Esquestria: The House of the Sun - A pony cultist experience

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Dear reader! Whether you are new here, archive-reading and whatnot, or you are already someone who has been with us for quite a while, I would like to say a few words that I believe are best kept close to mind.

-This is an MLP quest. And more importantly, none of us are gratuitously cruel. So good things will happen on this quest, and I hope that enough good things have already happened to prove that.
-This is also a horror quest, so bad things will happen. Bad things might happen to good characters if you are not able to protect them, and you most certainly will not be able to intervene if you lack the tools to do so.
-And finally, this is a quest in which you jostle with powers greater than yourself, with all that it entails.

Please, do keep those things in mind as you go forward. But ultimately, this is also a quest in which it is hoped we all have fun! So if any of the above points is not exactly your cup of tea, or somehow make the experience as a whole "not worth it", then this quest might not be for you. Which is fine! Individual tastes are a thing, so don't think any more about it if you don't want to read anymore. And regardless, I hope you have a lovely day!

PSA for whoever needs to hear it:

Readers should take their own mental health into consideration when voting and not subject themselves to triggering narrative elements like rape or constant mental torture of a friend just for the Greatest Good of a world that doesn't exist.

If those are fine for you or Regrettable is even more triggering, then GREAT! More power to you. But you aren't a bad or selfish person for picking the option that keeps the characters you've emotionally connected with safe. [REDACTED for spoiler warning]

This is a high intensity quest that doesn't hold back when it comes to horror and negative consequences. Take care of yourself.
(Quote slightly edited to avoid spoilers)
 
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We can't have Rarity do more to disassociate us from the cult without raising her Grail, and the Windy Flakes social option beat that last time so we'd have to spend an action on raising her Grail, then her action on disassociation.
Technically I think while it's not strictly necessary to raise her Grail, she'll get a lot more done if we do. But also she's Grail, and that's really, really useful, to say the least. So I think we should level her up anyway.

Also it'd probably help with her work rolls, so we wouldn't have to be as worried over asking Rarity to do something vs. letting her focus entirely on her work.
 
This is never going to happen.
You keep saying that, but here we are already discussing how to remove Windy, rather than whether we should or not. Like, you're legitimately gimping yourself, by this point.
Velvet Cover's herself talking to all the cultist's to insist that she's not really apart of the cult would be funny, but ineffective.
It's a shame the shapeshifting Sacrament costs so much…
 
danger to us. Velvet Covers. The players who lose their game if they get arrested. But everyone else in the Cult? Starry already got busted out once. The Master is an eldritch abomination nothing short of Celestia herself can threaten, and a master of subterfuge. The Cult itself is a large and informally organized collection that can't really be hunted down even if it's everything gets realized, and purged dozens of Changelings without being caught. There is basically nothing Dull Glass can do to actually damage them in any meaningful way. And if he does, then he dies just as we would.
Them being known would be a pretty big blow at the moment. Though though master is confident they could shrug even thst off now.

You underestimate the effect that the gov actively being able to grapple with and work against them would have.

Not framing, literally catching him in the act if he starts doing Wolf things. Like, you know, murder.
This is wrong. Windy Flakes of all ponies in the inner circle would be the best at covering up his crimes.

To say nothing of hoping he does have to go commit serial murder or something equally horrific.

We didn't.

And I think this is the problem. You refuse to acknowledge the difference between what has to be done, and what can. It doesn't matter that the whole world dies because you didn't cut the red wire, if you don't have any scissors. As for the second part, the difference is that Velvet wouldn't be making it neat and official that she's the one responsible. DG would. Can't go loud if there's no target to go loud against.
I think it matters a lot. You dont. Well find out in a couple of turns. Agree to disagree.

We lose the game because Velvet descends into a depressive spiral, and those social consequences are personally pressing all of her traumas. Windy and Copper we have no dea about.
I think they would actually be impacted by. Being arrested. Probably not as bad as we are.

Also that isnt why wed lose if we were arrested. Wed lose because thays how the game ended in Cultist Simulator. Also Alocorns. Also our family.

Maybe you consider compounding insanity to be part of those? Idk, doesnt really matter.

Mortal pony against eldritch monstrosity and an army of magical cultists. They kind of are worthless.

