Deep Red (Avatar: The Last Airbender)

[Great Greedy Guts]

This continues its reign as the best Avatar fanwork I'm aware of, I see. Having the players only interact via letters was a clever way to have them involved in the interlude without giving them/us agency over the other character directly, it worked really well, I think.

I'm curious if Kori will pass on Akane's thoughts about firebending to Takumi, since he thinks it's an anger thing, or if she'll keep all the letters' contents a secret...

This does fit, but then the actual countersign is a very specific sequence of moves that literally draws a white lotus out around it, and a call and response as part of that. So I think someone would notice that more than the opening move

Still, it works in the show so presumably no one is watching pai sho that much? And opening every time means no risk of missing out on someone, even if they got turned or recruited by someone else after oyu'd already met them.

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I assume that most people aren't even aware the White Lotus exists. Having a strange play in a strange game isn't all that impossible, and it might be a case of the end result being achievable through a number of different moves. So unless you watch every game someone plays, you're not likely to see the pattern even if they meet a fellow member in front of you, and even if you do watch all of one person's games you might still chalk it up to a sequence they're just especially fond of creating.

This is especially true if it's a decent-but-weird opener for determining your opponent's skill level, or something along those lines. That means opening the first game with it each time has a justifiable benefit for high level players on top of the actual message.

Hmm, so now we have piandao, Iroh, and mr.lao. Are there any other white lotus members weve seen that i'm forgetting?

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Unless we've met Jeong Jeong and I'm just forgetting, I don't think we've seen anyone in the quest that we know to be a member. The only other named members from the show are Bumi and Pakku, and I think we'd remember meeting either of them.

 

[discerning likes]

I especially liked how big you've made Akane, even so far away, she's still in control

 

[Sinarblood]

Wow, the White Lotus are on the ball when it comes to their attempts at influencing Akane, and they're doing it so subtle too. Unlike canon, it seems like Iroh knows Akane isn't a lost cause like Azula or Ozai were.

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It is very easy to see why.

Akane made a speech declaring everyone in the Colony of Yu Dao a citizen of the fire nation, and very much didn't go overboard with her retribution for her assassination attempt.

Plus she has shown from a young age an interest in not only other bending styles but the philosophy behind them, else she wouldn't have mastered lightning so young. That part having been specifically encouraged by Iroh.

Which are two huge pluses over Azula or Ozai just there.

Not to mention that if Iroh ever saw Akane's letters to Lu Ten:

Please be sure to take what time you can to appreciate the beauty around you, cousin. You have been away at war very long, and I would not have you forget your eye for art and your love of nature before you return home. The Earth Kingdom sounds like a truly beautiful land; I hope that we will be able to see it in peacetime someday soon.

With love,

Akane

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At the risk of sounding repetitive, please do keep yourselves safe. Making history is well and good, but I think that the day I first bent lightning or the day I heard of Ba Sing Se's wall being breached will not stick in my memory quite so much as the day when you and Uncle finally return home. The historians may disagree with my priorities, but I'm afraid I must stand by them. I can't wait to see you and Uncle again soon.

With love,

Akane

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Advocating art, recognizing the capacity for beauty in foreign land and outright preferring to see both Lu Ten and Iroh return home safe more than to have Ba Sing Se's walls fall.

Caring about family more than victory and oppression.

This isn't to mention that she is in a relationship with Mitsuko, the daughter of Piandao, who is a White Lotus member himself.

Mitsuko probably talks about Akane all the time.

In fact Piandao might very well be a greater font of knowledge on Akane for the White Lotus than Iroh has been.

and certainly as early as four years ago Piandao could tell that she was infatuated with Akane (Mitsuko interlude, there is a section dated 93 AC heavily implying he knew Mitsuko liked Akane before Mitsuko herself realized it.).

With the reciprocation of those feelings during Yu Dao that Piandao certainly was aware of, we also showed an open-mindedness that does not border on treason, but is treason in itself.

