Should the world be a Low Fantasy setting?

  • Yes

    Votes: 63 70.0%
  • No

    Votes: 27 30.0%

  • Total voters
    90
  • Poll closed .
I''m referring to a different set of the rolls. Specifically the loss of international relations.

The decision there said :


Since the relationship effects were mentioned for 1 option, I went with the assumption that the relationship effects were consistently mentioned. This results in the conclusion that since no relationship effects are mentioned for any of the other options, that it's actually a fairly minor thing.

To illustrate with an example :

You see a menu
- Buy something
--[] Hamburger 10$ + 2$ cutlery
--[] Salad 5$
--[] Beef 7$

You do not expect a cutlery charge for the salad or the beef, because if it did exist, surely they would have mentioned it like they did for the beef.
It's a minor thing (still would have voted for taking the capital even if it would cause a minor relation drop), but with a vote this close it could have changed the result.
If we had not freed the Queen because we chose to continue fighting the evil Forluc, the penalty obviously wouldn't be so bad because it would have been "justifiable" to take the city. If we had agreed to peace with a hated enemy for the sake of an ally, it would have been justifiable, even if Queen Eira didn't thank us for it and wanted to continue fighting.By agreeing to peace with the freaking Forlucs and then refusing to give an ally back her city, we look like cowards and cheats. As I said, a bad interaction of options.
 
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I''m referring to a different set of the rolls. Specifically the loss of international relations.

The decision there said :

Since the relationship effects were mentioned for 1 option, I went with the assumption that the relationship effects were consistently mentioned. This results in the conclusion that since no relationship effects are mentioned for any of the options, that it's actually a fairly minor thing.

Oh that? That would have been from restoring the main trade routes, including the ones for the slave trade.

You do not expect a cutlery charge for the salad or the beef, because if it did exist, surely they would have mentioned it like they did for the beef.
It's a minor thing (still would have voted for taking the capital even if it would cause a minor relation drop), but with a vote this close it could have changed the result.

I believe we have different points of views. My opinion in that scenario, you only have to buy cutlery for the Beef or Salad if you choose to a certain drink to go with it and as part of the restaurant's way of doing business, they don't tell you that beforehand as you need to come across the combination on your own.

Just as I didn't tell you the combination to vassalise the Colryd in the last vote, I didn't tell the combination needed to avoid upsetting your allies and hurting your reputation with them.
 
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Just as I didn't tell you the combination to vassalise the Colryd in the last vote, I didn't tell the combination needed to avoid angering your allies.
didn't need to, though. Not screwing over our allies is kinda just common sense. As it is, most people didn't want that particular combination of votes to win, the vote kinda just ran away from us. We'll do better next time.
 
didn't need to, though. Not screwing over our allies is kinda just common sense. As it is, most people didn't want that particular combination of votes to win, the vote kinda just ran away from us. We'll do better next time.
Yeah, kinda the negative side to approval voting for stuff like this. Allows crappy combinations to occur when they aren't actually what we want to do. Nature of the medium sadly.
 
As a general rule to the whole thread, stuff is always happening in the background. Unexpected consequences may happen at any point as stuff beyond your perspective will be happening all the time and sometimes that can result in stuff happening which goes against what you know.



No, that was the gratitude by the Colryd for freeing Queen Eira. The roll where I rolled her reaction to losing Caermyr to the Arthwyd was caused by you choosing to not return Caermyr and Queen Eira being freed. The roll only took place because both of those two things happened and its results ending up cancelling the effects of your previous decision.

So you got the loyalty of the Colryd from your first decision, but other events that were partially caused by your decisions caused you to lose the loyalty of the Colryd. The net result was the loss of your alliance and Queen Eira seeking closer ties with the Foresters over the Arthwyd.
Ugh. Now that one really hurts. Another bitter regret in this quest.

Oshha, is there any possibility of Divine Intervention? Intervention as in Athwyn suddenly making an appearance, freezing the Cadlon and the greedy ones into stone and return back the settlement to Colryd? Because at this point, this was the only way to fix this mess that I could see.

We really should have a vote by plan instead of by line because good god, this is getting ridiculous. This is the third quest I've participated in that got itself fucked by this vote format.
 
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Oshha, is there any possibility of Divine Intervention? Intervention as in Athwyn suddenly making an appearance, freezing the Cadlon and the greedy ones into stone and return back the settlement to Colryd? Because at this point, this was the only way this mess.

Very unlikely. At this point, you need to push forward without relying upon divine intervention to bail you out.

We really should have a vote by plan instead of by line because by good god, this is getting ridiculous.

Using Line by line voting and no plan voting is intentional on my part.
 
