Chronicles of Nations - Civ Quest

Citino · Apr 2, 2019

masterofmadness said:
@Lukepop , @jjffjhjf ,@Random Member @kobo @Kiba

Is there any chance you would be willing to switch your votes to the version of continuing the war that focuses on the Forluc? If we consolidate the vote we can still win and your option isn't going to.

I mean, if we're going to play the consolidation game...

[X] [War] Accept Eredan's offer of peace and recognise him as the King of the Forluc in exchange for Arthrynite captives. (+2 Prestige, +2 Temp Diplo, Secured Loyalty of the Colryd)
[X] [War] Accept Eredan's offer of peace and both recognise and offer him assistance against the rest of the Forluc. (+4 Prestige, +3 Temp Diplo, +1 Temp Wealth, Secured Loyalty of the Colryd, further bonuses if successfully make Eredan king of the Forluc)
[X] [Caermyr] Settle Caermyr as Arthwyd territory directly under the rule of Greenbay. (Secondary Settle Land = Lowland Conflux, Founds a Colony in the northern lowlands)
[X] [Caermyr] Settle Caermyr and expand into the lowlands around it. (Found a Colony centred around Caermyr)

Lab_Accident · Apr 2, 2019

Kiba said:
Uh. No? They considered slaves totally normal. What's going to convince them to not use it?

We really can't stop other civs from making slaves out of their own people/each other. At best we could (temporarily) cripple the slave trade, but they'd just set up another commercial hub, which would then compete with ours.
TLDR; The People have no reason to care what other nations are doing to their own people, beyond basic disgust.

HanEmpire · Apr 2, 2019

[X] [War] Accept Eredan's offer of peace and recognise him as the King of the Forluc in exchange for Arthrynite captives. (+2 Prestige, +2 Temp Diplo, Secured Loyalty of the Colryd)
[X] [War] Accept Eredan's offer of peace and both recognise and offer him assistance against the rest of the Forluc. (+4 Prestige, +3 Temp Diplo, +1 Temp Wealth, Secured Loyalty of the Colryd, further bonuses if successfully make Eredan king of the Forluc)
[X] [Caermyr] Settle Caermyr as Arthwyd territory directly under the rule of Greenbay. (Secondary Settle Land = Lowland Conflux, Founds a Colony in the northern lowlands)
[X] [Caermyr] Settle Caermyr and expand into the lowlands around it. (Found a Colony centred around Caermyr)

jjffjhjf said:
I disagree with you on how to accomplish it. I suspect that if we continue with the war, and give the city to our allies, the lack of people who use slaves in the area will make it untenable to continue a slave trade. The only people left that would use it are the lowlanders, and we're taking that over for the most part. With the forluc gone and their territory taken over as well, no one is left to trade slaves.

How do you figure that? The Colryd were the ones who ran the largest slave market in the known world. It was their moneymaker, the thing that gave them their wealth and power. If we return Caermyr to them they'll just go on selling slaves again.

Lab_Accident said:
We really can't stop other civs from making slaves out of their own people/each other. At best we could (temporarily) cripple the slave trade, but they'd just set up another commercial hub, which would then compete with ours.
TLDR; The People have no reason to care what other nations are doing to their own people, beyond basic disgust.

Slave trade will not stay economical for many of the players if the largest trade city stops handling their haul.

10ebbor10 · Apr 2, 2019

Lab_Accident said:
We really can't stop other civs from making slaves out of their own people/each other. At best we could (temporarily) cripple the slave trade, but they'd just set up another commercial hub, which would then compete with us.

That Hub would lack a ton of advantages. It would only get our stuff through secundaries, and it won't have the same natural advantage.

It would be a mere shadow of the original trade center.

jjffjhjf · Apr 2, 2019

HanEmpire said:
[X] [War] Accept Eredan's offer of peace and recognise him as the King of the Forluc in exchange for Arthrynite captives. (+2 Prestige, +2 Temp Diplo, Secured Loyalty of the Colryd)
[X] [War] Accept Eredan's offer of peace and both recognise and offer him assistance against the rest of the Forluc. (+4 Prestige, +3 Temp Diplo, +1 Temp Wealth, Secured Loyalty of the Colryd, further bonuses if successfully make Eredan king of the Forluc)
[X] [Caermyr] Settle Caermyr as Arthwyd territory directly under the rule of Greenbay. (Secondary Settle Land = Lowland Conflux, Founds a Colony in the northern lowlands)
[X] [Caermyr] Settle Caermyr and expand into the lowlands around it. (Found a Colony centred around Caermyr)

How do you figure that? The Colryd were the ones who ran the largest slave market in the known world. It was their moneymaker, the thing that gave them their wealth and power. If we return Caermyr to them they'll just go on selling slaves again.

