Best Game Ever | Dudley Quest [HP/The Gamer]

...You are implying the wizards in Harry Potter are smart enough to think about ways around magic resistance.
They pretty much have to don't they? I have the impression that most large magical beast in the HP world have some form of magical resistance. Dragons, Cerberus, Trolls, Giants, etc. all should have a little something.

@Qeqre Looking it up it seems that Ki and Mana actually are the same thing in the Gamer(c11). The main difference appears to be how it's used. Martial artist use a form of Inner Ki techniques.
 
The Gamer is not magic. It is not tech. It is its own thing, orthogonal to other things.

Harry potter-style wanded magic is a very specific area of endeavor, with its own built-up traditions, personae, and so forth. Getting into that pretty much requires showing up on the appropriate radars, getting sucked into the applicable storylines *very* early on, and so forth. It is defining. You are a wizard or you are not. A lot of us don't want to be a wizard.

We're Dudley. Much of our self-identity has been built around not being a freak like that. Our parents didn't really talk to us about what it meant, but the message came across loud and clear. As Dudley, especially, I could see a definite sort of pride in deciding that hey - we don't *need* wizardry. We can beat them without it.

Wizardry is easy-mode. It's the one tool that does everything - and as the Gamer, we're ridiculously good at learning things. If we go down the magic path, we'll almost inevitably wind up hugely overpowered, to the point that either we steamroll everything or newer and more threatening challenges have to be created just to have a hope of opposing us. Regardless of which it is, once we've given in to wand-wizardry and built up some competence at it, it'll almost inevitably be enough better than any other way we could solve problems that it will define our decision space except in those few cases where, for whatever reason, it's denied to us. Many of us don't want to play that game.

"Ridiculously powerful wizard" is something that the HP-world wizards can understand, accept, and deal with. "Muggle who somehow manages to flatten us all entirely without magic" isn't. It'll be a bit reality-breaking for them, and it's likely to be *hilarious*.

I have no problem with multiclassing. I like the idea of multiclassing. I just don't want "wand wizard" to be one of the classes we take.

Have some "why"s.

First, we can use magic without it being wand magic. Magic doesn't always equal wizard. Second, the Gamer is magic. It isn't wand magic, but that doesn't mean it isn't magic. Third,
I still think we can just sneak into diagon alley and just flat-out pick up some books briefly to get magic that way (the skills alone would be incredibly useful, if we can also combine stealth training with them so no one would be able to notice us doing magic).
Thus, no one will notice us, we can get out of the situation relatively freely, boom.
We get power without being dragged into dealing with Hogwarts or the larger Wizarding World.
Pretty much this. We don't need to join Hogwarts or find a wizardry mentor to do HP magic anyways. We just need to steal some books. I would rather we do wandless magic anyways, and that will blow wizards away just as much as caving their face In, possibly more. Imagine hiring then with trash cans using telekinesis or something. Unless you want to avoid lots of skills and serouisly restrict us, we are going to be using magic. Power strike is magic, FIST is magic. It isn't wand magic, but it is still magic.
 
Unless you want to avoid lots of skills and serouisly restrict us, we are going to be using magic. Power strike is magic, FIST is magic. It isn't wand magic, but it is still magic.

Now you are arguing semantics. I see a difference in kind between kung fu and wizardry. I am stoked about the former, and do not wish to have the latter (which I refer to as "magic"). Redefining the word "magic" to cover the lot of it does not either cause me to not see a difference in kind between them or cause me to suddenly like the latter or dislike the former as options for this quest. I suspect that there are at least a few others like me in this.
 
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The discussion about the GM was really clever, and as far as I'm aware, something The Gamer crossovers tend not to deal with. If Dudley is getting quests, who is giving them? Who is the GM of his reality? It's rather disturbing to think about .

X] Yes. "You've got it. I'll decide when later."
[X] Yes. "Sure, why not."

[X] [Recess] Gorden Advice- Gordon agreed to get you some advice from his brother. Badger him for it.
[X] [Recess] A Dennis of Thieves- Tell Dennis that you'll meet him after school. [Requires quest acceptance. Required for Quest: Five Finger Discount]
[X] [Recess] Dungeons and Malcolms- Stuff the D&D book into your backpack, and go over it with Malcolm during Recess. [Unlocks Quest: (Meta)Gaming pt 2. Not required if Quest: (Meta)Gaming is selected for After School]

[X] [After school] Quest: Five Finger Discount- Meet up with Dennis and learn how to nick stuff. [Requires quest acceptance and spending an action on 'A Dennis of Thieves']
[X] [After school] Boxing Practice- Daddy signed you up for classes, but you don't have to go if you don't want to.
[X] [After school] Do... Ugh... Homework.
 
