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Deep Red (Avatar: The Last Airbender)

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For my two cents, as long as things progress in a consistent and reasonable manner as they have, I don't really care how the story ends. Heel-face turn into canon, Unrepentant Tyrant, Fire Nation Civil War, etc. As long as we get there with the same excellent quality writing, I'm happy.
 
Cetashwayo said:
There is no Akun hivemind that has total control over quest direction. Again, you have no monopoly over quest direction forever.
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'Akun hivemind'? Please don't out group me. The questers have consistently voted for pro imperialism- it's the general direction, and dictatorship is a pretty heavily ingrained aspect of Akane's character by this point.


NemoMarx said:
I don't actually think Kosm is writing the quest about being evil for a noble goal either. I think it's about how your culture and surroundings shape your thoughts, and how to break out of that, like we've been doing with homophobia.
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Maybe both? Trying to make the best of a bad situation, and ultimately it not being enough? Fits well with the struggles with homophobia, as well as Akane's desire to 'improve things like the fire nation Labour policies.

Not necessarily breaking out, but how it can shape who you become, and trying to improve upon the next gen.
 
Cetashwayo said:
There is no Akun hivemind that has total control over quest direction. Again, you have no monopoly over quest direction forever.
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You're interpreting it wrong when I just said the majority over there likes the path its taking right now. No one said Anonkun was a collective. I don't think anyone can in any possible way have a monopoly on what path a quest takes.
Saying that SVers vote there as well doesn't really matter much. Anonkun has communities voting there from all over the Internet.

Shadow Archon said:
For my two cents, as long as things progress in a consistent and reasonable manner as they have, I don't really care how the story ends. Heel-face turn into canon, Unrepentant Tyrant, Fire Nation Civil War, etc. As long as we get there with the same excellent quality writing, I'm happy.
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That's my stance as well. Although, even if the current path we're taking isn't really my go-to choice. It is rather entertaining to read and I'm supporting it right now.
 
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WinterLantern said:
Cool? The quest is well written and about and being evil for a noble goal. For it to end the same as canon would be kinda shit, and it's been fun to read despite being baddies? Like what, sabotage it cos you don't like the purpose of the quest? It's wrong yeah, but that's kind of the interest of it.
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Ah, going for the old "people voting for other options than my own is sabotage!" argument.

Your path is not the only valid path and just because a majority (if it's even a majority) agreed to a single course of action, that doesn't mean the rest of us have to vote in line with you.

You want to go Full Imperialisttm​? Fine, vote for whatever you want. But don't start complaining about other voters daring to vote for something else.
 
Terran Imperium said:
In war, there are inevitable losses. A war will result in the loss of lives whenever innocent or not.
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Terran Imperium said:
The problem itself wouldn't be the Fire Nation. If you want to get rid of war; you'll have to get rid of nations and to do that would result in an anarchy...
If it isn't going to be the Fire Nation, then it could be the Earth Kingdom....
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As frequently pointed out in the Animorphs series; yes, war is bad. Yes people on both sides of war do bad things. But in this situation the fault, all of the fault, lies with the colonizing aggressor who started this in the first place. If the Fire Nation didn't want bad things to happen in a war, they damn well shouldn't have invaded the rest of the planet.

Maturely acknowledging that there are plenty of, say, Earth Kingdom war criminals, doesn't do a single thing to mitigate the Fire Nation's responsibility for making those war criminals possible in the first place.
 
Jamie Roberts said:
As frequently pointed out in the Animorphs series; yes, war is bad. Yes people on both sides of war do bad things. But in this situation the fault, all of the fault, lies with the colonizing aggressor who started this in the first place. If the Fire Nation didn't want bad things to happen in a war, they damn well shouldn't have invaded the rest of the planet.

Maturely acknowledging that there are plenty of, say, Earth Kingdom war criminals, doesn't do a single thing to mitigate the Fire Nation's responsibility for making those war criminals possible in the first place.
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Of course. Never said that it justified the FN's actions, that it excused their actions or anything like that. Tyran said they wanted to bring an end to wars and the sufferings they bring. It was a rather broad statement by which I argued that no one would be capable of doing reasonably and I justified why.
 
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Learning from Iroh isn't the same as following him in everything.

Not going all-in on expansion isn't the same as not expanding isn't the same as contracting.

Preparing for the plausible event of a particularly talkative Avatar showing up wanting to talk isn't the same as attempting to contrive a meeting isn't the same as dropping everything and running off to join his traveling show.
 
Terran Imperium said:
Of course. Never said that it justified the FN's actions, that it excused their actions or anything like that. Tyran said they wanted to bring an end to wars and the sufferings they bring. It was a rather broad statement by which I argued that no one would be capable of doing reasonably and I justified why.
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I only said that war is bad, you are the one that come up with the whole "conquering the world to end all wars".
Terran Imperium said:
So what kind of solution is there? A unified government and the same conclusion Akane came up with a few updates back and according to her beliefs, the conquest of the world and the brief losses and wars resulting from it would be acceptable if in the end; the world would be at peace and unified under her rule.
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Tyran said:
I only said that war is bad, you are the one that come up with the whole "conquering the world to end all wars".
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Its pretty obvious. You're having a problem with what the Fire Nation is doing. Which is war.
Tyran said:
The problem isn't the colonies, the problem is the Fire Nation trying to conquer the world.
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I pointed out that getting rid of the Fire Nation wouldn't solve it since there'll be someone to replace them and that only two solutions exist: Anarchy or a United government.
 
