Deep Red (Avatar: The Last Airbender)

I don't want to be rude, but to be honest it feels like you are not reporting an accurate version of events.

The players did not at any point vote to work with Iroh against Ozai. The vote tied and stayed tied for several minutes, in large part because it seemed like someone or multiple people were keeping it that way on purpose. The run-off happened because of that tie, not because I wanted to push one option over another. If I had wanted to push one option, I literally could have just cast a tiebreaker vote. I understand it was a mistake to choose to have that tie represented in story by Akane hesitating and Ozai trying to intimidate her further, and I apologize for that.

There was only one vote that was actually deleted and redone last night - the military vote. It was deleted and redone because it was unclear what the vote was actually about. It had nothing to do with Zuko. People have been claiming since then that multiple other votes were deleted and redone and "everyone saw it", no matter how many people tell them that didn't happen. And there's honestly just nothing I can do at this point to counter those assertions.

I have done everything I can to try to explain when voters could have made things go differently and how. I just made a big post here outlining all the ways you could have avoided being in this situation to begin with. I warned people in chat multiple times over the past few weeks that pissing Ozai off would actually have consequences for them and that they could avoid pissing him off by doing simple things he very clearly told them to do in story, like not buddy up to the brother he thinks is after his throne. At this point, I don't know what else I can do.

A lot of the reason why I need a break from this quest is because no matter what I say or do to try to clarify things, within five minutes everyone seems to have convinced each other that I said something completely different and horrible that's going to ruin the quest. At this point I feel like I have no way to communicate with my readers. I understand that that must be my own fault or something like that but I really don't know how to fix it. I made that massive post outlining future plans and people on fiction.live's chat immediately came to the conclusion that I was saying Akane could never become a strong or powerful character, all the potential for future success was gone, things like the 'sun goddess' route were completely cut off, and the rest of the quest would be nothing more than her struggling to get back to where she was, as though my goal for her character development was just a closed circle. I must have somehow implied all of that but I really don't know how.

I feel like I could make the next arc of the quest into something good, but judging from people's feedback I don't know if the audience feels the same way. I don't know what I'm going to do, and I don't feel like any of my communication with the audience ever actually works to clarify things. I'm just going to take a break.

I really appreciate everyone's feedback and support and I'm sorry for all the trouble.
 
I also feel like the next arc could be really good, and I really want to see it! Btw, I actually asked Kosm to throw a tie breaker, and she refused.
 
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I don't want to be rude, but to be honest it feels like you are not reporting an accurate version of events.

The players did not at any point vote to work with Iroh against Ozai. The vote tied and stayed tied for several minutes, in large part because it seemed like someone or multiple people were keeping it that way on purpose. The run-off happened because of that tie, not because I wanted to push one option over another. If I had wanted to push one option, I literally could have just cast a tiebreaker vote. I understand it was a mistake to choose to have that tie represented in story by Akane hesitating and Ozai trying to intimidate her further, and I apologize for that.

There was only one vote that was actually deleted and redone last night - the military vote. It was deleted and redone because it was unclear what the vote was actually about. It had nothing to do with Zuko. People have been claiming since then that multiple other votes were deleted and redone and "everyone saw it", no matter how many people tell them that didn't happen. And there's honestly just nothing I can do at this point to counter those assertions.

I have done everything I can to try to explain when voters could have made things go differently and how. I just made a big post here outlining all the ways you could have avoided being in this situation to begin with. I warned people in chat multiple times over the past few weeks that pissing Ozai off would actually have consequences for them and that they could avoid pissing him off by doing simple things he very clearly told them to do in story, like not buddy up to the brother he thinks is after his throne. At this point, I don't know what else I can do.

A lot of the reason why I need a break from this quest is because no matter what I say or do to try to clarify things, within five minutes everyone seems to have convinced each other that I said something completely different and horrible that's going to ruin the quest. At this point I feel like I have no way to communicate with my readers. I understand that that must be my own fault or something like that but I really don't know how to fix it. I made that massive post outlining future plans and people on fiction.live's chat immediately came to the conclusion that I was saying Akane could never become a strong or powerful character, all the potential for future success was gone, things like the 'sun goddess' route were completely cut off, and the rest of the quest would be nothing more than her struggling to get back to where she was, as though my goal for her character development was just a closed circle. I must have somehow implied all of that but I really don't know how.

