Carrnage
Human
- Location
- New Zealand
I mean not thinking that when someone claims fallibility it's not an elaborate ruse to trick us when they do fail.
Cyberpunk 2077: Rockerboy Keanu Silverhand
- Thread starter inukai44
- Start date
- Megathread
Reveen
Castro-Trudeauist
If the game had more constrained immersive sim and/or FPS style level design I might have taken those sequences at more face value as represntative of the game as a whole
But it looks way more massive GTA style open world so unless its a very one off scripted sequence that shit probably isnt happening.
But it looks way more massive GTA style open world so unless its a very one off scripted sequence that shit probably isnt happening.
- Location
- The Hague
- Pronouns
- He/Him
You seem to be under the impression that I'm upset or angry, which is not the case. I'm not losing any sleep over Cyberpunk 2077, either. What I'm trying to get across to you is that while CDPR had their disclaimer on the video, the point of the video was to get people really invested in the game, regardless of the fact that some of the content in that game was not going to appear. That's a little deceptive. Not a lot, but a little.
Jensaarai
Sing Victory Everlasting
- Pronouns
- They/Them
I certainly feel bamboozled. Hell, at this point I'm half-expecting an announcement that the cybernetics and upgrades are all storyline and class determined, and you don't actually get to pick and choose what you want.
WireWolf
Sexy Gay God
Ah. My apologies.
I really fail to see how the game is a 'GTA style open world' game but it's also something I've heard a handful of times from different people.
Care to explain your thoughts on why you think CP2077 is a GTA clone?
Didn't mean to imply you were either.
But the problem I had with your statement is claiming that CDPR is deliberately being deceptive and that they are deliberately trying to 'trick' their audience. Despite the fact that they have continuously since the first time they showed any sort of gameplay to the viewing public that everything seen was a work in progress and subject to change.
The implication is that any announced gameplay feature (Even if not directly shown in gameplay material.) needs to be included in the game even if it doesn't work, breaks the game or even if it's impossible to implement given budgetary or time constraints because if it isn't then it's deceptive advertising just seems rather crazy.
Nice hysterics.
If CDPR for some reason actually did this then yes, this would be a rather shocking revelation and be so at odds with everything seen, shown and reported on prior to this point that it'd be fair to accuse CDPR of being willfully deceptive towards their audience and consumers, especially this close to launch.
It's also as likely as the sun not rising tomorrow morning.
The reality is a handful of minor gameplay features and mechanics were announced to have been cut for one reason or another. Some of which were given for good reason for getting left on the cutting room floor. And most of these were never even shown in gameplay demo's or proportionals to begin with.
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Jensaarai
Sing Victory Everlasting
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Is choosing cybernetics really a primary feature of the game though? Because I only recall maybe one instance where we actually got to see the process, and there might have been a shop screen of sorts.
And given some articles that I can find on the subject specifically say that the Flathead was going to be the Techie's companion throughout the game, and yet now that and the class itself have been pulled, it's not exactly unprecedented territory that the ability to choose prosthetics goes too.
WireWolf
Sexy Gay God
Considering their's multiple sourcebooks loaded with everything from Cyberware to Bioware? Yes. The ability to load your character down with whatever 'ware you find useful was a pretty big thing in the tabletop.
And yes there was a shopscreen with multiple different modifications shown in the old 2018 demo.
And we've seen multiple different aug's being used.
Like the Mantis Blade Arms or the mini-missile popup cyberweapon as well as official stuff on how the system functions. (Including turning Humanity Cost/Empathy loss not being a thing as it pertains to V.) Heck. Nudity was a thing they wanted to use in the game to begin with to really show off how your character's appearance changes when you start bolting a lot of cybernetics to your character. It'd be beyond bizarre to pull choosing between different cybernetics from the game.
Also the Techie Class hasn't been pulled.
Players select abilities/perks from Solo, Netrunner and Techie trees and are free to mix and match to their hearts content. (Heck, Drones aren't even a Core element to the Techie class in the tabletop. Rules for Drones and stuff weren't added till Chromebook 2.)
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- Location
- Georgia, US
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Yes, it is? Cybernetics have been emphasized since day 01, it's a massive part of the cyberpunk aesthetic and seems to be core to this setting.
Compare it to the things that have been removed, some robot, and car customization. Those... are not major features from a marketing or genre perspective.
It strains logic to seriously argue that they would de-emphasize the cybernetic feature.
Jensaarai
Sing Victory Everlasting
- Pronouns
- They/Them
I didn't know of any tabletop game, but given drones and robots for players were apparently a thing in Cyberpunk 2020, and yet they pulled the Flathead companion, you can imagine I'm a bit fucking skeptical of this claim that something from the tabletop is automatically assumed to be in the game. But honestly, I think you've been misreading what I've written, since I don't recall having said anywhere that they might remove the entire concept of cybernetics, and I'd be shocked if you can actually pull a quote by me saying that, but rather if you'll have the ability to choose your cybernetics however you want, instead of them being chosen by your class tree and through the main storyline. That's what I was talking about as a possible thing to get removed by CDPR, if we're really going forward with dismissing any concerns or complaints with "work in progress" and "you can't expect everything advertised and shown to actually be in the game." Is choosing cybernetics, removed from class and skills, a main feature of the game, or is it just another side feature?
Lastly, I was apparently wrong that this game isn't doing distinct classes, so I'll admit that failing.
I mean, according to the people who got time with it, it does happen as part of the prologue.
WireWolf
Sexy Gay God
Rules for robots and drones were a thing added to the game later through one of the later equipment books
While they were an interesting feature to the tabletop they were never a 'core' feature to any of the classes and were merely an option a number of classes had available to them.
The ultimate problem is that some of the core elements to the Drones in the tabletop don't translate over very well to a videogame. And apparently the stuff that was able to make the transition (Hacking via the Drone.) Was deemed to similiar enough to the core Hacking mechanics as to be superfluous, hence why they dropped it.
While disappointing they couldn't make it work I'm not seriously bummed out by it. Drone gameplay afterall was never seen or shown to the viewing public so it's kinda hard getting too upset over a gameplay feature that's never been shown.
If they had enough time, money and manpower they probably could find a way to give Drones enough of a niche to be a useful and interesting gameplay mechanic and hell. They might be added later as DLC when they do have more manpower and time to make it work. (And hopefully money.)
And anyway as to your other point? It still comes out as pure hysterics.
Your arguements basically boils down to.
"If they could cut out a minor gameplay feature like Drones, they can also cut a core feature/mechanic of letting players choose their 'Ware!"
Which is frankly ridiculous.
Letting players go hog wild on bolting chrome to their flesh if they have the eddies is not only a core gameplay feature but a huge thematic conceit of the world itself. (Not to mention they've also announced No/Low Aug runs being possible and described it as trying to live in NYC without a cellphone.)
It's one thing to be disappointed when a neat little feature that was slated to be in the game is cut, but this reaction is just over the top.
Heck, if it were a core gameplay mechanic or feature getting cut that'd then it would legit be a huge complaint and a reason to be really upset.
Car customization isn't a core component.
Wall running isn't a core component.
Drones are not a core component.
All nice things to have in the game certainly. But them not being in the game certainly doesn't hurt it or make the overall core experience any less.
But trying to legitimately argue that these cuts are a concerted effort to 'bamboozle' audiences and if these things could be cut so can core gameplay mechanics and features THIS close to launch is asinine.
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I must admit, many dicks do live rent free in my head. Though I am not straight.
.Honestly, no working for corps shouldn't give a cushy setup. It should give you a shallow grave because the corps are soulless consumption machines that don't value you and either send you to your death, or kill you themselves as a cost cutting measure.
A corp path doesn't work where you live and prosper, as it undercuts the point of the setting. And is also against realism of late stage capitalist systems.
An edgerunner is most emphatically not a wage slave, they're an outside contractor of the "specialized skills that are extremely expensive to keep on permanent payroll" sort, rather than the "we don't want to be responsible for them in any way" sort.
I mean, as a job corporate espionage will probably kill you pretty dead, but it pays well until it does, and 'kills you dead' might take a while if you're good.
corporations today burn people with highly specialized skills all the time, much less in the even more cyberpunk dystopia
And alot of people live very comfortable life's employed by large corporations without feeling like they are employed by soulcrushing machines that don't value them. I have quite a few friends who opted for more "profitable" career choices than I did and let me tell you that in my experience they aren't exactly despairing of their life or feel/are misused by their cooperate overlords. And while I am unsure if they are that much happier than I, who opted for a less exhausting job with no real aspirations of climbing the cooperate ladder, they are certainly better of financially than I am and enjoy quite the nice life.
