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Belated Battleships (KanColle) [REHOST]

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SaltyWaffles said:
If you think a fleet carrier doesn't need to know ASW, you're dead wrong. Submarines are tied with other carriers for being the greatest threat to a fleet carrier. Flying ASW CAP is something a fleet carrier should be doing often whenever in waters where a sub can be lurking.

Hell, you know what the very first Japanese warship to be sunk in WW2 was? A submarine. By Enterprise. Shortly after the attack on Pearl Harbor, too. And either Lexington, Yorktown, or Saratoga also found and attacked another Japanese sub around that same time, albeit without any real success.
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As opposed to early British efforts which cost them Courageous.
 
Courageous Glorious was an antique, but still...not the RN's best moment.

EDIT: And yes, even if Ze Germans aren't back, that is totally getting worked into the Europe bits.

(and it's easy to get her mixed up with her sister. Both not exactly the best showings of the Brits)
 
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Nicholas said:
Cross-posting an idea from the SB thread:

So I had an idea for White's next lesson:
"What to do When You Come Under Attack"
(or "How to Massively Decrease Your Chances of Dying in the Next Five Seconds")!

"Step One: Clear Your Deck!" Everything that's on your deck? Get it off! Doesn't matter what its armed with or how much fuel its got, all that matters is that as long as it's on your deck you've got something very flammable and/or explosive in plain view of the enemy. Pilots can be recovered and planes replaced, but when there's the imminent possibility of you getting hit in the near future, the only important is getting everything flammable/explosive far away from you!

"Step Two: Purge Your Lines!" As aircraft carriers we need a way of getting aviation fuel from our bunkers to our planes, but that can be a big liability if you get hit, as that just spreads all the fiery stuff around! Clear your Avgas lines and store it all back in the bunkers; that dramatically lessens the chance of you catching on fire! In the Battle of the Coral Sea, Yorktown's crew prevented fires by flooding their avgas bunkers with Argon gas, a process soon copied on every American aircraft carrier; finding a system like that will also dramatically decrease your chances of horrible fiery death!

"Step Three: DODGE!" The worst thing to do when coming under attack is to just stand there and take it, and there are far less painful places to take a hit than right on the nose! Remember the five D's: dodge, dip, dive, duck, and dodge! Why dodge twice? Because you do it twice as much! Dodging throws off the enemy's aim; it turns direct hits into glancing hits, and turns several hits into only a few. Dodging is how Enterprise survived: you'd hit her, badly even, but thanks to dodging she was never hit badly enough to sink. Yeah it may seem undignified running around when the enemy's above you, but dignity only matters when you're alive!

Possible reactions I can see:
Hosho: *nods
Shokaku: *note taking
Zuikaku: above, with smirks
Akagi: empty smile as she slowly realizes just how far the Americans had come that such knowledge has spread down to the escorts, let alone the fleet
Kaga: *Kaga.exe is currently experiencing "EVERYTHING I KNOW IS WROOONNNG"; please try again later.*
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theJMPer said:
Heermann rested her arms on the rim of the hot tub and smiled. She honestly couldn't be happier. Her sisters—and little Sammy too!—were snuggled around her like a whole fleet of soft teddy bears. Her belly was full of fresh warm toast and her very favoritest food: scrambled eggs with plenty of pepper and just a dash of salt.

Even the wounds on her legs had dulled away. Gone were the shooting pains she'd felt every time the tattered steel twisted the wrong way. Instead, the stumpy remains of her shins just… tingled. The teeny torches and grinders of her faeries tickled the insides of her skin as they went about preparing her for a step-stagger weld.

It felt like someone was touching her with a feather, but in a kind of way where they could pretend they weren't touching her at all the instant someone with authority noticed.

But the thing that made her happiest of all were the antics going on over in the swimming pool. Miss Musashi and Jersey were busy brawling in the water. But not in the violent kind of way battleships normally brawled while they were in the water. It was a playful brawl, like the kind that Heermann and her sisters would get up to—at least when Gale wasn't looking.

Jersey was having fun! Heermann couldn't help but giggle as she saw her very favoritest momboat thrashing miss Musashi around the water! Heermann didn't remember much from… from the time after she was hit. But she knew her Jersey had been really sad. She didn't know how she knew, but it was just a feeling.

Something in the big battleship broke in the Bering sea. But now it was fixed! Jersey wasn't fretting over Heermann's stumpy legs anymore, she was… she was being herself.

