[Exalted, ?] Most High

What is your analysis on The Polis of Legend?

Also, which do you think we could better leverage for perpetuating immaculate heresy, the polis of legend of the shining metropolis?
Personally? The option that I think favors subtly screwing over Anys Syn with the Solar Heresy schtick is Shining Metropolis. It explicitly makes her less able to dick us over via official means, while also allowing Prophecy Spam across the entirety of Creation. That sounds tailor made for messing with her and for setting up some long term benefits to come Ulyssian and Luseng's way.

Not to mention it's also the equivalent of giving Uncle the Dog Talisman. With his newly enhanced (or restored?) prowess we could get him to teach Ulyssian some Celestial Martial arts! ...if those are still a worthwhile thing in 3E? I say this because Ulyssian learning the Conviction Martial art just seems thematically cool.
 
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[ ] The Seat of Empire - Luseng is merely the beginning, the jewel in Metis' Crown. You will carve out an empire worthy of its glory. You will forge this Legion and the legions to follow into an invincible conquering horde, and sweep across the North like an iron tide. Other satrapies will be assimilated, or they will fall. The independent nations might band together, but that will merely allow you to conquer more in one fell swoop. The engines of conquest are ravenous and perpetual, but momentum will lend you strength. The spoils of war can always be seized to maintain your armies, and within months of rapid advance you will grow to become a power that can challenge the Realm itself - or at least, that portion of those resources it could actually devote to opposing you. Other Exalts may well rally to your banner as your tide of conquest marches on, though surely you will accrue innumerable enemies as well.

*Emphasis: Military
*Special: Improved Celestial Exalt recruitment (Lunars, Solars, etc) - They will likely be substantially weaker than you. But still, Celestial Exalts! In numbers!
*Special: Massive Territories - Useful for a vast number of reasons!
*Drawback: Underdevelopment - Much territory to rule means less time devoted to each bloc of territory.
*Drawback: Attention - Enemy Celestials, and of course Anys Syn.

Move towards personally aggressive power. Try to get enough Celestial Exalted together to give Anys such a KICKING...but also enables her to go obvious on us and prove that we're a nest of Anathema.

[ ] The Polis of Legend - The borders of the satrapy are well-defined and well-defensible. Its natural resources are tremendous, and underexploited. It contains the potential to become a thriving nation, an ideal realm on the face of this Creation, an invincible bulwark against all the forces that would seek to rend this world asunder. Elsewhere the Exalted may fail to rise to their Mandates; elsewhere the strength of men may falter; elsewhere, but not here. A self-contained, highly militarized nation-state with enough jade to produce a thousand years' worth of Artifacts, you will prepare Luseng to hold the line against Realm aggression or the return of the Yozis themselves. Should the enemies of your present life, or your past, come calling - you will be ready.

*Emphasis: Lore
*Special: Deep Exploration of Luseng's Sites - Artifacts ho! Enough for a small army of Terrestrial Exalts, which leads to...
*Special: Increased Terrestrial Exalt recruitment (Dynast & Outcaste) - In much greater numbers than Anathema recruitment
*Drawback: High Personal Danger (due to deep exploration) - Don't underestimate this.
*Drawback: Dynastic Terrestrials technically loyal to Realm - You'l have to figure something out for this...

This is...essentially Solar led Lookshy setup. But requires further actions to actually convert, and of course, it puts us in personal danger on two fronts, if we are exposed, or if the exploration unleashes something best left sleeping.

[ ] The Shining Metropolis - Some merely conquer. You will rule. Luseng is rich enough that you truly do not need much territory to create something truly spectacular, and Uncle Pan is a City Father, not a Nation Father. Secure certain strategic objectives like Ausang Bu and the Emerald Mountain, but otherwise you are content with the already fairly massive land area you've reclaimed. Build out the urban centers, turn those refugees into long-standing citizens, and reach a pinnacle of trade, culture, and erudition such as this benighted age has never before seen. You may rule only one city, but it will be the greatest city in all Creation, a city without peer. Odyssial would not accept less. Uncle Pan will not accept less (though he might have to deal)!

*Emphasis: Administration
*Special: Mortal Empowerment & Edification - Quality of life massively improved for your subjects.
*Special: Realm-Wide Influence - Nellens will ensure that you are seen as a role model for satrapies everywhere, making it substantially difficult to unseat or attack you through official Realm channels.
*Special: Philosopher-King - You have the time and the global economic / academic reach to obtain sources and apply the war-mind to virtually any topic within Creation.
*Crappy Special: Uncle Pan approves! Loyalty UP
*Drawback: Relatively Modest Territory
*Drawback: Limited Exalted Recruitment - There simply aren't that many Exalts in Creation, and your heavily fortified small territory isn't exactly a hotspot of tribulation.