I feel like I could make the next arc of the quest into something good, but judging from people's feedback I don't know if the audience feels the same way. I don't know what I'm going to do, and I don't feel like any of my communication with the audience ever actually works to clarify things. I'm just going to take a break.

I really appreciate everyone's feedback and support and I'm sorry for all the trouble.

I just want you to know that you write fucking fantastically, and I have absolute faith that you'll make something incredible out of the next arc.
 
Ehhhh. Off hand, something about a retcon in situation makes me super anxious This feels like the kind of high stakes situation where we comparatively got off lightly. Azula is still fine, and (speaking extremely personally) Mitsuko is still fine. Both of them seem like they could've easily been at risk if we had a confrontation with Ozai. Especially Mitsuko--failing to burn Zuko could've easily led to Ozai switching focus to Mitsuko If he thought she was important to Akane, but didn't realize how important, he still could've demanded Akane kill her as "just" a handmaiden, and the resulting freakout would've revealed just how important Mitsuko actually is.
Akane's been really fragile and unstable for a long time. This might not necessarily be the best time to break, but it's not really the worst either, especially if Ozai is actually still invested in her.

Although I still have a lingering bad feeling about the ending conversation with Ozai. It's really not clear how Akane is supposed to have avoided burning Zuko, what Ozai would've done if she'd just chosen not to. Or, if her bending had completely failed her, leaving just a superficial surface burn.
Or if Akane had outright said "my will was my sun, you broke it, you broke me," and showed him the dull flames. LIke, what did he expect, what does he think he's done? So much of this only makes sense if Ozai's had a long term plan to discard Akane, set her up as a contrast for her sister.
 
Honestly it seems pretty clear cut to me. This wouldn't have happened if the readers hadn't chosen to associate with Iroh when it was clear that doing so was a bad idea. No if or buts about it. Then they decided to escalate an already tense situation by threatening Ozai which is a very bad idea. The conclusion, Ozai's little breakdown speech, is definitely something that would rustle some jimmies but that's the only thing. There was no clear cut win in this scenario. The readers put themselves into a shit situation and instead of making a small sacrifice they stubbornly forged ahead and hoped for the best. If it makes you feel better, I've seen this happen here on SV so it's more of a quest thing than a Anonkun thing(although that probably didn't help at all).

I look forward to the next arc, if you continue, and I hope you enjoy your break. It should do you some good. This story/quest has been a delight to follow.
 
Well a breakdown was going to be inevitable anyway.
Iroh had his when hunting Dragons and again when Lu Ten died.
Zuko had one at the start of Avatar when he was exiled.
Azula was having one when Mai and Ty Lee left her till the end of the series.
She never recovered.
Akane had one when Ursa abandoned her and also when Azulon died.
There was no chance that she was going to last at court with Ozai increasing the pressure.
One thing about Akane is that all her confidence is derived from family approval. Azula and Ozai's approval is what determines her self worth.

She needs to expand her social circle and the war will let her travel to faraway places, meet new and exciting people and make friends with/kill them.
 
I think I need to clarify... I really, really do want to continue this story, and I am not making any plans to abandon it. I know I'm coming across as very frustrated, and I am lol. I feel like I made a lot of mistakes in running this and it's just sort of turned into a mess. But I have no intention of abandoning the quest, I really am just trying to figure out how to move forward. And I'm very sorry I'm being very short with people right now, it's just a sort of stressful time atm. Thank you all for your patience.
 
I think this is running into the standard issue of quests. Quests by nature run on bandwagons with people who view the character of a representation of themselves, with a strong stake in their personal success. They want to win, and I love how you represented that in the quest early on by characterizing Akane as fake and caring obsessively about success and image.

Until now, you've done a beautiful job managing your voters and using that to make a successful story, but it's clearly been putting a toll on you. I think the problem is that you want to tell a story - and there's an excellent one here and an even better one to come - but it's going to be difficult as long as you have to battle the wants of the players.

I think the best thing you can do for the story is turn it into a story, not a quest. Cast it yourself and let yourself write what you like. For what it's worth, I think what you've done and how you interpreted the votes have been excellent and properly done so far.
 
I feel like part of our problem is that chat is a really bad way to come to a decision. Everybody is yelling over each other. The voting system is shitty too. It should be some form of transferrable vote. Your strength is in writing a compelling story, and you should play to it.
 
