Should the world be a Low Fantasy setting?

  • Yes

    Votes: 63 70.0%
  • No

    Votes: 27 30.0%

  • Total voters
    90
  • Poll closed .
The only true way to profit from war is being an ocean away and selling war material to all sides. This is not a criticism, but the situation as I see it.
 
So we can pretty much assuming something like the black death is going on in the lowlanders now. Though i am curious which two diseases they got. @Oshha dont suppose we can know which ones they got out of curiosity?
 
Though i am curious which two diseases they got. @Oshha dont suppose we can know which ones they got out of curiosity?

Sure, it was [REDACTED] and [REDACTED]. Because I am totally going to ruin the surprise and give spoilers on a potential major threat to your civ.

Seriously through, you will need to find this stuff out in-universe as your civs will need to deal with the fictional diseases setting on their own and I won't be giving spoilers or tips in the thread. Okay, I might give tips if you are doing really badly.
 
Actually, is it possible to improve the settlement actions so that basic infrastructure improvements like shrines or walls built automatically as part of a new settlements, rather than with their own action? As in, if we establish that walls and shrines are part of the vital infrastructure of a settlement?

Almost missed this.

Yes, it is possible. However, you need to find out the requirements on your own first.
 
Sure, it was [REDACTED] and [REDACTED]. Because I am totally going to ruin the surprise and give spoilers on a potential major threat to your civ.

Seriously through, you will need to find this stuff out in-universe as your civs will need to deal with the fictional diseases setting on their own and I won't be giving spoilers or tips in the thread. Okay, I might give tips if you are doing really badly.
So, will we have to know how actual diseases work to be able to figure out what to do?
 
So, will we have to know how actual diseases work to be able to figure out what to do?
This being a low fantasy setting means we can't neccesarily rely on IRL diseases as a basis.

Even ignoring the magic factor, there are a lot of possibilities for novel diseases once you aren't limited by real life evolutionary paths. Like, just by making fungi more effective at infecting mammals you can theoretically get stuff like The Last Of Us zombies.
 
This being a low fantasy setting means we can't neccesarily rely on IRL diseases as a basis.

Even ignoring the magic factor, there are a lot of possibilities for novel diseases once you aren't limited by real life evolutionary paths. Like, just by making fungi more effective at infecting mammals you can theoretically get stuff like The Last Of Us zombies.
Yeah, but like... swelling of nodal areas is indicative of a bacterial infection, stuff like that. Though with magic existing, you can get literally anything happening. Or at least, at our current understanding of magic, that's the best we can figure out of it.
 
Yes, it is possible. However, you need to find out the requirements on your own first.

Thanks for the info!

Maybe we could try getting infrastructure everywhere then leaving off settling for a turn or two? Or maybe repeatedly doing settle + build shrine actions? There's definitely a lot of potential value in improving our action economy.
 
Maybe we could try getting infrastructure everywhere then leaving off settling for a turn or two? Or maybe repeatedly doing settle + build shrine actions? There's definitely a lot of potential value in improving our action economy.

You can try those things, but I won't tell you if they are successful unless they work.

That said, take a look at PoC and Yucatan.
 
Thanks for the info!

Maybe we could try getting infrastructure everywhere then leaving off settling for a turn or two? Or maybe repeatedly doing settle + build shrine actions? There's definitely a lot of potential value in improving our action economy.

I agree that we should concentrate on infrastructure and get good at building.
 
I agree that we should concentrate on infrastructure and get good at building.
yeah, I really want to get good at building too. Which is largely why I wanted to wait on getting the mountain pass until we had the economy to Main it till it finished. Which would have gotten us the rush builders legacy. Now, I don't think we can get it until we get a new wonder to build. So, might as well try and get our shrines finished I guess. Assuming we can afford it.
 
Yeah, but like... swelling of nodal areas is indicative of a bacterial infection, stuff like that. Though with magic existing, you can get literally anything happening. Or at least, at our current understanding of magic, that's the best we can figure out of it.
I mean, this is all assuming that our people have any idea as to what nodes in a human are, or what the insides of a human look like with any particular kind of accuracy.

Honestly, considering the People have been blessed through magic shenanigans, they might not even look internally exactly like a regular human does.
 