Now you are arguing semantics. We see a difference in kind between kung fu and wizardry. We are stoked about the former, and do not wish to have the latter (which we call "magic"). Redefining the word "magic" to cover the lot of it does not either cause us to not see a difference in kind between them or cause us to suddenly like the latter or dislike the former.

I think we have different definitions of magic.

I don't particularly care for this,
(Although, I wouldn't pass up the chance if it was placed in front of us).

I want this,
And this
And this
AND this

What is wrong with that? (Not that I expect to get any of these any time soon).
 
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I think we have different diffentions of magic.


...

What is wrong with that? (Not that I expect to get any of these any time soon).

I agree we have different definitions. Thus the bit about "arguing over semantics".

Nothing's wrong with wanting those things. I personally would prefer that Dudley not pick up the first two (which I would class as "magic"), rather like the idea of the next two (both of which the Gamer can develop via pushing mortal skills to ridiculous levels), and can't actually load the last one.

There's a big difference between "Why can't I want what I want?" (what you're saying now) and "You shouldn't want what you want. You should agree to what I want instead." (what you were saying before). If you wish to live in peace with your opinion, then you have my blessing. Be at peace. If you wish to convince me and mine that we should take your opinion as our own, however, then you must be prepared to deal with some disagreement.
 
I agree we have different definitions. Thus the bit about "arguing over semantics".

Nothing's wrong with wanting those things. I personally would prefer that Dudley not pick up the first two (which I would class as "magic"), rather like the idea of the next two (both of which the Gamer can develop via pushing mortal skills to ridiculous levels), and can't actually load the last one.

There's a big difference between "Why can't I want what I want?" (what you're saying now) and "You shouldn't want what you want. You should agree to what I want instead." (what you were saying before). If you wish to live in peace with your opinion, then you have my blessing. Be at peace. If you wish to convince me and mine that we should take your opinion as our own, however, then you must be prepared to deal with some disagreement.
I am curious, what di you have against magic? Not just HP magic, but magic in general?

In my opinion, taking physical skills to the extreme, to the point where you can do DBZ stuff, is no less magical then telekinesis, since, it is simply something a normal human, no matter how much they train, can't do. Also, the last one is a hand shooting fire.
 
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[X] Yes. "You've got it. I'll decide when later."
[X] Yes. "Sure, why not."
[X] [Recess] Gorden Advice- Gordon agreed to get you some advice from his brother. Badger him for it.
[X] [Recess] A Dennis of Thieves- Tell Dennis that you'll meet him after school. [Requires quest acceptance. Required for Quest: Five Finger Discount]
[X] [Recess] Dungeons and Malcolms- Stuff the D&D book into your backpack, and go over it with Malcolm during Recess. [Unlocks Quest: (Meta)Gaming pt 2. Not required if Quest: (Meta)Gaming is selected for After School]
[X] [After school] Quest: Five Finger Discount- Meet up with Dennis and learn how to nick stuff. [Requires quest acceptance and spending an action on 'A Dennis of Thieves']
[X] [After school] Boxing Practice- Daddy signed you up for classes, but you don't have to go if you don't want to.
[X] [After school] Do... Ugh... Homework.
 
I think the obvious problem with sneaking into diagon alley or taking Harry's books is that we can't actually learn skill books at will. We have to actually meet the stat requirements of the skill before learning it. If we decide be a warrior it'll be hard to gain the intelligence and wisdom needed for high level magic without sinking all of our bonus stats into them. On the other hand if we go to Hogwarts we'll probably gain them naturally during schooling.
 
...You are implying the wizards in Harry Potter are smart enough to think about ways around magic resistance.
There was this one kid who had the bright idea of levitating a troll's club out of it's hand and then dropping it on it's head, and there are 'Magical Creatures' such as Giants and Dragons that have innate resistance to magic [Hence Dragon-hide gear and needing an entire team of wizards to Stupify Hagrid]

Of course, the only way known in Canon to develop such a trait is to have non-human heritage. This may be somewhat difficult to obtain, as it were.
 