Time is the biggest gain here, time to unleash a ton of prophecies and cement our position in the Realm as we've done so far.
However, it doesn't actually give us the personal power to go red, and it's possible that if we do too well, we get a Mission Accomplished, Heres Your New Mission note.

[X] The Shining Metropolis

I favor continuing to secure our position in the Realm.
 
What is your analysis on The Polis of Legend?

Also, which do you think we could better leverage for perpetuating immaculate heresy, the polis of legend of the shining metropolis?

The Polis of Legend is the middle-ground, but unlike the "Build Wide" (Which goes perfectly fine as long as you don't end up boxed in, which is very likely to happen given the competence of the figures surrounding us) option, or the "Build Tall" option (Which can reach prepostrously high levels of effectiveness, and will generally win out on quality, but can be overcome in theory by one extremely overpowering attack that exceeds it's capacity to endure), it fits what's usually considered the optimal play strategy in a Civilization game--which is to say "Build Tall in your core territories, but don't neglect to make claims where you can and keep some defensive depth".

We wouldn't be as powerful on a per-city basis (Though we would certainly be much more formidable than Seat of Empire), but we would have a certain degree of strategic depth, allowing us to trade distance for time in a pinch--as well as gaining the full assets of a potentially wealthy Satrapy before they can be seized by our rivals. It's a big border--too big to effectively patrol now, but it's not so big that we couldn't correct this by conscripting the locals.

It's highly dangerous however, given how we are now certainly on the radar, and while we've removed the top general of the Deathknights, and the expeditionary force of the Freehold, we haven't actually destroyed the core strength of either side, and the Lunar has lost effectively none of his major actions. Furthermore, we still have to hope that Zao and our allies in the Realm can balk Anys Syn's attempts to consolidate power, as we cannot spare the time and energy to support them, undermine her, or take other actions--as handling Luseng in it's entirety is very much a full time job.

The large number of Terrestrials we could get from this option is Very attractive, but unless we can get Nilul or some of our other comrades moved into our camp, wrangling them to be loyal to us first, and the Realm second will be... Difficult. In short, Option A is "Overpowering strength as long as nobody manages to tarpit you first", Option B is "Risky, chancy, but provides the best balance if you can survive long enough to establish it", and Option C is "Iron core that we sit in while hurling world-spanning predictionism at our enemies until they've softened up enough to emerge"
 
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Metropolis prevents Anys from using her incredible level of influence within the Realm, while giving us a lot of influence that we can leverage.

It would also mean that if she wants to mess with us, she has either to go through unofficial channels where she is a lot weaker, or go herself.

With the other options, she can mess with us through official channels, which are harder for us to deal with while also requiring less effort for her.
 
BTW, as far as anys is concerned right now, we are a resolved issue (doomed to die on the borders). and her focus is then back on flame and the breeding program.
Her "nuclear option" as referred to by some (if we give her both the initiative and enough trouble to need to resort to it) would actually be for her to kill fang and seize the school by force. then we have to mount a rescue mission to the seat of her power to get our friends back. (in particularly moon who is a big part of her plans, but we don't know this in this timeline. i think. but we can still deduce she will take the rest of them hostage to force our hand). Killing that one general in the tourney was a huge mistake as it really hurts our diplo

or alternatively she can just declare us anathema as hessiah and lead the entire realm host against us, assuming we would be crushed.

but unless we can get Nilul
why wouldn't we?

Also, last reboot we took moon to yu shen to talk to the god of exaltation to get "proof" that the dogma is wrong. why was it proof? I am not quite familiar with the lore enough to get it, its just his word.
And is a policy where we merely stabilize this satrap and then expedition in heaven to arrange reliable regular proof to any dragonblooded we get our grubby mitts on a viable option?

we get a Mission Accomplished, Heres Your New Mission note.
that is a problem too.
 
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[X] Shining Metropolis

Get House Nellens on our side so we finally have the backing of one of the great house.

Retake the really important areas such as the Jade Mountain which we can still explore later.

The amazingness of our city is spread throughout the world which boosts our reputation considering how we were sent here because everybody thought this place was fucked.

Uncle is more loyal to us.

Anys can't hurt us officially thanks to our new rep and support with Nellens which requires unofficial means which are her less powerful option.

We can prophecy spam the shit out of Anys to weaken her influnce and power in the realm so we could really fuck her over.

I'm liking this ssssoooooo much.
 
As others has commented, this is a surprisingly tricky choice. I find myself drawn to each option in their own way. Currently, I'm supporting Polis, for that nice balance between wide and tall, and also for the Lore and exploration bonus.