Well, their main customer were the Forluc, and then the Lowlanders also participated. The lowlanders are basically gone, and I want to war against the Forluc. With both of those powers gone, there isn't any more money to be made on the slave trade externally, and then some diplo actions geared towards strong disapproval of it among themselves, and suddenly there is good reason not to have slaves, and very little reason to have them. At least on a national economy scale.

10ebbor10 · Apr 2, 2019

jjffjhjf said:
Well, their main customer were the Forluc, and then the Lowlanders also participated. The lowlanders are basically gone, and I want to war against the Forluc. With both of those powers gone, there isn't any more money to be made on the slave trade externally, and then some diplo actions geared towards strong disapproval of it among themselves, and suddenly there is good reason not to have slaves, and very little reason to have them. At least on a national economy scale.

Not what the trade spoiler says.

Oshha said:
Nomads (Minor Importer), Caradysh (Minor Importer), Moradysh (Minor Importer), Belladysh (Minor Importer), Colryd (Dominant), Coltyre (Some), Forluc (Significant), Lowlanders (Some),

Everyone sells or buys slaves, with the Colryd the most. There'll still be plenty of money to be made, and it's not going to stop.

Gamesguy · Apr 2, 2019

[X] [War] Reject Eredan's peace offer and continue the war against the Forluc.
[X] [Caermyr] Settle Caermyr as Arthwyd territory directly under the rule of Greenbay. (Secondary Settle Land = Lowland Conflux,
Founds a Colony in the northern lowlands

Cariyaga · Apr 2, 2019

Kiba said:
Do people really not care about reducing or stopping the slave trade?

Nope. It's fiction, idgaf.

kobo · Apr 2, 2019

I've already made my argument for war but I can accept peace assuming we actually prepare for the next inevitable conflict with the Furloc.

On the other hand, the fact that people are actually voting to give up a trade hub boggles my mind. In ancient times the people that control trade almost inevitably become the most dominant power in the area. They will accumulate the most wealth, the most influence and the most power.

Controlling the hub makes us objectively more powerful and influential, and actually gives the opportunity to eventually assimilate the lowlands because our culture will be right there and our culture will certainly spread more if we control it. Why would we give this up? Literally every historic superpower directly worked towards controlling trade hubs.

masterofmadness said:
@Lukepop , @jjffjhjf ,@Random Member @kobo @Kiba
Is there any chance you would be willing to switch your votes to the version of continuing the war that focuses on the Forluc? If we consolidate the vote we can still win and your option isn't going to.

I voted for both versions I believe.

Cariyaga · Apr 2, 2019

I would strongly prefer we either reject the peace deal or support Eredan.

Lab_Accident · Apr 2, 2019

HanEmpire said:
Slave trade will not stay economical for many of the players if the largest trade city stops handling their haul.

Slave trade is always more economical than the alternative. Which is, actually paying people to work.

Kiba · Apr 2, 2019

Lab_Accident said:
Slave trade is always more economical than the alternative. Which is, actually paying people to work.

It will be more expensive and costly if you can't trade slaves there.

10ebbor10 · Apr 2, 2019

kobo said:
On the other hand, the fact that people are actually voting to give up a trade hub boggles my mind. In ancient times the people that control trade almost inevitably become the most dominant power in the area. They will accumulate the most wealth, the most influence and the most power.

Controlling the hub makes us objectively more powerful and influential, and actually gives the opportunity to eventually assimilate the lowlands because our culture will be right there and our culture will certainly spread more if we control it. Why would we give this up? Literally every historic superpower directly worked towards controlling trade hubs.

Frankly, I have no idea.

Especially those people who decide to vote for both that option and for pursuing the war.

There's no logical reason to give up Caermyr.
The Colryd Kingdom consisted out of a bunch of cobbled together tribes and settlements. It was never a massively unified nation, so they don't consider Caermyr as theirs, and won't consider it a theft.
Given Caermyr to the Colryd gives us a bit of diplo (of which we have more than enough) and a bit of extra relations (which are already good)
At the same time, the Colryd are massively weakened, so they won't be able to reestabilish Colryd, which directly weakens us by prolonging the period in which we do not have trade ties restored.
And in addition to that, restoring Colryd means restoring and boosting the slave trade.

Finally, having the major center of trade is a boost for for diplomacy, so what we're doing is grasping for a short term bonus that we don't need.

Lab_Accident · Apr 2, 2019

Kiba said:
It will be more expensive and costly if you can't trade slaves there.

And that benefits us how? Not even the moral benefit of stopping slavery, just midly discouraging it. And someone else will just open a new slave market.

taovkool · Apr 2, 2019

Kiba said:
Do people really not care about reducing or stopping the slave trade?

Nnnnnot really?

