Tyran
Blatant Product Placement (pro bono)
Nice attempt to deflect.
The problem isn't the colonies, the problem is the Fire Nation trying to conquer the world.
Deep Red (Avatar: The Last Airbender)
- Thread starter kosm
- Start date
The problem isn't the colonies, the problem is the Fire Nation trying to conquer the world.
Terran Imperium
[French]
- Location
- Southern France
The problem itself wouldn't be the Fire Nation. If you want to get rid of war; you'll have to get rid of nations and to do that would result in an anarchy. Which is what Zaheer wanted I believe. I'm not saying you're looking for the same thing that Zaheer wanted but trying to get rid of war entirely, you'll need to do that which would result in the next consequence I mentioned above.
If it isn't going to be the Fire Nation, then it could be the Earth Kingdom. In LoK; the Earth Kingdom's Queen was fairly ruthless and if she had gotten the opportunity. She would almost certainly start trying to conquer the world as the Fire Nation did. It's not like getting rid of Ozai would solve that since the protagonist herself, Akane wishes to conquer and rule the whole world and getting rid of Akane wouldn't solve it. Azula or Zuko have the same ambitions.
So what kind of solution is there? A unified government and the same conclusion Akane came up with a few updates back and according to her beliefs, the conquest of the world and the brief losses and wars resulting from it would be acceptable if in the end; the world would be at peace and unified under her rule.
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The Avatar is kind of an immortal force of political and literal landscape rearranging. Getting on his good side is pretty cheap compared to what it can give you.
Of course the problem of world conquest being pretty hard to reconcile with Air Nomad philosophy stands, but there's a lesson in our past that's worth taking: If we're trying to help people, and they don't want our help, we should go home.
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Tyran
Blatant Product Placement (pro bono)
This is nonsense. You do not get to justify war for global domination with "countries are bad because war is bad", fucking hypocrisy.
The problem is the Fire Nation, because the Fire Nation is waging war to the entire world.
Terran Imperium
[French]
- Location
- Southern France
Hey, chill. We're just discussing here. No need to get your pants lit on fire.
As I said; in a world like this. There is going to be wars for resources, religion, different beliefs or political reasons. Those cannot happen without there being countries and countries themselves existing in such a low-tech setting who doesn't yet consider that trade is more profitable than spending money on troops and warmongering. Its bound to happen.
Getting rid of the Fire Nation won't solve anything. Wait for a few years and then we'll have another country rising up trying to go to war for whatever reason. Just look at our own world history. It's not that hard of a conclusion to come up with, is it?
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Random Member
Gardener of Human Happiness
- Location
- Behind You
Hmm, what's the saying again? "Bombing for peace is like fucking for virginity"?
Yeah, if this is the route you guys take, Aang will have no qualms whatsoever about fighting the Fire Nation.
Which is fine really, I just hope nobody complains when he does, because that should've been really obvious.
Not like a unified government would actually prevent future war. The Earth Kingdom being one nation didn't stop Chin the Conqueror from starting a war to take over the place. The world being united under the Fire Nation won't prevent Chin #2 from rising up somewhere in the future.
Cetashwayo
Lord of Ten Thousand Years
- Location
- Across the Horizon
There is no evidence this situation existed before the FN, though. You are projecting historical experience into a fantasy setting where a god being can maintain peace for hundreds of years. Even though we have past examples of conquerers this is explicitly not the norm- the avatar steps in to stop this.
Shadow Archon
Protoss Preserver
- Location
- Louisiana
The problem is trying to convince the Avatar that letting things be is the best solution.
The same Avatar from a society that Akane's great grandfather committed genocide against. Who's also set on course to be best friends with Southern Water Tribe members who were witness to their society being grounded down into destitution by Fire Nation raids. Who will also be witness to the multitude of atrocities the Fire Nation has committed in the world as he travels from place to place. Not to mention the connection to all the past Avatars who had to deal with similar world-conquering tyrants, and can likely as a whole out-charisma Akane.
There's no way Akane's going to be able to talk Aang out of this without herself surrendering given the deck being incredibly stacked against her.