It made Heermann's day—probably her whole week—when the little destroyer saw Jersey's face split into a smile. She loved her momboat's smile. It wasn't pretty or elegant, but the lopsided grin that pushed Jersey's cheeks up so far she was almost squinting was just the cutest thing Heermann'd ever seen! Jersey didn't wear it often, but she looked so happy when she did.

Things only got better when Tenryuu—her second favorite momboat—and the Japanese destroyers came in with lunch.

Unlike her sisters, who ate nothing but traditional American food, Heermann's service with the Argentinians had given her a more refined palate. But she was still an American at heart. She loved burgers with every fiber of her heart. If she had a heart. She still wasn't quite sure where the 'girl' ended and the 'ship' began.

But that was a question for another time. A time when there were not burgers. Mmmm…. burgers…

The Japanese girls—except Naka and the destroyers who'd been stationed in Washington—froze at the sight of that much hearty food. Musashi stared longingly at the trays. Mutsu cuddled her belly while her eyes started to tear up. Akagi stared slack-jawed at the trays and drooled.

Jersey, however, had no such hesitation. "C'mon!" she barked as she waded over to the pool side. She planted her hands on the smooth coral-green tile and pulled herself out of the water with a grunt, sending sheets of oily water cascading of her muscled back.

Heermann smiled at that. She might not be a battleship, but she could still be proud of all the perfect American Engineering that went into her flagship.

"Dig the fuck in!" barked Jersey as she piled up a small mountain's worth of burgers onto a tray.

The formerly-frozen Japanese ships in the pool erupted into a flurry of action. The pool churned white as every girl scrambled to the poolside with all the horsepower their plants could manage. There was some other stuff going on too, but Heermann was more preoccupied with watching Jersey walk over with lunch.

"Jersey!" Heermann threw her arms up in happiness at the sight of her beloved flagship—and the burgers in her arms.

"Are those for us?" Hoel pointed to the mountain of burgers-with-everything.

"You're the best!" cheered Sammy.

Johnston didn't say anything. She was too busy staring slack-jawed at the way Musashi's swimsuit supported—or failed to support—her main battery. At least until Hoel elbowed her in the ribs. "Ow, hey!"

"I did nothing," said Hoel with an angelic little smile.

Sammy's hand crashed against her face like an overweight pigeon encountering a skyscraper window for the first time.

Jersey blinked, frozen halfway through the process of setting her tray down next to the pool. "Little shits," she scowled. Or at least tried to scowl. That lopsided Jersey-smile stubbornly held its grasp on her face, so her attempt at scowling just made it even more lopsided.

"You love us though." Heermann reached out to hug Jersey's arm as tightly as she could.

"Oh, I love you, Heermann," Jersey leaned over the pile of burgers to heard her flotilla into a hug, "And you," she roped Hoel into the pile. "And you," Sammy giggled as she got added in too.

"What about me?" Johnston's feathers slumped into a pout that matched her screwed up little face.

"Nah," Jersey winked, "You're just a little shit."

"Aww…" Johnston hung her head in mock shame.

"A gullible little shit at that," said Jersey, "Get your perverted ass over here!"

"YAY!" Johnston darted over to join the group hug.

And then she had an idea. The kind of idea that could be shared with her sisters with nary more than a significant glance. The kind of idea that would get them all in sooo much trouble. But would be sooo worth it.

This was going to be epic.

"NOW!" barked Hoel.

At her command, the three Fletchers—plus little Sammy—pulled with all their might. Jersey was already leaning over the lip of the hot tub, they just… need… to… overbalance… her…

Heermann panted. This was harder than it looked. She was straining away with all her might, but Jersey wasn't even budging.

"Girls?" said the battleship.

"Yeah?" Johnston's face was beet red as she strained to topple the battleship into the tub.

"I displace fifty-seven thousand tons."

"And?" asked Hoel.

"All of you only displace seven thousand," said Jersey. The battleship made a show of casually taking a bite from her burger while her flotilla still struggled in vain to send her toppling into the water.

"Darn," said Heermann. It would've been so funny!

"We'll try it again later, don't worry!" cheered Johnston.

"Maybe White could help?" suggested Sammy.

Hoel sighed as she slumped back into the water. "I wonder what she's up to right now."