But hey, if you're really willing to be responsible for sending the guy to his probable death, then sure. Let him take swing and see where it gets us.
Agree to disagree on everyone in the world who isnt an occultist being worthless.

Alright cool. Glad you approve :V

That being said I think we are starting to run into brick walls here...
 
We can't have Rarity do more to disassociate us from the cult without raising her Grail, and the Windy Flakes social option beat that last time so we'd have to spend an action on raising her Grail, then her action on disassociation.
The issue was her work suffering this turn.

We needed to improve her grail last turn.

Which we didnt.

If she works again this turn she will suceed, more grail or not.

talking to all the cultist's to insist that she's not really apart of the cult would be funny, but ineffective.
Weve used disguises and dead drops to communicate with the cult before. If bird explains why we cant do it I'll buy it.

You keep saying that, but here we are already discussing how to remove Windy, rather than whether we should or not. Like, you're legitimately gimping yourself, by this point.
Counterpoint.

Look how much effort it took to get you guys to seriously consider removing Windy Flakes. The token evil teammate.

Actually doing things to remove the whole rest of the inner council? It would take years. And probably be a massive waste anyway. Windy and sort of Copper are more immediate dangers to us.

Edit:
@BirdBodhisattva any chance we can cash out that favor with Starry before we leave the cult?

She might have disappeared into the woods or something.
 
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Communicating with Comet feet, communicating with the hint chasers, communicating the instructions for Windigo summoning.
I'm... pretty sure we've always talked to Comet face to face? And we seem to talk to the Hintchasers via the Woods rather than a disguise or a dead drop, and they just don't remember us because their Mansus-fu isn't up to snuff.
 
I'm... pretty sure we've always talked to Comet face to face? And we seem to talk to the Hintchasers via the Woods rather than a disguise or a dead drop, and they just don't remember us because their Mansus-fu isn't up to snuff.
Yeah, maybe I'm wrong. Starting to get a bit of a headache honestly. Probably time to take a break.
 
Them being known would be a pretty big blow at the moment. Though though master is confident they could shrug even thst off now.

You underestimate the effect that the gov actively being able to grapple with and work against them would have.
No, I just doubt DG could actually get far enough to drag the whole government into it. If he goes from zero to one hundred and blows the whole thing open at once, sure. But I really doubt he can get that close before someone notices and shuts him down.
This is wrong. Windy Flakes of all ponies in the inner circle would be the best at covering up his crimes.

To say nothing of hoping he does have to go commit serial murder or something equally horrific.

We didn't.
…Did you forget about the part where I suggested having a Lantern 5 summon watching his every move and reporting the crime? Or interrupting it as it's in progress?

And honestly, I don't really think there's going to be many options in an unfamiliar town to do Wolf stuff that isn't murder.
I think they would actually be impacted by. Being arrested. Probably not as bad as we are.

Also that isnt why wed lose if we were arrested. Wed lose because thays how the game ended in Cultist Simulator. Also Alocorns. Also our family.

Maybe you consider compounding insanity to be part of those? Idk, doesnt really matter.
No, I' just literally repeating what the QM said about what happens if we get a lose condition. We head into a downward spiral that ends badly.
Agree to disagree on everyone in the world who isnt an occultist being worthless.
I mean, if you really think there's a whole lot of people who could survive murder rituals, insanity rituals, an Eldritch abomination breaking into their home at night and killing them in their sleep, a sizeable urban population doing the same, and it really necessary the manifestations of hatred and violence…
Counterpoint.

Look how much effort it took to get you guys to consider removing Windy Flakes. The token evil teammate.

Actually doing things to remove the whole rest of the inner council? It would take years. And probably be a massive waste anyway. Windy and sort of Copper are more immediate dangers to us.
…You do realize I said the non-confidante Councillors, right? That basically is Copper and Windy after next turn. Assuming we can get Comet to turn, or at least walk away. I'm really not sure Starry counts any more.
 
…You do realize I said the non-confidante Councillors, right? That basically is Copper and Windy after next turn. Assuming we can get Comet to turn, or at least walk away. I'm really not sure Starry counts any more.
Yeah my bad. Honestly not just mentioning those two is what threw me off. I was like "I know starry could be a problem but do we really need to deal with her now?"

So my misunderstanding.
 
Yeah my bad. Honestly not just mentioning those two is what threw me off. I was like "I know starry could be a problem but do we really need to deal with her now?"

