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Chronicles of Nations - Civ Quest

Should the world be a Low Fantasy setting?

  • Yes

    Votes: 63 70.0%

  • No

    Votes: 27 30.0%
  • Total voters
    90
  • Poll closed .
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demonthese2211 said:
That is a somewhat deceptive analogy. It would be just a valid to say that the single roll is better if you use the correct numbers, i.e. 3d100 has more chances to get lucky but 1d100+40 is much more likely to produce a better result.
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While we do not know the precise mechanics involved, we can easily deduce a few basic facts.

1) The increase in basic capability of the royal family will not be huge. It would be highly OP for us to have an entire family full of geniuses. As such, the increase will be sufficiently small that the remainder of the family can be ignored.
2) There's only 1 person who can be the first descendant. There's tens of thousands of other people in our civ.

So, in the Xd100 vs 1d100+Y competition, we can conclude that X is large, and Y is small.

Now, that's not to say that it's always terrible. The advantage of a consistent boost is that it's consistent. But the loss of the ability to simply appoint a hero/highly skilled individual when one pops up will result in a loss of exceptional leadership capability.
 
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I'm not sure I would call Bronwyn vain. She certainly had a lot of pride in her appearance, but that was from spending her teenaged years growing up amongst relatively ugly peers. Vanity is excessive pride and Bronwyn had pride, it just wasn't in excess. At least not in my opinion. She didn't let her beauty influence her decisions or lead her down bad paths, it was just an aspect of her that Bronwyn valued.

As for being happy to die as a statue to show off her beauty, it would be wrong to say that she was happy to die like that. It was more of a 'if I have to die, this is a good way to do so.' Bronwyn didn't want to die, but since she was, she took solace that it was a better way to die than it could have been otherwise. Sort of like a warrior being happy to die in battle or with honour. They don't want to die, but if they do die, they want it to be a good death. Or an artist dying by ensuring that his works are famous or a parent dying to ensure that their family survives. They don't want to die, but they got a good death by their standards and they are happy with that.
 
demonthese2211 said:
That is a somewhat deceptive analogy. It would be just a valid to say that the single roll is better if you use the correct numbers, i.e. 3d100 has more chances to get lucky but 1d100+40 is much more likely to produce a better result.
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The main issue with this argument is that we don't know what the numbers being rolled are. Based on the fact that skill levels go from -5 to +5 it seems likely that what's being rolled for each stat is 2d6-7. If it gets changed a bit, to something like 2d6-6 with anything over 5 being carried over to another stat. It's a fairly significant increase, though not necessarily something beyond the reach of a few additional rolls beating. It would still guarantee that the person in charge is never utterly incompetent in a stat though, which additional rolls can't do.

As for Bronwyn, so long as the aspects of her Goddesshood involve redemption, I'd be pretty ok with it. She was a big deal, and she screwed up in a big way, and now she has all of her immortal life to fix it.
 
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I'd be ok with Bronwyn becoming a goddess, it's a bit weird what with her being smote by Big Moma but she is basically adored by everyone and just had a temple built around her, wouldn't be hard for Wyrn to nudge her reputation in a divine direction.
 
Goddess of duty, pride, and aesthetic?
Something along those lines
I dont think she should be a goddess
need to prevent oversaturation. Shes a good one, but not on the top of ze list
 
jjffjhjf said:
The main issue with this argument is that we don't know what the numbers being rolled are. Based on the fact that skill levels go from -5 to +5 it seems likely that what's being rolled for each stat is 2d6-7. If it gets changed a bit, to something like 2d6-6 with anything over 5 being carried over to another stat. It's a fairly significant increase, though not necessarily something beyond the reach of a few additional rolls beating. It would still guarantee that the person in charge is never utterly incompetent in a stat though, which additional rolls can't do.
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To be honest, for this narrative is more important than mechanics.

In order for a hereditary monarchy to be consistently superior, it requires that the royal family is a collection of übermenschen , who literally can not be equalled even by the best of the common folk. In every other situation, the law of large numbers will ensure that the more populous candidate pool will end up being better.

Edit : Another reason to dislike the deification of Bronwyn. It grossly exagerates the divine royal family. No longer do you have a collection of people with distant divine ancestry, but instead you get a collection of God Kings.
 
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jjffjhjf said:
The main issue with this argument is that we don't know what the numbers being rolled are. Based on the fact that skill levels go from -5 to +5 it seems likely that what's being rolled for each stat is 2d6-7. If it gets changed a bit, to something like 2d6-6 with anything over 5 being carried over to another stat. It's a fairly significant increase, though not necessarily something beyond the reach of a few additional rolls beating. It would still guarantee that the person in charge is never utterly incompetent in a stat though, which additional rolls can't do.
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However, this does assume that all of the stats are buffed. It's also possible that our leaders just get a +1 to two random stats or something along those lines.

Knight Draco said:
Goddess of duty, pride, and aesthetic?
Something along those lines
I dont think she should be a goddess
need to prevent oversaturation. Shes a good one, but not on the top of ze list
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Bronwyn is also a good candidate for being the Goddess of Cadlon. True, Evalyn was the first, but it seems like Bronwyn is pretty universally seen as being better at it.

10ebbor10 said:
In order for a hereditary monarchy to be consistently superior, it requires that the royal family is a collection of übermenschen , who literally can not be equalled even by the best of the common folk. In every other situation, the law of large numbers will ensure that the more populous candidate pool will end up being better.
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Do note that the royals only have to consistently be better than the common folk who'd have a shot at becoming Cadlon otherwise.
 