Also, people are greatly overestimating the negative effects this entire escapade had.

It's not the end of the world.
It's not even the end of friendly relations. Most civs still like us, even the ones we've pissed off.
 
Ugh, we're going to have to double down all our actions on infrastructure and integration to avoid what happened the last time we vassalized some lowlanders.

They're not the people, they won't share our culture. We can't let ourselves get distracted by any shinies guys.
 
Also, people are greatly overestimating the negative effects this entire escapade had.

It's not the end of the world.
It's not even the end of friendly relations. Most civs still like us, even the ones we've pissed off.
Yeah, but it still hurts man. The Arthwyd as it is was supposed to be the bastion of civilization.

This, though?

This kind of betrayal is a stain that the Arthwyd was not above taking advantage of others if it benefits them. This hurts our legitimacy in the eyes of others. Friendly relations might still be a possibility, but international relations are gonna be hurt by the potential Arthwyd expansionism.
 
Yeah, but it still hurts man. The Arthwyd as it is was supposed to be the bastion of civilization.

This, though?

This kind of betrayal is a stain that the Arthwyd was not above taking advantage of others if it benefits them. This hurts our legitimacy in the eyes of others. Friendly relations might still be a possibility, but international relations are gonna be hurt by the potential Arthwyd expansionism.
1) Every plan involved us taking big chunks of the Lowlands. The expansionism was always there
2) Most civs, even internationally, don't care or are still friendly
3) Betrayal is a point of view. Those who lived inside the city are happy with us restoring it.
 
Hopefully this can be pulled around like we did with the Maradysh though I think making up for the loss of their only ace is going to take a while.
 
1) Every plan involved us taking big chunks of the Lowlands. The expansionism was always there
2) Most civs, even internationally, don't care or are still friendly
3) Betrayal is a point of view. Those who lived inside the city are happy with us restoring it.
I see your three point, and I raise my own:
1) The taking of Colryd land sets an unhealthy precedent of the Arthwyd taking a mile if you give them an inch. Every other civs are going to be wary of any help offered or offering help to the Arthwyd.
2) Remember the part where we were excited about Colryd loyalty? Don't get too hopeful on what the status screen shows you.
3) Betrayal is a point of view. Which is why our own Champion of the Arthwyd ran off to fight the Forluc.
Hopefully this can be pulled around like we did with the Maradysh though I think making up for the loss of their only ace is going to take a while.
There were a few wars in that, I think. This is going to get bloody.
 
Ugh, such a mess. At least with Evantine off doing her own thing with the army in Forluc lands with any luck she'll be shoving in their shit something fierce.

If we have the option next turn we should support her.
 
Alright, I have (mostly) divulged myself of salt, so let me throw out my two cents.

Diplo is great. Diplo will solve all of our problems.
Urth was able to be forgiven with the powers of Diplo. With sufficient Diplo, anything is possible.


Time to run the mother of all PR campaigns.
 
Eh, we can just make reparations to all parties concerned once this is all over. We can afford to be generous, after all.
 
...So.
Conqueror-time?
Because honestly, the only neighbors I've liked so far are the Boarfolks and MAYBE the Freak-folk.
Merintyr aggro'd us.
Maradysh SUCKED and got wrecked for being sucky.
Caradysh was under Urth. MAYBE they'll be okay now that she's gone.
Colryd frankly only existed due to Urth shenanigans.
And Forluc I consider only a matter of time before one of us tears the other apart.
 
...So.
Conqueror-time?
Because honestly, the only neighbors I've liked so far are the Boarfolks and MAYBE the Freak-folk.
Merintyr aggro'd us.
Maradysh SUCKED and got wrecked for being sucky.
Caradysh was under Urth. MAYBE they'll be okay now that she's gone.
Colryd frankly only existed due to Urth shenanigans.
And Forluc I consider only a matter of time before one of us tears the other apart.
Not really the Arthwyd way, but sure, I'd be down for it. Show them the light of Arthryn the hard way. ARTHRYN VULT!!!
 
1) Every plan involved us taking big chunks of the Lowlands. The expansionism was always there
2) Most civs, even internationally, don't care or are still friendly
3) Betrayal is a point of view. Those who lived inside the city are happy with us restoring it.
Exept the people we pissed off are imortal and will remember this, and we now have have to worry about the posibility for a two front war with the foresters and the Forloc.
 
Going to be real interesting to see what the results of the Caemyr disaster are going to be. Especially as keeping it only won over returning it by a single vote which probably means that the people were almost evenly split on what to do with it. That combined with the diplomatic disaster rolls... Why do I have a feeling we might have lost some legitimacy and/or stability because of it?
 