I think the obvious problem with sneaking into diagon alley or taking Harry's books is that we can't actually learn skill books at will. We have to actually meet the stat requirements of the skill before learning it. If we decide be a warrior it'll be hard to gain the intelligence and wisdom needed for high level magic without sinking all of our bonus stats into them. On the other hand if we go to Hogwarts we'll probably gain them naturally during schooling.
Why is it that you believe that muggle schooling is fundamentally less effective than Hogwarts?
I am curious, what di you have against magic? Not just HP magic, but magic in general?

In my opinion, taking physical skills to the extreme, to the point where you can do DBZ stuff, is no less magical then telekinesis, since, it is simply something a normal human, no matter how much they train, can't do. Also, the last one is a hand shooting fire.

In general? Nothing. I think that pure mages are overplayed in many cases, and I tend not to play them.

In messageboard quests in general? The fact that there is a group of people who will relentlessly advocate for magic under all circumstances annoys me, especially since gaining magic has a tendency to warp the shape of any quest it's a part of. Those quests where the protagonist gains magical abilities frequently become *about* those abilities, to the detriment of other areas of exploration and inquiry.

Additionally, I think the problem-solving space is often richer for not having magic in it. Magic simplifies and trivializes many problems (which problems depends on what the magic is) and while in a normal world that might be matched by having it create its own interesting problem spaces, those spaces are not nearly so fleshed out (as they don't exist in the real world). To give a bit of perspective... if we were trying to run a quest in the early 1980s, and we posited a reasonably accurate idea of the internet, we'd probably be able to guess that it would trivialize many information-gathering tasks. We probably would *not* have thought about the dangers of your personal information being acquired and exploited, or the potential issue of having your life crushed via public shaming because you tweeted improperly. This isn't so much of an issue in books, because "problem space" isn't nearly the same sort of thing when you're doing it all yourself. The space of answers that the protagonist could have come up with is not nearly so important as the space of answers that they *did* come up with, and you can either come up with rules on the fly as they are needed, which then turn out to always have been true, or you can come up with an in-depth world in your head, which you then share as much as you need to to keep the story going. In a messageboard quest, you have to work with what you can share on text, over the internet, in your free time. In-depth worldbuilding gets to be kind of limited in that situation... which means that being able to cheat off of a shared understanding of reality has real value.

Similarly, the lack of design resources means that magic is often OP. Gamer-style games aren't ever going to be *low*-power, but I'd prefer a game where we are still having to think about the consequences of our actions, rather than steamrolling all opposition.

For this quest in particular? This is *Dudley*. He has reason to hate/fear/dislike mages. The most important people in his life are his parents, who absolutely do hate/fear/dislike mages (with excellent reason). The Wizarding World as a whole is basically an enormous prat, and I'd like to see them taken down a notch or five by someone who gained powers in spite of them, rather than by buying into their power system. I want the plot and the characters and so forth to be something other than "following the books". I've seen plenty of examples of "A new OC (or OC-equivalent) goes to Hogwarts" and I don't want this to turn into another. I think that Dudley Gamer Quest could go to awesome new places, and I don't want to see that quashed by the old sameness of wizards and Hogwarts.
 
For this quest in particular? This is *Dudley*. He has reason to hate/fear/dislike mages. The most important people in his life are his parents, who absolutely do hate/fear/dislike mages (with excellent reason). The Wizarding World as a whole is basically an enormous prat, and I'd like to see them taken down a notch or five by someone who gained powers in spite of them, rather than by buying into their power system. I want the plot and the characters and so forth to be something other than "following the books". I've seen plenty of examples of "A new OC (or OC-equivalent) goes to Hogwarts" and I don't want this to turn into another. I think that Dudley Gamer Quest could go to awesome new places, and I don't want to see that quashed by the old sameness of wizards and Hogwarts.
Why does Dudley have reason to hate mages? As far as I know, he has never met any and since his parents refuse to discuss anything unnatural, I doubt he has heard anything about the Wizarding World from them.

As for his parents hating mages with excellent reason... Why again? Petunia had her sister killed, true. And they had a child dumped on them, true. Other than that, what else is there?

I agree totally with you about the Wizarding World though. I am not sure how you would take them down a notch without some form of magic though. They are likely going to refuse to admit your superiority at anything and just try to ignore and cover things up.

I have no problem with staying away from Hogwarts. I think avoiding magic in general though isn't viable long term. We may be resistant to mind magics and memory alterations - our parent, not so much.
 
Why does Dudley have reason to hate mages? As far as I know, he has never met any and since his parents refuse to discuss anything unnatural, I doubt he has heard anything about the Wizarding World from them.

As for his parents hating mages with excellent reason... Why again? Petunia had her sister killed, true. And they had a child dumped on them, true. Other than that, what else is there?

I agree totally with you about the Wizarding World though. I am not sure how you would take them down a notch without some form of magic though. They are likely going to refuse to admit your superiority at anything and just try to ignore and cover things up.

I have no problem with staying away from Hogwarts. I think avoiding magic in general though isn't viable long term. We may be resistant to mind magics and memory alterations - our parent, not so much.

Dudley's reason to hate mages: his parents have basically drummed into him his entire life that Harry is a freak - that freakish stuff happens around him sometimes, and that this is Bad and Wrong, and justifies mistreating him. He will have absolutely internalized this by this point. He may not know what the World of Freaks calls itself, or who's in it, but as soon as someone starts throwing around magic, he'll recognize it for what it is.

His parent's excellent reasons: Aside from whatever jealousy issues Petunia may have had growing up, there's the fact that James Potter and his little band of thugs ruthlessly tormented Vernon (and quite possibly Petunia as well - I don't recall) when they were attending Lily's wedding - making it clear that they basically saw him as a person entirely without value. I believe that public mockery and levitation charms were involved. Lily did not prevent this. James was an asshole. He never really stopped being an asshole. He just learned to clean up nice for the pretty girl, and then died a martyr. Sirius was *also* an asshole, but he lived long enough, and fell far enough, to grow out of it some.

Taking them down a notch: Savagely beating down Death Eaters with your bare hands (and thrown pebbles), for a start... and then utterly embarrassing the folks sent to make you forget that it had happened.

Our parents are going to be vulnerable to attack no matter *what* we do. Gaining magic isn't going to change that... other than possibly by having them try to kick us out of the house.
 
@Qeqre Looking it up it seems that Ki and Mana actually are the same thing in the Gamer(c11). The main difference appears to be how it's used. Martial artist use a form of Inner Ki techniques.

So in other words this:
I think that MP is just magic but the Gamer power automatically converts any other type of energy manipulation into MP. It's not that the Gamer has Ki. It's just that whatever Ki skills he learns change to function with MP.
Is pretty much wrong and this:
That would require it to first configure all forms of usable energy into one type before shaping that type to fit a specific mold(magic) and converting all learned skills to function based off that mold.

Occam's razor, changing MP to turn into magic specifically is a redundant step in the process unless magic is the default baseline form of energy for the universe.
Is pretty much correct?

If mp is the baseline form of energy and everything is just naming convention, that means that the gamer has ki and that it isn't converted into magic because it's already the same form of energy.

Taking Occam's razor, if it gets converted once, there's no need to convert it a second time.

If it's pretty much all naming convention? Than MP is the array that contains magic, ki etc. Which I've also pointed out here:
I'm saying we can't know for sure if MP=Magic or if MP is the array that contains magic/ki/etc...

The Manwha has everything converted to MP which is indicative of Ki in the Chunbumoon fighters and mana in the various mages in the Manwha.

The outright source material, contrary to your claim does not "work exactly like that" Rather, the source material has it listed as "MP" which can be increased independent of INT through Ki exercise and which benefits from Mana affinities. It's still listed as MP though. Not "magic" or "mana" Just MP.

Do we call it magic? No. Our HUD calls it MP. Does that mean we automatically receive a Hogwarts letter? We don't know since we don't know the exact means of detection(signs point to accidental magic use and we don't know if we've done any so far).

Basically my stance on it is this:
Whether or not we get a Hogwarts letter is something we can handle as it comes, when it comes and if it comes. What matters is that we've multiclassed extensively beforehand.

As it comes.
When it comes.
If it comes.

Which is something I've been trying to convey for pretty much the entire discussion. An excruciatingly simple concept that some people keep failing to grasp.
 
Uh @Sirrocco where did you read that about the wedding? Having checked the wiki it actually states that Petunia didn't attend the wedding and presumably Vernon didn't attend as well if so.
 
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Why is it that you believe that muggle schooling is fundamentally less effective than Hogwarts?
Because it's obvious? We're talking about at developing intelligence and wisdom stats. In Jee Hans entire class the only people with notable intelligence were the class president who was something of a genius and the other people in the abyss. On the other hand intelligence and wisdom also correspond with magical abilities. Those stats are likely the only reason Harry is level 3. Improving magic should improve the stats.

@Qeqre something like that.
 
Man, is it just me or does HP fanon get slung around as practically canon all the time?

...You are implying the wizards in Harry Potter are smart enough to think about ways around magic resistance.
They are actually, a number of magical creatures demonstrate strong magic resistance, which wizards deal with in a number of ways direct(focus fire to smash through with firepower), precise(go for the eyes!) and indirect(animating statues to do it for you)

As for Dudley's reaction, it'd be a mix of Powers Are Awesome, and Don't Be A Freak. He himself seems to react positively to weirdness from our PoVs so far, his concerns of being a freak more tied to his parents' reactions. Depending on how we grow him, he might very well wind up doing the superhero thing where he's a freak in disguise and normal otherwise.
 
*yawns* well, to skip yet another thread rebrowsing, what is the most popular "antimagical" option for the current vote in the quest?
Thanks in advance.
 
the fact that James Potter and his little band of thugs ruthlessly tormented Vernon (and quite possibly Petunia as well - I don't recall) when they were attending Lily's wedding - making it clear that they basically saw him as a person entirely without value. I believe that public mockery and levitation charms were involved.
Yeah no, this never happened. They don't have good reasons to hate magic beyond Petunia's jealousy of her sister and Vernon's aversion for anything slighty out of "normalcy". At least Petunia does seem to feel some obligation to let Harry live in her house, while Vernon feels nothing at all, and even throws him out of the house during a Dementor attack.
 
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His parent's excellent reasons: Aside from whatever jealousy issues Petunia may have had growing up, there's the fact that James Potter and his little band of thugs ruthlessly tormented Vernon (and quite possibly Petunia as well - I don't recall) when they were attending Lily's wedding - making it clear that they basically saw him as a person entirely without value. I believe that public mockery and levitation charms were involved. Lily did not prevent this.

Where are getting this from? From what I remember, they didn't attend the wedding, and I am absolutely certain that this didn't happen.
 
His parent's excellent reasons: Aside from whatever jealousy issues Petunia may have had growing up, there's the fact that James Potter and his little band of thugs ruthlessly tormented Vernon (and quite possibly Petunia as well - I don't recall) when they were attending Lily's wedding - making it clear that they basically saw him as a person entirely without value. I believe that public mockery and levitation charms were involved. Lily did not prevent this. James was an asshole. He never really stopped being an asshole. He just learned to clean up nice for the pretty girl, and then died a martyr. Sirius was *also* an asshole, but he lived long enough, and fell far enough, to grow out of it some.
The fanon is strong in this one. This never happened. Vernon and Petunia didn't even attend Lily and James's wedding.
 
They pretty much have to don't they? I have the impression that most large magical beast in the HP world have some form of magical resistance. Dragons, Cerberus, Trolls, Giants, etc. all should have a little something.
Canonically their method is "have twenty wizards teleport at the same time around the dragon, and then have all of them cast stupify on it at the same time"

Now you are arguing semantics. I see a difference in kind between kung fu and wizardry. I am stoked about the former, and do not wish to have the latter (which I refer to as "magic"). Redefining the word "magic" to cover the lot of it does not either cause me to not see a difference in kind between them or cause me to suddenly like the latter or dislike the former as options for this quest. I suspect that there are at least a few others like me in this.
Power strike isn't kung fu, it is a skill that uses mana to boost the damage of a strike, if we perform it when out of mana it will come out as a regular strike, aka it is flat out magic.

Martial arts that don't consume mana would be non magical (although we acquired them through the magic of the gamer instead of decades of training).
 
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...You are implying the wizards in Harry Potter are smart enough to think about ways around magic resistance.
... Bashing alert.

And they do work on that. Why do you think literally every supernatural magical creature on the plaent is their bitch and masquerade compliant even the ones they can't kill.
Canonically their method is "have twenty wizards teleport at the same time around the dragon, and then have all of them cast stupify on it at the same time"
.
So use superior numbers and mobiility to concentrate fire power on a hard target they want to subdue and not maim or severely damage?
 
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