I think we can all agree that Sayaka shouldn't start with too much Int. Oorbeck will be very sad when we meet him.

I feel as though different Magical Girls should be using different mixes of Sorceries and Miracles, similarly to how different builds in Dark Souls would work. In that case, Sayaka would be more of a Faith based caster. As for the others...

Homura, for instance, might have her Time Stop as a Miracle, but would also have learned a Soul Arrow/Farron Dart equivalent at some point so we could just say she's a Sorceror overall, and she'd have some sort of effect a-la Havel's Ring from her Shield that lets her carry equipment without needing lots of Vigour.

I'm not sure how to handle Mami. She would be a Dex based ranged fighter of some kind, maybe one who uses overpowered Weapon Skills? Her ribbons would probably be a Miracle, but the clones might be a more Sorcerous thing considering she had to work that out on her own? Switching systems is hard.

Madoka is also hard to handle, but I think she can be considered as using her bow along with some sort of Weapon Skill to fire laser arrows. Her divine powers would obviously be classified as Miracles, though a lot of them act like Sorceries. I mean, lasers raining down from the sky? The Crystal Sages do that all the time!

Kyoko is weird. Like, she used to have illusion magic, but lost it when she became traumatized, rejected her wish, and (stretching it slightly here) basically lost all faith in humanity.... Which means it isn't weird at all, and fits in this system perfectly! Faith caster who res-specced into Dex/Str with a spear. Her chain things are a Weapon Skill of some kind, I guess.
 
No, but she's been Octavia now as well. Octavia who is the core of her Magic, so she should, if she tries anyway, probably have more of an idea of things she could pull off. Likely music and water related considering Octavia didn't do much with swords.

Anyway, wow those stats. I'm both surprised and not, what does her magical girl magic cast from? I guess I could see it not caring about soul stats too. Not caring about Faith or Int or anything with what it does as its just her rather than something she's trying to learn to channel.

To me the stats we're presented with in Dark Souls always struck me as being... not abstract, but rather facets of the soul (which in the case of the physical stats, is the soul reinforcing the body). Different arts and titanite infused weapons kind of work off of different parts of the soul and so if your soul was strong enough in those aspects then you could use them.

Also I don't see a leveling cost anywhere. And what soul level are we? Our soul is... kind of weird. Its housed in a gem (or a cage if the gem is the soul) so might have more room to... stretch so to speak, it might still have Octavia inside it even if she's probably a bit crispy at this point, and magical girl buffs seem to be just that, buffs. Their magic naturally reinforces their bodies or something. *Shrug*
Eh, Octavia had the soul stealing orchestra, I think, but the witchiness seems to have been burnt out of us in any case, at least for now. If we start using things she used from the get go, it's probably because things aren't going so good.

With the knowledge that grief is something related to the raw darkness of humanity (as a dark souls concept), and also that dark magic stems from the black fire of humanity that resides within grieving hearts (flowery language is all we've got to work on here, really, sorry if this is a bit melodramatic), I'd say that we could probably pick up more of 'our' 'tricks' with help from an actual teacher in the art of being a particularly witchy individual, though. Later game, but something to look forward to.

I'd agree that stats are naturally going to be a bit abstract; people don't get any bulkier for leveling strength, nor does their mass increase, yet somehow it's the difference between grabbing a hammer and lifting yourself up versus grabbing that hammer and lifting it. Most of the weird stuff is probably going to be soul shenanigans more than anything physical. In addition, I think it's in the description of throwing knives how items tend to choose their wielders? That always seemed like an explanation for why we couldn't just grab the weapon we wanted off of any enemy, we had to wait until it started glowing. Weapons have souls, and they might be helping out in various ways, and if you don't meet all their standards then even if logically you could use them, in practice they're not very good.

As for Octavia being inside the gem, I personally never really liked that; I've always felt that magical girls were their witch, just not yet. I think she's only 'inside the gem' in the sense that we are all inside ourselves. It follows that, given, at least in this crossover, the existence of people who can mess around with dark magic without exploding and teach others how to do it without them exploding, we can probably meet the first and become the second.
Its... hmm... I think Magical Girls don't really have Spells as such because they're basically using their own Miracles. Like I doubt Gwyn casts Lightning Spears, they're just something he does. Or did rather.

Sayaka doesn't cast healing, she just heals.

So for the Octavia thing she wouldn't really need to remember the memories, because her soul already knows the movements.

On a similar note I think Sorcery might be Miracles flipped on their head. Like Miracles are the codified stories of things Heroes and Gods did in the past, instead flip it so that you're making the code to control the energy to do something first.

Uhh... Miracles = Someone does something/something happens -> what happened is codified in story -> People learn story to copy thing. Sorcery = a Code is made to control energy -> It makes something happen -> People copy it to do the thing.

Or something. I got the idea from Exalted where they have Essence which has two methods of shaping said Essence, broadly speaking. One is through Marital Arts charms where the character moves in certain ways that shape their Essence to do specific things and work in specific ways and the other is where the character shapes the essence directly to cause a change in either themself or the world around them.
I agree with the Magical Girl stuff just being something Sayaka does. Nothing says everything has to fit into sorcery or miracles, and I'm pretty sure the gods aren't praying to themselves, unless it's by believing in how cool they are, which, fair enough, they might be, they are pretty cool.