So my misunderstanding.
Eh, I'm still just kind of used to thinking of them in the divide between basically "our side" and "not our side". And also weighing Velvet against the whole list for her Lore power.

But yeah. Four or five is a big number. Two or three, not so much. Especially when those two were just given ample reason to be taken out.
 
Huh. So, thought, but looking at the different orders, not individually but rather as a whole… something feels off.

Comet Feet, whatever the specifics end up being, was basically just pointed at the rest of the Cult like a loaded gun. There's only so many ways "cut off the weaknesses from our Cult" can be taken after all, and with Edge that list grows ever shorter. Windy was manipulated into asking permission to go to another town alone in a personal search for enlightenment. Copper was given leave to rule her own little fiefdom in another town, specifically usurping even the Master's name in that. Starry is off on her own little path. Jade is given a distasteful order after a long time doing basically jack all. And Velvet…

Velvet, the over-achiever. Velvet, the highest in the Mansus, the greatest of their servants, who has just found a path to victory and shook the House with her wroth, who has dragged the Cult along at every step… was told to get behind a desk. Velvet, who has her hooves in a dozen pies, a thousand spinning plates on a good day, and definitive ambition to climb for Glory… was told to start burning half her turns on improvement for everybody else.

Look at this:
Share them with the Cult, little Velvet. Share them, so that we may grow in numbers and power. Thus, my order to you is that you shall dedicate yourself to teaching the Cult. I do not need you to scale the Mansus, not on my orders. Instead, reduce your knowledge to writing, so that every Cult cell we create shall have the tools needed to thrive, and every pony under us shall have a path to fulfill their potential," she says.
Perhaps it is just me, perhaps I am just imagining it, but that reads a whole lot like telling us to make a whole bunch of rivals in our climb. To stop doing the one thing every occultist must do, literally the only remnants of the final goals we've been after from the very beginning left, and raise others up to our level.

The Master isn't dumb. Even if they didn't know for certain that Velvet was wavering or in fact broken, that we planned to leave, this is a punishment. Oh, it's dressed up fancy, but they know more than anybody how the Mansus works and occultists think. Calling us off the climb here and now would be agony to them. But what has Velvet done, to deserve such punishment? What could it be hoped to accomplished, tugging on our leash when we're so close? To keep Velvet from doing what she does best and getting shit done?

Easy. Nothing. I honestly suspect that the Master doesn't actually expect us to listen. Because all together? Those orders look like they're meant to create tension. Rewarding Copper and punishing Velvet? Pointing Comet at his own Allies? Pressing all of Jade's buttons, and sending the last two to seek new horizons?

I suspect that this is the Master's attempt to make us rebel. To push us, further and faster. To tip us over the edge.
 
So I think there are several ways in which we can deal with master orders next turn

  • Forge way. We concentrate on reaching forge 4 for our self to use ritual on Twilight and forge 3 for the cult to follow master orders. Then during Twilight rescue we skip on talking with her by knocking her out before she has a chance to identify us. Deliver her home, restore her horn and tell Shining Armor that we found her at the outskirts of Ponnyville. Leave grinding Grail and convincing others of our version of events for the next turn when we visit Canterlot. Have Jade summon Mares as replacements for Windigo.
  • Grail way. Grind Grail as we planned. Take a risk and go to Ruined Church. I think it is correct to assume that order to summon Windigo comes from us not telling Master about Mares. But in the same vein there is not zero probability that order to write manifests comes as result of Velvet telling Master about Church . Master basically told us to stop climbing Mansus and concentrate on Velvet other tasks perhaps due to him not believing that we are prepared to pass it. If we go against his order he would not be happy but at least once we can spin it as our desire to continue climbing Mansus.
  • Moth way. Tell Jade to betray cult. Maybe order her to burn/steal manuscripts from the Bright Library on her way out. Ask her to leave a goodbye note where she tells of her knowledge of how Windigos where used and how she refuse to summon more of them. Perhaps send DoA along with her so she is not alone/protected. If we all go to Manehatten they can simply stay there for a time. Blame us not completing manuscripts work on Jade actions. Optionally take action to ask Master for a gift. Beg him not to issue kill order on Jade. Tell him that you send DoA to take back Jade alive. Then ask him for a way to remove memories as a way to have Jade join cult again. If she learned too much we just need to help her forget, right? Then if we acquire such spell/artifact we can use it as failsafe for both Twilight (if others methods don't work) and for Jade (if we decide to return Jade to cult, we will remove her memories about betrayal, so we don't need to rely on her acting).
 