I mean, it's a rather widespread value at this point that breaking it apart is more troublesome than its worth. Really, so long as the Arthwyd is anti-slavery, I'm fine with it. We can break it down in long term.

10ebbor10 · Apr 2, 2019

Lab_Accident said:
And that benefits us how? Not even the moral benefit of stopping slavery, just midly discouraging it. And someone else will just open a new slave market.

We don't use slavery, so damaging slavery directly improves our competitiveness.

Oshha · Apr 2, 2019

Vote is closed.
Vote Tally : Chronicles of Nations - Civ Quest - Original | Page 421 | Sufficient Velocity [Posts: 10508-10676]
##### NetTally 1.9.7
Task: Caermyr
[X][Caermyr] Settle Caermyr as Arthwyd territory directly under the rule of Greenbay. (Secondary Settle Land = Lowland Conflux,Founds a Colony in the northern lowlands)
No. of Votes: 25
[X][Caermyr] Return Caermyr to the Colryd and begin to settle the lowlands. (+2 Temp Diplo, Increased Relationship with everyone, Founds a Colony in the northern lowlands)
No. of Votes: 24
[X][Caermyr] Settle Caermyr and expand into the lowlands around it. (Found a Colony centred around Caermyr)
No. of Votes: 9

Star
10ebbor10
Citino
HanEmpire
Kiba
kobo
Korporati
LonelyWolf999
thefoolswriter

[X][Caermyr] Settle Caermyr as a trade outpost and begin to settle the lowlands. (Founds a trade post as Caermyr, Founds a Colony in the northern lowlands)
No. of Votes: 5

Pyro Hawk
Kiba
kobo
Somebodynobody10
wingstrike96

——————————————————————————————————————————————Task: War
[X][War] Accept Eredan's offer of peace and recognise him as the King of the Forluc in exchange for Arthrynite captives. (+2 Prestige, +2 Temp Diplo, Secured Loyalty of the Colryd)
No. of Votes: 26
[X][War] Reject Eredan's peace offer and continue the war against the Forluc.
No. of Votes: 20
[X][War] Accept Eredan's offer of peace and both recognise and offer him assistance against the rest of the Forluc. (+4 Prestige, +3 Temp Diplo, +1 Temp Wealth, Secured Loyalty of the Colryd, further bonuses if successfully make Eredan king of the Forluc)
No. of Votes: 14

nat_401
Brogatar
Cariyaga
Chiperninerm
Chrestomanci
Citino
Donkey Hote
HanEmpire
Knight Draco
LonelyWolf999
Pyro Hawk
thefoolswriter
veekie
wingstrike96

[X][War] Reject Eredan's peace offer, but focus on consolidating your new control over the northern lowlands.
No. of Votes: 5

Lukepop
jjffjhjf
Kiba
kobo
Random Member

Total No. of Voters: 53

10ebbor10 · Apr 2, 2019

Welp, that was close in many aspects.

UlseDovThur · Apr 2, 2019

Sigh welp, time to start bulking up for the inevitable Second Forluc War.

10ebbor10 · Apr 2, 2019

It'll take some time.

We know that Eredin, even if everything goes right for him, does not have the capability to restore the Forluc to their former glory within his life.

Lab_Accident · Apr 2, 2019

10ebbor10 said:
We don't use slavery, so damaging slavery directly improves our competitiveness.

We're not directly competing economically with anyone else, though. They can't make what we're selling and we can't make what we're buying. Just makes the few things we do import more expensive.

Somebodynobody10 · Apr 2, 2019

Excellent, apparently we failed our reaction rolls and now everyone around us hates us for taking Caermyr, minus the Forluc splinter nation EDIT: and boars, who don't care.

soulcake · Apr 2, 2019

Mfw somehow he gets a daughter from Eira who he keeps and grooms to rule after him.

Wait hes a mysogonist. Nvm

Somebodynobody10 · Apr 2, 2019

And our army has gone AWOL! Following our martial genius into waging war against the core, helping the splinter faction ANYWAY!

10ebbor10 · Apr 2, 2019

Somebodynobody10 said:
Excelent, apparently we failed our reaction rolls and now everyone around us hates us for taking Caermyr, minus the Forluc splinter nation.

Boarfold don't care either. Neither do the Colryd's.

Only the Caradysh succesor states care, and considering that they apparently think that they fulfilled their oath of defense in this conflict, I don't really care about their opinion of us. The fact that they openly reneged upon their obligations shows that their friendship is worthless anyway.

After all, not only did their leader deliberately engage in an action that rendered the civilization unable to aid us, the civ itself refused to help us even when they were able. Only when we actually pressed with a Diplo Hero did they decide to send a token force, and by then the war was already over.

Chronicles of Nations - Civ Quest

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