From everything I have heard and read it sounds like the problem is people not realizing the difference between a Role Play Quest and a Wish Fulfillment Quest.

Hence choices like the clear and obvious obsession with Mitsuki since she was twelve and trying to play "I will agree to your face then do X behind your back" games with the intelligent and rather clear sociopath that is Ozai.

Because while choices like that might work out with everything coming up Akane in wish fulfillment fics since the world/author bends over backwards to make everything work out.

In serious RP stories, well, you end up with basically the sort of thing you see here where actions end up causing both positive and negative reactions in the world around them.

And honestly, as a reader, I prefer the RP stories.
 
I don't want to be rude, but to be honest it feels like you are not reporting an accurate version of events.

The players did not at any point vote to work with Iroh against Ozai. The vote tied and stayed tied for several minutes, in large part because it seemed like someone or multiple people were keeping it that way on purpose. The run-off happened because of that tie, not because I wanted to push one option over another. If I had wanted to push one option, I literally could have just cast a tiebreaker vote. I understand it was a mistake to choose to have that tie represented in story by Akane hesitating and Ozai trying to intimidate her further, and I apologize for that.

There was only one vote that was actually deleted and redone last night - the military vote. It was deleted and redone because it was unclear what the vote was actually about. It had nothing to do with Zuko. People have been claiming since then that multiple other votes were deleted and redone and "everyone saw it", no matter how many people tell them that didn't happen. And there's honestly just nothing I can do at this point to counter those assertions.

I have done everything I can to try to explain when voters could have made things go differently and how. I just made a big post here outlining all the ways you could have avoided being in this situation to begin with. I warned people in chat multiple times over the past few weeks that pissing Ozai off would actually have consequences for them and that they could avoid pissing him off by doing simple things he very clearly told them to do in story, like not buddy up to the brother he thinks is after his throne. At this point, I don't know what else I can do.

A lot of the reason why I need a break from this quest is because no matter what I say or do to try to clarify things, within five minutes everyone seems to have convinced each other that I said something completely different and horrible that's going to ruin the quest. At this point I feel like I have no way to communicate with my readers. I understand that that must be my own fault or something like that but I really don't know how to fix it. I made that massive post outlining future plans and people on fiction.live's chat immediately came to the conclusion that I was saying Akane could never become a strong or powerful character, all the potential for future success was gone, things like the 'sun goddess' route were completely cut off, and the rest of the quest would be nothing more than her struggling to get back to where she was, as though my goal for her character development was just a closed circle. I must have somehow implied all of that but I really don't know how.

I feel like I could make the next arc of the quest into something good, but judging from people's feedback I don't know if the audience feels the same way. I don't know what I'm going to do, and I don't feel like any of my communication with the audience ever actually works to clarify things. I'm just going to take a break.

I really appreciate everyone's feedback and support and I'm sorry for all the trouble.

While it might seem this way, it is actually a vocal, very vocal, minority. Even on fiction.live a lot of people were actually productive, sane and somewhat polite. Wonders never cease. Just check actual discussion threads with people trying to plan for the future and to solve the current situation, peacefully talking to each other.

The main problem I see is the "anon" culture over there. If only registered users with actual names could vote, a lot of problems like fake votes and people feeling completely free to do whatever without consequences could be avoided.

Still.
I think you reached a lot of readers, sadly I understand if you do not feel this way.

This said.
All I voted for lost.
The update was painful to read.

I still feel that there are fantastic possibilities opening up as well.

Having to confront her humanity and fallibility is something Akane needed to do in my opinion.
 
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Although I still have a lingering bad feeling about the ending conversation with Ozai. It's really not clear how Akane is supposed to have avoided burning Zuko, what Ozai would've done if she'd just chosen not to. Or, if her bending had completely failed her, leaving just a superficial surface burn.
Or if Akane had outright said "my will was my sun, you broke it, you broke me," and showed him the dull flames. LIke, what did he expect, what does he think he's done? So much of this only makes sense if Ozai's had a long term plan to discard Akane, set her up as a contrast for her sister.
He is gaslighting her to break her, not to make her useless, or even necessarily to replace her with Azula, but to take those broken pieces and reshape it to his will.

He doesn't want her will to be her Sun.

He wants his will to be her Sun.