Omegahugger said:
Bronwyn is also a good candidate for being the Goddess of Cadlon. True, Evalyn was the first, but it seems like Bronwyn is pretty universally seen as being better at it.
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I really don't think we should empower the first person to abuse her power to such an extent that she got turned to stone as the divine representative of the institution.

In addition, the concept of a Goddess of a specific government form is bad, because it prevents our society from ever evolving.

Omegahugger said:
Do note that the royals only have to consistently be better than the common folk who'd have a shot at becoming Cadlon otherwise.
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The current system seemed to be decent enough at picking out those individuals. Born equal helps.
 
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10ebbor10 said:
I really don't think we should empower the first person to abuse her power to such an extent that she got turned to stone as the divine representative of the institution.
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Considering that our only other candidate killed enough of one of our vassals that they threatened military uprising, I don't consider being 'cursed' with an eternal body to be much of a disqualifier.
 
10ebbor10 said:
While we do not know the precise mechanics involved, we can easily deduce a few basic facts.

1) The increase in basic capability of the royal family will not be huge. It would be highly OP for us to have an entire family full of geniuses. As such, the increase will be sufficiently small that the remainder of the family can be ignored.
2) There's only 1 person who can be the first descendant. There's tens of thousands of other people in our civ.

So, in the Xd100 vs 1d100+Y competition, we can conclude that X is large, and Y is small.
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So for 1 I would like to point out that this is a divine royal family that is literally backed by a divine figure, so I would not bet on it being insignificant. In addition I don't think what is and isn't OP is a huge consideration in what we are allowed to get considering our Born Equal value, despite having a con listed, has to the best of my knowledge never had any negative effect on our civ. Finally even if it is statistically worse I think the value of establishing a skill floor shouldn't be overlooked. As for two I don't think you are sufficiently valuing the specialized training and concentration of resources to support that training having a monarch allows.
 
Omegahugger said:
Considering that our only other candidate killed enough of one of our vassals that they threatened military uprising, I don't consider being 'cursed' with an eternal body to be much of a disqualifier.
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Both candidates can be disqualified. No need for there to exist a good option.

demonthese2211 said:
So for 1 I would like to point out that this is a divine royal family that is literally backed by a divine figure, so I would not bet on it being insignificant. In addition I don't think what is and isn't OP is a huge consideration in what we are allowed to get considering our Born Equal value, despite having a con listed, has to the best of my knowledge never had any negative effect on our civ. Finally even if it is statistically worse I think the value of establishing a skill floor shouldn't be overlooked. As for two I don't think you are sufficiently valuing the specialized training and concentration of resources to support that training having a monarch allows.
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Just because leadership isn't assigned to a single dictator at birth, doesn't mean you can't have training.
 
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I don't see it at all.

Bronwyn has shown zero repentance, nor has she been offered the opportunity to repent. So, that doesn't make sense.
Meanwhile, having a God of our specific governement system is a very bad idea, because it means that any further societal evolution becomes blasphemy.
 
She's had no opportunity to repent, but she could repent. Even if she doesn't Wryn could spin her that way pretty easily. Though that might be going too far into personality manipulation for her tastes.
 
10ebbor10 said:
Bronwyn has shown zero repentance, nor has she been offered the opportunity to repent. So, that doesn't make sense.
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While it hasn't been in an update (so understandable that you didn't see it), I did mention that Bronwyn does acknowledge what she did wrong and accepts her punishment as being a fair outcome to her sinful selfishness even if she would rather not get punished.
Oshha said:
Bronwyn accepts her punishment and that she did wrong by using her position to empower her family at the expense of the community. She got a good result, but she did it for the wrong reasons and she needs to be punished for that as an example for future generations. She isn't happy about the whole being a statue thing (who would be?), but she agrees that the precedent needs to be set.
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Oshha said:
While it hasn't been in an update (so understandable that you didn't see it), I did mention that Bronwyn does acknowledge what she did wrong and accepts her punishment as being a fair outcome to her sinful selfishness even if she would rather not get punished.
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Still doesn't make sense for it to be in popular myth though. No one could have heard any such repentance.

In addition, repentance fundamentally is about reviewing your mistakes and changing. Bronwyn didn't get any such opportunity. It was instant execution. Even granted she wanted to repent, there's no opportunity for her to have done so.
 
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We should vote on it as a modturn action
Make a handful of various choices that all seem alluring.
 
10ebbor10 said:
Still doesn't make sense for it to be in popular myth though. No one could have heard any such repentance.

In addition, repentance fundamentally is about reviewing your mistakes and changing. Bronwyn didn't get any such opportunity. It was instant execution.
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She discussed her repentance with Wyrn, who is the one in charge of stories.

The Strongest Goddess is powerful like that.

Knight Draco said:
We should vote on it as a modturn action
Make a handful of various choices that all seem alluring.
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This is a friendly reminder that Bronwyn will be our second catgirl Goddess if inducted.
 
Oshha said:
Just to clear things up, Arthryn is the strongest goddess. Any contest between Wyrn and Arthryn will almost certainly go in Arthryn's favour.
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Until Wyrn simply continues to build herself up and Arthryn down in the eyes of the people until Wyrn is considered the only Goddess worth praying to at all.
 
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