—|—|—

Fleet Carrier Kaga stood with her hands on her hips. Her fingers were carefully placed to present the appearance of her usual stoic calm without putting any pressure on the ragged flesh around her slowly-healing torpedo wounds. She might wince in pain every time she accidentally brushed her bruises, but she was a carrier of the Kido Butai. She would not—could not—show weakness. Especially not in front of the impressionable light carriers.

And so Kaga stood on the water, her eyes lidded as her scouts whirred across the surface, her ears attuned to the tiny hum of radial engines echoing against the tiled walls.

This had been a swimming pool once, a pool that Kaga could barely fit into—at least if she was in her rigging. Now, it was the base ASW training pool.

The modification had been extensive—and from what Kaga understood, quite expensive. The tiled surface of the pool had been covered with thick, rubbery mats to absorb echoes and muffle the engine noise of any lurking submarine. The water had been dyed a dull—and nearly opaque—ocean blue to further mask a submarine's shadow. Dotted thought the pool were obstacles and man-made sandbars, giving submarines places to hide, and places where the shallow bottom would force them to the surface.

But the expense had been well worth it. Days at sea—braving the ever-present threat of abyssal ships all the while—could be compressed into a few hours in the safety of the training pool. And all under the watchful eye of an instructor.

Kaga let out a hot breath. She'd found Iku lurking in the acoustic shadow of an island nearly half an hour ago, and her planes had been hammering the lewd girl's location with depth charges ever since.

Kaga scowled to no one in particular. It grated on her to spend so much time—even with the compression of operating without rigging—prosecuting a submarine that likely sunk after the first attack. She was a fleet carrier, she had more crucial things to take care of. She wanted nothing more than to break off and find something useful to do.

But Kaga refused to bow to the temptation. White's training had hammered the virtue of patience into the fleet carrier's soul. She would stay on-station until she knew Iku no longer presented a threat.

"Kaga-san!" Shigure, one of Kaga's escorting destroyers, tugged at the carrier's loose sleeve. "Hydrophone contact."

Kaga followed the slender line of the destroyer's finger. Whatever the destroyer heard, it wasn't Iku.

"Spotting a strike," said Kaga. Normally, she'd have simply vectored a few planes from the group already harassing Iku to sniff out the new contact. But White had—somewhat arbitrarily—declared that Kaga's fore elevator was jammed in the up position. She couldn't keep that many planes in the air, forcing her to improvise.

It was a skill she was still honing, but the fleet carrier was determined to practice until she could improvise with clockwork perfection.

Kaga felt faeries scramble along her deck as a flight of B6Ns were brought up to the flight deck to be fueled and armed. Kaga would've preferred to streamline the process by fueling and arming her planes in their hangers, but she fought back her instincts. She would not forget the lessons of Midway.

"Preparing to launch." Kaga drew her bowstring back with a quick yank. There was none of the graceful artistry she normally displayed; she simply pulled the string back far enough to get her plane in the air, then let fly.

Instead of letting the string flip around to her wrist, Kaga's fingers raced it to her bow, catching it moments after it sent her first arrow hurtling into the air. There was no time to do things gracefully, she need only do them fast.

Kaga caught the string with the thick leather of her glove and fished an arrow from the bundle held in her left hand. The deck-park technique White had shown her had almost made up the speed lost by fueling on deck. Almost.

Kaga was seconds away from letting her second B6N fly when she heard a frantic chatter coming from her faerie CAP. The carrier's eyes jolted to the miniaturized Reppus.

A flight of equally-tiny Avengers—backed up by a trio of Wildcat fighters and a giggling White Plains—screamed towards her with all the fury of their full-sized selves. During the war, this kind of situation would've sent even the level-headed Kaga into a panic.

But not today. Today, Kaga knew what to do. The carrier tossed her arrow into the pool. A fueled, armed torpedo bomber was nothing more than a very dangerous hazard if it was caught on deck. Instead, she reached for one of the fighter-arrows she clutched in her off-hand. The benefits of deck park; she always had a few spare Reppus on hand.

"Not today, White-sama," smiled Kaga. She felt her faeries scrambling to their battle stations. AA gunners manned their tiny mounts, while aviation crews secured ordnance and purged her avgas lines with inert gas. Kaga would not fall prey to—as White so eloquently put it—an "explosive fart."

"Is that sooo?" White giggled as her planes bore down Kaga with all the speed their tiny little engines could manage.

Kaga just nodded as she let her fighter-arrow fly.