Seems to me if we want to kill Windy Flakes we kill two birds with one stone - have a Windigo that Jade summons unleashed on Windy. It won't be subtle, but I'm sure we can at least come up with some reasoning for what 'went wrong'
 
Technically I think while it's not strictly necessary to raise her Grail, she'll get a lot more done if we do. But also she's Grail, and that's really, really useful, to say the least. So I think we should level her up anyway.

Also it'd probably help with her work rolls, so we wouldn't have to be as worried over asking Rarity to do something vs. letting her focus entirely on her work.

Re-reading the post (Turn 14 Part 10) Rarity says that she wasn't able to get her foot in the door for dissuading people from thinking that Velvet's the Lore Master, but that she wants to double down on it next month, which could hurt her career.


Rarity has successfully distanced "Velvet Covers, local noblemare" from "the cult's Loremaster". She thinks more can be done, or that she could have done more. But she also thinks that, given her skills and time constraints, she did a very good job. She was not, however, able to even begin smothering the belief that you are (or rather, that the only noblemare in town is) a cult member.

Although, for all that Rarity believes she can "double down" on it next month, you also realize she might be neglecting her own career if she dedicates herself to that next month.
 
My opinion: Rarity focuses on her career. Jade focuses on herself or on stealing the stuff in our handwriting. We blow the cult off entirely. If we were still loyal this would be time consuming but not onerous. But we have too much shit to do this next turn to waste on writing manifests.
 
My opinion: Rarity focuses on her career. Jade focuses on herself or on stealing the stuff in our handwriting. We blow the cult off entirely. If we were still loyal this would be time consuming but not onerous. But we have too much shit to do this next turn to waste on writing manifests.
I am fine with that as long as we ourselves do not fully commit toward dropping cult next turn. Have Jade steal/burn library, then during next cult meeting claim that we were unable to fulfill our obligations due to Jade betrayal and ask for personal task of catching her as our responsibility.
 
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Velvet Covers is a good and kind mare. But she is also adopting the mentality of "has to be me, somepony else might get it wrong".
the sad thing is she's right.

She's the ones who knows the MOST about these kind of things, so by definition she's the only one with a "decent" understanding of all the problems and threats.

Well, the only one with an interest in keeping Equestria in one piece. The only one who knows more than us is the Master (and the Names we summon, I suppose, but they hardly count).

Our past choices poisoned the well with the crown. If we had gone to Celestia with Selene in tow, MAYBE we could have tried with a more honest approach.

MAYBE, if Celestia had reacted better to the Crysalis reveal, it might also have been an option. Risky, but at least possible.

Right now we sadly have no choice, because not only Velvet and family might die if we reveal the wrong thing to the wrong people... but if Velvet dies, there's no telling what the cult will do in the long term.

-[] You are planning to leave the cult, and cults are usually not friendly to that idea. But safety in numbers is a thing. Spread dissent within the cult. Try to get more ponies to leave, when things really get rough, and scout the terrain for cultists that might be interested in following somepony else. (Less effective the less you know about what happened in the expedition, especially with how you managed to calm the cult and the town down).
...you know, with our future position as head of the lunar bureau, it would be nice to also have a secret cult on the side. We can even scout crown agents this way.

Risky and hard to do, but... well, we KNOW about Windigos and what happened on the expedition. We COULD probably convert a decent number of ponies to our side if we truly wanted to.

We'll see what Fleeting moment actions we'll have. It might be too late, but we COULD still try and recruit the hintchasers for example.

mh... if we're still going for grail influence, we could organize a meeting in person with the hintchasers through our current method of "wood hints", and the try to convince them to defect with a mix of good arguments and sheer force of Grail.

We should get Comet, we have Jade, we can potentially get the Hintchasers this way... maybe we could try to convince Jade's cadre too.

Something to consider for next turn. And then, through these two groups, we could spread more doubts and dissent before we actually leave.

