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[Exalted, ?] Most High

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Alectai said:
That was not stated at all, we could have quite easily managed to hit Greatness 10 with the XP we generated and never hit Heartlessness 10.

We hit Heartlessness 10 because Odyssial was prone to taking very, very efficient steps to getting what he wanted, which often paved over the interests of others. He could spend more time on megaprojects because he spent time crushing anyone who would get in his way.
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NPC don't get EXP. NPC would gain or loose Heartlessness by their deeds and what influences them.
 
Rihaku said:
For those voting for telling her that you're Anathema, do you prefer that over giving her the sword?

For those of you voting for telling her you're a DB, do you prefer that over not giving her the sword?
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I mean, if picking between those two I feel that telling her the entire truth is important, and that giving her the sword is secondary to that - it was originally a means to persuade Zao that there were ways to improve Moon's safety. It has since morphed into its own thing though, an argument over whether wielding it personally or giving it to her is a more efficient/broadly applicable usage of its power.

I'm kinda wondering if they can't be separated. What are our chances of persuading Zao without it?
 
Pipeman said:
Out of 58 voters 12 have explicitly voted to give her Ambition (plus 1 as a last resort if other negotiation tactics fail) and 10 have explicitly voted not to give her Ambition.

The impression I'm getting is that of most of the people explicitly voting to give her Ambition are hoping to tell her we're Anathema since they mostly added it to a simple Persuasion, which makes it seem like it's a bargaining chip against Zao's arguments.
About half of the votes explicitly mentioning not to give her Ambition are attached to Braincaster's "I just exalted as a Fire Caste" thing.

The absolute majority of voters didn't feel the need to make a explicit vote for Ambition either way, though whether this is because they don't want to antivote when it wasn't asked for, whether they feel ambivalent towards the whole thing or think they've made their position clear with arguments, I can't say.
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Good to know, thanks. I do want to clarify which is more important to you guys, though, the truth or the sword.
 
Seriously people do not give Moon ambition. There is a reason Rihaku said Zao getting the sword isn't unambiguously good and that having it would've made Ivory unhappy. Moon will give her all into that sword to be just like Ulyssian and end up as Odyissial 2.0. Remember Ambition was completed in the late first age after Ody met Fairest so he likely had H10 by then. So that's probably the Odyissial it takes the most after.

H8 Ody had LYTEK begging us to give him a light punishment when jerecoginzed us. Not no punishment a light punishment. He didn't even consider asking not to be punished.

G10H10 Ody was the feared by litterally EVERYONE and apparently fought against the Usurpation forces so hard that the INCARANE HAD TO COME DOWN TO FULFILL THEIR MANDATE OF PROTECT CREATION!

Shit got THAT bad.

Do you really want to see Moon end up like that?

Truth. Like hell I'm risking moon going H10 on us.
 
Van Ropen said:
I mean, if picking between those two I feel that telling her the entire truth is important, and that giving her the sword is secondary to that - it was originally a means to persuade Zao that there were ways to improve Moon's safety. It has since morphed into its own thing though, an argument over whether wielding it personally or giving it to her is a more efficient/broadly applicable usage of its power.

I'm kinda wondering if they can't be separated. What are our chances of persuading Zao without it?
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Not terrible, really. You've got a lot of stunts.
 
... Heartlessness was chiefly a matter of Odyssial suffering from the Great Curse really, really hard. Dragon Blooded explicitly have it in a Very weak form--to the point where it's functionally a non-issue by dint of being Really fucking hard to trigger

The way I see it though, the options are kind of exclusive. Giving her Ambition while giving her a lie is going to raise questions. Telling her the truth and not giving her the sword risks her being too weak to protect it.
 
Diller said:
Seriously people do not give Moon ambition. There is a reason Rihaku said Zao getting the sword isn't unambiguously good and that having it would've made Ivory unhappy. Moon will give her all into that sword to be just like Ulyssian and end up as Odyissial 2.0. Remember Ambition was completed in the late first age after Ody met Fairest so he likely had H10 by then. So that's probably the Odyissial it takes the most after.
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Zao is a thousand years old. He is the cynic to end all cynics. His cynicism is the event horizon into which all lesser pessimism is inevitably drawn. The sword doesn't make him 'evil', it enables him to do what he already wants to do. That Zao wielding the sword is undesirable from certain perspectives is an indictment of Zao himself, not the weapon.

Moon is young, brilliant, idealistic, and immensely capable. To claim she will suddenly develop into a monster is fearmongering of the lowest order.
 
Rihaku said:
Good to know, thanks. I do want to clarify which is more important to you guys, though, the truth or the sword.
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This might help to get people to answer this question more (and maybe further muddle the vote tally. Sorry)

[ ] Tell the Truth
OR
[ ] Give the Sword

For me at least, it is:
[] Tell the Truth

EDIT: IGNORE THIS! ACCURATE VOTE OPTIONS ON THE NEXT PAGE!
 
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Alectai said:
... Heartlessness was chiefly a matter of Odyssial suffering from the Great Curse really, really hard. Dragon Blooded explicitly have it in a Very weak form--to the point where it's functionally a non-issue by dint of being Really fucking hard to trigger

The way I see it though, the options are kind of exclusive. Giving her Ambition while giving her a lie is going to raise questions. Telling her the truth and not giving her the sword risks her being too weak to protect it.
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...It's a N/A Artifact created by Odyssial in the first age.

I doubt it can't make the trigger happen.
 
Of course, I understand if you don't fall into one of those categories as well, the two decisions in this vote by no means have to be intertwined.
 
I haven't voted for or against giving her Ambition, because it depends on just how close to us we're keeping her and what secrets we reveal. If we're trusting her with everything, then giving her Ambition might make sense (if it doesn't turn her into a horrifying mix of Ody and Moon). If not, there's no point.
 
Usernames said:
...It's a N/A Artifact created by Odyssial in the first age.

I doubt it can't make the trigger happen.
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Bullshit, Ambition is not sapient, and it's not going to override our will because lolgrimdark great curse misery.

It's a perfect weapon, it's not going to do something we wouldn't want it to do just because it was finished in the end of the Second Age. The foundations were laid while Odyssial was still relatively young and idealistic. And by word of Rihaku, we have the same will and mindset that Odyssial possessed--it's not going to decide that "The only way for her to help her survive and thrive is by breaking everything that master likes about her!"

That's straight up Asshole Genie territory, and Odyssial would not consider a weapon to be perfect if it wouldn't accomodate the will and spirit of the master.
 
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Rihaku said:
Good to know, thanks. I do want to clarify which is more important to you guys, though, the truth or the sword.
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Personally, I'm still voting to just ignore Zao and getting that XP.
I mean, I wouldn't mind Persuading him successfully, but I think the whole Truth vs Sword dichtonomy is a bit overblown because noone is even considering that failing to succeed doesn't have to lead to being cowed by Zao.
 
meianmaru said:
This might help to get people to answer this question more (and maybe further muddle the vote tally. Sorry)

[ ] Tell the Truth
OR
[ ] Give the Sword

For me at least, it is:
[X] Tell the Truth
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It's deifinitely not doing anything to make things clearer because the question is whether we're willing to give her the sword in order to be allowed to tell her the truth.
 
Van Ropen said:
Hmm. Then it might be better to make the decision regarding the sword later. I mean, why are they being pitted against each other? Why would we give her the sword and not tell her the truth?
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I have no idea, man. I'd just prefer to clear this hurdle now. Hard enough to rustle up support for the Winter Empress when the decision point is relevant.
 
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