He just literally managed to break our connection to the only person who can help us and finally has us in a mental state where he feels we have no choice but to accept his instruction.

If we temporarily become weaker for this, that is fine. That means it is working, that our will is broken and that he has a chance to mend us into the image that he wants us to be.

He doesn't want Akane or Azula.

He wants a mini-Ozai completely loyal to his will.
 
I don't want to be rude, but to be honest it feels like you are not reporting an accurate version of events.

The players did not at any point vote to work with Iroh against Ozai. The vote tied and stayed tied for several minutes, in large part because it seemed like someone or multiple people were keeping it that way on purpose. The run-off happened because of that tie, not because I wanted to push one option over another. If I had wanted to push one option, I literally could have just cast a tiebreaker vote. I understand it was a mistake to choose to have that tie represented in story by Akane hesitating and Ozai trying to intimidate her further, and I apologize for that.

There was only one vote that was actually deleted and redone last night - the military vote. It was deleted and redone because it was unclear what the vote was actually about. It had nothing to do with Zuko. People have been claiming since then that multiple other votes were deleted and redone and "everyone saw it", no matter how many people tell them that didn't happen. And there's honestly just nothing I can do at this point to counter those assertions.

I have done everything I can to try to explain when voters could have made things go differently and how. I just made a big post here outlining all the ways you could have avoided being in this situation to begin with. I warned people in chat multiple times over the past few weeks that pissing Ozai off would actually have consequences for them and that they could avoid pissing him off by doing simple things he very clearly told them to do in story, like not buddy up to the brother he thinks is after his throne. At this point, I don't know what else I can do.

A lot of the reason why I need a break from this quest is because no matter what I say or do to try to clarify things, within five minutes everyone seems to have convinced each other that I said something completely different and horrible that's going to ruin the quest. At this point I feel like I have no way to communicate with my readers. I understand that that must be my own fault or something like that but I really don't know how to fix it. I made that massive post outlining future plans and people on fiction.live's chat immediately came to the conclusion that I was saying Akane could never become a strong or powerful character, all the potential for future success was gone, things like the 'sun goddess' route were completely cut off, and the rest of the quest would be nothing more than her struggling to get back to where she was, as though my goal for her character development was just a closed circle. I must have somehow implied all of that but I really don't know how.

I feel like I could make the next arc of the quest into something good, but judging from people's feedback I don't know if the audience feels the same way. I don't know what I'm going to do, and I don't feel like any of my communication with the audience ever actually works to clarify things. I'm just going to take a break.

I really appreciate everyone's feedback and support and I'm sorry for all the trouble.
I like to think of you as an impartial storm, a force of nature.
If you spew lightning and someone is surprised when the thunder comes, its not on you.
So you fry the guy and move forward, because its your world, and its infinitely more interesting with consequences.
I do not like where Akane is, but I'm excited seeing where she'll go to.
 
Okay, I guess in general I'm not sure what people like Ozai expect to have happen with children they treat like this. It makes brief sense as Akane being a largely broken minion he can point at a few issues over the next decade. It doesn't make sense as a long-term heir and the next Empress of the Fire Nation once he finally dies.
Unless he literally doesn't care what happens after he's gone? Like otherwise what the fuck.
The betrothal to whatshisface is similar, what the hell does Ozai think is going to happen once he dismembers the merchant families and his heir is stuck with a resentful consort? Again, so much only makes sense with Akane as a chess piece he's intending to discard at some point.
 
I think I need to clarify... I really, really do want to continue this story, and I am not making any plans to abandon it. I know I'm coming across as very frustrated, and I am lol. I feel like I made a lot of mistakes in running this and it's just sort of turned into a mess. But I have no intention of abandoning the quest, I really am just trying to figure out how to move forward. And I'm very sorry I'm being very short with people right now, it's just a sort of stressful time atm. Thank you all for your patience.
A possible thing you could do to make voting less contentious and bandwagoning more difficult would be to do something I've seen in another quest on fiction.live, Promises of Power. Instead of having a few options people vote for, you instead have a readers post section where people could post what they want to happen and you could then just skim/read the posts and take and pick the comments you like or believe represent what the readers want. The QM of 'Promises of Power' did this after a series of contentious votes and the subsequent reader frustration and it seems to have worked. I think adopting this approach might give you more control over how the story proceeds while at the same time making voting less contentious as bandwagoning becomes more difficult and might further separate Akane and the voters so that voters are less frustrated after Akane suffers a setback.
 