—|—|—

Kaga sat motionless in Akashi's waiting room. Her back was straight as an ar- as a ramrod. Her features were perfectly still as she fumed in the most stoic manner possible. Sweat beaded along her eyebrows and flashed to steam against the burning heat of her temples.Her hands rested calmly in her lap, and her gaze was locked dead ahead.

"I'm not mad you know," said White with a smile so huge it threatened to leap off her face. The little carrier was as sweet as ever, even with an arrow embedded deep into her shoulder. If anything, she looked happier than she normally was.

Kaga let out a quick breath through her nose. The tendons in her neck went taut as she was forced once again to acknowledge her mistake. "I don't want to talk about it."
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>White's next lesson
>Step one: Clear your deck
>Step two: Purge your lines
SEMPAI NOTICED ME!
 
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Skywalker_T-65 said:
Courageous Glorious was an antique, but still...not the RN's best moment.

EDIT: And yes, even if Ze Germans aren't back, that is totally getting worked into the Europe bits.

(and it's easy to get her mixed up with her sister. Both not exactly the best showings of the Brits)
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That's one massive understatement.


The disaster and the failure to mount an effective rescue was clearly an embarrassment for the Royal Navy. All ships encountering the enemy should routinely broadcast a sighting report, and so the lack of a sighting report from Glorious was eventually raised in the House of Commons.[49] It later became known that the heavy cruiser HMS Devonshire had passed within 30–50 miles of the battle, flying the flag of Vice Admiral John Cunningham, who was carrying out orders to evacuate the Norwegian Royal Family to the UK and maintain radio silence. Some surviving eyewitnesses from Glorious and HMS Devonshire later testified that the sighting report had been correctly sent, and received by HMS Devonshire, but that it had been suppressed by Cunningham, who departed at high speed in accordance with his orders.[50] It has also been alleged by Howland that there was some confusion over the use of wireless telegraphy frequencies on board Glorious which could have contributed to the failure of any other ship or shore-station to receive a sighting report. Howland also cites the absence of normal airborne patrols over Glorious and its attendant destroyers, in conditions of maximum visibility, as a contributory factor to the sinking of Glorious and her escorts.[51]
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The commanding officer of Glorious, Captain Guy D'Oyly-Hughes, was a former submariner who had been executive officer of Courageous for ten months.[39] He was granted permission to proceed independently to Scapa Flow in the early hours of 8 June to hold a court-martial of his Commander (Air), J. B. Heath, who had refused an order to carry out an attack on shore targets on the grounds that the targets were at best ill-defined and his aircraft were unsuited to the task, and who had been left behind in Scapa to await trial.[38] On the way through the Norwegian Sea the funnel smoke from Glorious and her two escorting destroyers, Acasta and Ardent, was spotted by the German battleships Scharnhorst and Gneisenau at about 3:46 pm.[Note 3] The German ships were not spotted until shortly after 4:00 and Ardent was dispatched to investigate. Glorious did not alter course or increase speed. Five Swordfish were ordered to the flight deck but Action Stations was not ordered until 4:20. No combat air patrol was being flown, no aircraft were ready on the deck for quick take-off and there was no lookout in Glorious's crow's nest. Scharnhorst opened fire on Ardent at 4:27 at a range of about 16,000 yards (15,000 m), causing the destroyer to withdraw, firing torpedoes and making a smoke screen. Ardent scored one hit with her 4.7-inch (120 mm) guns on Scharnhorst but was hit several times by the German ships' secondary armament and sank at about 5:25.[40]

Scharnhorst switched her fire to Glorious at 4:32 and scored her first hit six minutes later on her third salvo, at an approximate range of 26,000 yards (24,000 m), when one 28.3-centimetre (11.1 in) hit the forward flight deck and burst in the upper hangar, starting a large fire. This hit destroyed two Swordfish being prepared for flight and the hole in the flight deck prevented any other aircraft from taking off.[41] Splinters penetrated a boiler casing and caused a temporary drop in steam pressure. At 4:58 a second shell hit the homing beacon above the bridge and killed or wounded the captain and most of the personnel stationed there. The smokescreen became effective enough to impair the visibility of the Germans from about 4:58 to 5:20 so they ceased fire on Glorious.[40]