They do. The effects of the Blessing of Arthryn are completely within normal human limits.

Yup, all women are having big breasts and vide hips while looking like they had gone to the gims their entire life.
Mens to are tall and muscular wich leaves us with entire nation that has a figure to kill for.
Where do i need to go to convert?
 
Pinning down the vector should work the same, fantasy plagues or not. There has to be a means of transmission.
Noting that at the civ level a lot of the vectors are literally invisible to us due to abstraction level
Sometimes you can improve your own position via war, but doing so will result in others losing out.
That said, you are still better off not fighting in the long run as the would-be participants of the war can spend their time, resources and manpower on other stuff rather than expending them on warfare. Overall, warfare results in a net loss compared non-war alternatives unless you are looking at it from a selfish perspective.

An individual or group of individuals can benefit from war, but the majority of those involved don't, not compared to non-war alternatives.
Speaking on a civilization level its also a stressor that forces innovation, and partly why Europe was so dead killy compared to the rest of the world when colonization happened. Most places tend to form large stable empire analogues up to geographical limits once the tech got good enough, and then turned their attention to quashing internal stability issues, which has a side effect of quashing any disruptive ideas.

The war-torn Europe on the other hand, was a fair bit too busy stabbing each other to systematically control new ideas, even as some of them died stillborn when they wound up on the wrong end of a sword, more could escape to spread.

Best to think of war as the elimination phase of a cycle of natural selection. You need prosperity to build diversity, then crisis to select the good ideas from the bad ideas.
 
Lowland Apocalypse
[X] Protecting the villages. The problem is that the lowlanders will be too numerous and too varied for the People to stop them all. The solution is to protect the villages by constructing a physical barrier to keep out the raiders.

While she toyed with the idea of training warriors to focus purely on fighting the people foes of the Arthwyd, Malbyn ultimately decided against that course of action. It was too barbaric and close to the vile nature of the lowlanders for Malbyn to suggest such an action. What sort of people would need have to a group devoted solely to slaying other people?

Instead, she focused on protecting the People. The People had no desire to fight wars and cause unnecessary violence. The People would fight of course, but only when forced to by the actions of others.

And when they did fight, it would be to look after their own. To help do that, Malbyn decided that the settlements of the People could do with some form of protection against surprise attacks, so that the defenders of a settlement wouldn't be caught off-guard and overwhelmed.

The answer was simple enough. The People already protected themselves and their belongings via the walls and roofs of their buildings. While a roof wasn't practical for a settlement, walls could work.

While constructing a wall around a settlement would be time-consuming, it could be done. Stone and clay would take too long and wouldn't be practical for building walls around every settlement. Wood would be more useful as all the People would have to do is cut down trees and waterproof them with walnut oil, something they already do when they make canoes and rafts. With the walls, they would just simply have to do the same and instead of creating the boats, stick them in the ground around the settlement to make a wall.

Coming to this conclusion, Malbyn also saw two future projects, grand designs that while would take generations of work and no small amount of resources, they would benefit the People greatly even if Malbyn would certainly be dead by then.

The first is born out of the need for wood for the walls and knowledge of the evil Forest Spirits of the Caradysh. Wood would be vital for the future for as long as Malbyn or anyone could see yet their ventures into the lowlands have proved that at least some forests, including the largest in the lowlands, harbour evil and malicious spirits. To ensure that the People will always have access to wood that isn't tainted by evil spirits, a new forest could be grown and managed in Greenbay.

The second project is inspired by the possibility of using stone to build a wall. Stone would result in the strongest walls, which nothing short of a divine or magical act could bring down or overcome them. While it wouldn't be practical to build stone walls around every settlement, a vital settlement could be protected by a stone wall to safeguard against future dangers.

Greenbay is the greatest of the People's settlement, where the priests rule over the entirety of the People and almost a third of the People live. Surely protecting the capital and most important settlement of the People would be worth the investment it would take to build a stone wall?

Megaproject Unlocked!
Sacred Forest
Create a forest free of taint in the heartland of the People so that there shall always be access to useable wood.

Megaproject Unlocked!
Greenbay Stone Wall
A stone wall isn't practical for every settlement, but Greenbay isn't an ordinary settlement. The most important location for all of the People, the capital should be protected with a nigh-impregnatable defence.

***​

Things seem alright at first. In hindsight, it had already begun, but it wasn't until it got truly bad that Malbyn and the Cateyes realised the way that things were going and how everything was going to add up.

First it was Praden of the Lowlander Zealots. An up and coming warrior, he was able to rally the warriors of the Lowlander Zealots behind him and marched north against the Zaradysh. The fighting was fierce and Praden was a genius when it came to war.

The only warrior of the Zaradysh who could hold their own against Praden and his followers was the undying Voryn. Every other Zaradysh village and warband would fall to Praden and for several seasons, Praden saw nothing, but success as Voryn focused his attentions against his ancient foes, the Caradysh, and his eternal rival, Urth.

Malbyn and the Arthwydish carefully stayed out of matters as Voryn and Urth clashed while the southern lands of the Zaradysh were conquered by Praden and the Lowlander Zealots.

Second was the conflict between the Freak Folk and the Boarfolk Nomads as according to news from the Zaradysh, boar-people riding giant boars had come from the east. Led by a mighty leader who was peer to Urth, Voryn and Praden, the nomads would carve up the unprepared and outmatched Freak Folk defenders. Even as Praden led the Lowlander Zealots to victory against the Zaradysh, this nomad leader would lead the boarfolk in conquest of the Freak Folk.

Then the Caradysh started to die off as something began to kill their people. It would sap their strength and energy, leaving them physically weary and tired out by basic tasks. Then the afflicted would be unable to sleep despite their exhaustion as something kept them awake. Lastly, the afflicted would finally fall asleep when they could remain awake no more and once sleep took them, the afflicted would never wake again, remaining sleep until death takes them.

They called it Nightmare's Gift.

As the Nightmare's Gift spread amongst the Caradysh, their war effort began to collapse even as Urth and Voryn continue to fight. For a period of time, it looked like the Caradysh were going to collapse while the Lowlander Zealots conquered the Zaradysh and the Freak Folk were conquered by the nomads.

Then the Lowlander Zealots attacks began to slack off and reports coming from the mixed groups of Zealots and Zaradysh in the southern Zaradysh territories showed that things were going to get even worse. They reported that the Lowlander Zealots had been afflicted by the Nightmare's Gift, having received it from their southern neighbours, who are now apparently on the verge of collapse.

And on top of everything else, the usual weather in the lowlands had changed over the generation and now the old crops and plants weren't growing the same as they were before, resulting failed harvests. Then as if that wasn't enough, the animals of the lowlands had also changed up their patterns and this had the effect of the lowlander hunters being less successful than they had been in past generations.

As Malbyn tried to figure how the People were going to deal with what was going on in the lowlands, they began to receive reports that the Freak Folk had also gotten the Nightmare's Gift. Like with the Lowlander Zealots, the Freak Folk had gotten the Nightmare's Gift from their southern neighbours and like the southern neighbours of the Lowlander Zealots, the southern neighbours of the Freak Folk had also collapsed or were on the verge of doing so.

When the reports of the Caradysh collapsing from the fighting and the Nightmare's Gift came in and the Zaradysh western settlements started to suffer from the Nightmare's Gift, Malbyn decided it was time for the People to withdraw from the lowlands for a few generations until everything had settled down.

Remaining in the northern and eastern Zaradysh villages, the only parts of the lowlands that currently remained free of the Nightmare's Gift, Malbyn and the Cateyes returned north to the Arthwyd, taking the lowlanders who sought to flee to the safety of the Arthwyd with them.

While the news of the disaster in the lowlands and the integration of the lowlander refugees, caused no small amount of disruption and worry amongst the Arthwyd, the People had escaped from the chaos in the lowlands effectively unscathed.

Deciding to spend the rest of her days with Cadnys in Greenbay, Malbyn wondered what the future would hold for the People and what the lowlands would look like when the People would go back in future generations.

You have two Secondary Actions. Two Secondary Actions make a single Main Action. No plan voting or write-ins.
Please tag actions as [SEC] & [MAIN].


[] [SEC/MAIN] Build New Shrine = (Target)
S: -2 Temp Econ, +1 Shrine (+1 Mystic per 3 Shrines),
M: -4 Temp Econ, +2 Shrines (+1 Mystic per 3 Shrines),
-Possible Targets: Greenbay (2/3), Rockbay (1/1), Sunrise Bay (1/1)

[] [SEC/MAIN] Build Palisade = (Target)
S: -2 Temp Econ, +1 Palisade,
M: -4 Temp Econ, +2 Palisades,
-Possible Targets: Greenbay (1/3), Rockbay (0/1), Sunrise Bay (0/1)

[] [SEC/MAIN] Create New Trails.
S: -2 Temp Econ, +1 Trail (4/5),
M: -4 Temp Econ, +2 Trails (4/5),

[] [SEC/MAIN] Explore Lands = (Target)
S: -1 Temp Econ, -1 Temp Martial, Chance of new discovery,
M: -2 Temp Econ, -2 Temp Martial, Improved Chance of new discovery,
-Possible Targets: Coastline, Coastal Plains, Forest, Lowlands, Sea, Sunset Mountains, Sunrise Mountains, Western Coast, Northern Coast,

[] [SEC/MAIN] More Farming.
S: +2 Temp Econ, Chance of Innovation,
M: -2 Temp Econ, +1 Econ (0/1) (Limited to 1 per 3 Settlements), Chance of Innovation,

[] [SEC/MAIN] More Fishing.
S: +1 Temp Econ, Chance of Innovation,
M: +3 Temp Econ, Improved Chance of Innovation

[] [SEC/MAIN] More Hunting.
S: +1 Temp Econ, +1 Temp Martial, Chance of Innovation,
M: +3 Temp Econ, +2 Temp Martial, Improved Chance of Innovation

[] [SEC/MAIN] Settle Land = (Target)
S: -3 Temp Econ, -1 Temp Martial, +1 Settlement Progress, +1 Econ,
M: -6 Temp Econ, -1 Temp Martial, +2 Settlement Progress, +2 Econ,
-Possible Targets: Greenbay (3/12), Rockbay (1/12), Upriver Plains (0/12), Sunrise Bay (1/12), Sunset Plains (0/12), Sunrise Plains (0/12),

[] [SEC/MAIN] Study Magic.
S: -1 Temp Econ, -1 Temp Mystic, Chance of Innovation,
M: -2 Temp Econ, -2 Temp Mystic, Improved Chance of Innovation

[] [SEC/MAIN] Trade Expedition = (Target)
S: -1 Temp Econ, +1 Temp Diplo, Chance of increased relationship, more knowledge about the outside world,
M: -2 Temp Econ, +3 Temp Diplo, Improved Chance of increased relationship, more knowledge about the outside world,
-Possible Targets: Freak Folk, Merntir, Boarfolk Nomads, Zaradysh,

[] [SEC/MAIN] Raiding Party = (Target)
S: -1 Temp Econ, +1 Temp Martial, Chance of damaging target, Chance of losing Temp Martial,
M: -2 Temp Econ, +3 Temp Martial, Greater chance of damaging target, Greater chance of losing Temp Martial,
-Possible Targets: Caradysh, Zaradysh, Boarfolk Nomads,

[] [SEC/MAIN] Venerate the Goddesses
S: -1 Temp Econ, +1 Temp Mystic, +1 Temp Culture, Chance of +1 Stability, Chance of +1 Legitimacy,
M: -3 Temp Econ, +2 Temp Mystic, +2 Temp Culture, Improved Chance of +1 Stability, Improved Chance of +1 Legitimacy,

Mega-Projects
[] [SEC/MAIN] Sunrise Mountain Passage
S: -3 Temp Econ, +1 Progress
M: -6 Temp Econ, +2 Progress
-Progress: 2/4 or 10

[] [SEC/MAIN] Sacred Forest
S: -2 Temp Econ, -1 Temp Martial, -1 Temp Mystic, +1 Progress
M: -4 Temp Econ, -1 Temp Martial, -2 Temp Mystic, +2 Progress
-Progress: 0/???

[] [SEC/MAIN] Greenbay Stone Wall
S: -3 Temp Econ, -1 Temp Mystic +1 Progress
M: -6 Temp Econ, -2 Temp Mystic +2 Progress
-Progress: 0/???