Though I honestly doubt that Piandao would share that fact with other White Lotus members, since that treason puts his daughter in danger.

Well there is definitely significant kickback against the idea of joining the White Lotus or becoming too involved with them by the playerbase (At least on Fiction.Live more than here on SV), Akane is probably more of an appealing prospect for firelord by the White Lotus than canon Zuko was.


Stepping away from that for a moment:

Sorting through lies and understanding what leads people to believe them is simply a part of my duties as princess; it is necessary to have empathy for the deceived, in order to best guide the Nation. I would encourage you to be patient with the misinformed, to hear what they have to say, and to be a calm voice of reason to correct them. Ignoring a lie can be just as dangerous as believing it; with patience and empathy, you can convince others to believe as you do, and prevent them from stepping onto a dangerous path to treason.

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Really hits hard when you realize that Akane has very much completely and utterly failed to sort through lies, and is the misinformed in this case.

If Kori finds out the truth of things before Akane does, it would be interesting to see her apply this outlook to help Akane overcome the lies she lives under.

 

[Killerflood]

What fraction of an Azulon was Azula at by the end of TLA?

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I would say about 3/4's of a table. Violently insane, but she broke down at the last minute so she loses points.

 

[Tranquil Zebra]

It is said that fervent nazis were above average in intelligence, as the system of excuses and justifications required a keen mind to keep straight. I have literally no idea if this is true, or just a rationalization of smart nazis existing, but I hope to see Akane realise the moral bankruptcy of the current regime and turn into a reformist instead of a conqueror. Peace won't be as easy as signing a treaty, though, as this is their Hundred Year War and World War 2 all at once. The English didn't even genocide a whole nation, and there is still a little beef between England and France. If the comet comes around before we assume power, we'll even get fire bombing and scorched earth tactics writ large!

 

[Jamie Roberts]

This does fit, but then the actual countersign is a very specific sequence of moves that literally draws a white lotus out around it, and a call and response as part of that. So I think someone would notice that more than the opening move

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Even then, isn't the object of Pai Sho to maneuver your pieces into harmonious positions, and your opponent's pieces in disharmonious ones? Depending on how points tally, and the way things look when two masters of the game go head to head, a giant lotus picture might be a natural result of two closely matched experts who can't quite beat each other and are possibly falling back on forcing a tie.

 

[kosm]

This has been a source of confusion in the quest chat for a bit, so I made a post there to clarify things and I thought I'd bring it over here too. It's about the whole reform school vs. labor camp thing. I'm going to make a threadmark for it since it's OOC information that might be useful - if there's any other posts I've made in the past that should be threadmarked as informational too, let me know!



In the homeland and in the colonies, an established part of the juvenile justice system is sending kids to reform schools. Reform schools are basically just juvies, they're not labor camps. The most severe reform schools put kids to work, sometimes in mines. Those reform schools are more common in the colonies; if you're in the homeland, you're not going to get sent to a school like that unless you're a serious offender. Poor kids, and kids who have mixed or full EK ancestry, are much more likely to get sent to more severe reform schools if they act out/commit crimes. Still, the reform schools do not work people to death or detain them indefinitely. They're just juvies.

The labor camps are a separate issue. Historically, the Fire Nation has put POWs to work at times doing simple labor. Now, Ozai is rounding up more and more people from the conquered territories into more and more forced labor camps. These have nothing to do with the reform schools. But Durjaya, the EK assassin, claimed that his brother got shipped off to a labor camp instead of or after being sent to a reform school.

 

[Ulrad]

Another thing that was brought up that it is entirely possible that a corrupt local official abused their power to be more or less lenient on people than they legally should, which is a problem every country in history deals with. In the same vein we have no idea what the guy did so for all we know he tried to kill somebody and was sent on, or he decided to join up with another cell after being released, or he was killed by EK agents to fuel their propaganda, all is possible. Biggest takeaway from this though is that reform school =/= labor camp and at least legally you won't get sent to a labor camp at all on the mainland and only for very serious stuff in the colonies.

 

[Mglakoe]

Interesting... The question is for me, how exactly is the cannon pre-show events with Zuko going to be handled now? Zuko isn't really the potential heir in this case, so its more likely for the princess to be the one in trouble, but I don't think shed ever jeopardize her position by speaking out in public like that.

 

[Antix_Shadows]

Interesting... The question is for me, how exactly is the cannon pre-show events with Zuko going to be handled now? Zuko isn't really the potential heir in this case, so its more likely for the princess to be the one in trouble, but I don't think shed ever jeopardize her position by speaking out in public like that.

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Who Knows? It's been talked about, but we haven't reached that part of canon yet.

 

[pedanterrific]

Historically, the Fire Nation has put POWs to work at times doing simple labor. Now, Ozai is rounding up more and more people from the conquered territories into more and more forced labor camps.

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So, the concept of sending prisoners in the colonies to labor camps is less than two years old? I guess that explains why Kori reacted so strongly to someone just asking if the camps existed at all, rather than anything more specific about the conditions.

But then, what did they used to do with prisoners, under Azulon? I would have naturally assumed the criminal justice system revolved around penal labor, given the general culture. Did they used to just apply the death penalty to everything like Georgian England, or was it mostly corporal punishment...?

 

[kosm]

No, the practice of using prisoners for labor has existed for a while historically, but Ozai is rounding up people more and more people in the conquered territories who haven't committed crimes to use them as forced labor.

 

[tenchifew]

So, the concept of sending prisoners in the colonies to labor camps is less than two years old? I guess that explains why Kori reacted so strongly to someone just asking if the camps existed at all, rather than anything more specific about the conditions.

But then, what did they used to do with prisoners, under Azulon? I would have naturally assumed the criminal justice system revolved around penal labor, given the general culture. Did they used to just apply the death penalty to everything like Georgian England, or was it mostly corporal punishment...?

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No, the way I read it, the camps existed for genuine offenders for quite some time.

What Ozai is doing, is to greatly broaden this, including encarcerating people who certainly did not commit crimes deserving to put them into camps.

Edit:
Ninja'd by author.

 

[Abyssinian]

Everyone agrees the labor camps will be a disaster. Since we can't directly countermand our father the Fire Lord, we would have to combat them indirectly.

If we team up with Osamu, we can form our own version of the East India Company. (I guess we can call it the East Colonial Company.) It would be a government charted and sanctioned organization, but operationally and administratively independent of the Fire Nation government.

It's stated goal would be the resource extraction, economic development, and the protection of trade routes in the colonies. It shouldn't be too hard to showcase how paid laborers are far more productive than slave labor, and because Akane is head of said corporation (we should have a different public facing figurehead so it would not be so obvious and hide the connection), it shouldn't be difficult to convert at least some labor camps to corporate control and convert them to privatized, paid company towns. We can justify this as increasing resource extraction productivity and efficiency (which in itself is very important for the war effort).

Also, since technically we're a private corporation, it would be easier to hire former Earth Kingdom members as private security/garrisons. They might have issues working directly for their new oppressors, but might have an easier time with a private corporation; after all, there is never a shortage of young people looking for a steady paycheck. This would benefit the Fire Nation increasing colonial security and freeing up loyal Fire Nation units so they can be focused on the front line. Also, former Earth Kingdom members would be better at policing their own population.

Also has a private corporation, we would be better suited to invest in colonial opportunities and try to make a good rate of return. Also, said investment will develop the colonies and improve stability and tax revenue.

Also on a more Machiavellian scale, we can engineer "crises" between the East Colonial Company and the Fire Nation Government were their interests diverge, so we make the East Colonial Company look independent; hiding the fact they are on the same side.

On the more offensive side, we can initiate trade with Earth Kingdom entities and make deals with them. Target the greedy and power-hungry among Earth Kingdom leaders. Make them compete for favorable deals, and utilize a divide-and-conquer approach. Favor the weaker side where we can make the difference, and establish dependency. Encourage increased privatization as a way to increase their wealth and kickbacks. Buyout resource extraction sites and workers and make them loyal to us. Secretly encourage instability, so we can bring in our own private security to protect our interests and protect theirs as well. When all is said and done, it'll be a corporate takeover. If done right and subtle enough, they would still keep their political positions, but we control the resources and the economy and they have little to no actual political power.

Also, since Ozai favors economics, he would be more impressed using a private corporation to aid control over the colonies and expand their influence outside of direct military force.

 

[RubberBandMan]

No, the practice of using prisoners for labor has existed for a while historically, but Ozai is rounding up people more and more people in the conquered territories who haven't committed crimes to use them as forced labor.

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Would it be correct to say that while the FN made use of civilians or POW's as they ended up in control of them in the past to get some extra economic gain out of them, Ozai has made a point to specifically round people up for the purpose of working in labor camps?


Reading between the lines it seems Ozai saw a resource not being exploited to it's full benefit, because the military leaders thought civilians as something not important, and was more focused on armies and land taken, treating civilians as serfs (something that came with the land you wanted) instead of a resource independent of the geography to be used.

 

[tenchifew]

Everyone agrees the labor camps will be a disaster. Since we can't directly countermand our father the Fire Lord, we would have to combat them indirectly.

If we team up with Osamu, we can form our own version of the East India Company. (I guess we can call it the East Colonial Company.) It would be a government charted and sanctioned organization, but operationally and administratively independent of the Fire Nation government.

It's stated goal would be the resource extraction, economic development, and the protection of trade routes in the colonies. It shouldn't be too hard to showcase how paid laborers are far more productive than slave labor, and because Akane is head of said corporation (we should have a different public facing figurehead so it would not be so obvious and hide the connection), it shouldn't be difficult to convert at least some labor camps to corporate control and convert them to privatized, paid company towns. We can justify this as increasing resource extraction productivity and efficiency (which in itself is very important for the war effort).

Also, since technically we're a private corporation, it would be easier to hire former Earth Kingdom members as private security/garrisons. They might have issues working directly for their new oppressors, but might have an easier time with a private corporation; after all, there is never a shortage of young people looking for a steady paycheck. This would benefit the Fire Nation increasing colonial security and freeing up loyal Fire Nation units so they can be focused on the front line. Also, former Earth Kingdom members would be better at policing their own population.

Also has a private corporation, we would be better suited to invest in colonial opportunities and try to make a good rate of return. Also, said investment will develop the colonies and improve stability and tax revenue.

Also on a more Machiavellian scale, we can engineer "crises" between the East Colonial Company and the Fire Nation Government were their interests diverge, so we make the East Colonial Company look independent; hiding the fact they are on the same side.

On the more offensive side, we can initiate trade with Earth Kingdom entities and make deals with them. Target the greedy and power-hungry among Earth Kingdom leaders. Make them compete for favorable deals, and utilize a divide-and-conquer approach. Favor the weaker side where we can make the difference, and establish dependency. Encourage increased privatization as a way to increase their wealth and kickbacks. Buyout resource extraction sites and workers and make them loyal to us. Secretly encourage instability, so we can bring in our own private security to protect our interests and protect theirs as well. When all is said and done, it'll be a corporate takeover. If done right and subtle enough, they would still keep their political positions, but we control the resources and the economy and they have little to no actual political power.

Also, since Ozai favors economics, he would be more impressed using a private corporation to aid control over the colonies and expand their influence outside of direct military force.

Click to shrink...

This might have had a chance of working, were Ozai not an absolute control freak already spying on Akane and trying to control everything she does.

Besides, he likes to very much be an absolute ruler.