Glorious was hit again in the centre engine room at around 5:20 and this caused her to lose speed and commence a slow circle to port. She also developed a list to starboard. The German ships closed to within 16,000 yards and continued to fire at her until about 5:40. Glorious sank at about 6:10,[40] approximately at 68°38′N 03°50′ECoordinates: 68°38′N 03°50′E,[42] with only 43 survivors.[43]

As the German ships approached Glorious, the destroyer Acasta, which had been trying to maintain the smokescreen, broke through her own smoke and fired two volleys of torpedoes at Scharnhorst. One of these hit the battleship at 5:34 abreast her rear turret and badly damaged her. Acasta also managed one hit from her 4.7-inch guns on Scharnhorst, but was riddled by German gunfire and sank at around 6:20.[40]
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In other words, in the middle of the day, in maximum visibility, a fleet carrier was spotted by a pair of battleships thirty-four minutes before said fleet carrier even went to action stations. Said fleet carrier didn't go to action stations despite sending a destroyer (one of only TWO--its entire goddamn screen, which is insane) off by itself to investigate something, didn't post a lookout, didn't have any planes in the air for patrol or even have planes ready for takeoff, and it didn't even maneuver at all.

The entire carrier group--well, the fleet carrier plus its two escorting destroyers--were sunk in less than two hours without so much as getting off a contact report to the nearby homeland. The RN didn't even know any of their ships had been lost until the Germans announced it later on. Out of the 1,500 or so sailors in the task force, only about 40 survived (five of whom were taken prisoner). About 900 men were estimated to have abandoned ship, but all of the 40 survivors were picked up by Norwegian ships, not British ones.

Considering that Glorious was the British equivalent to Saratoga...yeah, it was a humiliating disaster for the Royal Navy, and far from the only one it would suffer throughout WW2. The spectacular, abrupt, and total loss of the Hood; the quick, "what the fuck were you thinking?" loss of the Prince of Whales and Repulse to an unescorted air attack (without inflicting significant losses in return); Courageous being torpedoed and capsized because it sent half of its screen away to help a merchant ship whilst having no ASW CAP up for over two hours, then turning into the wind--right into the German submarine that had been stalking it undetected for two damn hours; Scharnhorst and Gneisenau (and Prinz Eugen, along with six destroyers) making the Channel Dash without sustaining significant damage (the British actually suffered more damage and more losses); the disaster of ABDACOM; and the first Indian Ocean Raid, in which a RN light carrier was sunk (it wasn't even carrying any planes! It was also given advanced warning of an incoming air attack, left port...and then returned to port later, where it was promptly sunk), 20+ RN merchant ships were sunk, along with two heavy cruisers, two destroyers, one light cruiser, and one corvette, all in exchange for inflicting no damage on enemy ships and only shooting down 17 aircraft (while losing 40 of their own).

Oh yeah, and worth noting: the loss of the Courageous got all British carriers pulled off of ASW duty. Which is embarrassing as all hell, since aircraft (especially when working in tandem with destroyers and carriers) are the natural predators of submarines during the daytime, so long as the weather/visibility is decent.

EDIT: Suffice to say, 1939, 1940, 1941, and 1942 were bad years for the Royal Navy.
 
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I would try and use the Barents as a refute for that, but it was on New Year's Eve '42. Still it wasn't a terrible showing from the RN, especially the destroyers.
 
The thing is the Glorious was actually reletativly new.

The hull was younger then Warspite when built. Then in the 1920s they were COMPLETELY rebuilt into carriers to such a point that they were new ships.

Honestly they are pushing for two different girls type of deal...

But yeah the RN in WW2 went so stupid they are still feeling the effects of it.

Example: New Carriers, the Queen Elizabeth class (And people say the USN reuse names a lot). No planes or pilots for them...

And is SB down for anyone else?
 
SaltyWaffles said:
That's one massive understatement.





In other words, in the middle of the day, in maximum visibility, a fleet carrier was spotted by a pair of battleships thirty-four minutes before said fleet carrier even went to action stations. Said fleet carrier didn't go to action stations despite sending a destroyer (one of only TWO--its entire goddamn screen, which is insane) off by itself to investigate something, didn't post a lookout, didn't have any planes in the air for patrol or even have planes ready for takeoff, and it didn't even maneuver at all.

The entire carrier group--well, the fleet carrier plus its two escorting destroyers--were sunk in less than two hours without so much as getting off a contact report to the nearby homeland. The RN didn't even know any of their ships had been lost until the Germans announced it later on. Out of the 1,500 or so sailors in the task force, only about 40 survived (five of whom were taken prisoner). About 900 men were estimated to have abandoned ship, but all of the 40 survivors were picked up by Norwegian ships, not British ones.

Considering that Glorious was the British equivalent to Saratoga...yeah, it was a humiliating disaster for the Royal Navy, and far from the only one it would suffer throughout WW2. The spectacular, abrupt, and total loss of the Hood; the quick, "what the fuck were you thinking?" loss of the Prince of Whales and Repulse to an unescorted air attack (without inflicting significant losses in return); Courageous being torpedoed and capsized because it sent half of its screen away to help a merchant ship whilst having no ASW CAP up for over two hours, then turning into the wind--right into the German submarine that had been stalking it undetected for two damn hours; Scharnhorst and Gneisenau (and Prinz Eugen, along with six destroyers) making the Channel Dash without sustaining significant damage (the British actually suffered more damage and more losses); the disaster of ABDACOM; and the first Indian Ocean Raid, in which a RN light carrier was sunk (it wasn't even carrying any planes! It was also given advanced warning of an incoming air attack, left port...and then returned to port later, where it was promptly sunk), 20+ RN merchant ships were sunk, along with two heavy cruisers, two destroyers, one light cruiser, and one corvette, all in exchange for inflicting no damage on enemy ships and only shooting down 17 aircraft (while losing 40 of their own).

Oh yeah, and worth noting: the loss of the Courageous got all British carriers pulled off of ASW duty. Which is embarrassing as all hell, since aircraft (especially when working in tandem with destroyers and carriers) are the natural predators of submarines during the daytime, so long as the weather/visibility is decent.

EDIT: Suffice to say, 1939, 1940, 1941, 1942, and 1943 were bad years for the Royal Navy.
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I would have to say calling Courageous, Glorious, or Furious equivalent to Lexington/Saratoga or Akagi and Kaga is a bit of a stretch. these three "Large Light Cruisers" had the speed of the battlecruiser conversions but were literally lightweights in comparison and it showed. Of course the fact that the Fleet Air Arm was badly hamstrung by the RAF also hindered these ships from being as effective in shaping doctrine the way their counterparts did.
 
Kiyone4ever said:
I would have to say calling Courageous, Glorious, or Furious equivalent to Lexington/Saratoga or Akagi and Kaga is a bit of a stretch. these three "Large Light Cruisers" had the speed of the battlecruiser conversions but were literally lightweights in comparison and it showed. Of course the fact that the Fleet Air Arm was badly hamstrung by the RAF also hindered these ships from being as effective in shaping doctrine the way their counterparts did.
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"Large light cruisers" was the term for battlecruisers. They were battlecruisers, through and through.

Being "lightweight" (as in, lacking much armor) isn't a significant problem for a carrier. Any fleet carrier coming under fire from two battleships' main guns is in serious fucking trouble, just as any fleet carrier eating several torpedoes is. Granted, having good torpedo protection is far more of a concern for fleet carriers than belt armor or deck armor, but the fact remains that Wasp sustained more torpedo hits than Courageous (and those hits were directly to her avgas tanks and magazines, too), but took far longer to sink and suffered substantially fewer casualties, despite displacing 8,000 fewer tons than Courageous. Products of an older design? Perhaps, but the fact remains that simply being "lighter" doesn't make a ship any worse-designed, managed, or DC'd.
 
SaltyWaffles said:
"Large light cruisers" was the term for battlecruisers. They were battlecruisers, through and through.

Being "lightweight" (as in, lacking much armor) isn't a significant problem for a carrier. Any fleet carrier coming under fire from two battleships' main guns is in serious fucking trouble, just as any fleet carrier eating several torpedoes is. Granted, having good torpedo protection is far more of a concern for fleet carriers than belt armor or deck armor, but the fact remains that Wasp sustained more torpedo hits than Courageous (and those hits were directly to her avgas tanks and magazines, too), but took far longer to sink and suffered substantially fewer casualties, despite displacing 8,000 fewer tons than Courageous. Products of an older design? Perhaps, but the fact remains that simply being "lighter" doesn't make a ship any worse-designed, managed, or DC'd.
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I should clarify: All seven of the WT carrier conversions were limited by the fact that they WERE conversions, they were also the test beds for figuring how to do it better in later designs, BUT the increased size of Lexington and Akagi could somewhat compensate for the less efficient internal arrangements when compared to the succeeding Yorktown and Soryu types. But Courageous was 16,000 tons smaller. This means less hangar space, less room for fuel and ordinance and simply a less capable platform altogether.

I was definitely not saying that Lexington would have been a good choice to have put in front of S and G, merely that the restricted utility of the British conversions compared to the American and Japanese ships leaves them as the poorer cousins in the family of WT carriers.
 
theJMPer said:
"I displace fifty-seven thousand tons."

"And?" asked Hoel.

"All of you only displace seven thousand," said Jersey. The battleship made a show of casually taking a bite from her burger while her flotilla still struggled in vain to send her toppling into the water.
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I laughed a good 10 minutes over this scene. I do this all the time with my family, but damn is it hilarous that Taffy 3 can't budge Jersey
 
Kiyone4ever said:
I should clarify: All seven of the WT carrier conversions were limited by the fact that they WERE conversions, they were also the test beds for figuring how to do it better in later designs, BUT the increased size of Lexington and Akagi could somewhat compensate for the less efficient internal arrangements when compared to the succeeding Yorktown and Soryu types. But Courageous was 16,000 tons smaller. This means less hangar space, less room for fuel and ordinance and simply a less capable platform altogether.

I was definitely not saying that Lexington would have been a good choice to have put in front of S and G, merely that the restricted utility of the British conversions compared to the American and Japanese ships leaves them as the poorer cousins in the family of WT carriers.
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There's really no excuse for
A) Sailing a fleet carrier around contested waters with a mere two destroyers as escort
B) Doing the above, only without any air cover, CAP, scouting patrols, or even planes ready for launching
C) Not even posting a single goddamn lookout
D) Not immediately going to action stations upon sighting a suspicious contact in contested waters
E) Sending half of your already-grossly-inadequate screen to investigate said contact
F) Not sending a contact report that you know will be received by anyone who could possibly respond, even if it means broadcasting it in the clear (because the enemy has already found you, and will be sending their contact report)

Simply put, it doesn't matter what carrier you have. You could have a goddamn Yorktown, but if you are literally not even bothering to maintain any awareness, readiness, or scouting, and you sail with a mere two destroyers as a screen, and you respond to an extremely suspicious and alarming situation with such slowness and laxness, you are going to get fucked over in short order. Technology, design, etc.---none of that came into play with Glorious' sinking. It was a mass of numerous glaring, inexcusable failures on even the basics of naval warfare, let alone carrier operation.

Similarly, Courageous was a case of bungling basic carrier operation so badly that you had over two hours in which you had no CAP up whatsoever while you're on ASW patrol. This is not a difficult thing--you simply launch another CAP before your first one comes in to land. If that had been the only mistake, it might be excusable, but sending half of your screen off to help a merchant ship whilst knowing that your only CAP was coming into land and you didn't have another one even close to ready is just pure carelessness. That her other escorts didn't detect a sub that had been stalking them for two hours straight just compounds the failure. All are understandable mistakes individually, but the first two knowingly committed together is definitely a massive lapse in judgment. It doesn't matter whether you've got a ship like Courageous or an escort carrier; the principles remain the same.
 
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SaltyWaffles said:
There's really no excuse for
A) Sailing a fleet carrier around contested waters with a mere two destroyers as escort
B) Doing the above, only without any air cover, CAP, scouting patrols, or even planes ready for launching
C) Not even posting a single goddamn lookout
D) Not immediately going to action stations upon sighting a suspicious contact in contested waters
E) Sending half of your already-grossly-inadequate screen to investigate said contact
F) Not sending a contact report that you know will be received by anyone who could possibly respond, even if it means broadcasting it in the clear (because the enemy has already found you, and will be sending their contact report)

Simply put, it doesn't matter what carrier you have. You could have a goddamn Yorktown, but if you are literally not even bothering to maintain any awareness, readiness, or scouting, and you sail with a mere two destroyers as a screen, and you respond to an extremely suspicious and alarming situation with such slowness and laxness, you are going to get fucked over in short order. Technology, design, etc.---none of that came into play with Glorious' sinking. It was a mass of numerous glaring, inexcusable failures on even the basics of naval warfare, let alone carrier operation.