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A lot of the reason why I need a break from this quest is because no matter what I say or do to try to clarify things, within five minutes everyone seems to have convinced each other that I said something completely different and horrible that's going to ruin the quest. At this point I feel like I have no way to communicate with my readers. I understand that that must be my own fault or something like that but I really don't know how to fix it. I made that massive post outlining future plans and people on fiction.live's chat immediately came to the conclusion that I was saying Akane could never become a strong or powerful character, all the potential for future success was gone, things like the 'sun goddess' route were completely cut off, and the rest of the quest would be nothing more than her struggling to get back to where she was, as though my goal for her character development was just a closed circle. I must have somehow implied all of that but I really don't know how.

Any time you say anything, people are going to be looking at it through the lens of whatever their preferences or worst fears are, interpreting it through that lens, and then taking that interpretation as the absolute, unambiguous truth. Honestly, I just don't think there's a way to avoid this on fiction.live, with its frenetic, frantic voting and no easy way to keep track of all of what a QM has previously said. It's hard enough here on SV, where a QM can have the time to read and respond to everyone, where their statements can be kept track of (and threadmarked even!) so it doesn't turn into a paranoid game of telephone, and votes don't have to be opened or closed before everything is straightened out.
 
A possible thing you could do to make voting less contentious and bandwagoning more difficult would be to do something I've seen in another quest on fiction.live, Promises of Power. Instead of having a few options people vote for, you instead have a readers post section where people could post what they want to happen and you could then just skim/read the posts and take and pick the comments you like or believe represent what the readers want. I think this might give you more control over how the story proceeds while at the same time making voting less contentious as bandwagoning becomes more difficult and might further separate Akane and the voters so that voters are less frustrated after Akane suffers a setback.

This is the traditional quest style first pioneered on 4chan, where you basically just pick whatever choice sounds coolest to you.
 
I Akane in exile, particularly 'undercover', would be very interesting. Though I definitely worry that things have been and will be railroaded in order to adhere to canon events. This zuko thing isn't actually a big surprise because I've been afraid the shape of canon is going to repeat, and now it does.

The learning something from Iroh thing is a bit annoying. Was she just guaranteed to be caught, no matter that we said we'd keep a careful eye out? Also I feel like "He offered me powerful bending techniques, are you saying I should turn down power" deserves a response.

Burning Zuko does really seem out of character (its opposite to her most core character trait), but she hasn't been pushed that far before, so... I guess? Maybe better would be a Sophie's Choice scenario... burn one or I burn both much worse. Then burning Zuko wouldn't make me feel like she's broken her character fundamentals, while still being extremely traumatic for her.

The broken will thing... I personally don't like it. It's just not fun. Frankly I'm much more on board with the Azula type of crazy, which also seemed much better foreshadowed. Exile away from Azula and Zuko (and Iroh) also kinda prevents any emotional resolution or relationship growth.


The mechanic of the votes is a little awkward, particularly with the quick time limits (though that has many advantages certainly). + votes can be a little problematic. It's easy to have votes that seem great, then some + option ruins them (like a random joke to say Ozai sounded like Azulon, a pointless insult that wasn't even true at all). Conversely sometimes plans seem good, but have one dumb line, and there's no - option to remove it. Not sure of a way to fix this really.

I do feel like having Ozai make jabs that sure seemed directed right at the questers was a bit much.

Overall I definitely think you should continue (retcon or no). It's a really strong story, and the fact that people are taking it hard is because they are very invested.
 
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I have faith that it'll be good, whatever you do, kosm. You're an excellent writer. I honestly think the players might've gotten used to your writing chops semi-covering for bad decisionmaking previously, until something so direct was said that couldn't be written around.
Unless he literally doesn't care what happens after he's gone?
Canonically, it seemed pretty clear he doesn't, in AtLA. At least, to me he came across that way.
 
I don't want to be rude, but to be honest it feels like you are not reporting an accurate version of events.

The players did not at any point vote to work with Iroh against Ozai. The vote tied and stayed tied for several minutes, in large part because it seemed like someone or multiple people were keeping it that way on purpose. The run-off happened because of that tie, not because I wanted to push one option over another. If I had wanted to push one option, I literally could have just cast a tiebreaker vote. I understand it was a mistake to choose to have that tie represented in story by Akane hesitating and Ozai trying to intimidate her further, and I apologize for that.