Exept the people we pissed off are imortal and will remember this, and we now have have to worry about the posibility for a two front war with the foresters and the Forloc.

The Foresters aren't even pisssed of. They're sufficiently worried to bail on alliance they never seriously supported, but that's it.
There's no threat of war, unless we try to create one.

Going to be real interesting to see what the results of the Caemyr disaster are going to be. Especially as keeping it only won over returning it by a single vote which probably means that the people were almost evenly split on what to do with it. That combined with the diplomatic disaster rolls... Why do I have a feeling we might have lost some legitimacy and/or stability because of it?

The first thing to recognize is that none of it qualifies as a disaster. A few relations where negativelly affected, but all relations are still positive.
 
Arthrynite Pantheon - Early Bronze Age
Arthryn, Goddess of the Arthwyd
Arthryn has two forms that she primary uses. Both of these have a muscular, lean build with brown hair and blues alongside the traditional curves of an Arthwyd woman. The first is the body that she had as Vryn back when she was mortal. While attractive and fit, it is quite mundane and toned down compared to standard appearance of an Arthrynite goddess. Arthryn primarily assumes this form in private or when she wishes to go incognito as Vryn amongst her mortal followers.

The second form is what Arthryn uses whenever she is on business and it is this form that almost everyone thinks of when they form a mental picture of Arthryn. It looks like her preferred Vryn form except whereas that form looks mundane and average, Arthryn's divine form is full of divine beauty as it is tall, muscular and a figure with curves only someone with divinity could hope to achieve. While Bronwyn still holds the claim of being the most beautiful, Arthryn is a clear second place to that in her divine form.

Regardless of which form is using Arthryn goes for comfortable, modest and practical clothing as she feels no need or desire to show off her body. The only difference between the two forms is that Arthryn wears jewellery in her divine form whilst she rarely has any as Vryn.

Arthryn has the biggest influence on the Arthwyd as her word is final and her divine teachings are the foundations of Arthwyd society. No matter what her daughters or worshippers do, they never truly cross Arthryn and the boundaries that she has placed. The communal nature of the Arthwyd and their willingness to treat others fairly are two steadfast constants of Arthwyd civilisations that were instituted by Arthryn and shall remain for as long as she can enforce them.

Despite having immense power and authority at her disposal, Arthryn rarely uses them. She could rule the Arthwyd as a tyrant, but she doesn't dare do this out of her beliefs regarding freedom and choice. So long as her teachings are followed and no boundaries are crossed into the realm of unacceptability, Arthryn gives free reign to her followers as she doesn't seek to impose her own beliefs on anyone else even when they do thinks that she views as wrong and undesirable.

Arthryn primarily interacts with her mortal followers in two ways, one for each form. Whenever she is on business and doing something as a goddess whether it be appearing at a ceremony or giving official advise or guidance, Arthryn uses her divine form. The rest of the time, she uses her mundane Vryn appearance. While she sometimes just wanders about the Arthwyd to get a feel for what her people are currently like, Arthryn will more often than not seek someone out in particular. Why she seeks out the person can vary from them being interesting to her to them earning her favour and reward to being someone she feels would benefit from her personal guidance or friendship.

Wyrn, Goddess of Stories, Trickery and Art
The oldest of Arthryn's daughters, Wyrn is the closest to her mother as they knew each other while they were still mortal. While the others have first knew their mother as the goddess Arthryn, Wyrn first knew her mother as her grandmother Vryn. As a result, Arthryn and Wyrn have always had a close relationship with each other and as a result of this close relationship, Wyrn is comfortable doing things and pushing boundaries that none of her sisters would dare touch.

Looking like a younger version of Arthryn, Wyrn has full-heartedly embraced being a goddess and loves every moment of it with her appearance reflecting this. Where as Arthryn prefers a form like what she had in life, Wyrn looks like a divine beauty all the time. Unlike her mother who reserves her stereotypical appearance for when she is on business, Wyrn looks like the epitome of Arthwydish beauty all the time and loves to show it off. While she is rarely immodest in what she wears, Wyrn almost always wears something to go along with her good looks and emphasis them to the world.

Once again contrasting her to Arthryn, just as Arthryn is responsible for fundamental Arthwyd beliefs and is generally hands off, Wyrn shapes the details of the Arthwyd perspectives on things and is actively involved in doing so. Limited to small changes over time, Wyrn uses her influence over stories and art to manipulate how things are viewed. Rather than make big changes that once which will get her in trouble with her mother, Wyrn will set up a multitude of effects over the course of generations which will ultimately culminate.