Similarly, Courageous was a case of bungling basic carrier operation so badly that you had over two hours in which you had no CAP up whatsoever while you're on ASW patrol. This is not a difficult thing--you simply launch another CAP before your first one comes into land. If that had been the only mistake, it might be excusable, but sending half of your screen off to help a merchant ship whilst knowing that your only CAP was coming into land and you didn't have another one even close to ready is just pure carelessness. That her other escorts didn't detect a sub that had been stalking them for two hours straight just compounds the failure. All are understandable mistakes individually, but the first two knowingly committed together is definitely a massive lapse in judgment. It doesn't matter whether you've got a ship like Courageous or an escort carrier; the principles remain the same.
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Yes they do. I do feel that somehow the two of us are managing to talk right past each other though. Because I'm agreeing with virtually everything you said.
 
Harry Leferts said:
*Is almost afraid to wonder what people think of the WWII RCN...*
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From what I know about the RCN during WWII (which is not much), they were very important in hunting down German U-Boats in the North Atlantic.

IMO, by the time WWII rolled around, the Royal Navy was a shadow of it's former self. I don't know how true that is, but considering the stories that @SaltyWaffles is saying, I would not be surprised.
 
Talking about the RCN what have they being doing in the BB world. The last time I heard of them they were protecting the East Coast from Abissmal Subs. Have they finally received some support from the U.S., like some of the summoned DE's? Because I would love to see USS England in a Support Group leaded by the HMS Starling.
 
landcollector said:
Harry Leferts is talking about the Royal Canadian Navy, not the British Navy.
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I am talking about the Royal Canadian Navy. Because last time I checked, the Royal Navy wasn't the only navy performing ASW during the Battle of the Atlantic. The RCN did it's fair share of ASW as well as escorting merchant convoys, specifically in the northwest Atlantic theater.
It was a tough fight, but with courage and the adoption of new technology and tactics, Canada helped the Allies to victory in the Battle of the Atlantic. More than 25,000 merchant ships safely made it to their destination under Canadian escort, delivering approximately 165 million tons of vitally-needed supplies to Europe. The RCN sank or helped sink more than 30 U-boats, but at a steep price. The RCN lost 14 warships to enemy attack and another eight ships to accidents at sea during the Second World War, with approximately 2,000 losing their lives.
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[source]
At the end of the Battle of the Atlantic, Canadian ships (either alone or in conjunction with other ships and planes) sank a total of 27 U-boats, and either sank or captured 42 Axis surface ships.[26] But the real victory was not so much in the statistics of battle, as in the successful completion of 25,343 merchant ship crossings, carrying 181,643,180 tons of cargo and a significant proportion of the Canadian and US forces for the eventual victory in Europe.[26
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[source]
 
biodude711 said:
I am talking about the Royal Canadian Navy. Because last time I checked, the Royal Navy wasn't the only navy performing ASW during the Battle of the Atlantic. The RCN did it's fair share of ASW as well as escorting merchant convoys, specifically in the northwest Atlantic theater.
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I see. Given that you were referencing SaltyWaffles' posts that were mostly talking about the British Navy, you can see where I was coming from.
 
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Part 55: Showboat's a Dreamboat.
  • Threadmarks
    • Not gonna be writing much for the next week (because finals > shipgirls) so have a little mini-update!
    Part 55​


    Sarah Gale stared at the unassuming dormitory door and fumed silently to herself. A few inches of cheap pressed wood was all that separated her from the woman of her dreams—and… more than a few fantasies that she would never discuss with anyone. The Sailor had a plan. She had the perfect venue, and she'd even pieced together the perfect outfit! A cute semi-casual outfit that hit the perfect balance between sexy and proper. She had a plan.

    She just had to execute it. Luckily, she'd ran every possible scenario before she walked over. She just had to knock on the door and say 'Hey, Wash. You like music, right?' Just… had to knock. On the door.

    Gale scowled as her hands refused to move from wringing one another at her belly—a belly which, even after all her dieting and excessive wasn't quite as trim as a certain North Carolina-class battleship's perfect little waist.

    "Fuck," breathed Gale. She was twenty-freaking-five. She'd had her share of girlfriends. Hell, she'd even had her share of hot ones. Like Hannah Nishizumi… that girl had beensmoking. But Wash wasn't hot.

    Or, she was. She was hotter than any woman Gale'd ever seen. But she was also gorgeous. A work of art in motion, a poem of steel and courage, a… a… A queen given human form.

    Wait. Fuck. No, queens are already humans. Wash was… a… sea… spirit. A nymph? