Echoes of Creation (30k/Exalted)
- Thread starter Yzarc
- Start date
- Crossover
Thinking some more, if we can and did give Lorgar the ability to shapechange, perhaps into any human, I wonder how that might affect his Mythos. I can see it fitting somewhere as one of his Human aspects.
I'd really like to get him a Martial Artist or Sifu (Martial Arts teacher) aspect, but I'm not sure how to go about that as there's currently no one else in the tribe who's enlightened.
We might be able to change that by using CCP to shape some people into existence. The charms allows the creation of useful Essence 1 servants. As we can explicitly create spirits and demons with the charm, perhaps we could also directly create enlightened mortals. Lorgar can then teach them Mind Shielding and work with them to try to develop a Terrestrial Martial Art.
The main use would be to quickly grant Lorgar a mythos power if he needed it right now. In future we could grant people martial arts charms once we develop some Terrestrial Martial Arts and have some Enlightened Mortals to teach them to. It could also be very valuable if we get any akuma, to grant them relevant charms.
We may not approve of stripping people of free will, but I can see it being acceptable to use on Covenant Priests to forcibly wrest their souls from the Chaos Gods.
In the longer run, once we get an Inner World, something like Gifts of Greater Glory would be a natural way we could grant people Werewolf style Gifts.
Potential random side thought, how real are Lorgar's spirit guides? Are they real enough for us to offer to enlighten their essence in return for guiding Lorgar on his Vision Quest. Only the Loyalist Primarch, not the daemon one. An Enlightened guide may be able to do a better job, even if that's all and they only exist for the duration of the vision quest.
I'd really like to get him a Martial Artist or Sifu (Martial Arts teacher) aspect, but I'm not sure how to go about that as there's currently no one else in the tribe who's enlightened.
We might be able to change that by using CCP to shape some people into existence. The charms allows the creation of useful Essence 1 servants. As we can explicitly create spirits and demons with the charm, perhaps we could also directly create enlightened mortals. Lorgar can then teach them Mind Shielding and work with them to try to develop a Terrestrial Martial Art.
The main use would be to quickly grant Lorgar a mythos power if he needed it right now. In future we could grant people martial arts charms once we develop some Terrestrial Martial Arts and have some Enlightened Mortals to teach them to. It could also be very valuable if we get any akuma, to grant them relevant charms.
We may not approve of stripping people of free will, but I can see it being acceptable to use on Covenant Priests to forcibly wrest their souls from the Chaos Gods.
In the longer run, once we get an Inner World, something like Gifts of Greater Glory would be a natural way we could grant people Werewolf style Gifts.
Potential random side thought, how real are Lorgar's spirit guides? Are they real enough for us to offer to enlighten their essence in return for guiding Lorgar on his Vision Quest. Only the Loyalist Primarch, not the daemon one. An Enlightened guide may be able to do a better job, even if that's all and they only exist for the duration of the vision quest.
Last edited:
[X] Corax, the Shadow
Turn 4: An unhappy reunion
Yzarc
The Spark of Madness
Colchis - 831.M30
As Lorgar chose, a figure cloaked in shadows, with eyes that gleamed like the purest obsidian, appeared before them. It was Corax, the Primarch of the Raven Guard, a warrior of stealth and speed. The air around him seemed to shimmer, shadows bending to his will.
"You have chosen an interesting companion, my past self," Daemon Primarch Lorgar remarked, his gaze fixed on the newcomer. "Corax, it has been a while, brother."
Corax stepped forward, his presence commanding yet almost ethereal, as if he were a shadow given form. "Indeed, brother," he replied, his voice smooth and cold. "It seems you have escaped my talons… for now."
Daemon Primarch Lorgar's eyes narrowed, a hint of anger flashing within. "It is a matter of perspective, Corax. You always clung to the shadows, hiding from the truth of the universe. I have embraced it."
Corax's voice grew colder, his words cutting like a blade. "True power does not come from submitting to the whims of malevolent gods. It comes from within, from our choices and our will. You have abandoned your people, your purpose, for a lie."
The Daemon Primarch's face twisted with a mix of anger and pity. "You are blind, Corax. Blind to the possibilities that Chaos offers. The Emperor's vision is flawed, limited. He seeks to control, to impose order where there should be none."
Corax stepped closer, his presence a stark contrast to the oppressive aura of the Daemon Primarch. "The Emperor's vision is one of unity and progress. It is flawed, yes, but it is driven by a desire to protect humanity. Chaos seeks only to consume and destroy."
"You cannot protect humanity from itself," Daemon Primarch Lorgar retorted, his voice growing harsher. "Chaos is the natural state of the universe, the true path to enlightenment. You understand nothing."