Like, the soul arts are just throwing soul power at stuff until it works. But there are also the forces around that twist souls and cause them to become unique; I think souls are reflection of the forces of life, not the end-all be-all of them. That's why the souls of legendary heroes that weren't particularly special all look roughly the same, but even Vordt, a barely above average chump, has a fancy soul that can be turned into a weapon or a ring.
 
FTFY
Those are some interesting points, I must say. The way I view it is that seeing as sorceries are the expression of souls, a magical girls more advanced abilities would operate in a similar way. Basically, since the magical girl's power is supposed to be an expression of their soul, intelligence is knowing how to navigate your way through the whole mess of a maze that is one's own self. But that kind of falls apart seeing as it's called intelligence, not wisdom or something similar, so them being related to miracles could arguably make more sense. Well, it looks like I may have to change a few things, but not sure as to what yet.

Matching them with faith feels just as, if not more weird to me than intelligence, although I guess you could make the argument that they rely on faith in oneself, which is a point that now having been said, I absolutely hate but can't fully argue against. The idea that I'm going with is that advanced magical girl powers beyond healing, which generates corruption, and and summoning swords, you'd actually have to make/discover custom sorceries that would operate similarly, such as water related sorceries, seeing as ice sorceries are already a thing, although there are technically some water related miracles, I suppose. As for the Octavia part, well, those sorceries would have to come from somewhere after all.
I think expression may be the wrong word, it sounds too personal. It seems more along the lines of sorceries being formulas that soul energy is dumped into. Miracles always came off as having some personality to them with how varied what they could do ended up being and the different flavors they all had whereas sorceries always seemed to be very cut and dry and only having a single theme to them. (With Dark sorceries being another theme in 3 I guess)

My point about it not being something they cast was that they don't use any stat with what they do. Its there soul after all, why would they need to stretch it out to try and accommodate like they would for needing to learn something that is other. Why would Gwyn need Faith to throw his lightning bolts when they are just something he does?

There is a ringing of truth about a Magical Girl needing to explore the flow of their own Soul to figure things out though I'll admit. Their Witch is the core of the Magic, so that feels all too true. Or just figuring out how the flow of our magic through the channels of our soul works. Or how our soul flows. You get the point.

Needing Faith to venture deeper into our soul and Int to figure out what we find there, but all the casting reqs for what we do find being 0/0 or something (and gaining a proportionate bonus boost to it from having above the required stats?) (teaching other people would be funny once we learn how though).

Of course there's also (what I'm told is) the long way around of just having Sayaka figure out who she is. I'm fairly good at that myself so I know I have a skewed perspective on the matter. (spell check couldn't tell that scew was me trying to spell skew. I'm sorry, what? That's dumb spell check).
 
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I think expression may be the wrong word, it sounds too personal. It seems more along the lines of sorceries being formulas that soul energy is dumped into. Miracles always came off as having some personality to them with how varied what they could do ended up being and the different flavors they all had whereas sorceries always seemed to be very cut and dry and only having a single theme to them. (With Dark sorceries being another theme in 3 I guess)
Dark Sorceries are kind of repurposed Hexes to be fair, but that is a fair point about sorceries being fairly stale, with only a few seeming to stand out, like the Oolacile and Sullyvahn's Ice sorceries. However, miracles aren't much better in terms of personality, really. Besides a few outliers, they are all kind of just general things with the main exception being the DLC miracles. Pyromancy actually seems to have the most personality, which is kind of fitting in a way, I suppose. It has the most variation, with a lot of weird buffs and spells. That all being said, in terms of themeatics you are absolutely correct in miracles having much more personality than sorceries, seeing as one is a formula while the other is literally a story. Man, this is making me wish I had someone to run these ideas by someone beforehand.

My point about it not being something they cast was that they don't use any stat with what they do. Its there soul after all, why would they need to stretch it out to try and accommodate like they would for needing to learn something that is other. Why would Gwyn need Faith to throw his lightning bolts when they are just something he does?
because muh gameplay mechanics Honestly, that's a good point. Part of the issue is that:
I'm trying to avoid this being a full on Red Soul copy, and trying to do my own thing here. Red Soul was a fun quest that ended early for very understandable reasons. While it was the primary inspiration for this, after experiencing the souls games for myself, I have very different head canons than those that were presented in it. (Dark Souls 2 is canon, you can't tell me otherwise, damnit. Even if what actually happened during it wasn't important, by itself, which it really wasn't, the themes it explored really helped color the way I view the series as a whole) Part of the fun of storytelling with Souls is presenting your own perspective on how you think the world and setting work and function, which is what I'm trying to do here. As an example, one of the major parts of Red Soul was the complete separation between the two systems, which, to try and say without spoiling too much, is not something that I'm going with in this story.

There is a ringing of truth about a Magical Girl needing to explore the flow of their own Soul to figure things out though I'll admit. Their Witch is the core of the Magic, so that feels all too true. Or just figuring out how the flow of our magic through the channels of our soul works. Or how our soul flows. You get the point.

Needing Faith to venture deeper into our soul and Int to figure out what we find there, but all the casting reqs for what we do find being 0/0 or something (and gaining a proportionate bonus boost to it from having above the required stats?) (teaching other people would be funny once we learn how though).
Hm, that's actually a clever idea that I may go with. Make them hexes with no status requirement, low base damage, but high scaling essentially. Thematically appropriate too.

