Long Way Down by Jason Reynolds, it's a good book. If you think revenge is great, read it. Revenge still is bleeding us and that's not a good thing.
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Cliches you can't stand
- Thread starter Mithras
- Start date
Mortis Nuntius
Theon Killjoy
- Location
- United Kingdom
Revenge and Feuding are quite often (probably even the majority of cases) not 1vs1 events.
A huge part of weak state societies is a concept of kinship and one in all in.
If someone wrongs you its not just you that is wronged and its not just the offender that is fair game for retaliation. Which can be either escalatory or de-escalatory depending on the situation.
A huge part of weak state societies is a concept of kinship and one in all in.
If someone wrongs you its not just you that is wronged and its not just the offender that is fair game for retaliation. Which can be either escalatory or de-escalatory depending on the situation.
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- Location
- Finland
Depends on society.
In modern times, generally calling the police or taking people to court.
Demanding weregild in olden times would have been one process.
Formal duels that are not to death was one very imperfect method.
When society fails to provide justice, people generally seek it out through other means, but as long as there is some semblance of judicial system that is not blatantly corrupt or otherwise unjust, it is the better path.
Omegahugger
Inattentive Idiot
The solution to the cycle of vengeance is obvious. Just make sure you kill all other humans as part of your revenge quest.
Boom, cycle broken, no sweat.
And as an added bonus, you are now legally allowed to style your hair like a Final Fantasy villain's.
Boom, cycle broken, no sweat.
And as an added bonus, you are now legally allowed to style your hair like a Final Fantasy villain's.
Zor
More of a Zor than You
Nope, you avoided the question. We know what a society where vengeance is the norm looks like and that it is self evidently a horrible place to live (generally not for long) because of that fact.
Zor
Jenny
anonymous user
- Location
- maryland
- Pronouns
- She/Her
This post brought to you by Big Coffinmakers.
Kingcrusader
The King of the Crusades
- Location
- Tennessee
Nope, I answered the question. It might not be the one you want to hear, but it's the one you got.
The bold part is the part that almost never gets mentioned when law is ever brought in anyway when revenge gets brought up.
All I'm saying that seeking revenge is fine. If you don't agree, fine, just don't insult me and call me a advocate for murder.
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Kadmus
Dragon's teeth are surprisingly hard to sow
- Location
- Devon
- Pronouns
- He/Him
...but that's literally what you're doing when you say revenge is fine? When you say revenge is fine, you are, in fact, saying 'murder is good, actually'?
Kingcrusader
The King of the Crusades
- Location
- Tennessee
No, not all. I never mentioned anything about murder.
- Location
- Russia
Revenge is murder.
Kingcrusader
The King of the Crusades
- Location
- Tennessee
Says who?
- Location
- boundless optimism
Vengeance is cool. Properly written out, it is a exercise in depicting heroic passions. You get the whole shebang, the motivation for sick action scenes, the ambiguity over the affair, what they feel about it in the end and how the MC deals with vengeance in kind. Gimmie that shit. I'll eat it up.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ns1ROoU-IWA
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ns1ROoU-IWA
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Zor
More of a Zor than You
Going out of your way to kill someone because "They Had It Coming" is a pretty open and shut definition of Murder.
Please note that Murdering a Murderer is Still Murder.
Zor
FelOnyx
Love and Peace!
- Location
- Gunsmoke
- Pronouns
- He/Him
The Tokugawa Shogunate did a very funny thing where you could petition for an official revenge license, and if granted you were allowed to track down and kill the target as long as the authorities didn't get to them first. (if you were a Samurai. Normal people were not allowed to get a government murder license) The target's relatives weren't allowed to get a their own revenge, so that's the cycle of violence solved.
It served to square the circle of "we want a central monopoly on violence, but our legitimacy comes from the "violent revenge over petty slights" class." They mostly granted these to avenge murders under specific conditions so it effectively served to ensure bounty hunters always had appropriately dramatic backstories.
It served to square the circle of "we want a central monopoly on violence, but our legitimacy comes from the "violent revenge over petty slights" class." They mostly granted these to avenge murders under specific conditions so it effectively served to ensure bounty hunters always had appropriately dramatic backstories.
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I assume they're often the same in the stories that this conversation was originally about.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
There are kinds of revenge short of murder. But it's not like those are all that much better, because you can still get the escalating revenge cycle.
Thozmp
Gets my kicks above the waistline, Sunshine.
I was in fact just thinking about this very scene. Rarely does the fact that the targets, or even those in the way of the targets, might have people that would themselves want revenge on the revenge seeker, come up in-story. Like, the Bride killed and maimed a lot of the Crazy 88, do their loved ones get a shot at revenge? Just Nikki? What about all the people she killed working for Bill, do their loved ones get a shot too?
- Location
- boundless optimism
Mooks don't rate.
Jokes aside if you're a bodyguard for a crime boss and someone guns after her and puts like most of you six feet under that's just like, job hazards, yeah? Also, like, what's the Bride supposed to do, stop fighting the other 87 to address the one almost dying guy? "Hey, I know y'all want to fillet me, but I gotta give my 'if you feel raw about it speech' to this guy." It's implicit, imo.
Kingcrusader
The King of the Crusades
- Location
- Tennessee
Sure, but that is one's own opinion upon it. It's not a fact to assume revenge is murder because one views them both as the same thing.
I mean, in A Practical Guide to Evil, in revenge for her mother being executed and her father being given a hefty fine, Theif steals 11 times the fine from taxes.
That's a perfectly reasonable revenge.
That's a perfectly reasonable revenge.
Is the debate over whether killing someone in certain circumstances falls under the definition of murder? Seems like things might have gotten a bit pedantic at some point.
I don't think there are any circumstances in which you could kill someone for revenge without it qualifying as murder. The motive rather makes the crime.
- Location
- Georgia, US
- Pronouns
- He/Him
This assumes that murder is an objective and quantifiable standard, but nothing could be further from the truth. "Murder" when it's not a legal definition is a moral one and thus just as subjective as anything else that has to do with morality.
Why would you assume the people in this thread aren't using the legal definition? It's pointless to discuss these things if everyone doesn't agree on such fundamental ideas as "what constitutes murder", so unless the OP opens with an alternate definition we're supposed to use for the purpose of the discussion it's natural to assume we're going with the most universal definition, the legal definition.
- Location
- Georgia, US
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I'm assuming we're not using the legal definition because that's dumb. Legal jurisdictions don't cover all of fiction.
The discussion has not been tied a single temporal period, assuming that there's a single legal definition is incoherent. If I challenge a man to a duel in 2024 America and kill him then legally I am a murderer, but if I challenge him to a duel and kill him in 1804 then it's not murder. Do you see the problem?