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Blood of the Frontier (CK2) Completed.

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Lucy said:
I assume our forces are trying to push them towards the fortress to limit the mongols Calvary movability and to receive help from the fortress. Is this correct
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The final prep turn is going to be setting objectives to your flanks and choosing battle formations.
 
Lucy said:
I assume our forces are trying to push them towards the fortress to limit the mongols Calvary movability and to receive help from the fortress. Is this correct
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Not really. Our plan is to basically encircle the Mongols by drawing them into striking at our center ranks, which we have filled with squishy ranged units (with a limited amount of infantry there for support). Then, once they've been drawn into a close-quarters engagement (which they're going to want to do, unless they like getting peppered with massed archer and cannon fire) with our center, we wheel the two more powerful flanks around the side in order to either wholly or partially envelop our foes. Chasing after the Mongols is too risky, since they can easily outrun and outmaneuver our infantry (and we do not possess enough cavalry to make engaging them on their terms feasible), which will allow them to isolate and pick off small groups at their leisure. We're also hoping that by drawing the Mongols away from the fortresses, we'll provide Fulk's forces with a chance to sally forth and flank the Mongol hordes.
 
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Battle of Yamatau Battle Preparation Part 3: Objectives and Formations.
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    • Battle of Yamatau Battle Preparation Part 3: Objectives and Formations.

    Everything is ready. Now all you need to do is give the order and start the battle. But You need to be sure that you know how you are going to commit to this battle.

    What is the Objective of the Center:
    []Show them No Mercy and Fire at Will!: You will use your cannons, artillery, and skirmishers to control the center, keeping them at bay and away from the center's valuable cannons.
    []Draw Them In: You need to draw the Mongols into your center, pulling them in deep by falling back, allowing you to hopefully gain more control over the battlefield. Hopefully.
    []Hammer Time: The Fortress is going to be your anvil, Drive forward and crush them against the stone and arrows of Fulks Men.
    []Rescue Fulk: You need Fulks men on the battlefield relieve them.
    []Write in

    What is the Objective of the Left Flank:
    []Stand Firm: You will have your men stand their ground and take everything that comes at them.
    []Fold to the Back: Fold on back to prevent your army from being outflanked.
    []Drive Forward: Send the men forward around the enemy, try to draw them away from the center.
    []Rescue Fulk: You need Fulks men on the battlefield relieve them.
    []Write in

    What is the Objective of the Right Flank:
    []CHARGE!: You shall thunder upon the bastards with such speed that the Mongols will not expect it.
    []Harrass The Siege Lines: Strike at the siege camp, set fire to the Mongols loot and sow chaos as their tents.
    []Rescue Fulk: You need Fulks men on the battlefield relive them.
    []Write in


    Now all you need to do is choose your formation for the battle:
    []Line Formation
    []Colum Formation
    []Wedge Formation
    []Diamond Formation
    []Inverted Wedge Formation
    []Square formation
    []Write in

    AN: I know not as long as usual but I want to get this battle.

    There is a 4 Hour Moratorium on Voting for discussion and planning.

    Edit: Please Vote in Plan Format, please.
     
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    • Diamond formation would probably be best, forces them to ignore the flanks and go head on into the centre, before we fold the flanks around later.
     
    Which plan of engagement won? Icant remember the specifics, but it seems that people are mixin up what they voted for and what actually won?


    Ill vote later when the confusion lifts.
     
    Ok, we need something to be able to draw them in, then smash them. Otherwise they will escape due to horses. We need a Taisty bait, and a trap, then a large amount of cross fire.
     
    So how long will the battle last before we have the option of trying to change tactics? I ask because it would be nice to have the center fire at will before they start trying to drawing the Mongols in.

    As for the other two flanks, my current idea would be to have the left stand firm until we know if the Mongols are going to take the bait, and then drive forward. As for the right flank, part of me wants to have them go try to rescue Fulk, since they are going to be the quickest to move (plus, we have Vasily's Organizer trait to aid them in that endeavor), and having Fulk's forces to hit them in the rear would be a major advantage. As for a formation, an echelon left might not be a bad idea, since one the center started pulling back they would eventually fall into line with the left flank (not to mention it would mean that the cavalry would need to cover less ground to get to the fortress. On the other hand, the echelon right would place the left flank at the forefront, which would place them in an ideal position to flank the Mongols (provided they take the bait, of course).
     
    TimEd said:
    Which plan of engagement won? Icant remember the specifics, but it seems that people are mixin up what they voted for and what actually won?
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    You're thinking of another quest. In choosing the main commanders and the subcommanders/force disposition, there was only one plan proposed each time.
    EDIT:
    Magoose said:
    The battle is divided into three turns, with the end of each turn allowing you to change tactics.
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    At a penalty, unless you have Trickster.
     
    Always Late said:
    Are there any mechanical differences to the formations?
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    There are you just have to figure them out.:V

    But seriously though, each one can give a +20 when used against a certain unit type, and a -20 when used against another opposing unit type, BUT, the objective you choose or create can negate that penalty depending on what you choose as an objective, and how you react to the enemy once the starts.

    Think of falling your center back and wrapping your wings around to encircle your enemy ala Cannae. Or being the Hammer to Fulks Anvil.

    Battles are flexible and no plan survives first contact with the enemy. I am merely keeping that in mind so that if you choose the wrong formation your not completely screwed.
     
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    Hmmm... so after doing some light research, I noticed that one of the best formations for fighting cavalry was the square formation, since it makes it impossible for the enemy cavalry to successfully flank your people (provided your people remained disciplined enough to not just get baited into trying to chase down the horsemen, which was a common tactic employed by eastern armies, like the Mongols). The problem is, our entire right flank contains nothing but horsemen, who don't do so hot in combat if they are caught standing still. As a result, any formation that would rely on all three segments of our army holding fast is immediately out. I still stand by using one of the echelons, but I could also see using the inverted wedge (although the will leave our rear rather vulnerable to Mongol attack) or the line (which will rely almost entirely on the ability of our heavy infantry to maintain their composure) formations, since they'll make it easy for our flanks to back each other up.
     
    RandomMan01 said:
    Hmmm... so after doing some light research, I noticed that one of the best formations for fighting cavalry was the square formation, since it makes it impossible for the enemy cavalry to successfully flank your people
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    It's good when defending against charging cavalry. Not horse archers.
    RandomMan01 said:
    The problem is, our entire right flank contains nothing but horsemen, who don't do so hot in combat if they are caught standing still.
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    Think back to what I called the plan: Crab claws.

    This is not an army that is going to sit on its ass whole the Mongols run around it with arrows. This is an all-offensive army.
     
    Always Late said:
    It's good when defending against charging cavalry. Not horse archers.
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    Well yeah, but the Mongol army is not solely composed of horse archers, either. Historically, many of the Mongol men also carried lances and sabers with them in order to charge their enemy's ranks during battles. We need to make sure our troops are able to receive a charge from the Mongol forces.

    Always Late said:
    This is not an army that is going to sit on its ass whole the Mongols run around it with arrows. This is an all-offensive army.
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    Right, but the problem is that one of our flanks is not only equipped to receive a charge, but it is also much faster than the other two flanks, which means that whatever formation we choose is going to have to make it so our other two flanks are capable of making up for the poor defensibility of the other one.
     
    RandomMan01 said:
    Right, but the problem is that one of our flanks is not only equipped to receive a charge, but it is also much faster than the other two flanks,
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    That's like bitching about how an Abrams goes faster than a walking infantryman.
    RandomMan01 said:
    which means that whatever formation we choose is going to have to make it so our other two flanks are capable of making up for the poor defensibility of the other one.
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    Look, the only way whatever forces the cavalry hit are going to threaten the rest of the force is if they somehow run everybody around this massive stampede of steel and hooves, or they just outright beat us in a counter-charge+melee. You're overthinking things.
     
    Why can't the different groups have different formations? We could bombard them with our artillery before charging in with our heavy cavalry, and group 3 could move in to save Fulk while groups 1 and 2 fight the Mongols thus getting us needed reinforcements. I'm surprised no one gave Vasily command of the Center army seeing as he has the best martial.

    I'd like to have group 2 guard our flanks, but as someone mentioned: Horse archers. Though to be fair, if our heavy cav are armored decently, then arrows should have minimal effect.
     
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    Always Late said:
    Then she'd be the one out front, not him.
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    I think I'm missing something. Wouldn't she be at the front either way? She can't lead the Heavy cavalry if she's not leading them.

    Always Late said:
    We have generals better suited to each group taking overall command. Numbers are not everything, traits can make or break a battleplan.
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    Just looked at the traits, and yeah the setup works, my bad. Though the 40 martial of Vasily gets me super excited.
     
    Slaggedfire said:
    I think I'm missing something. Wouldn't she be at the front either way? She can't lead the Heavy cavalry if she's not leading them.
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    While Zima would be in the fighting either way, there's a difference in the amount of bodies an enemy would have to go through to get to her. She wouldn't be leading from the very front, is what I'm saying.
     
    Slaggedfire said:
    So she's not leading from the front, but from the back with a different unit of cavalry?
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    More like 'in the middle', but sure.

    Anyway, time for a vote to be finally made.

    [X]Plan Two-Hands
    -[X]Show them No Mercy and Fire at Will!: You will use your cannons, artillery, and skirmishers to control the center, keeping them at bay and away from the center's valuable cannons.
    -[X]Drive Forward: Send the men forward around the enemy, try to draw them away from the center.
    -[X]CHARGE!: You shall thunder upon the bastards with such speed that the Mongols will not expect it.
    -[X]Inverted Wedge Formation

    This is the offensive. The ranged units shall be at the rear of the formation, giving them more time to bombard the enemy. The cavalry flank shall be faster than the infantry flank, but it plays into the longer plan: One of the flanks will relieve Fulk, which requires a specific action. But right now, we need to take advantage of the first-turn disarray of the Mongols to inflict massive damage and break through. If the left flank becomes bogged down, then the right's overwhelming advantage can push through. If the enemy diverts forces to contain the right, then the left can be pushed through. if the center is threatened, then unengaged forces from the flanks can fall upon the enemy.
     
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