If it comes to a fight, this either delays the inevitable or lead to a global bad end. If Akane can put down Aang, it either will lead to the next Avatar being born in the Water Tribe with Aang to counsel them in spirit for them to try again, or the Avatar cycle itself will be destroyed if Akane can miraculously put down Aang during the Avatar State. Which means when Harmonic Convergence comes along in the next century, Evil Kite God is going to destroy everything.
If Akane opposes Aang, even if she wins, the ending for this story will not be a happy one.
Terran Imperium
[French]
- Location
- Southern France
Well, I never defended the Fire Nation's actions or Akane's beliefs. I just stated them and I just said that the FN alone is not really the problem itself. If you want to get rid of sufferings and wars which is what Tyran is all on about.
That's taking it idealistically. Avatars are humans being who can be influenced(Korra as an example) and apologies if I'm mistaken but I recall sometimes where it was mentioned some Avatars took sides or simply took over the entire world with their might.
Despite this being a fantastical setting, it is close enough to reality. They have nations, governments, humans who are capable of mistakes and bountiful lands everywhere. Assuming there was no war what so ever is a little bit of a stretch.
Exactly. I agree but Akane or the Fire Nation can be hardly blamed for that. They can't really see the future. Most of the playerbase is seeing things from Akane's perspective and how they want to do things.
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Tyran
Blatant Product Placement (pro bono)
Hypocrisy will always get my pants lit on fire, that's not negotiable.
And your solution to that problem is to try conquer the world? Nonsense. War is bad, war for global dominion is bad, war for global peace is not only bad, but insanity.
And the Avatar will hammer down the next country that tries that nonsense, it is literally their job's description.
And the peace lasted 70 years in canon, and even then the next war wasn't a global affair.
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Cetashwayo
Lord of Ten Thousand Years
- Location
- Across the Horizon
This is not theory. Canon is quite explicit about the long periods of peace under past Avatars. Yangchen created peace durable enough to be mostly maintained by the next avatar, Kyoshi did the same for Roku. What evidence is there for Avatars conquering the world?
Terran Imperium
[French]
- Location
- Southern France
Also! Not necessarily. An imperialistic Avatar could be the one trying to counsel the next avatar to go along with the current Fire Nation's plans.
I'm not sure what the requirements are for a previous Avatar to appear as a Spirit or in the current Avatar's dream, though.
You also are in a forum where civilized people talk. When you signed up here, you're obligated to follow its rules and be polite. Even without the rules, there is something called basic courtesy. Please. There is no need to get heated.
I never said it was my solution or my ideas/beliefs. I just stated what Akane is currently trying to do and her goals.
Apart from it not covering the entirety of ten millennia since Avatar Wan? It's definitely up to theory.
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Shadow Archon
Protoss Preserver
- Location
- Louisiana
Honestly, the most recent previous incarnation seems to gain the most time to advise the current Avatar.
With Aang, that's Roku. With Korra, that's Aang. When Aang seeked counsel of further Avatars beyond Roku, he proceeded linearly: Kyoshi, Kuruk, and then Yangchen.
All of those guys were anti-Fire Nation, and were fully suggesting Aang should kill Ozai to end the war, even if it goes against his own morals as his duty to be the Avatar. If Aang fails, he'll be the primary adviser for the next Avatar from what we've seen.
Ok, so after an hour of editing and debating, coupled with some sketchbook fun, I've managed to put together a couple of hypothetical flags for the Fire Nation Colonies in the Earth Kingdom. As we gradually expand our administration there, I found it fitting for us to give these regions their own flags as well. The colors are designed to be a fusion of Earth Kingdom green and gold with the black and red of the Fire Nation. I did the base flag design and some of the color work.
Credit to all of the Anons over on AnonKun who contributed, plus that one guy's particular shade of gold, as well as @Antix_Shadows, @Redshirt Army, and Graham.
Edit: Also I think I got the first Fan Art post for Deep Red! Go me!
Thanks S-159A1! I like the gold, it's very sunny
Her motivation was, in large part, to get back the land that was taken from the Earth Kingdom even after the Fire Nation was defeated. The Fire Nation, as the aggressor, does largely bear responsibility for the cycle of violence unleashed by its actions.
I don't think the God/Devil kites will be canon here because I really don't like that version of the Avatar world's spiritual system. But it's still important to be cautious about trying to permanently destroy the Avatar. It's a powerful spiritual being, and while it may not be as fundamental a part of the world as something like the moon, destroying it would still be a major upheaval to the world's balance.