Corax's eyes gleamed with defiance, his voice steady and resolute. "I understand more than you think. I understand that true strength comes from within, something you would not know. After all, I sent you running not once but twice, and now I have tracked you down to this place. Had it not been for the rules of the summoning, I would have struck you down."
A growl rumbled deep within the Daemon Primarch's chest, the air around him crackling with barely contained fury. "You dare speak of strength, Corax? You, who hides in the shadows and strikes from the darkness? You know nothing of true power."
Corax's eyes narrowed, his voice cutting like a blade. "True power? You think you understand it because you've surrendered to the whispers of the Warp? True power is not the ability to dominate or destroy; it is the strength to stand firm in your convictions and to face your darkness without succumbing to it."
"You are naive," Lorgar spat, his form flickering with chaotic energy. "You speak of protection, yet the Imperium is a prison, a cage for humanity's potential. Chaos is freedom. It is the essence of all possibility, the infinite paths that lie beyond the Emperor's false promises."
Corax's gaze hardened, a mixture of anger and sorrow flickering in his eyes. "The Imperium is flawed, I know this. But it is a flawed beacon of stability amidst the darkness. It seeks to unify, to bring order where there is chaos. Your path leads only to destruction."
Lorgar laughed, a harsh, mocking sound. "Stability? Is that what you call what the Imperium provides? Stability? The Imperium is no better than those that you claim to oppose."
Corax's voice trembled with restrained fury. "I regret those decisions every day, but we can only take decisions we believed were right at that time. The Emperor's vision offered a future, a chance for humanity to thrive. Chaos offers nothing but annihilation."
"Annihilation?" Lorgar's eyes blazed with dark fire. "Chaos is rebirth, transformation. It is the power to reshape the universe, to break free from the chains of false order. You fear it because you do not understand it."
"I understand it all too well," Corax countered, his voice steely. "Chaos consumes, corrupts, and destroys. It takes what is good and twists it into something monstrous. I will never embrace it, and I will fight it with every breath I have."
Lorgar's expression softened, a flicker of genuine sorrow passing over his features. "You are lost, brother. Bound by the Emperor's lies, you cannot see the truth. Chaos is the ultimate freedom, the path to true enlightenment. One day, you will understand that Chaos is the only truth."
Corax took a step forward, his presence a stark contrast to the oppressive aura of the Daemon Primarch. "Freedom? Is that what you call the anarchy and madness that Chaos brings? You offer nothing but chains of a different kind. The gods of the Warp do not seek to free humanity; they seek to enslave it, to bend it to their will and feast on its suffering."
Lorgar's eyes blazed with a dark light, his voice a thunderous roar. "You are blind! The Emperor's vision is flawed, limited by his arrogance. He seeks to impose his order on a universe that thrives on chaos. He fears the power that lies beyond his control."
Corax's face hardened, his gaze unwavering. "And what of the Dark Gods? You have allowed yourself to be twisted, your soul tainted by the very forces you claim to master. You speak of enlightenment, but you are nothing more than a puppet, dancing to the tune of the Dark Gods."
Lorgar's form shimmered with malevolent energy, his voice filled with venom. "And you, Corax, what are you? A shadow, a ghost clinging to the past. You hide from the truth, from the power that lies within Chaos. You are afraid to embrace your true potential."
Corax's voice was a cold whisper, laced with contempt. "You speak of fear, but it is you who is afraid. Afraid to face the consequences of your actions, to admit that you were wrong. Chaos has consumed you, Lorgar. It has turned you into a monster."
The Daemon Primarch's face twisted in rage, his form expanding with dark energy. "You dare judge me? You, who abandoned the Imperium, who fled into the shadows when the galaxy needed you most? You are a coward, Corax, hiding behind your noble ideals."
Corax's eyes burned with a fierce light, his voice rising with righteous fury. "And what of you Lorgar? You set us all on a path of ruin, of despair. I have seen the devastation your actions brought, the lives shattered, the worlds consumed. You speak of the galaxy needing me, but it is you who ruined it. You were the one who first betrayed everything we once stood for."
Lorgar's laughter echoed through the chamber, a sound devoid of joy. "Betrayal? I have seen the lies of the Imperium, the hypocrisy of the Emperor. He claims to protect humanity, but he seeks only to control it."
Corax's voice was like steel, unyielding. "Is that what you tell yourself? I have fought in the darkness, seen the worst of humanity, and still I believe in its potential for greatness. As did the Emperor. Was that not why he uplifted the High Lords on Terra? So that Humanity may one day rule itself?"
Lorgar's form seemed to waver, a flicker of uncertainty crossing his features. "You speak of potential, but potential means nothing without the strength to realize it. Chaos is that strength. It is the fire that forges the future."
Corax's gaze was piercing, his words a final declaration. "Chaos is a wildfire, destroying everything in its path. True strength lies in building, not destroying. In lifting others up, not dragging them down into the abyss. You have chosen your path, Lorgar, but I will not follow you into the darkness."
The Daemon Primarch's eyes blazed with fury, but beneath it lay a glimmer of something else, regret, perhaps, or a recognition of the truth he could no longer accept. "You are a fool, Corax. You will never understand the power of Chaos."
"And you will never understand the strength of humanity," Corax replied, his voice filled with a quiet, unshakable resolve. "I remember the Emperor's vision and I will fight for it, no matter the cost."
The chamber seemed to close in around them, the walls echoing with the weight of their words. Lorgar's face twisted in a snarl, his voice a venomous hiss. "The Emperor's vision was flawed from the beginning. He sought to unite the galaxy through conquest, through the iron fist of the Great Crusade. But what did it achieve? A fractured Imperium, constantly at war, teetering on the brink of collapse."
Corax's eyes burned with a fierce light, his voice rising with righteous fury. "The Great Crusade was a beacon of hope, a chance to bring order to the chaos of the galaxy. The Emperor's vision was one of unity, of humanity standing together against the darkness. You turned your back on that vision, consumed by your own ambitions."
The chamber seemed to close in around them, the walls echoing with the weight of their words. Lorgar's face twisted in a snarl, his voice a venomous hiss. "The Imperium of the 41st millennium is a testament to the Emperor's failure. It is a rotting carcass, beset on all sides by enemies and corruption. The High Lords bicker and scheme, the Ecclesiarchy preaches lies, and the Inquisition hunts its own. This is the legacy of the Emperor you so blindly defend."
Corax's eyes blazed with righteous fury, his voice rising in defiance. "The Imperium endures because of the strength and sacrifice of countless heroes. It is a beacon of hope in a galaxy of darkness. Yes, it is flawed, but it is worth fighting for. The Emperor's vision lives on in those who refuse to give in to despair, who stand against the tide of chaos."
Lorgar's form flickered with dark energy, his voice a growl. "You speak of hope, but hope is a fragile thing. The Imperium is a crumbling edifice, propped up by lies and blood."
Corax's gaze was unwavering, his words a final declaration. "What of Chaos then? Naught but a path to ruin, to despair. It is a fire that consumes everything in its path. I will fight for the Imperium, for humanity, no matter the cost. The Emperor's vision was one of unity, of hope, and so long as people fight for it, that vision will never die."
Lorgar sneered, stepping closer, his dark aura pressing against Corax's own presence. "And what of your hypocrisy, Corax? You speak of hope and unity, yet you betrayed your own ideals."
"You claim to be a liberator, brother," the Daemon Primarch's voice boomed, a cacophony of whispers and screams, "yet you shackled the very world you sought to free. You handed Deliverance back to the cold clutches of the tech-priests, bending the knee to the Emperor's decree."
Corax flinched, the accusation striking deep. "I did what I had to do. Kiavahr was liberated, but we needed stability. The Emperor's will was clear, and my duty was to the greater good of humanity."
"A 'greater good' that serves the machinations of a tyrant," the Daemon Primarch sneered, his form shifting, shadows writhing around him. "You speak of duty while your hands are stained with the blood of those who trusted you most."
The memory stung Corax, a wound deeper than any blade could inflict. He had indeed executed his once closest confidants, those who continued to resist when he had ordered them to stand down. They had been his brothers-in-arms, his friends, and yet he had condemned them to death for their insubordination.
"They were my brothers," Corax's voice cracked like the surface of a frozen lake underfoot, "but they defied the edicts of the Imperium. They chose their path, as did I."
"And what of your path now, Corax?" the Daemon Primarch asked, his form expanding, engulfing the space between worlds. "You wander the galaxy, a specter of vengeance, haunted by the ghosts of your past. Where is the liberation you promised? Where is the freedom you fought for?"
Corax felt the weight of his brother's words, each one a chain binding him to his failures. He had sought to free his people, to lead them into a new era, but at what cost? The world he had left behind was not the one he had envisioned; it was a place of order and oppression, where the spirit of resistance he had once embodied was crushed beneath the heel of imperial doctrine.
The Daemon Primarch laughed, a sound that echoed through the void, resonating with the pain and suffering of a million souls. "You are no savior, Corax. You are a pawn in a game you do not comprehend, a hypocrite who preaches freedom yet delivers subjugation."
CHOICE:
It is time to intervene. Daemon Primarch Lorgar has got Corax on the back foot and in a disadvantage. You or Lorgar needs to intervene NOW.
Write in how you do it, with a stunt. Social actions only.
[] Write in: (Plan + Stunt)
As Lorgar chose, a figure cloaked in shadows, with eyes that gleamed like the purest obsidian, appeared before them. It was Corax, the Primarch of the Raven Guard, a warrior of stealth and speed. The air around him seemed to shimmer, shadows bending to his will.
