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Dungeon Crawler You!

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Look, I still really dislike taking Mystic Scholar this Floor, because I'm still convinced Drew simply doesn't have the stats to use Create Spellbook on itself, and that's the main argument for it people have been making. Because of this, I never actually considered Time Cube, because it was made with the explicit intention of allowing Drew to take Mystic Scholar. And I also really wanted to see Catkin pay off in a Hellcatkin or Schrodinger's Catkin. (Incidentally, does anyone want me to explain my idea for what Schrodinger's Catkin would be?)

But Chronan is also legitimately interesting, and I do want Moose to get his Class, so...

[ ] Moose in a Time Cube
 
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Plan votes do not cancel each other out. If you like the idea of Time-manipulating Leo, Mystic Scholar Drew, and Int-boosted Moose - vote for
[X] Moose in a Time Cube

If it gets close to winning you can start considering if you want to remove your other main plan vote or not. And it does have a hope of winning because while it's got 8 votes now there are a great many "Moose" votes which should apply to it.
 
With the tally in it's current state Mystic Scholar is winning the Drew vote while Moose in a Time Cube is quite far from winning, this would hypothetically lead to Catkin Leo and Mystic Scholar winning which I don't think most people want. And my impressions of the Moose vote isn't that it can override votes that outmatch it such as Mystic Scholar and Catkin Leo presently do. My intuition for how Moose votes should be applied is as an addition to the highest voted plan that gets Moose sapience which would include Wizard Supremacist, Democratic Senator, and Moose in a Time Cube, the issue with that is that Moose in a Time Cube is in a different category than the other two options and it would be unfair to the presently leading plans that could include giving Moose sapience with the right Drew class to give Moose in a Time Cube votes that weren't actually directed at it. And of course the presently existing approval votes would need to be taken into account to avoid a voter counting twice because they approval voted Moose and a plan that would fall under it. @eaglejarl do you have any thoughts on how this should be handled?
 
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[X] Moose in a Time Cube
I like this idea a lot, and Time shenanigans are always a treat to witness

[X] Moose
Catching the overall moose vote to ensure it gets boosted
 
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Pyran said:
With the tally in it's current state Mystic Scholar is winning the Drew vote while Moose in a Time Cube is quite far from winning, this would hypothetically lead to Catkin Leo and Mystic Scholar winning which I don't think most people want
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They did, and then we found out we could give Moose a class if we finessed things to make him sapient before Race/Class selection ended.
 
[X] (Drew) Local-Access TV Psychic
[X] (Drew) Democratic Senator
[X] Drew: Wizard supremacist
Eh all three of these can give a int boost to Moose
 
Pyran said:
With the tally in it's current state Mystic Scholar is winning the Drew vote while Moose in a Time Cube is quite far from winning, this would hypothetically lead to Catkin Leo and Mystic Scholar winning which I don't think most people want. And my impressions of the Moose vote isn't that it can override votes that outmatch it such as Mystic Scholar and Catkin Leo presently do. My intuition for how Moose votes should be applied is as an addition to the highest voted plan that gets Moose sapience which would include Wizard Supremacist, Democratic Senator, and Moose in a Time Cube, the issue with that is that Moose in a Time Cube is in a different category than the other two options and it would be unfair to the presently leading plans that could include giving Moose sapience with the right Drew class to give Moose in a Time Cube votes that weren't actually directed at it. And of course the presently existing approval votes would need to be taken into account to avoid a voter counting twice because they approval voted Moose and a plan that would fall under it. @eaglejarl do you have any thoughts on how this should be handled?
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This is why you should get QM permission before breaking the voting format. Lesson learned for whoever started the Moose vote.

In any case, we have a QM who can interpret this, check which names are below which vote if needed, and make a decision. Or maybe he'll just ignore the Moose vote entirely. I'm sure we won't get a redundant outcome, anyway.
Still, I'd prefer if people didn't vote for Moose and just went for Moose in a Time Cube
 
Pyran said:
Prior to Moose in a Time Box giving Mystic Scholar a resurgence Live Access Psychic, Moose, Democratic Senator, and Wizard Supremacist were near the top and all of those boost Moose from his present 1 Int to at least 2 which would provide sapience. I highly doubt anyone voting for Mystic Scholar because of Moose in a Time Box actually wants Moose to not be sapient so this is clearly a problem with the way votes are presently being calculated rather than just the new information.
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This is incorrect.
Moose in a Time Box did not create more votes for Mystic Scholar. Mystic Scholar was the leading option before we realized we should be boosting Moose's Int, and those votes were just never cancelled. Moose in a Time Box instead offers a way to get a sentient Moose and get the amazing ability to share spells around by creating spellbooks.
 
I do not think EJ is gonna accept blanket Moose, looking at the bottom of this post Dungeon Crawler You!
Relevant text: ""Note: It's everyone's responsibility to make sure that their vote is tallied the way they want it to be; I'm not going to do the work of combining them. There is a large plurality of voters who want the same thing but have formatted their votes differently, are therefore showing up separately in the tally, and are therefore not supporting each other."

Edit: More relevant post: Dungeon Crawler You!
eaglejarl said:
What @Lalm said. When voting closes I'm going to take the top option and use it. If it turns out that some other option should have won but people formatted their votes incompatibly, so they were scattered across 8 items instead of consolidated...well, that's a shame. Also, if we have a situation where I need to choose multiple items in order to get a plan for everyone, that may result in more unhappiness. e.g. if the top two votes on the tally are:

9 votes: [] Kitty Dealer
- [] Calliope: Catkin and Wheeler Dealer
- [] Taylor: Doppleganger and Sysop

8 votes: [] Shifty Wizard
- [] Calliope: Doppleganger and Boring Ol' Fighter
- [] Taylor: Doppleganger and Archmage
- [] Drew: Wizard Supremacist


...then, since Kitty Dealer didn't have an entry for Drew, we're going to end up with the following:

- [] Calliope: Catkin and Wheeler Dealer
- [] Taylor: Doppleganger and Sysop
- [] Drew: Wizard Supremacist
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Pyran said:
Prior to Moose in a Time Box giving Mystic Scholar a resurgence Live Access Psychic, Moose, Democratic Senator, and Wizard Supremacist were near the top and all of those boost Moose from his present 1 Int to at least 2 which would provide sapience. I highly doubt anyone voting for Mystic Scholar because of Moose in a Time Box actually wants Moose to not be sapient so this is clearly a problem with the way votes are presently being calculated rather than just the information being new.
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Mystic Scholar was winning. Moose in a Time Cube won't boost it at all unless it becomes the winner. Maybe, maybe if it beats all the Drew specific votes but not Catkin Leo, it would be counted as the highest rated Drew vote, but I doubt that.

Psychic fails as I already said and all but one of those votes are from the initial set before Scholar overtook it. The others were not anywhere near beating the 13 votes for Scholar yet, so I have no idea what you're talking about?
 
Gintarazimu said:
I do not think EJ is gonna accept blanket Moose, looking at the bottom of this post Dungeon Crawler You!
Relevant text: ""Note: It's everyone's responsibility to make sure that their vote is tallied the way they want it to be; I'm not going to do the work of combining them. There is a large plurality of voters who want the same thing but have formatted their votes differently, are therefore showing up separately in the tally, and are therefore not supporting each other."
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Yeah, I think it's very likely blanket "moose" is not gonna fly.
 
Gintarazimu said:
I do not think EJ is gonna accept blanket Moose, looking at the bottom of this post Dungeon Crawler You!
Relevant text: ""Note: It's everyone's responsibility to make sure that their vote is tallied the way they want it to be; I'm not going to do the work of combining them. There is a large plurality of voters who want the same thing but have formatted their votes differently, are therefore showing up separately in the tally, and are therefore not supporting each other."

Edit: More relevant post: Dungeon Crawler You!
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IMO this is why voting for plans (title gets the vote with the body in only one post) and not other formats is the way to go. Voting for a single line is non-confusing and provides support for forking as well as updating.

This is how all previous votes in the quest have been done, too.
 
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The overall Moose vote was basically just to let the concept of "allow dog to get a class" to beat out other specific options. Once that vote wins it goes to the first plan that enables that, which could easily be Moose In a time cube


Maybe I'm being tired and ornery. Fun brainstorming today everyone, heading to bed
 
TalonofAnathrax said:
This is incorrect.
Moose in a Time Box did not create more votes for Mystic Scholar. Mystic Scholar was the leading option before we realized we should be boosting Moose's Int, and those votes were just never cancelled. Moose in a Time Box instead offers a way to get a sentient Moose and get the amazing ability to share spells around by creating spellbooks.
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Ah sorry about that I must have missed it when I was looking at the tally during that time. I have missed a couple things so I probably need to get to bed for the night.
 
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Gintarazimu said:
I do not think EJ is gonna accept blanket Moose, looking at the bottom of this post Dungeon Crawler You!
Relevant text: ""Note: It's everyone's responsibility to make sure that their vote is tallied the way they want it to be; I'm not going to do the work of combining them. There is a large plurality of voters who want the same thing but have formatted their votes differently, are therefore showing up separately in the tally, and are therefore not supporting each other."

Edit: More relevant post: Dungeon Crawler You!
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I think the key point about the "Moose" vote is that if it overtakes anything that would result in a build that can't make Moose sapient (such as the current leader of Catkin Leo+Mystic Scholar) it will then make those combinations invalid and we'll get whatever secondary (Drew) vote will actually give us a high enough Int bonus that has the most votes.
 
Twinnstars said:
The overall Moose vote was basically just to let the concept of "allow dog to get a class" to beat out other specific options. Once that vote wins it goes to the first plan that enables that, which could easily be Moose In a time cube
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eaglejarl said:
When voting closes I'm going to take the top option and use it. If it turns out that some other option should have won but people formatted their votes incompatibly, so they were scattered across 8 items instead of consolidated...well, that's a shame.
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beowolf said:
I think the key point about the "Moose" vote is that if it overtakes anything that would result in a build that can't make Moose sapient (such as the current leader of Catkin Leo+Mystic Scholar) it will then make those combinations invalid and we'll get whatever secondary (Drew) vote will actually give us a high enough Int bonus that has the most votes.
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The more sticking point is that I think people are assuming that, when EJ tallies the vote, he will see the "Moose" votes, and add it to whatever is the most popular Moose vote, which is untrue. If I am wrong in this assumption, then everything should be fine. But the way I'm reading the thread I do not think I am making an incorrect assumption
 
Bond674 said:
I question the Moose vote because it doesn't actually seem to have any substance to it...
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Question how? The Moose vote was basically, "+1 to any vote that gets Moose a Class now" regardless of what said plan is, without hunting down every option that could do that outright. That said, it's very possible that EJ may miss or disqualify that type of vote entirely, so to play things safe.

[X] Moose in a Time Cube

Just so I have all the plans
 
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