Good for them.
They are also eminently disposable and their job security is actually minimal.
And that's sort of the point to highlight in CYBERPUNK. It would be a shitty cyberpunk game if you got to live the cooshy corporate life because the corporation just so happened to not decide you were redundant, which, today, they can do at any time. Or, worse, you become one of the execs who get to grift the corporate dime while rendering a hundred jobs non existent so that the quarterly balance looks a bit better.
It undercuts the whole setting to be one of the lucky ones who never has their position eliminated.
TheColorPurple
I'm purple lol
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*Shrugs* I don't think this should turn into a political discussion, but honestly? Every guy that works at a job that I've known had it rough though I've so far only worked at minimum-wage jobs. That said, every one of them had experience and university degrees. They were much older than I was and the bosses were either cold or harsh or callous. Also, they had ways of getting more out of you or making you work more without the pay that you were owed.
Of course, I'm on my way to getting my university degree so perhaps I'll get lucky and find a nice cushy job working at - best case scenario - RT or Sputnik (yes, I want to be a journalist, but my degree has other jobs I can be) but I'd be disappointed if Cyberpunk 2077 doesn't at least tackle such themes as what I described above. Honestly, it's a lot more "realistic" and "relatable" than "love" or "war" or what not.
13th Bee
Worker
- Location
- Tennessee, USA.
It should be noted that much of the cyberpunk genre dates to a time when corporations actually did the whole "work for us your entire career and we'll take care of you" thing, or at least planned to do it. Not everyone did it and they might not have done it for all of their employees, but the ones who were more valuable were actually pretty secure.
Van Ropen
Angry, angry about elves.
I'm not seeing the contradiction. I would certainly expect any corporate sell-out path to involve you being blatantly and flagrantly cast off at the corpos' whim. That doesn't mean it shouldn't pay well.
Even becoming an exec could be an interesting narrative, I'd just expect (because, as you said, cyberpunk) the narrative to rub the consequences and costs of your actions in your face. Not doing the latter would be a genre failure, the path itself existing wouldn't be.
Being able to become an actual exec would ruin the narrative. Execs aren't upjumped mercenaries. They aren't even valued employees. They are a class of their own. You don't get to be a CEO, you weren't born to the executive class (and this is a thing in real world). Indeed, you weren't born to the wageslave class (less a thing). You are scum of the underside of society to the corporations.
Van Ropen
Angry, angry about elves.
Executive doesn't mean just a handful of C-Suite, division heads, and shareholders. These are megacorps, there will be entire layers of people below them. And then middle management and trouble shooters below them.
But fine, call it the upjumped mercenary turned troubleshooting line manager path. This doesn't really change the essence of what we're talking about - "selling out, reaping the rewards, seeing the costs" is a perfectly valid narrative arc.
Sightedjt
Everlasting Flames
You can just say "I don't want there to be a valid corp path" without insisting that there is no way that a character can ever go down that route in the genre.
Like, stability is a rarity in the genre, and selling out to join into the corp is a valid way of getting it
Like, stability is a rarity in the genre, and selling out to join into the corp is a valid way of getting it
- Location
- The Void
Would like to mention that there is a "sell out" option in Cyberpunk 2020, you can sell out to a corporation or join the military and get more money for buying equipment/cybernetics.
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Mechasaurian
Big Bossu
- Location
- Lost among fields of history
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Personally, I think that taking the moral high road and fighting The Man rather than rebelling against him should be less rewarding in material terms.
If being good and just was easier and more materially rewarding, everyone would do it. Taking the moral high road isn't actually easy, and I think a game called "Cyberpunk" should reflect that.
If being good and just was easier and more materially rewarding, everyone would do it. Taking the moral high road isn't actually easy, and I think a game called "Cyberpunk" should reflect that.
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- Location
- Georgia, US
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Yeah, I don't think anything about a corp path is inherently anti-punk. Just makes it clear that doing so involves giving the boot to a number of people who really don't deserve it.
It should be viable but with very strong "you bastard" themes.