"You have chosen an interesting companion, my past self," Daemon Primarch Lorgar remarked, his gaze fixed on the newcomer. "Corax, it has been a while, brother."
Corax stepped forward, his presence commanding yet almost ethereal, as if he were a shadow given form. "Indeed, brother," he replied, his voice smooth and cold. "It seems you have escaped my talons… for now."
Daemon Primarch Lorgar's eyes narrowed, a hint of anger flashing within. "It is a matter of perspective, Corax. You always clung to the shadows, hiding from the truth of the universe. I have embraced it."
Corax's voice grew colder, his words cutting like a blade. "True power does not come from submitting to the whims of malevolent gods. It comes from within, from our choices and our will. You have abandoned your people, your purpose, for a lie."
The Daemon Primarch's face twisted with a mix of anger and pity. "You are blind, Corax. Blind to the possibilities that Chaos offers. The Emperor's vision is flawed, limited. He seeks to control, to impose order where there should be none."
Corax stepped closer, his presence a stark contrast to the oppressive aura of the Daemon Primarch. "The Emperor's vision is one of unity and progress. It is flawed, yes, but it is driven by a desire to protect humanity. Chaos seeks only to consume and destroy."
"You cannot protect humanity from itself," Daemon Primarch Lorgar retorted, his voice growing harsher. "Chaos is the natural state of the universe, the true path to enlightenment. You understand nothing."
Corax's eyes gleamed with defiance, his voice steady and resolute. "I understand more than you think. I understand that true strength comes from within, something you would not know. After all, I sent you running not once but twice, and now I have tracked you down to this place. Had it not been for the rules of the summoning, I would have struck you down."
A growl rumbled deep within the Daemon Primarch's chest, the air around him crackling with barely contained fury. "You dare speak of strength, Corax? You, who hides in the shadows and strikes from the darkness? You know nothing of true power."
Corax's eyes narrowed, his voice cutting like a blade. "True power? You think you understand it because you've surrendered to the whispers of the Warp? True power is not the ability to dominate or destroy; it is the strength to stand firm in your convictions and to face your darkness without succumbing to it."
"You are naive," Lorgar spat, his form flickering with chaotic energy. "You speak of protection, yet the Imperium is a prison, a cage for humanity's potential. Chaos is freedom. It is the essence of all possibility, the infinite paths that lie beyond the Emperor's false promises."
Corax's gaze hardened, a mixture of anger and sorrow flickering in his eyes. "The Imperium is flawed, I know this. But it is a flawed beacon of stability amidst the darkness. It seeks to unify, to bring order where there is chaos. Your path leads only to destruction."
Lorgar laughed, a harsh, mocking sound. "Stability? Is that what you call what the Imperium provides? Stability? The Imperium is no better than those that you claim to oppose."
Corax's voice trembled with restrained fury. "I regret those decisions every day, but we can only take decisions we believed were right at that time. The Emperor's vision offered a future, a chance for humanity to thrive. Chaos offers nothing but annihilation."
"Annihilation?" Lorgar's eyes blazed with dark fire. "Chaos is rebirth, transformation. It is the power to reshape the universe, to break free from the chains of false order. You fear it because you do not understand it."
"I understand it all too well," Corax countered, his voice steely. "Chaos consumes, corrupts, and destroys. It takes what is good and twists it into something monstrous. I will never embrace it, and I will fight it with every breath I have."
Lorgar's expression softened, a flicker of genuine sorrow passing over his features. "You are lost, brother. Bound by the Emperor's lies, you cannot see the truth. Chaos is the ultimate freedom, the path to true enlightenment. One day, you will understand that Chaos is the only truth."
Corax took a step forward, his presence a stark contrast to the oppressive aura of the Daemon Primarch. "Freedom? Is that what you call the anarchy and madness that Chaos brings? You offer nothing but chains of a different kind. The gods of the Warp do not seek to free humanity; they seek to enslave it, to bend it to their will and feast on its suffering."
Lorgar's eyes blazed with a dark light, his voice a thunderous roar. "You are blind! The Emperor's vision is flawed, limited by his arrogance. He seeks to impose his order on a universe that thrives on chaos. He fears the power that lies beyond his control."
Corax's face hardened, his gaze unwavering. "And what of the Dark Gods? You have allowed yourself to be twisted, your soul tainted by the very forces you claim to master. You speak of enlightenment, but you are nothing more than a puppet, dancing to the tune of the Dark Gods."
Lorgar's form shimmered with malevolent energy, his voice filled with venom. "And you, Corax, what are you? A shadow, a ghost clinging to the past. You hide from the truth, from the power that lies within Chaos. You are afraid to embrace your true potential."
Corax's voice was a cold whisper, laced with contempt. "You speak of fear, but it is you who is afraid. Afraid to face the consequences of your actions, to admit that you were wrong. Chaos has consumed you, Lorgar. It has turned you into a monster."
The Daemon Primarch's face twisted in rage, his form expanding with dark energy. "You dare judge me? You, who abandoned the Imperium, who fled into the shadows when the galaxy needed you most? You are a coward, Corax, hiding behind your noble ideals."
Corax's eyes burned with a fierce light, his voice rising with righteous fury. "And what of you Lorgar? You set us all on a path of ruin, of despair. I have seen the devastation your actions brought, the lives shattered, the worlds consumed. You speak of the galaxy needing me, but it is you who ruined it. You were the one who first betrayed everything we once stood for."
Lorgar's laughter echoed through the chamber, a sound devoid of joy. "Betrayal? I have seen the lies of the Imperium, the hypocrisy of the Emperor. He claims to protect humanity, but he seeks only to control it."
Corax's voice was like steel, unyielding. "Is that what you tell yourself? I have fought in the darkness, seen the worst of humanity, and still I believe in its potential for greatness. As did the Emperor. Was that not why he uplifted the High Lords on Terra? So that Humanity may one day rule itself?"
Lorgar's form seemed to waver, a flicker of uncertainty crossing his features. "You speak of potential, but potential means nothing without the strength to realize it. Chaos is that strength. It is the fire that forges the future."
Corax's gaze was piercing, his words a final declaration. "Chaos is a wildfire, destroying everything in its path. True strength lies in building, not destroying. In lifting others up, not dragging them down into the abyss. You have chosen your path, Lorgar, but I will not follow you into the darkness."
The Daemon Primarch's eyes blazed with fury, but beneath it lay a glimmer of something else, regret, perhaps, or a recognition of the truth he could no longer accept. "You are a fool, Corax. You will never understand the power of Chaos."
"And you will never understand the strength of humanity," Corax replied, his voice filled with a quiet, unshakable resolve. "I remember the Emperor's vision and I will fight for it, no matter the cost."
The chamber seemed to close in around them, the walls echoing with the weight of their words. Lorgar's face twisted in a snarl, his voice a venomous hiss. "The Emperor's vision was flawed from the beginning. He sought to unite the galaxy through conquest, through the iron fist of the Great Crusade. But what did it achieve? A fractured Imperium, constantly at war, teetering on the brink of collapse."
Corax's eyes burned with a fierce light, his voice rising with righteous fury. "The Great Crusade was a beacon of hope, a chance to bring order to the chaos of the galaxy. The Emperor's vision was one of unity, of humanity standing together against the darkness. You turned your back on that vision, consumed by your own ambitions."
The chamber seemed to close in around them, the walls echoing with the weight of their words. Lorgar's face twisted in a snarl, his voice a venomous hiss. "The Imperium of the 41st millennium is a testament to the Emperor's failure. It is a rotting carcass, beset on all sides by enemies and corruption. The High Lords bicker and scheme, the Ecclesiarchy preaches lies, and the Inquisition hunts its own. This is the legacy of the Emperor you so blindly defend."
Corax's eyes blazed with righteous fury, his voice rising in defiance. "The Imperium endures because of the strength and sacrifice of countless heroes. It is a beacon of hope in a galaxy of darkness. Yes, it is flawed, but it is worth fighting for. The Emperor's vision lives on in those who refuse to give in to despair, who stand against the tide of chaos."
Lorgar's form flickered with dark energy, his voice a growl. "You speak of hope, but hope is a fragile thing. The Imperium is a crumbling edifice, propped up by lies and blood."
Corax's gaze was unwavering, his words a final declaration. "What of Chaos then? Naught but a path to ruin, to despair. It is a fire that consumes everything in its path. I will fight for the Imperium, for humanity, no matter the cost. The Emperor's vision was one of unity, of hope, and so long as people fight for it, that vision will never die."
Lorgar sneered, stepping closer, his dark aura pressing against Corax's own presence. "And what of your hypocrisy, Corax? You speak of hope and unity, yet you betrayed your own ideals."
"You claim to be a liberator, brother," the Daemon Primarch's voice boomed, a cacophony of whispers and screams, "yet you shackled the very world you sought to free. You handed Deliverance back to the cold clutches of the tech-priests, bending the knee to the Emperor's decree."
Corax flinched, the accusation striking deep. "I did what I had to do. Kiavahr was liberated, but we needed stability. The Emperor's will was clear, and my duty was to the greater good of humanity."
"A 'greater good' that serves the machinations of a tyrant," the Daemon Primarch sneered, his form shifting, shadows writhing around him. "You speak of duty while your hands are stained with the blood of those who trusted you most."
The memory stung Corax, a wound deeper than any blade could inflict. He had indeed executed his once closest confidants, those who continued to resist when he had ordered them to stand down. They had been his brothers-in-arms, his friends, and yet he had condemned them to death for their insubordination.
"They were my brothers," Corax's voice cracked like the surface of a frozen lake underfoot, "but they defied the edicts of the Imperium. They chose their path, as did I."
"And what of your path now, Corax?" the Daemon Primarch asked, his form expanding, engulfing the space between worlds. "You wander the galaxy, a specter of vengeance, haunted by the ghosts of your past. Where is the liberation you promised? Where is the freedom you fought for?"
Corax felt the weight of his brother's words, each one a chain binding him to his failures. He had sought to free his people, to lead them into a new era, but at what cost? The world he had left behind was not the one he had envisioned; it was a place of order and oppression, where the spirit of resistance he had once embodied was crushed beneath the heel of imperial doctrine.
The Daemon Primarch laughed, a sound that echoed through the void, resonating with the pain and suffering of a million souls. "You are no savior, Corax. You are a pawn in a game you do not comprehend, a hypocrite who preaches freedom yet delivers subjugation."
CHOICE:
It is time to intervene. Daemon Primarch Lorgar has got Corax on the back foot and in a disadvantage. You or Lorgar needs to intervene NOW.
Write in how you do it, with a stunt. Social actions only.
[] Write in: (Plan + Stunt)
Let's us both intervene now
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Corax hasn't even noticed our Lorgar or Fan, has he?
Yzarc
The Spark of Madness
No. No he has not.
[X] Confront the Daemon with what you know, with things of this world and this time. the future is not written and he a mere phantasm.
-[X] I know not of this Imperium you speak of and in truth, care not, the reasons to oppose that which you call master might-have-been-shade of my son is that it is opposed to all life, from the smallest seed to the greatest leviathan. The spirits themselves defy you and those you name Truth. It is only by worming your way into hearts and souls like a parasite that you endure. If your masters are so concerned with freedom, so inevitable why did they cling to Dharok so desperately, so greedily? Be the rule of one man or one state flawed men can break it and build anew, but be your masters triumphant there can be no improvement, only the false change of eternal transformation as the yapping of dogs is to the speech of men
-[X] I know not of this Imperium you speak of and in truth, care not, the reasons to oppose that which you call master might-have-been-shade of my son is that it is opposed to all life, from the smallest seed to the greatest leviathan. The spirits themselves defy you and those you name Truth. It is only by worming your way into hearts and souls like a parasite that you endure. If your masters are so concerned with freedom, so inevitable why did they cling to Dharok so desperately, so greedily? Be the rule of one man or one state flawed men can break it and build anew, but be your masters triumphant there can be no improvement, only the false change of eternal transformation as the yapping of dogs is to the speech of men
Thinking of
[] "And yet, in a merely human tyranny, the hope for reform and a brighter future remains alive. The human spirit remains unbroken. Just because men have failed before does not mean they cannot succeed in future, and Corax, you have fought to keep that possibility alive. That alone is a victory. The enlightenment offered by the Chaos Gods is false, but that does not mean that true enlightenment is impossible, and the present Lorgar is living proof. Mankind can restore itself to harmony, both now and in the future, as long as the traps of the Ruinous Powers are seen for what they are."
@Yzarc, I take it we can't offer to Enlighten Corax? Offer him true enlightenment rather than the perversion of it granted by the Chaos Gods to show him that it's possible.
Given the nature of the warp, he may be from an actual real future timeline, and as a warp entity he may well be aware of that.
[] "And yet, in a merely human tyranny, the hope for reform and a brighter future remains alive. The human spirit remains unbroken. Just because men have failed before does not mean they cannot succeed in future, and Corax, you have fought to keep that possibility alive. That alone is a victory. The enlightenment offered by the Chaos Gods is false, but that does not mean that true enlightenment is impossible, and the present Lorgar is living proof. Mankind can restore itself to harmony, both now and in the future, as long as the traps of the Ruinous Powers are seen for what they are."
@Yzarc, I take it we can't offer to Enlighten Corax? Offer him true enlightenment rather than the perversion of it granted by the Chaos Gods to show him that it's possible.
Given the nature of the warp, he may be from an actual real future timeline, and as a warp entity he may well be aware of that.
Last edited:
Yzarc
The Spark of Madness
Nope. This is Purely Social. No other way to effect them other than words and Enuncia does not count.
A thing which from our perspective is meaningless. To our Lorgar in this place and at this time he is only as real as he is allowed to be.
This is where Lorgar knowing some of his Mythos powers like Insidious Rumor Mill or Rousing Speech would be really useful.
It isn't meaningless in terms of what arguments Corax and future Lorgar find convincing.