[X] The Polis of Legend
 
[x] The Shining Metropolis - Some merely conquer. You will rule. Luseng is rich enough that you truly do not need much territory to create something truly spectacular, and Uncle Pan is a City Father, not a Nation Father. Secure certain strategic objectives like Ausang Bu and the Emerald Mountain, but otherwise you are content with the already fairly massive land area you've reclaimed. Build out the urban centers, turn those refugees into long-standing citizens, and reach a pinnacle of trade, culture, and erudition such as this benighted age has never before seen. You may rule only one city, but it will be the greatest city in all Creation, a city without peer. Odyssial would not accept less. Uncle Pan will not accept less (though he might have to deal)!

Liking this one because I prefer consolidation and preparation to agressive expansion. It's unlikely we'll get a 'mission accomplished' note, since that would be unseating us through official channels and the enemies of the satrapy are still surrounding us.
 
[X] The Shining Metropolis - Some merely conquer. You will rule. Luseng is rich enough that you truly do not need much territory to create something truly spectacular, and Uncle Pan is a City Father, not a Nation Father. Secure certain strategic objectives like Ausang Bu and the Emerald Mountain, but otherwise you are content with the already fairly massive land area you've reclaimed. Build out the urban centers, turn those refugees into long-standing citizens, and reach a pinnacle of trade, culture, and erudition such as this benighted age has never before seen. You may rule only one city, but it will be the greatest city in all Creation, a city without peer. Odyssial would not accept less. Uncle Pan will not accept less (though he might have to deal)!

Time to build the Peerless City!
 
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Look whatever we do, can we please pull a social focused ally to us guys? Because right now we are stuck dealing with everything by our self and while we might be able to handle it we really shouldn't have to. That's not how exalted is supposed to be played. Your supposed to form teams and those team mates are supposed to have specializations. Everyone is supposed to be able to rely on someone else to help them in their weaknesses. Going it alone is stupid in exalted. Gather allies please.

[X] The Shining Metropolis
-[X] Call in Nelel

I honestly don't care what wins here so long as we actually gather some allies to back us up in our one major glaring weakness. Social. At least one, please?
 
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Okay look of your going to include a vote count you could at least actually include all the votes.

I had a sub vote for a reason Van Ropen. So far literally no one has even commented on it even once. Some actual attention on this critical detail would be nice. Its like everyone ignoring the giant wooden horse as they walk through the gates of the city as it slowly creeps closer...:rolleyes:
 
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I had a sub vote for a reason Van Ropen. So far literally no one has even commented on it even once. Some actual attention on this critical detail would be nice. Its like everyone ignoring the giant wooden horse as they walk through the gates of the city...:rolleyes:
Yeah if you make a new vote in another post it wipes out the previous vote.

[X] The Shining Metropolis
-[X] Call in Nelel

I like this one - making it hard for Anys to usurp us. I guess it's better to develop infrastructure to gain military quicker later...
Yeah, calling allies seem like a good idea. When does Moon get here again?
 
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-[X] Call in Nelel


...
Okay look of your going to include a vote count you could at least actually include all the votes.

I had a sub vote for a reason Van Ropen. So far literally no one has even commented on it even once. Some actual attention on this critical detail would be nice. Its like everyone ignoring the giant wooden horse as they walk through the gates of the city as it slowly creeps closer...:rolleyes:

...
] The Seat of Empire
-[X] Call in Nelel

Okay what is most likely to be the most optimal choice available here would be to go military, call in our friendly neighborhood ebon dragon exalt. The idea here being we use her to leash the exalts to us, and basically everything else in the empire really to our chariot. New Celestial Exalts, our government, our people even. Basically we need to call in a social expert to tie everyone to us. Running an exalted game alone has so far been proven to be a really stupid choice for us. We keep on coming up against optimized builds that also have suitable back up at their level. We shouldn't be purposefully screwing over our chances like this by not having a social focused celestial level exalt on our side at this point. We already cover 2 out of the 3 main sections of skill by our lonesome by this point rather well. Now we need to actually power level our broad abilities so we can fight at a higher level of ability.

Once we have carved out a suitably large empire though I can see us redirecting efforts to basically build up defenses and set up proper city planning for more long term growth then just mongal hording this side of creation.

...
Guys whatever we do; take note of this: We aren't supposed to take on every freaking hurdle by our self. So whatever happens? We need to call in back up finally. Specifically back up in social. We already handily cover the other 2/3rds of the character sheet with how our character is built but no more. We now need to focus on improving in one area. Its not like we have a helmet that specializes in social evocations that we can rely on here. We need to actually have something we are good at. This lack of focus is really harming us here.
...
Part of why I am voting for seat of power is also because its a great way to search the local area to locate any stockpiles we may have left behind. We are supposed to be mongol hording with this option. Conquering, taking supplies and then moving on. Its a great way to search for Odyssial stockpiles. And again I emphasis we need our Ebon dragon friend here. Once we conquer a place we can get vows of loyalty for us. We make some predictions for how they should build up and have them follow it and then we move on and do it again in the next place. Having oaths of loyalty kept along with a social monster working to cement our control goes a long way to improving our odds of survival here. I want to call in more if we can especially moon but right now but I'm not sure we can get it. To bad we don't have anyone with sorcery as a friend right now... we could use the long distance traveling ability to set up multiple armies and go from one to another to speed up the process even further. Would probably have to have them all going in the same direction of course but fast travel could help a lot with the land acquisition.