- Location
- United Kingdom
Is Avatar Wan still canon here? Because he was great.
Also, I'm really liking the quest so far. The way you write children feels pretty damn realistic, particularly when it comes to their thought processes (like Akane's blindspots and the like). Plus you manage to incorporate write-ins in such a way that the character still feels consistant.
Tyran
Blatant Product Placement (pro bono)
Calling hypocrisy what it is when I read it is being civilized. Maybe I went overboard by writing "fucking hypocrisy", but your argument, the entire concept of war for peace, is well documented hypocrisy.
Akane has spent her entire life eating propaganda and misinformation. She is not going to keep her false worldviews once she is actually interacting with the world, specially when she has a personal stake (her sexuality).
Terran Imperium
[French]
- Location
- Southern France
That's entirely true. Although, rather than her justifications, I was more speaking about her overall personality and mentioned that if she had gotten the opportunity to start conquering everyone. She would have done so. Of course, this is just assumptions based on what I saw from her personality and I may be wrong.
Look, if you're going to be like that. I see no point in furthering any conversation with you lest it gets worse.
WinterLantern
Smoked bird
- Location
- North England
I think y'all need to look at the discusiion on Anonkun aka fiction.live, where the quest is based. It's pretty clear we're going to fight Aang- we've been building up very deliberately as a very pro imperial character.
Akane, ultimately, will likely the major baddy at the end of Avatar. There isn't any way to justify the fire nation to Aang, because it's super shitty, and I really doubt Akane is ever going to defect considering her main ambition is the fire nation conquest of the world. Blinkers off please.
But because this is from the perspective of Akane, the quest is meant to have a 'us and them' mentality, and we should be planning on how to defeat the avatar, conquer evrything, then make sure the spirirt world doesnt go to shit by ascending into a immortal sun god
Akane, ultimately, will likely the major baddy at the end of Avatar. There isn't any way to justify the fire nation to Aang, because it's super shitty, and I really doubt Akane is ever going to defect considering her main ambition is the fire nation conquest of the world. Blinkers off please.
But because this is from the perspective of Akane, the quest is meant to have a 'us and them' mentality, and we should be planning on how to defeat the avatar, conquer evrything, then make sure the spirirt world doesnt go to shit by ascending into a immortal sun god
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- Location
- Somewhere!
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I vote there too, and honestly I'd rather see us Bad End to Aang than do that. It doesn't sound fun to read and I'm not sure it'd be fun to write Akane conquering the world and ensuring suffering for generations.
Cetashwayo
Lord of Ten Thousand Years
- Location
- Across the Horizon
Nobody has ownership of what happens next. Many SVers vote on Anonkun as well. There is no set plan.
WinterLantern
Smoked bird
- Location
- North England
Cool? The quest is well written and about and being evil for a noble goal. For it to end the same as canon would be kinda shit, and it's been fun to read despite being baddies? Like what, sabotage it cos you don't like the purpose of the quest? It's wrong yeah, but that's kind of the interest of it.
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Terran Imperium
[French]
- Location
- Southern France
What I've been trying to say for a little while now. Anonkun was building up for this for like 80k words now; I don't see any reason for them to give up on that.
Of course, not everyone likes that sort of thing but the majority wins. That's just how Quests work.
Personally, I would have preferred an economic victory but I'm fine with this imperialistic path too. It is extremely entertaining to read and we see rarely villainous protagonists being written well and not just cringe edgy.
RoninSword
Sky God
- Location
- Canada
I never said travel with Aang, but if the opportunity presents itself to talk to him when he only knows Akane is a firebender rather than royalty, I would take it.
- Location
- Somewhere!
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Well, obviously I'd rather have Akane defect from the fire nation and learn some things and get character development, instead of being pro imperalism for the entire quest. But I'd take canons ending over a bad end, if it comes down to literally those options.
I don't actually think Kosm is writing the quest about being evil for a noble goal either. I think it's about how your culture and surroundings shape your thoughts, and how to break out of that, like we've been doing with homophobia.
Cetashwayo
Lord of Ten Thousand Years
- Location
- Across the Horizon
There is no Akun hivemind that has total control over quest direction. Again, you have no monopoly over quest direction forever.