There was only one vote that was actually deleted and redone last night - the military vote. It was deleted and redone because it was unclear what the vote was actually about. It had nothing to do with Zuko. People have been claiming since then that multiple other votes were deleted and redone and "everyone saw it", no matter how many people tell them that didn't happen. And there's honestly just nothing I can do at this point to counter those assertions.

I have done everything I can to try to explain when voters could have made things go differently and how. I just made a big post here outlining all the ways you could have avoided being in this situation to begin with. I warned people in chat multiple times over the past few weeks that pissing Ozai off would actually have consequences for them and that they could avoid pissing him off by doing simple things he very clearly told them to do in story, like not buddy up to the brother he thinks is after his throne. At this point, I don't know what else I can do.

A lot of the reason why I need a break from this quest is because no matter what I say or do to try to clarify things, within five minutes everyone seems to have convinced each other that I said something completely different and horrible that's going to ruin the quest. At this point I feel like I have no way to communicate with my readers. I understand that that must be my own fault or something like that but I really don't know how to fix it. I made that massive post outlining future plans and people on fiction.live's chat immediately came to the conclusion that I was saying Akane could never become a strong or powerful character, all the potential for future success was gone, things like the 'sun goddess' route were completely cut off, and the rest of the quest would be nothing more than her struggling to get back to where she was, as though my goal for her character development was just a closed circle. I must have somehow implied all of that but I really don't know how.

I feel like I could make the next arc of the quest into something good, but judging from people's feedback I don't know if the audience feels the same way. I don't know what I'm going to do, and I don't feel like any of my communication with the audience ever actually works to clarify things. I'm just going to take a break.

I really appreciate everyone's feedback and support and I'm sorry for all the trouble.
Hey, I promise, you're not any trouble. I hope things get better by the time you come back to this, if you do! If not, I'm happy to have been a part of this!
 
I Akane in exile, particularly 'undercover', would be very interesting. Though I definitely worry that things have been and will be railroaded in order to adhere to canon events. This zuko thing isn't actually a big surprise because I've been afraid the shape of canon is going to repeat, and now it does.

The learning something from Iroh thing is a bit annoying. Was she just guaranteed to be caught, no matter that we said we'd keep a careful eye out? Also I feel like "He offered me powerful bending techniques, are you saying I should turn down power" deserves a response.

Burning Zuko does really seem out of character (its opposite to her most core character trait), but she hasn't been pushed that far before, so... I guess? The broken will thing... I personally don't like it. It's just not fun. Frankly I'm much more on board with the Azula type of crazy, which also seemed much better foreshadowed. Exile away from Azula and Zuko (and Iroh) also kinda prevents any emotional resolution or relationship growth.


The mechanic of the votes is a little awkward, particularly with the quick time limits (though that has many advantages certainly). + votes can be a little problematic. It's easy to have votes that seem great, then some + option ruins them (like a random joke to say Ozai sounded like Azulon, a pointless insult that wasn't even true at all). Conversely sometimes plans seem good, but have one dumb line, and there's no - option to remove it. Not sure of a way to fix this really.

I do feel like having Ozai make jabs that sure seemed directed right at the questers was a bit much.

Overall I definitely think you should continue (retcon or no). It's a really strong story, and the fact that people are taking it hard is probably because they are very invested.
no, kosm said that if we'd left after learning the lightning redirection, we'd have been fine.
 
I think I need to clarify... I really, really do want to continue this story, and I am not making any plans to abandon it. I know I'm coming across as very frustrated, and I am lol. I feel like I made a lot of mistakes in running this and it's just sort of turned into a mess. But I have no intention of abandoning the quest, I really am just trying to figure out how to move forward. And I'm very sorry I'm being very short with people right now, it's just a sort of stressful time atm. Thank you all for your patience.

I think having votes with narrative implications would prevent salt. Like have the vote be "tell iroh and then you get exiled or ave to run away* or "burn zuko and get emotionally broken".

No win votes feel really bad since they make voters feel powerless. If you include the consequences of no win votes in the vote itself it should alleviate some of the salt.

Quests run on collective bandwagoning so long term consequences of intrigue if not curtailed by in character behaviour can destroy quests.

Although 4th wall breaking Ozai didnt help.
 
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