Of course there's also (what I'm told is) the long way around of just having Sayaka figure out who she is. I'm fairly good at that myself so I know I have a skewed perspective on the matter. (spell check couldn't tell that scew was me trying to spell skew. I'm sorry, what? That's dumb spell check).
Care to share your secret? Also, oh my god, you're right, it doesn't even suggest it.
 
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Man, this is making me wish I had someone to run these ideas by beforehand.
You haven't actually introduced these points yet, so we can keep rolling. It doesn't feel like it'd be a huge shift either (unless it is, in which case, sorry?).

Also, well you have someone to bounce them off now? Its what threads are kind of for too.
because muh gameplay mechanics Honestly, that's a good point. Part of the issue is that:
I'm trying to avoid this being a full on Red Soul copy, and trying to do my own thing here. Red Soul was a fun quest that ended early for very understandable reasons. While it was the primary inspiration for this, after experiencing the souls games for myself, I have very different head canons than those that were presented in it. (Dark Souls 2 is canon, you can't tell me otherwise, damnit. Even if what actually happened during it wasn't important, by itself, which it really wasn't, the themes it explored really helped color the way I view the series as a whole) Part of the fun of storytelling with Souls is presenting your own perspective on how you think the world and setting work and function, which is what I'm trying to do here. As an example, one of the major parts of Red Soul was the complete separation between the two systems, which, to try and say without spoiling too much, is not something that I'm going with in this story.
Not really trying to separate the systems at all. My idea is trying to go towards a smooth integration of the two systems with upsetting points from either as little as possible. *Shrug*
Hm, that's actually a clever idea that I may go with. Make them hexes with no status requirement, low base damage, but high scaling essentially. Thematically appropriate too.
It'd be hilarious to make them Miracles or something for others later, but sure. Whatever you feel is good.
Care to share your secret?
If I knew I'd be rich. Partly it seems to just be a consequence of being an INTJ personality type. (You know those ones who are so intelligent in just the wrong ways that they have breakdowns because they keep thinking about how shit the world is and the crap it has going on in it? Yeah, that's us. We're supposed to be the Philosophers and Dreamers, but... uhh... yeah).
 
You haven't actually introduced these points yet, so we can keep rolling. It doesn't feel like it'd be a huge shift either (unless it is, in which case, sorry?).

Also, well you have someone to bounce them off now? Its what threads are kind of for too.
No need to apologize! Dark Souls lore, while enjoyable, is prone to causing headaches and frustration, which often can lead to grouchiness and loud arguing, depending on the severity. Truly an awful disease.

Not really trying to separate the systems at all. My idea is trying to go towards a smooth integration of the two systems with upsetting points from either as little as possible. *Shrug*
I understand, and I just want to say thank you for your suggestions, if I haven't already done so. I genuinely do appreciate them. I'll put some more thought into it as the quest moves along, although I'll keep your points in mind. Even if I don't seem like it, I am genuinely interested in hearing other people's perspectives on lore. But Dark Souls II is canon. I will die on this hill if I must.

It'd be hilarious to make them Miracles or something for others later, but sure. Whatever you feel is good.
Honestly, probably just going to sort them as either Sorceries (Int scaling), Miracles (Faith scaling), and instead of Pyromancies, hexes as mentioned earlier. I've put way more thought into this than I really should have, so I have plenty of ideas for possibilities.

If I knew I'd be rich. Partly it seems to just be a consequence of being an INTJ personality type. (You know those ones who are so intelligent in just the wrong ways that they have breakdowns because they keep thinking about how shit the world is and the crap it has going on in it? Yeah, that's us. We're supposed to be the Philosophers and Dreamers, but... uhh... yeah).
Fuck, I think I got INFP when I took that a while back, if I remember correctly.
 
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There is a ringing of truth about a Magical Girl needing to explore the flow of their own Soul to figure things out though I'll admit. Their Witch is the core of the Magic, so that feels all too true. Or just figuring out how the flow of our magic through the channels of our soul works. Or how our soul flows. You get the point.

Needing Faith to venture deeper into our soul and Int to figure out what we find there, but all the casting reqs for what we do find being 0/0 or something (and gaining a proportionate bonus boost to it from having above the required stats?) (teaching other people would be funny once we learn how though).
You're totally right, the Witch is the core of the magic. Well, not literally, but the only source of greater Sayaka-ness is inside ourselves.

Instead of a pyromancer becoming more of a sapient fireball, we're a Sayaka-mancer trying to become more of ourselves. The gods, and other bosses of their nature, are relevant, because we're trying to throw around our own power, rather than somebody else's. The problem is instead of like, body heat or muscle effort or something, the thing we expend when we withdraw from our stores of Sayakaness is Sayakaness, which isn't sustainable. Taking out and using Sayakaness means we run out of Sayakaness, unless we're willing to become the infinite Nega-Sayaka of doom, which wasn't so great the first time around.

But there's a line of spells very good at building off of one's inner humanity, or whatever they're calling it these days. HuManatee. The joke is that we're a fish. Hexes. Soul-powered, like a sorcery or miracle, rather than costing us corruption, but making use of our internal traits, like our direct magic. They'd be based entirely on our own traits, so as we grow into more of ourselves they're likely to become stronger, both because we're stronger and because we can call upon more of our strength.

If we're merging the magic systems, it might also explain the weird 'drop out of a pool of dripping darkness' thing all the abyss creatures tend to do. It's just a barrier. Exactly the same as our witch barrier, sans familiars (and maybe not even that; we know the nature of the dark soul is to fragment). Because if you're not a god or a being of living flame, you're a weird darkness monster whose only instincts are an innate slightly British accent and good luck, you're just not usually strong enough to exhibit it grotesquely.

Actually, that seems to be it in a nutshell. Magical girls use the power of their dark souls; specifically, they're directly dredging up power or swords or whatever from them and then using it without washing their hands, so they just fill straight up with humanity. And when their soul gem fills up, the fluffy illusion-of-humanity part of their soul, the little white bit on the tip that hides that everybody's a floaty darkness monster, ceases to be able to hide that they're a floaty darkness monster. And then they turn into their particular flavor of Abyssal being, just like everybody else who overflows with the power of the abyss.

Honestly, probably just going to sort them as either Sorceries (Int scaling), Miracles (Faith scaling), and instead of Pyromancies, hexes as mentioned earlier. I've put way more thought into this than I really should have, so I have plenty of ideas for possibilities.
Why not just all Hexes, but with different catalysts depending on what one is trying to do? The DS2 dark magic system was more robust, even if it still felt a little weird to have to swap between them, but there's nothing stopping us from rediscovering the general concept (indeed, it's sort of implied that hexes are cheating a bit; the Repel text mentions that the person credited with coming up with it never taught anybody, but somehow people learned it anyways).

In fact, Sayaka almost literally cast Numbness in canon, so it's not too much of a stretch... and Resonant Flesh, which transforms souls into health. And if you say that Resonant Weapon makes a weapon rather than buffs one... is Sayaka literally just casting custom Resonant Hex spells without the souls to back them up? The aesthetics are off, but if we're merging the systems everything else seems to line up just fine.
 
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Actually, that seems to be it in a nutshell. Magical girls use the power of their dark souls; specifically, they're directly dredging up power or swords or whatever from them and then using it without washing their hands, so they just fill straight up with humanity. And when their soul gem fills up, the fluffy illusion-of-humanity part of their soul, the little white bit on the tip that hides that everybody's a floaty darkness monster, ceases to be able to hide that they're a floaty darkness monster. And then they turn into their particular flavor of Abyssal being, just like everybody else who overflows with the power of the abyss.
That actually plays extremely well into the doppel mechanic from Magia Records. Long story short, magic girls in the mobile game manifest a partial version of their witchself instead of going full witch when their souls fill with grief. Not exactly sure how it works in the game, but here it'd make perfect sense as Sayaka using magic to let her flavor of Abyssal being slip forward without losing the illusion of herself.
Honestly, probably just going to sort them as either Sorceries (Int scaling), Miracles (Faith scaling), and instead of Pyromancies, hexes as mentioned earlier. I've put way more thought into this than I really should have, so I have plenty of ideas for possibilities.
That's a genuine disappointment for me, and also doesn't make a lot of sense given Sayaka is an Ashen One. Fire is the foundational basis for the mythology of the Dark Souls world, and as a pyromaniac I'd be sad to miss out on such magic.

Perhaps instead of losing Pyromancy, have Hexes be a subtype of Pyromancy based around manipulating the fires of the Dark Soul?
 
That's a genuine disappointment for me, and also doesn't make a lot of sense given Sayaka is an Ashen One. Fire is the foundational basis for the mythology of the Dark Souls world, and as a pyromaniac I'd be sad to miss out on such magic.

Perhaps instead of losing Pyromancy, have Hexes be a subtype of Pyromancy based around manipulating the fires of the Dark Soul?
I think they just meant for modeling Sayaka's magic. Nothing's stopping us from picking up normal pyromancy, I think.
 
You're totally right, the Witch is the core of the magic. Well, not literally, but the only source of greater Sayaka-ness is inside ourselves.

Instead of a pyromancer becoming more of a sapient fireball, we're a Sayaka-mancer trying to become more of ourselves. The gods, and other bosses of their nature, are relevant, because we're trying to throw around our own power, rather than somebody else's. The problem is instead of like, body heat or muscle effort or something, the thing we expend when we withdraw from our stores of Sayakaness is Sayakaness, which isn't sustainable. Taking out and using Sayakaness means we run out of Sayakaness, unless we're willing to become the infinite Nega-Sayaka of doom, which wasn't so great the first time around.

But there's a line of spells very good at building off of one's inner humanity, or whatever they're calling it these days. HuManatee. The joke is that we're a fish. Hexes. Soul-powered, like a sorcery or miracle, rather than costing us corruption, but making use of our internal traits, like our direct magic. They'd be based entirely on our own traits, so as we grow into more of ourselves they're likely to become stronger, both because we're stronger and because we can call upon more of our strength.
Hm, actually using the mechanics of hexes directly? I hadn't thought of that, but I could see it working quite well as a quest mechanic. I'll give it some thought on how to best implement it, but I'll definitely include some skills that function in this way now that you've brought it up, if I don't just add it in to the system all together.

Why not just all Hexes, but with different catalysts depending on what one is trying to do? The DS2 dark magic system was more robust, even if it still felt a little weird to have to swap between them, but there's nothing stopping us from rediscovering the general concept (indeed, it's sort of implied that hexes are cheating a bit; the Repel text mentions that the person credited with coming up with it never taught anybody, but somehow people learned it anyways).

In fact, Sayaka almost literally cast Numbness in canon, so it's not too much of a stretch... and Resonant Flesh, which transforms souls into health. And if you say that Resonant Weapon makes a weapon rather than buffs one... is Sayaka literally just casting custom Resonant Hex spells without the souls to back them up? The aesthetics are off, but if we're merging the systems everything else seems to line up just fine.
The main reason is that hexes require a huge stat investment of both intelligence and faith. Being a dedicated hexer takes up almost all of your skill points, and it isn't until far into the end game that you're able to really invest into much else. That being said, good job picking up more of what I was going for, although I wouldn't say that the weapon creation is necessarily hex-related, but it could work that way. You've given me a lot to think about, so thank you very much for that. Additionally, I do have to give you credit for picking up on the other points.

That actually plays extremely well into the doppel mechanic from Magia Records. Long story short, magic girls in the mobile game manifest a partial version of their witchself instead of going full witch when their souls fill with grief. Not exactly sure how it works in the game, but here it'd make perfect sense as Sayaka using magic to let her flavor of Abyssal being slip forward without losing the illusion of herself.
I may use elements of this, but most likely not the full doppel mechanic itself.
That's a genuine disappointment for me, and also doesn't make a lot of sense given Sayaka is an Ashen One. Fire is the foundational basis for the mythology of the Dark Souls world, and as a pyromaniac I'd be sad to miss out on such magic.

Perhaps instead of losing Pyromancy, have Hexes be a subtype of Pyromancy based around manipulating the fires of the Dark Soul?
I think they just meant for modeling Sayaka's magic. Nothing's stopping us from picking up normal pyromancy, I think.
This exactly. Pyhromancies are still going to be there, don't worry about that. It's just that I can't really put any of Sayaka's abilities under that classification without it feeling forced. That being said, I do have a few ideas for some custom pyromancies, but we'll see if they end up being included.
Adhoc vote count started by RecurringExtra on Jun 21, 2019 at 3:08 PM, finished with 24 posts and 3 votes.

  • [X] Yes
    -[X] Well, actually, hold up, you just got this fancy stuff and you need to stick it someplace; you're keeping the shield and the soapstone, you mean the casting stuff, seeing as how you can't figure out how to use it yet. Ask Hawkwood if Sorcerers normally just cart this all around, or if there's a more convenient manner of storing ungainly items, seeing as how everything else around here is so magical. If he's not sure maybe you could just ask the Firekeeper to hold onto the casting paraphernalia until you get back. She seems nice, and it's not like there's anybody around who'd take it from her.
    -[X] But after that, yeah, you're ready to go.
 
Well, just came back to this, and I'm excited! Also good news for you- the ringed city means that DS2 is confirmed canon. Also, the whole nature of humanity thing. If we're conflating witches with the Dark Soul, then it's not inconceivable that we could get a witch form ala rebellion. Either way, making witches and the abyss one in the same means that we can now officially also blame gwyn for all of sayakas problems as well :D
 
Firelink Shrine 9: Storage and Departure
You almost say yes, you are ready, because, honestly, you're getting sick of waiting, and just want to get started. Unfortunately, or rather fortunately, you realize one very important fact: on your person are a staff, a scroll, a huge leather shield, a piece of chalk(?), a warm glowing red rock, and two weird bottles of stuff you think is called 'estus'. Stuffing things in your pockets can only get you so far. You're kind of surprised you haven't dropped anything yet considering just how much you're lugging around with you.

"Hold up, one last thing first." Hawkwood raises an eyebrow, but says nothing. "So I just got all this new fancy stuff, and I can't really carry all of it around with me. I mean, I'm keeping the shield and the... soapstone I think it was called?" It's kind of soapy you guess? Seems more like chalk though. "I'm talking about the magic stuff." You shake the staff around. "Do people just carry all of this around with them everywhere they go, or is there some convenient magical way to store things around here. Should I just leave it with the Firekeeper until I get back?"

"Just throw it into the bonfire." Hawkwood says matter-of-factly.

"...What?" He wants you to just toss them into the fire? You just paid for them! Well, you paid for them with things called 'souls' so you're still not sure how moral an action that really was. You get that they're not really 'soul' souls, but it still seems weird.

Hawkwood sighs, before he pulls out what looks like a clump of moss from a pouch on his side. He shows it to you, before he simply tosses it into the flame. Rather than setting alight as it should, the moss seems to simply vanish into thin air. After a few confusing moments, he simply puts his hand back near the bonfire, only to have the moss appear back in his hand.

"The bonfire is able to store thy possessions and allows thou to retrieve them when needed." The Fire Keeper speaks up, answering your question before you can even ask it. "If thou wishes to retrieve whatever possession is stored, simply place thy hand above the flame and will for its return."

"Also, be careful if you store too much and forget what you have in there, or you may just bury yourself when you try to get everything back." Hawkwood adds in. You open your mouth to speak, before he cuts you off to continue. "No, I don't know how it works, and frankly, I doubt anybody does, even the Fire Keeper. If there is a reason, I imagine it'd be fairly disappointing regardless." The man always has to kill any hint of excitement it seems.

Slowly, you inch the wooden staff near the bonfire, just in case it catches alight. When it finally makes contact, the staff simply vanishes from your hands. It takes you a moment to realize that, yes, the staff just vanished into thin air, and no, Hawkwood wasn't just screwing with you. Hesitantly, you try the same with the scroll you purchased, and as it touches the flame it too simply disappears. Just to be sure, you raise your hand to the fire and think "staff". Suddenly the wooden staff appears in your hand. When you move to store it, it vanishes once more without a trace. Huh, this is actually pretty cool. Is it motion detecting or something? You consider asking, but magic is magic, and doesn't seem to have any need to make sense. Besides, Hawkwood already said that nobody really 'gets' how the bonfires really work.

"Alright, that solves that." you say, idly dusting off your hands.

"For now." Hawkwood replies, feeling the need to once more darken the mood. "We'll need to find some way for you to actually carry your things with you, otherwise you'll probably just drop your flasks." While his pessimism is annoying, you can't deny that what he's saying is correct. Hopefully you'll be able to find something, because carrying them around in your pockets has been a pain.

"So how exactly are we leaving?" you ask. In response, Hawkwood motions towards the bonfire, as if expecting that to simply answer the question. "It can teleport people too, can't it?" you ask, not even a bit surprised when he nods an affirmative. "Of course it can." you groan, much to the Fire Keeper's seeming amusement. Turning your head, you catch her giggling at your frustration. At least somebody's getting a kick out of this.

It takes the Fire Keeper a moment to regain her composure, but with a deep breath she finally manages to, her voice quickly regaining its solemn tone. "Place thy hand above the flame, and travel to Lothric, Ashen One. May the flames guide thee."

Alright, that seems simple enough. You place your hand above the fire. As you do, a sharp noise blasts in your ear as a pale fog forms around you. Before you can so much as move, the fog fills the room, blocking out your sight in all directions. The light quickly fades behind the thick fog, and you find yourself stuck in pitch black.

You aren't sure how long you're stuck in this weird limbo. It could have been a moment, it could have been an eternity. All you know is that once it ends, you find yourself standing above a grate in a closed room, a little dizzy but otherwise okay.

Looking around, the first thing you notice are the candles. Everywhere you look there are candles, or rather what were once candles, but are now just piles of old melted wax. The walls are made of aged stone, covered in cobwebs and roots that grow up along it. Hanging are some ancient banners that look like they're ready to fall apart if you so much as breathe on them. Looking down, you find the floor to be much the same as the walls; old stonework that hasn't been cleaned in a long time. In front of you is an old wooden door that looks to lead outside the structure you find yourself in. To your left and right are four alcoves, filled with what look to be oddly shaped gray rocks, along with more melted candles that line the inside of each alcove, the wax sitting on a raised stone surface. Behind you, resting atop one of the banners and an altar of some sort, sits a large cup, with another one of those coiled swords resting on it. Above the altar is a boarded-up window that lets in a few faint rays of light. That, and the hole in the moldy wooden roof letting in a stream of light lets you know that it's still daytime.

When you realize that you have no idea where Hawkwood is, you hear an 'oof' as if somebody had just fallen. Turning to look, you see Hawkwood pushing himself off the ground. "Well that's just as awful as it used to be. Why did I agree to do this?" he mutters, a grimace on his face. He has a look of nausea on his face, which he seems to quickly shake off.

"Well, we made it here in one piece, at least?" you say.

"The question is how long it'll stay that way." Hawkwood chimes in.

"Why are you so pessimistic?"

"I'm being realistic. It's better to expect the worst and be pleasantly surprised than to wind up run through by several Hollows. I'd like for us to actually make it back."

"Why, so you can head back and sit on a ledge doing nothing?"

"It's a very comfortable ledge, and I look forward to returning. Now, we should probably get moving." Hawkwood says.

Welcome to Lothric!
[] Hawkwood's right, you should get moving.
-[] Head out through the door. Sitting around here isn't going to get anything done.
-[] Climb out through the roof. Maybe the door's a trap?
-[] Some other plan?
[] Before you go anywhere, maybe you should...
-[] Examine the weird bowl and the other things in the room. Maybe Hawkwood knows what some of it is?
-[] Talk with Hawkwood, maybe try and figure out a plan of some sort before you head anywhere.
[] Write In
 
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"Well that's just as awful as it used to be. Why did I agree to do this?"
Agree to- This was your idea!

[X] Before you go anywhere, maybe you should...
-[X] Examine the weird bowl and the other things in the room. Maybe Hawkwood knows what some of it is?
-[X] Talk with Hawkwood, maybe try and figure out a plan of some sort before you head anywhere.
-[X] What can we expect outside this room? More people like back at the tower, or actual monsters? What kinda place is Lothric?

Self explanatory really. Help out us plebs who didn't play DSIII.
 
Agree to- This was your idea!
:)

Well, just came back to this, and I'm excited! Also good news for you- the ringed city means that DS2 is confirmed canon.
The Ringed City felt like Miyazaki basically throwing up his hands and saying "Okay, fine, it happened whatever." That being said, it's still probably my favorite DLC.
My boy Gael is easily the best fight in the entire series.
Also, the whole nature of humanity thing. If we're conflating witches with the Dark Soul, then it's not inconceivable that we could get a witch form ala rebellion. Either way, making witches and the abyss one in the same means that we can now officially also blame gwyn for all of sayakas problems as well :D
I mean, you might be able to, although just because two different parties both reached the same conclusion doesn't change the vastly different reasons for them to reach said conclusion.

Gwyn's still a dick though, let's be real here.

Edit: Updated the stats page with more stuff if anyone feels like taking a look. I'm going to need to properly organize that soon.
 
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[X] Before you go anywhere, maybe you should...
-[X] Examine the weird bowl and the other things in the room. Maybe Hawkwood knows what some of it is?
-[X] Talk with Hawkwood, maybe try and figure out a plan of some sort before you head anywhere.
-[X] What can we expect outside this room? More people like back at the tower, or actual monsters? What kinda place is Lothric?


sure why nottttt
 
[X] Before you go anywhere, maybe you should...
-[X] Examine the weird bowl and the other things in the room. Maybe Hawkwood knows what some of it is?
-[X] Talk with Hawkwood, maybe try and figure out a plan of some sort before you head anywhere.
-[X] What can we expect outside this room? More people like back at the tower, or actual monsters? What kinda place is Lothric?
 
High Wall of Lothric 1: Bowls and Plans
You agree with him on some level. While you'd much rather just run ahead and try and get started, perhaps it'd be smarter to take a slower approach? After all, blindly bashing your head against a wall was how you tended to try and solve most of your issues before, and look how well that ended up. Maybe you should at least try to think before anything, and not just rush in blind.

So first thing's first, you should take a closer look around. "Hold on," you say, "shouldn't we take a look around first? See what's in here?"

"In here?" Hawkwood almost seems to scoff at the idea. "Ah yes, piles of rubbish. Very interesting, really."

"Oh come on, this has to be important!" You walk over to the altar with the bowl and coiled sword on it. "There's no way they'd just leave this stuff sitting around here!"

"Oh yes, I'm sure it's all just as important as all the corpses that litter this room." he replies, gesturing towards the alcoves. Looking closer, you see that, yes, those are in fact skulls. You instinctively recoil at the sight, much to Hawkwood's seeming amusement.

Turning to Hawkwood, you shoot him a dirty look. "If you really wanted to help, shouldn't you at least try and be a little, I don't know, helpful?"

Hawkwood matches you with a glare, before finally giving in with a sigh. "Fine, fine, what is it that you find so important about this place?"

You once more gesture back towards the altar at the end of the room. "Do you have any idea what this is?"

He stares at the altar, then he stares at you. "Sayaka, that's a bowl."

"Oh really, thanks, I wasn't sure about that yet." you grumble in annoyance, as Hawkwood moves over to take a closer look. He examines the bowl closely for some time, until, after about a minute, he seems to have reached a conclusion.

"If I had to guess," he begins, "I'd say it's supposed to be a model of a Lordvessel, from back when those were still used." Hawkwood turns to face you "It would explain the coiled sword alongside it, as both are seen as symbols of the linking of the fire, but the model is not at all to scale."

There's an awkward silence, before you blink and confirm that, yes, Hawkwood seems to be actively trying to be useful. "See, was that really so hard?" you say with a smirk.

Hawkwood rolls his eyes "It's just irrelevant information that I assumed you either would know or wouldn't care about."

"If it's so irrelevant, why do you know all of it?"

"I learned a fair bit of history for..." he pauses, his face a conflicted mess. "Personal matters." He finally settles on for an answer.

"So what was a Lordvessel?" you ask. "How was it related to the fire?"

"The Lordvessel was used to store the Souls of the Lords in order to grant access to the Kiln." Hawkwood explains. "Or rather, it was, before the Lord Souls burned away into nothing." He turns. "The Throne system took its place after that. I'm afraid that's the extent of my knowledge on the matter, I doubt anyone's around who actually knows how those ancient systems worked." He says, sounding disappointed about it.

Thrones? Lords? Didn't the Fire Keeper mention those earlier? You note that down for later, because while you're really out of your depth here, it's probably some convoluted nonsense, seeing as everything else around here seems to run on that kind of logic, or rather, lack-thereof.

"As for the Coiled Sword," Hawkwood says as he approaches the old wooden door, before he looks back at you, "the Kingdom of Lothric near fetishized the linking of the flame, so the whole thing is probably just some symbolic bollocks. "

"So you do know about this place then?" you ask.

"No," Hawkwood scowls, "I know bits and pieces, but Lothric was after my time." He sighs "Now is there anything else you feel you need to know before we begin?"

"What do you know about where we are?" There's a pause as Hawkwood gives you a dirty look, before you speak up again. "Like, what should we expect to have to fight?" you clarify.

"Well, we should be on the High Wall of Lothric, so expect to be high up." He begins. "Lothric was supposedly a human kingdom, so expect to be facing mostly hollowed militiamen." So basically just normal dudes then. "Lothric also was known for its knights, so I'd imagine we may face some of them too." He shrugs. "Beyond that, I don't know."