Whatever. I'm off this one for the night. Read this people and vote for it. We could use the social muscle at this point. I for one don't want us to branch off yet again and become an even better generalist. You know what people call exalts who don't specialize in exalted? Dead! Don't care how much of a special snowflake you are your going to die if you don't specialize.
 
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-[X] Call in Nelel

Whatever. I'm off this one for the night. Read this people and vote for it. We could use the social muscle at this point. I for one don't want us to branch off yet again and become an even better generalist. You know what people call exalts who don't specialize in exalted? Dead! Don't care how much of a special snowflake you are your going to die if you don't specialize.
And do you know what your vote will look like now? The vote counter will only count the line I have underlined, because it is a piece of software that was designed to count only your vote in your latest post, in the pages designated by the one using the program. Also, after counting the votes on those designated pages it doesn't refresh its memory automatically as far as I know, needing manual clearing. So just editing your vote might leave your vote unchanged if the one doing the counting doesn't realize to do that. And in your case, it doesn't even matter, because you put this example here, making it the one the counter is going to count.

However, if you want to put up an example vote with X in the brackets without having it count, you can just put it up in quotes, like this:
Which of course includes all replies.

If you want to know more or use it yourself, here: http://forums.sufficientvelocity.com/threads/vote-tally-program.199/

EDIT: Changed "latest vote in your latest post" to "vote in your latest post" because it could have been somewhat misleading. The vote counter counts all the votes in your latest post.
 
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I choose seat because shining need our bureaucratic skill,I maybe choose shining if in characther creation we choose peerless city but now let focus on war.

What come will come,We need to fight in the battle that we do best. War and conquest.
 
Now, to the actual vote: I'm currently strongly favoring The Shining Metropolis. The prophecy-spamming is just too good to pass, as it means we can finally go on an offensive against Syn. And with the Nellens backing us up on the defensive side of things, it also is considerably safer as the last Elder Sidereal will have much harder time making anything stick against us. And with our latest Immaculate-slaying episode, having a political ally besides Zao willing to shield us might prove to be quite important, which will be somewhat harder to gain if we show signs of a massive military build-up.

The moral side of things shouldn't be forgotten either. Making the life of mortals not only more bearable to them, but straight out enjoyable will be worth it just by itself. Also, doesn't this seem like an action that might lessen Ulyssian's Limit? It gives properity and slightly more power to the hands of mortals, not only in Luseng but satrapies Realm-wide, so I could see it as a major effort towards one of his primary goals.

Then there is the loyalty. Having our city-god more firmly on our side is already quite useful, especially as he will grow most in power with this option, but it might also calm some of the worries that Maison and Scar have. If they see us not making any obvious moves against the Realm or preparation for those moves, they will likely be less conflicted about following us and keeping their mouths shut. And the mortals themself, while weak, make the bulk of all armies (at least for humans). The more we have them in our pockets, the more likely it is that they will stay there in case we get pointed out as an Anathema. Having them march on our side willingly would be quite the boon in that particular scenario, while at the same time making sure that they will be less likely start rebellions that could eat up our attention.

In short, I believe that the Metropolis will seem somewhat less threatening to the Realm, allow us more freedom to affect things on a larger scale and make people more loyal to us by being relatively nice to them.

[X] The Shining Metropolis
 
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[X] The Shining Metropolis

The Seat of the empire seems like we do what is expected of us, in the mind of Anys Syn. We really aren't going to ditch our roll in the realm at this point so we might as well start settling in. The additional Celestial exalt recruitment seems counterbalanced by the fact we are nominally royal to the Realm and the various enemy Celestials we create.

The Polis of legend is far more attractive to me. It lacks the utility options Metropolis has but it allows us to create a militarized city state that could become our fortress against our enemies. Unfortunately this option lacks flexibility and Realm wide influence. Furthermore we still have the issue of terrestrial exalted. Especially considering we took none of the options that would affect Anys Syn negatively and none of our social focused allies are here.

It would be nice if some of our associates from the academy could come over in the intervening months. Also an interlude by someone on the Realm side of things would be interesting. In fact what is our IC information on the current state of the Realm?
 
Whoa, Metropolis that far ahead? Interesting, you guys don't want to go to war and make use of Uly's immense talents in that area...
 
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