issue for her. Luseng is valuable and she doesn't want to lose it.
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Sounds reassuring

I have literally no clue now as to whether it is an acceptable risk or not.
 
Emerald Oracle said:
I am torn. I am truly truly torn! On the one hand if we go for the Cutter Cut Down, then the chance arises that we may finally grasp the true power of Salty Dog Method! On the other hand, LEEEROOOOY JENKINS appeals. It really does. I think regardless of what other options that are taken I'm definitely going to vote for at LEAST a small favor from Zao. Recouping half the debt for the next month while we get the rest of the show on the road seems like a good idea.

Well, I think I'll try to work out a stunt for screwing over the Imperial Bureaucrats, if we go that route anyway, which seems like it'd be fun. That'll work for the taxation option regardless.
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We buy an extra month if we Tap The Reserves anyway. Burning up favor from Zao (not to mention the interest we'll have to pay) seems redundant when we secure the Mountain and start looting it of jade. If we're somehow not managing by next turn, then by all means we should do it then.
 
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Emerald Oracle said:
I am torn. I am truly truly torn! On the one hand if we go for the Cutter Cut Down, then the chance arises that we may finally grasp the true power of Salty Dog Method!
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My friend, I am truly sorry... but the road you have chosen is filled with pain and leads nowhere. It's futile, for the Anti-Sail Scenario (which is still not an acronym) always finds a way.
 
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mrttao said:
ok, I am all kinds of confused. you said the realm is only able to hold off the bull of the north due to their naval superiority. And if he made landfall he would win.
You said that if he came to us we will have to bow down before him if we go metropolis.
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I think Rihaku meant that if we wanted to ally with him, he wouldn't accept an equal partnership, which made any such deal unlikely in the extreme. If it came to blows, we would annihilate him.
 
-Cutter Cut Down
I bet anys will pin the blame for it on fang and erode his power base if we do that.

Orm Embar said:
I think Rihaku meant that if we wanted to ally with him, he wouldn't accept an equal partnership, which made any such deal unlikely in the extreme. If it came to blows, we would annihilate him.
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Oh, thanks for explaining
 
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Orm Embar said:
Why pin the blame on Lung Feng Zao, when she can erode our power base instead?
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Feng is our power base and she knows it. She has been explicitly eroding him for a while and we explicitly staved it off with a prophecy, which was explicitly a temporary solution.

SirLagginton said:
@Rihaku, why do the city gods believe we have sabotaged Pan's ascension?
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we rolled poorly on it

Orm Embar said:
It will be relevant in the long run, if we get around to turning them into an army of sorcerously augmented minions. I think that's the general plan, anyway; I'd have preferred Terrestrials, but it looks like we're going for quantity over quality.
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I thought making a mortal into a sorcerer is going to take a lot longer than making a DB into one.
 
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Orm Embar said:
I think it's because Ulyssian didn't succeed as overwhelmingly as he did at everything else. That's the price of hyper-competence; when you get mediocre results, people think it's part of your dastardly plot.
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That's odd, considering that we implemented the prayer program for the explicit reason of empowering the new City Father. One would think that to be rather contradictory.
mrttao said:
we rolled poorly on it and nearly botched the ritual as a result
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We rolled spectacularly, near passable by Odyssial's standards! I don't know where you got this idea that we somehow did poorly there.
 
mrttao said:
Feng is our power base and she knows it. She has been explicitly eroding him for a while and we explicitly staved it off with a prophecy, which was explicitly a temporary solution.
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Luseng is also part of our power base now; she would prefer to keep Zao around if at all possible, since he does serve a vital function in defending the Realm, it's his pet Solar she takes issue with. She won't hit him when she could hit us harder, which is why I'm not voting for that option.
mrttao said:
I thought making a mortal into a sorcerer is going to take a lot longer than making a DB into one.
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Well, I was thinking about augmenting mortals, not explicitly creating Sorcerors en masse... Though now that you mention it, that is possible:
Rihaku said:
Hm... with time and effort, Prophecies spent, and a Working or three, you could definitely get up there to dozens or even hundreds of Sorcerers, yeah. Especially if you get Legendary Scholar Curriculum and Selfsame Master Instructor, which lets you manually transmit the Sorcery Charm AND spells to 30 characters at Essence 5. You could make Ysyr look like a provincial backwater at that level of Sorcerous density. Nio would be shocked and proud! Remember, each Sorcerer in 3E is capable of performing up to Ambition 2 Solar Circle Workings, though it does take huge amounts of time and XP for Terrestrial Circle Sorcerers.
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