***​

As mentioned in the thread, multiple fires went off all at once in the lowlands and they have pretty much collapse in a localised apocalypse. Due to their location, the People have decided to withdraw from the lowlands and stay out of it for a few generations. However, being the nice guys that they are, the Arthwyd took a bunch of refugees from the lowlands as they had nowhere else to go, giving you some Temp Econ and costing you a point of stability.

You also got palisades and a couple of megaprojects. So more infrastructure for you guys to worry about.

The Arthwyd
Early Ancient Theocracy
Upper Centralization Limit: 6
Lower Centralization Limit: -2
Admin Strain Free Provinces: 4
Penalty Accumulation: Additional +1 Lower Centralisation required per 2 Provinces
Player Actions: 2 Secondary Actions +1 Secondary Action per 2 Provinces
Province Actions: 1 Secondary Action per 2 Provinces
Subordinates: 1
Special: +1 Mystic per a Province
Special: Free Subordinate Slot for Subordinates that share the same religion per a point of Legitimacy.

Early Ancient Palace Economy
Temp Econ Damage: Event, -1 per 1 Centralisation,
Wealth Generation: 1 per Dominant,
Passive Policies: N/A
Additional Actions: None
Special: Negative Centralisation or lower than Minimum Centralisation will lead to collapse.
Special: Increased polity size will raise the level of Minimum Centralisation required.

Stats
Diplo
: 2 (2)
Econ: 10 (7)
Martial: 3 (3)
Mystic: 1 (1)
Culture: 1 (1)
Tech: 0 (0)
Wealth: 0 (0)

Legitimacy: 3/3
Stability: 1/3
Centralisation: 3
Hierarchy: 2
Prestige: 12

Statuses


Diplomatic Relations

Your opinion/Their opinion/Frequency of Contact
Caradysh = Probably Dead/???/None
Zaradysh = Probably Dead/???/None
Freak Folk = Probably Dead/???/None
Lowlander Zealots = Probably Dead/???/None
Boarfolk Nomads = Maybe Dead/???/None

Subordinates
Type/Loyalty/Dependence
Merntir = Religious Vassal/Very High/Low

Values & Legacies
Chosen of Arthryn: Gain +1 to all Innovation Rolls,
Agricultural Innovators: +1 Temp Econ to Farming actions,

Communal Mandate
As per the words of the goddess, loyalty and kindness to one's people is of the highest importance and even when times are tough or when it is not personally beneficial, one should stick by their community.
Pros: Reduced Internal Discontent, Increased Resistance to Foreign Intrigue,
Cons: Increase stability loss from taking actions which harm the People,

Born Equal
While the choices of a person and the world around them can make a person greater or lesser, everyone is born equal to each other.
Pros: Decreased social stratification,
Cons: Decreased social stratification,

Loyal Neighbours
The People do not abandon their own. They stand by their neighbours and community through thick and thin and do not yield when it comes to protecting their fellows.
Pros: Increased Unity during times of crisis,
Cons: Legitimacy loss when abandoning members of the People to harm and danger,

Technologies
Straw/Reed Rope
Carts
Wicker

Agriculture
Basic Fertiliser (Primitive Compost & Manure)
Basic Irrigation
Two-Field Crop Rotation
Primitive Concept of Growth Energy

Fishing & Boats
Fishing Nets
Rafts
Canoes
Walnut Oil
Waterproofing
Sails (Rafts)
Arts
Stone Carvings
Vocal Storytelling
Earthenware Pottery

Administration
Early Cuneiform
Tally Marks
Stone Record Keeping

Leadership
Elders
Big Man
Priests
Local Leadership Delegation

Diplomacy
Negotiations
Immigrants
Refugees
Trade
Gifting
Expeditions

Religion
Shrines
Tribute
Sacred Animals
Priests
Weapons
Spears
Slings
Bows & Arrows

Personal Protection
Primitive Shields

Organisation
Hunting Groups
Dedicated Scouts

Defences
Palisade
General
Divine Magic

All-Seerist Magic
Increased Accuracy
Guided Attacks
Truth Detecting
Scrying
Future Seeing

Arthrynite
Limited Stone Manipulation
 
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I'm thinking:

[x] [SEC] Build New Shrine = (Greenbay)
[x] [SEC] Sunrise Mountain Passage

Keep working on the Passage, and get Shrines finished up.
 
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