What we need to do now is stiffen Corax's resolve and encourage him to resist Daemon Lorgar's rhetoric.
It isn't meaningless in terms of what arguments Corax and future Lorgar find convincing.
What we need to do now is stiffen Corax's resolve and encourage him to resist Daemon Lorgar's rhetoric.
[X] That path may be riddled with dangers and obstacles face us at every turn. But we shall know no fear. We have flirted with the extinction before and we shall do so again, again, and again. While humanity is flawed to the core, Chaos is not the true state of the Universe. The power that could be born, it can also die. We will rage against the dying of the light, so long as we stand with each other, no matter the hardship. WE WILL NOT GO QUIETLY INTO THE NIGHT. WE WILL NOT GIVE UP WITHOUT A FIGHT.
Not challenging the reality of Daemon Lorgar will weaken the resolve of our Lorgar, which is a lot more harmful than Birdboy having an existential crises, he's ten thousand years old, he can deal with it
[X] Confront the Daemon with what you know, with things of this world and this time. the future is not written and he a mere phantasm.
-[X] I know not of this Imperium you speak of and in truth, care not, the reasons to oppose that which you call master might-have-been-shade of my son is that it is opposed to all life, from the smallest seed to the greatest leviathan. The spirits themselves defy you and those you name Truth. It is only by worming your way into hearts and souls like a parasite that you endure. If your masters are so concerned with freedom, so inevitable why did they cling to Dharok so desperately, so greedily? Be the rule of one man or one state flawed men can break it and build anew, but be your masters triumphant there can be no improvement, only the false change of eternal transformation as the yapping of dogs is to the speech of men
-[X] I know not of this Imperium you speak of and in truth, care not, the reasons to oppose that which you call master might-have-been-shade of my son is that it is opposed to all life, from the smallest seed to the greatest leviathan. The spirits themselves defy you and those you name Truth. It is only by worming your way into hearts and souls like a parasite that you endure. If your masters are so concerned with freedom, so inevitable why did they cling to Dharok so desperately, so greedily? Be the rule of one man or one state flawed men can break it and build anew, but be your masters triumphant there can be no improvement, only the false change of eternal transformation as the yapping of dogs is to the speech of men
- Location
- Arcadia
One supposes that now is not the appropriate time, but once the vision quest is complete, with Lorgar having time to process everything, one hopes that he will remember his counterpart's words here and rightfully start growing towards at least being very wary of the Emperor and his designs.
Last edited:
[X] Confront the Daemon with what you know, with things of this world and this time. the future is not written and he a mere phantasm.
-[X] I know not of this Imperium you speak of and in truth, care not, the reasons to oppose that which you call master might-have-been-shade of my son is that it is opposed to all life, from the smallest seed to the greatest leviathan. The spirits themselves defy you and those you name Truth. It is only by worming your way into hearts and souls like a parasite that you endure. If your masters are so concerned with freedom, so inevitable why did they cling to Dharok so desperately, so greedily? Be the rule of one man or one state flawed men can break it and build anew, but be your masters triumphant there can be no improvement, only the false change of eternal transformation as the yapping of dogs is to the speech of men
-[X] I know not of this Imperium you speak of and in truth, care not, the reasons to oppose that which you call master might-have-been-shade of my son is that it is opposed to all life, from the smallest seed to the greatest leviathan. The spirits themselves defy you and those you name Truth. It is only by worming your way into hearts and souls like a parasite that you endure. If your masters are so concerned with freedom, so inevitable why did they cling to Dharok so desperately, so greedily? Be the rule of one man or one state flawed men can break it and build anew, but be your masters triumphant there can be no improvement, only the false change of eternal transformation as the yapping of dogs is to the speech of men
[X] Confront the Daemon with what you know, with things of this world and this time. the future is not written and he a mere phantasm.
-[X] I know not of this Imperium you speak of and in truth, care not, the reasons to oppose that which you call master might-have-been-shade of my son is that it is opposed to all life, from the smallest seed to the greatest leviathan. The spirits themselves defy you and those you name Truth. It is only by worming your way into hearts and souls like a parasite that you endure. If your masters are so concerned with freedom, so inevitable why did they cling to Dharok so desperately, so greedily? Be the rule of one man or one state flawed men can break it and build anew, but be your masters triumphant there can be no improvement, only the false change of eternal transformation as the yapping of dogs is to the speech of men
-[X] I know not of this Imperium you speak of and in truth, care not, the reasons to oppose that which you call master might-have-been-shade of my son is that it is opposed to all life, from the smallest seed to the greatest leviathan. The spirits themselves defy you and those you name Truth. It is only by worming your way into hearts and souls like a parasite that you endure. If your masters are so concerned with freedom, so inevitable why did they cling to Dharok so desperately, so greedily? Be the rule of one man or one state flawed men can break it and build anew, but be your masters triumphant there can be no improvement, only the false change of eternal transformation as the yapping of dogs is to the speech of men
[X] Confront the Daemon with what you know, with things of this world and this time. the future is not written and he a mere phantasm.