Just some of my thoughts:

Akane is still pretty young, and she's getting a better understanding of the Colonies/former Earth Kingdom lands. She already sees the flaws of Ozai's policies. Akane's policies will be far more kinder and gentler, geared towards winning hearts and minds and COIN.

The relationship with the Avatar will be different, depending if we offed Ozai or not.
  • If we haven't, then the Avatar would be a useful tool to destabilize the Fire Nation and to build up our powerbase such that we can either directly off the Fire Lord, or manipulate events such that we're his successor once the Avatar takes Ozai down and we look like a far more reasonable alternative.
  • If Ozai has been deposed, then yes, the Avatar would be our principle enemy against Fire Nation Imperialism. However, Akane lacks the sheer obsession in chasing down the Avatar as other members do like possible future Zuko for example, and Akane has enough subtlety to avoid relying on violence as the very first move.
In either case, Akane already has a very strong curiosity about Air Nomad culture and techniques. (On a slight tangent, some time I want Akane to lead an archaeological expedition to one of the former Air Nomad temples.) Akane already meditates a lot and will have an easier time understanding Aang's POV, like for example he's clearly a pacifist. After a couple of encounters, it shouldn't be too hard to establish a dialog with the Avatar. (It'll be even easier if Uncle Iroh helps us). And considering Anonkun is rarely full muderhobo, most anon's would be interested in alternatives to a full conflict with the Avatar, especially since Akane would be fully aware of the Avatar's martial strength, especially his Avatar state.
 
Random Member said:
Creating a world government won't exactly limit the scale. It'll basically ensure that all civil wars turn into world wars.
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That's a good point, but I have literally no idea what would happen because nobody has ever conquered the world before. There probably isn't really a way out of the death spiral the fire nation triggered. In Akane's perspective, the idea is to achieve world peace through conquest, but yeah I doubt that. The scale of Avatar, there only being 5 'nations' (Northern and Southern water tribes, Earth, Fire, Air) means that pretty much any major conflict is going to be a 'world' war regardless.

At this point in the war, peaceful unification is very likely not possible, and we know that even if the fire nation lose, Earth kingdom is gonna go to shit in Korra, and the Southern and Northern water tribes are gonna have beef. Dammit globalisation?

What do?
 
Terran Imperium said:
Do you have any better ones? The only thing I'm seeing is that if there isn't any country for there to be war in the first place or a united government. It's not like it can go to war with itself, right?
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a world government forged by brutal conquest is not going to end wars. it just means the next big war will be civil in nature. Just like in the long view everyone is going to die, in the long term there will always be war. we should be aiming to push the next war as far into the future as we can.

holding onto as much of the earth kingdom as we can reliably hold and assimilate and then leveraging our technological edge into economic hegemony would be less likely to result in a massive bloody civil war within a generation.
 
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Ya know, I always wondered how they consider it balanced when the Earth kingdom clearly has a majority or at least a large plurality of territory and population of the world. I think for balance they should have to divvy some of that off to the other nations.
 
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Antix_Shadows said:
Ya know, I always wondered how they consider it balanced when the Earth kingdom clearly has a majority or at least a large plurality of territory and population of the world. I think for balance they should have to divvy some of that off to the other nations.
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Because they are the least united and worst ruled of the 4 elemental ethnic groups. At least the Air Nomads had a common philosophy to unite them.
 
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Terran Imperium said:
Do you have any better ones? The only thing I'm seeing is that if there isn't any country for there to be war in the first place or a united government. It's not like it can go to war with itself, right?
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There are no real solutions. Both global conquest and anarchy are pipe dreams that will have a heavy price in blood.

It is that price in blood that I have a problem with. War will always be a problem, and the most we can do is to minimize it.
 
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Some of us like tragedy, and think Akane struggling through to rule the Fire Nation and defeat Aang only to ultimately learn that she can't simply stomp all over the Earth Kingdom and expect them to love her for it would be pretty cool. Or simply failing somewhere along the way. There's a lot of ways that could turn out as a very good story.
 
The quest doesn't have a predetermined ending or set of endings, though I've given thought to how things could go for a variety of different paths. Akane can pursue conquest for the Fire Nation or end up trying to dismantle her ancestors' legacy. Either way, my goal is to make her more than just a copy of canon Azula or Zuko.

Aigloss said:
While that is true, majority of voices in chat want to reach "Sun Goddess" ending
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The whole "Sun Goddess" thing is sort of a major sidequest that'll culminate in gaining some sort of power or transformation. I don't want to spoil details but there's more than one way to accomplish this. It's not tied to any one ending or path.
 
Of course even in a quest where players control a blank-slate OC, eventually the character will gain enough personality that there comes a point where there are now options which are invalid as they are OOC.

I don't personally have any particular stake in this discussion, but I will say that the Sun...
kosm said:
The quest doesn't have a predetermined ending or set of endings, though I've given thought to how things could go for a variety of different paths. Akane can pursue conquest for the Fire Nation or end up trying to dismantle her ancestors' legacy. Either way, my goal is to make her more than just a copy of canon Azula or Zuko.



The whole "Sun Goddess" thing is sort of a major sidequest that'll culminate in gaining some sort of power or transformation. I don't want to spoil details but there's more than one way to accomplish this. It's not tied to any one ending or path.
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Goddess thing has some more information on it, apparently. I was going to say that it required at least some measure (read: massive amounts of) success personally at least, but it seems like kosm wants to make it something achieveable no matter what the players do.
 
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