When it comes to interacting with her followers beyond influencing the views of society, Wyrn is either a party girl or a storyteller. An energetic socialiser who has good looks they want to show off, Wyrn will covertly attend almost every major social event in the Arthwyd to have fun and interact with her mortal followers. Beyond relaxing and having fun, Wyrn will also intervene in a serious manner. As the Goddess of Stories, Wyrn likes to spend time turning tragedies into happy endings. She only does this on a personal scale to avoid overtly influencing the Arthwyd, Wyrn is constantly looking for people with miserable lives or futures and doing what she can to end or avert their suffering and ensure that they will be happy in the future.

While she isn't shallow by any means, Wyrn is a big believer in beauty and sex helping people out. She values good looks and being attractive and likes to help others be the same, considering a good deed to help someone to look more beautiful. Wyrn also feels that having a good sex life can solve a lot of problems due to her own personal enjoyable of the activity through she understands it isn't an miracle cure on its own. As a result, she will try to help other people have these two things with one example of this being how Wyrn is constantly trying to get her mother to embrace her divine form more often and make her more relaxed by getting her laid.

Ymarn, Goddess of Life, War and Wisdom
One of the older Arthrynite goddesses, Ymarn looks young and beautiful when it comes to her appearance despite being famous for her old age. While this is partially because of the Arthwyd culture image of a deity being a youthful attractive woman, it is also because Ymarn prefers to be young and beautiful and chooses form that is like that. With a figure and build like her mother, Ymarn has green eyes instead of blue and rather than have brown hair, she has long silver hair like she had during her old age.

Rather than push her own beliefs, Ymarn likes to be a steadfast figure in the background that helps out where needed. While makes her less prominent and more forgettable compared to some of her other goddesses, it does leave Ymarn as a reliable go to goddess for help. Ymarn is also the goddess that is primarily prayed to for advice and guidance as a result of her being the Goddess of Wisdom as the Arthrynites seek out her wisdom.

While she gives out advice and wisdom to anyone who asks, Ymarn primarily focuses on the medical scene as she helps healers deal with the injuries and illness of others and she likes to help raise children up, especially parents who have chosen to get actively involved in lives of their children.

When it comes to interacting with her mortal followers, Ymarn will either attend social events with Wyrn or she will help look after children for a community. While the former is for fun and relaxing as she enjoys spending time with her family, the latter is done because it is something Ymarn enjoyed doing in life and considers it to be an important job that should be done. As a result, she will covertly watch over the children of a community when no members of the community are around to do so.

All-Seeress, Goddess of Truth, Knowledge and Pathfinding
The only member of the Arthrynite Pantheon to originate outside it, the All-Seeress was once the All-Seer of the Merntir. When the Merntir converted to Arthryn and the Arthrynite religion gained a pantheon, the Merntir adopted the All-Seer into it with Arthwyd influence making her become the All-Seeress. While the All-Seer was unable to resist, Arthryn didn't resist getting her former enemy as a one of her daughters.

Another thing that sets the All-Seeress apart from her fellow Arthrynite goddesses is that she was never originally human. The rest of the pantheons are ascended human souls and lived out at least one mortal life while All-Seeress was formed from the prayers and beliefs of her worshippers. This left without an identity as a person and not a person at all as she lacks sapience or even sentience, effectively a set of magic that was worshipped as a goddess and operating in a mechanical manner. This lack of her own identity also left the All-Seeress exceedingly vulnerable to being influenced as can be seen by how she went from being the All-Seer to being the All-Seeress.

Originally without a physical form or mind, the Arthwyd applied their own cultural biases to the All-Seer when it joined the Arthrynite pantheon. Without anything to resist them with or a way to resist, the All-Seer became the All-Seeress in full. Gaining the form of a youthful, attractive female, the All-Seeress name didn't change outright with the All-Seer referring to her name in Merntirish while All-Seeress refers to what she is called in Arthwydish.

All-Seeress influences things in a mechanical matter, primarily just providing her fellows with information or pathing when they call upon her divine magic and she does this without any socialising or personal interaction with her worshippers. Despite her divine magic playing a significant role in everyday life for the Arthwyd, her lack of personal interactions and general lack of a personality leaves the All-Seeress out of mind and in the background when one thinks of the Arthrynite pantheon.

Evalyn, Goddess of Death, Battle and Leadership
The first Cadlon of Arthwyd, Evalyn is a warrior and looks the part. While she is a figure and built like her fellow goddesses, it is more athletic and muscular as she distinctly looks like someone who has devoted their life to war. With green eyes and short red hair, Evalyn likes to wear the attire of a Catclaw. Evalyn has also has something of a unique appearance as she has the tail of a cat and pair of cat ears on the top of head. While she originally got them as part of a prank from Wyrn, Evalyn has chosen to keep them as a sign of sisterly affection for her fellow goddess.

Evalyn is an assertive and a woman of action and a result, she is one of the more active deities as she does what she thinks is right. Just like Wyrn has, Evalyn has butted heads with her mother over the best path for the Arthwyd to follow. Unlike Wyrn, Evalyn lacks the subtly and her methods results in her overtly clashing with her mother. While she still does go up against her mother sometimes, Evalyn has generally settled down politically as she recognises who the victor will be if she does up against her mother and she doesn't truly object to her mother's ways as Evalyn simply thinks her ways are better.

When it comes to interacting with her mortal followers, Evalyn does it in three main ways. The first is going off to relax and socialise with Wyrn at a social event. The second is that Evalyn will taken interest in the military. She will test herself in spars with promising warriors and will give advice to those in need of it such as how to fight better or how to properly lead their troops. The third way is by helping out members of the royal family as she will help her bloodline do their best to the lead the People and Evalyn tries to ensure that they will provide the leadership that they are suppose to.

Bronwyn, Goddess of Beauty, Love and Repentance
The youngest of the Arthrynite goddesses, Bronwyn is also the most beautiful as it is accepted fact amongst the Arthwyd that Bronwyn is the most beautiful woman in the world. Always proud of her good looks, Bronwyn has embraced this reputation and used her power as the Goddess of Beauty to always look her best. With blue eyes and blonde hair, Bronwyn is always able to get the right combination of proportions to look like the epitome of Arthwyd beauty. Bronwyn also has a cat tail and a pair of cat ears like Evalyn out of a desire to emulate her ancestor turned sister.

Despite her work in politics in life, Bronwyn has refused to continue engaging in politics as a goddess, leaving that to Arthryn, Wyrn and Evalyn. Instead Bronwyn focuses on personal matters and interfering on an individual level. While she embraces being the Goddess of Beauty to the fullest, Bronwyn focuses on her positions as the Goddess of Love and the Goddess of Repentance.

Often working alongside Wyrn, Bronwyn will attempt to see up romantic relationships between couples of make both parties happy and fall in love. She doesn't overtly make them fall in love or even set them up to fall in love, but instead arranges background details to allow the involved parties to make their own choices and figure out their romantic relationship on their own.

Bronwyn also attempts to help members of the Arthwyd redeem themselves and atone for their past mistakes and sins. Working with Wyrn for this on many occasions, Bronwyn does her best to give advice and encouragement to those seeking repentance and to help nudge them towards opportunities to redeem themselves and away from situations that would push them away from atonement.

***​

Please point out any spelling or grammar mistakes that you spot. Please quote them in the thread and explain what you think is wrong so I know what you are referring to. Feel to ask questions for more details and information.
 
@Oshha - have any of the goddesses had their personality meaningfully changed due to their deification, and have they noticed it? I thought it was kind of interesting that Bronwyn's pretty much all about being beautiful and sorry. It makes sense, seeing as that's what people remember about her, but when she was human Bronwyn was also a consummate politician and plotter, using that very perception of her to enact extreme changes in society, and it's difficult to interpret how her complete abandonment of that part of her being is voluntary and how much of it is due to nobody remembering her for those things.

Arthryn is also an extremely curious example. She's immune to being changed by the fickle hearts and minds of worshippers and will put her foot down when she sees something she takes umbrage to, so she would be the most resistant to what I'm describing ... but she's also unique in how she was made. Everyone else but the All-Seeress (who was and is apparently a blank slate) is an ascended human, but with Arthryn it's a lot more complicated. Personality wise, she seems to take after an exaggerated version of Arth, the man with a plan and charisma to pull it off, with Vyrn pasted on in appearance and attitude - a lot more 'in your face' than Arth acted as a leader. This kind of leads to a purposely Mary Sue ultimate ruler and god figure, with stuff like the insistence on equality coming completely out of nowhere and clearly just incorporated Arthrynite beliefs she's picked up as the symbol of their civilization. She seems intelligent and self-aware when she's 'off duty' but it's not clear whether she considers herself to be mostly Arth influenced by Vryn, the two combined, or something like their child.

All in all the goddesses seem aware that this happens. but their reaction is largely to shrug and move on.
 
All in all the goddesses seem aware that this happens

Everyone but Arthryn herself is affected by the belief of their followers. Arthryn being the diety of our civ as a whole I think has something to do with her nature not changing regardless of belief.

This is from discord questions and Oshha's responses, but I might need a citation on the reason as to why Arthryn isn't affected.
 
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