The Master isn't dumb. Even if they didn't know for certain that Velvet was wavering or in fact broken, that we planned to leave, this is a punishment. Oh, it's dressed up fancy, but they know more than anybody how the Mansus works and occultists think. Calling us off the climb here and now would be agony to them. But what has Velvet done, to deserve such punishment? What could it be hoped to accomplished, tugging on our leash when we're so close? To keep Velvet from doing what she does best and getting shit done?

Easy. Nothing. I honestly suspect that the Master doesn't actually expect us to listen. Because all together? Those orders look like they're meant to create tension. Rewarding Copper and punishing Velvet? Pointing Comet at his own Allies? Pressing all of Jade's buttons, and sending the last two to seek new horizons?

I suspect that this is the Master's attempt to make us rebel. To push us, further and faster. To tip us over the edge.
Possibly. He gave orders that might lead each councilor to establish their own separate faction with their own separate goals.

Goals that, in and of themselves, would likely not be against his ultimate objectives.

still, it's also possible that he expects Velvet to burn half of her time on those manuscripts, and then use the remaining half on the mansus climb.

She didn't say "do not climb". She said "Do not climb on my orders".

And that makes sense, because any conventional cultist would want to climb no matter what, so why order them to? Order them to do something else, and they'll climb in their own free time!

What, family? friends? A job? Why would those matter?

  • Moth way. Tell Jade to betray cult. Maybe order her to burn/steal manuscripts from the Bright Library on her way out. Ask her to leave a goodbye note where she tells of her knowledge of how Windigos where used and how she refuse to summon more of them. Perhaps send DoA along with her so she is not alone/protected. If we all go to Manehatten they can simply stay there for a time. Blame us not completing manuscripts work on Jade actions. Optionally take action to ask Master for a gift. Beg him not to issue kill order on Jade. Tell him that you send DoA to take back Jade alive. Then ask him for a way to remove memories as a way to have Jade join cult again. If she learned too much we just need to help her forget, right? Then if we acquire such spell/artifact we can use it as failsafe for both Twilight (if others methods don't work) and for Jade (if we decide to return Jade to cult, we will remove her memories about betrayal, so we don't need to rely on her acting).

I am fine with that as long as we ourselves do not fully commit toward dropping cult next turn. Have Jade steal/burn library, then during next cult meeting claim that we were unable to fulfill our obligations due to Jade betrayal and ask for personal task of catching her as our responsibility.

Absolutely not! We explicitly avoided ever lying in the Master's presence, at most omitting details. This is too close to lying for comfort!
 
Absolutely not! We explicitly avoided ever lying in the Master's presence, at most omitting details. This is too close to lying for comfort!
I do not consider it a direct lie. In such scenario Jade would betray cult and we would be the ones who would honestly want to take over the search for her. And us not making necessary manuscript is entirely due to Jade betrayal of the cult. If she did not betray cult we would not have excuse not to write it so it fits.
 
My hot take is that our orders are an opportunity. Think about it. A cult that is growing rapidly enough that its leaders can be their own princes in their domains is also one that the Master has far less central control over. If we were to carve out our own fiefdom, who's to say that we could have that part of the cult join with us when we break free? Besides, writing all that Lore material could also come in handy later down the road, as it could allow us to empower any new allies with the Lores. I say we go all-in. The Master may have just sold us the rope by which we will hang her.
 
My hot take is that our orders are an opportunity. Think about it. A cult that is growing rapidly enough that its leaders can be their own princes in their domains is also one that the Master has far less central control over. If we were to carve out our own fiefdom, who's to say that we could have that part of the cult join with us when we break free? Besides, writing all that Lore material could also come in handy later down the road, as it could allow us to empower any new allies with the Lores. I say we go all-in. The Master may have just sold us the rope by which we will hang her.

not an option.

1)the Master is going to share the manifests with all cult cells, so we'd be strenghtening all our enemies.

2)We're not getting our own fiefdom. Copper is, Windy probably is too, but not us. We're being put behind a desk. If the master thinks we're loyal she probably expects us to dedicate our free time to the climb, so we wouldn't even need a fiefdom, really. And the masters seems to wish to reestablish the old tradition of "all cultists aim for the top, and damn everyone else".

3)we already committed to actions that will be VERY hard to justify if we stay. Twilight, Shining armor's arrival, the lunar bureau, our coming talk with Comet, possible measures taken to... neutralize Windy and maybe Copper...
 
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