Anything as independent as East Indian Trading Company has been would be cut off at the knees by him.

I honestly do not see an alternative to outright killing him, the earlier the better.

 

[Abyssinian]

This might have had a chance of working, were Ozai not an absolute control freak already spying on Akane and trying to control everything she does.

Besides, he likes to very much be an absolute ruler.

Anything as independent as East Indian Trading Company has been would be cut off at the knees by him.

I honestly do not see an alternative to outright killing him, the earlier the better.

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It's not true independence, it's the illusion of such. Think of it as expanding influence and control in an additional way. Also a way to both establish direct control over the Tanaka family, while expanding their holding to increase the direct and indirect control over the economy and colonies.

But you do have a point that Ozai prefers direct brutality over subtlety. But I don't think killing him will be as easy as just saying it. We would probably have to conspire with Iroh to have enough combat power to pull it off, which would be difficult with the amount of surveillance he's probably under.

 

[LordVile]

The Freemasonry equivalent in the Avatar World.

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More like the Illuminati in conspiracy theories.
They have

• Agents highly placed inmost governments.
• Are composed of highly educated people.
• Try to influence the growth of society at large.
• Have a secret handshake.
• Have a rite of initiation.

The only thing they do not seem to have is any sort ofthirst for power for it's own sake.
eg.
Bumi's reason for being king.
Someone has to do it and there is literally nobody else.

 

[RadiantPhoenix]

Really hits hard when you realize that Akane has very much completely and utterly failed to sort through lies, and is the misinformed in this case.

If Kori finds out the truth of things before Akane does, it would be interesting to see her apply this outlook to help Akane overcome the lies she lives under.

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Akane knows about the forced labor programs and the culling of the elderly and disabled, and is unhappy with them. It came up in part one of Sunrise Mirage (chapter 4) and part one of Overcast Skies (chapter 5), when she sat in the war councils.

 

[RoninSword]

The other issue is if Akane is too young when she gets rid of Ozai. Too young means that most people will likely view her as a figurehead. She needs to have something to prove that she deserves the actual power of sitting on the throne.

 

[tenchifew]

The other issue is if Akane is too young when she gets rid of Ozai. Too young means that most people will likely view her as a figurehead. She needs to have something to prove that she deserves the actual power of sitting on the throne.

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Ideally would also be for the upper administration and generals to become disillusioned in Ozai and actually to desire a new ruler, but if I remember canon correctly Ozai was weirdly popular in Fire Nation up until the end.

 

[RoninSword]

Ideally would also be for the upper administration and generals to become disillusioned in Ozai and actually to desire a new ruler, but if I remember canon correctly Ozai was weirdly popular in Fire Nation up until the end.

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Ozai removed those who directly opposed him. Any officials who are still around who don't agree with him don't agree with him loudly.

 

[Abyssinian]

The other issue is if Akane is too young when she gets rid of Ozai. Too young means that most people will likely view her as a figurehead. She needs to have something to prove that she deserves the actual power of sitting on the throne.

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As I mentioned, Iroh would be the ideal ally in killing Ozai.

Ideally would also be for the upper administration and generals to become disillusioned in Ozai and actually to desire a new ruler, but if I remember canon correctly Ozai was weirdly popular in Fire Nation up until the end.

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They probably support Ozai's brutality. A lot of people in the Fire Nation believe the propaganda that conquering the entire world is their right and that they are superior.

 

[Cariyaga]

As I mentioned, Iroh would be the ideal ally in killing Ozai.

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I'm not sure we'd get much help from Iroh in murdering his brother.

 

[tenchifew]

I'm not sure we'd get much help from Iroh in murdering his brother.

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This.
Iroh was extremely reluctant to go against him, understandable, since he is not a sociopath like Ozai.

I am also very worried what it might do to Akane's mental health to go against her father, and maybe waiting till he forces her hand is the way to go, despite the problems it will bring in the meantime.