"Now, once we leave here, I'm not sure where we'll find ourselves, so be ready." He moves to open the door.

"Wait!" you call out. As he turns back to face you, you continue. "Before that," you suggest, "we should probably have a plan ready."

Hawkwood nods, seeming surprised at the suggestion. Or maybe he's surprised that it came from you. "That's actually a good point. I'll take point. My sword has plenty of reach, but I can't swing properly without some room." He sighs, as his face seems to go distant for a moment. "Besides it's not like I can do much else." He mutters something about 'abyss watchers' and 'stupid daggers' but you don't quite catch all of it.

"Are you sure? I coul-" you begin, only for Hawkwood to interrupt you.

"I'm not using a child as a shield." He states flatly. "I may be a deserter, but I still have some decency."

[] Try and convince Hawkwood to let you take point.
- What do you say to try and convince him?
[] Have Hawkwood take point.
[] Write In

[] Get moving, you've spent enough time standing around.
-[] Head out through the door.
-[] Scout out the area ahead by climbing through the hole in the roof (Requires convincing Hawkwood to let you take point)
[] Wait, before we leave...
- [] What do you want to do?
[] Write In
 
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Honestly, Hawkwood could probably solo the next several areas without any input from us. Depending on your build, he can be a more difficult fight than some bosses, maybe even some Lords. He may be a whiner, but the man's no slouch.

I suppose he might have leveled up a bit after leaving the shrine, though. I've never tried attacking him in the shrine, so I don't know what he does if you do.
 
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[X] Have Hawkwood take point.
-[X] You've not fought together before, and it'd be pretty bad if you forced Hawkwood into a position where he couldn't fight like he's used to.
-[X] That being said, you ARE a Magical Girl, with superhuman-ish strength and speed. You've fought some pretty scary things before, too. You don't know about these knights, and you mean to take everything seriously out here, but you don't intend to make Hawkwood have to do all the work if you need to defend yourself.
-[X] Maybe you could throw swords at people? That's a joke, but only partially.

[X] Get moving, you've spent enough time standing around.
-[X] Head out through the door.

Sorry for not posting last time. Anyhow, Hawkwood is someone who definitely could have been an Abyss Watcher if he'd wanted to. As in, the boss fight guys. He could probably solo this level, yeah. That being said, we still shouldn't take him for granted or anything; luck is a thing, and so is bad luck, and it'd be pretty bad if he tripped and got stabbed when he was down.

The intent of my vote is to let him fight like he's used to, but to also figure out where somebody who's really really fast and really really strong, but seemingly not too durable, fits into that. We're an HP tank rather than an armor or a dodge tank, but that's really expensive and not viable now that there's not a witch on every corner, so we'll need to focus probably more on being careful and stabbing things in the face before they can stop us. Or maybe we can just throw our swords at people really hard, I don't know, I don't think they're that expensive, and nothing stops us from reusing them afterwards.

There's nothing left to do in this room, so while things may be switched up I'm not expecting an ambush. If there's not one, we move the story forward, which is good, and if there is one the story moves forward and also the layout of the level is different, which means surprises.
 
[X] Have Hawkwood take point.
-[X] You've not fought together before, and it'd be pretty bad if you forced Hawkwood into a position where he couldn't fight like he's used to.
-[X] That being said, you ARE a Magical Girl, with superhuman-ish strength and speed. You've fought some pretty scary things before, too. You don't know about these knights, and you mean to take everything seriously out here, but you don't intend to make Hawkwood have to do all the work if you need to defend yourself.
[X] "Fine, but remember I did beat Gundyr by myself. I'm not just going to stand around if a bunch of monsters attack. Expect support stabbings."
-[X] Maybe you could throw swords at people? That's a joke, but only partially.

[X] Get moving, you've spent enough time standing around.
-[X] Head out through the door.

My only concern is this leaves Sayaka a bit short on Souls for the first area, and as it turns out we need to level. Hence my addition.
 
[X] Try and convince Hawkwood to let you take point.
-[X] You're more agile and can reach places he can't.
[X] Get moving, you've spent enough time standing around.
-[X] Scout out the area ahead by climbing through the hole in the roof (Requires convincing Hawkwood to let you take point)
 
Voted closed.
Adhoc vote count started by RecurringExtra on Jun 26, 2019 at 11:38 AM, finished with 6 posts and 3 votes.

  • [X] Get moving, you've spent enough time standing around.
    [X] Have Hawkwood take point.
    -[X] You've not fought together before, and it'd be pretty bad if you forced Hawkwood into a position where he couldn't fight like he's used to.
    -[X] That being said, you ARE a Magical Girl, with superhuman-ish strength and speed. You've fought some pretty scary things before, too. You don't know about these knights, and you mean to take everything seriously out here, but you don't intend to make Hawkwood have to do all the work if you need to defend yourself.
    -[X] Maybe you could throw swords at people? That's a joke, but only partially.
    -[X] Head out through the door.
    [X] "Fine, but remember I did beat Gundyr by myself. I'm not just going to stand around if a bunch of monsters attack. Expect support stabbings."
    [X] Try and convince Hawkwood to let you take point.
    -[X] You're more agile and can reach places he can't.
    -[X] Scout out the area ahead by climbing through the hole in the roof (Requires convincing Hawkwood to let you take point)
 
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