-[X] I know not of this Imperium you speak of and in truth, care not, the reasons to oppose that which you call master might-have-been-shade of my son is that it is opposed to all life, from the smallest seed to the greatest leviathan. The spirits themselves defy you and those you name Truth. It is only by worming your way into hearts and souls like a parasite that you endure. If your masters are so concerned with freedom, so inevitable why did they cling to Dharok so desperately, so greedily? Be the rule of one man or one state flawed men can break it and build anew, but be your masters triumphant there can be no improvement, only the false change of eternal transformation as the yapping of dogs is to the speech of men
just voting this for now
the way i see it is that both sides have contradictions but it seems corax is the one that is unsettled by his own failures
also can we ask corax if he wants us to give his past self a message or gift of power or what ever?
"hey step-son, your brother and I met your future self to have a debate with my son's future evil alter-ego, he has a message/gift for you"
also #2, why they debating about emperor's imperium vs chaos, i thought the debate was chao was, is and always will be stupid and that the imperium of the future doesn't exist and we can make it follow Present Lorgar's beliefs
-[X] I know not of this Imperium you speak of and in truth, care not, the reasons to oppose that which you call master might-have-been-shade of my son is that it is opposed to all life, from the smallest seed to the greatest leviathan. The spirits themselves defy you and those you name Truth. It is only by worming your way into hearts and souls like a parasite that you endure. If your masters are so concerned with freedom, so inevitable why did they cling to Dharok so desperately, so greedily? Be the rule of one man or one state flawed men can break it and build anew, but be your masters triumphant there can be no improvement, only the false change of eternal transformation as the yapping of dogs is to the speech of men
just voting this for now
the way i see it is that both sides have contradictions but it seems corax is the one that is unsettled by his own failures
bruh, is laugh is evil and tortures millions, he bad.
also can we ask corax if he wants us to give his past self a message or gift of power or what ever?
"hey step-son, your brother and I met your future self to have a debate with my son's future evil alter-ego, he has a message/gift for you"
also #2, why they debating about emperor's imperium vs chaos, i thought the debate was chao was, is and always will be stupid and that the imperium of the future doesn't exist and we can make it follow Present Lorgar's beliefs
Last edited:
If you're wrong and Daemon Lorgar is actually real and he can call us on it in a convincing way, that will undermine current Lorgar much more than not challenging him.
The challenge we're facing here is not to reassure current Lorgar, it's not about him. We need to intervene to reassure Corax, that's the whole point of the interrupt:
This is what we're voting for.
Yzarc
The Spark of Madness
To be frank? They forgot where they are and what they were summoned to do. So they started sniping at each other, though to be fair, Corax started it.
- Location
- Arcadia
Well, it is hilarious to watch this dysfunctional family drama, like a soap opera.
[X] Confront the Daemon with what you know, with things of this world and this time. the future is not written and he a mere phantasm.
-[X] I know not of this Imperium you speak of and in truth, care not, the reasons to oppose that which you call master might-have-been-shade of my son is that it is opposed to all life, from the smallest seed to the greatest leviathan. The spirits themselves defy you and those you name Truth. It is only by worming your way into hearts and souls like a parasite that you endure. If your masters are so concerned with freedom, so inevitable why did they cling to Dharok so desperately, so greedily? Be the rule of one man or one state flawed men can break it and build anew, but be your masters triumphant there can be no improvement, only the false change of eternal transformation as the yapping of dogs is to the speech of men
-[X] I know not of this Imperium you speak of and in truth, care not, the reasons to oppose that which you call master might-have-been-shade of my son is that it is opposed to all life, from the smallest seed to the greatest leviathan. The spirits themselves defy you and those you name Truth. It is only by worming your way into hearts and souls like a parasite that you endure. If your masters are so concerned with freedom, so inevitable why did they cling to Dharok so desperately, so greedily? Be the rule of one man or one state flawed men can break it and build anew, but be your masters triumphant there can be no improvement, only the false change of eternal transformation as the yapping of dogs is to the speech of men
There is no meaningful way he can prove his external reality under the rules we are operating under. The best he can do is peacock about how great and mighty and eternal Chaos is again... and I am counting on that. 😈
[] "Thy Gods are less than the least wretch to be born a man under the sky and they know it. That is why they seek to remake us in their image, they envy us and...." it is as if a shadow spoke in your ear. "They fear us" Walk up to the Fallen Lorgar. "Men have killed gods before, willing slave to bad masters."
Last edited: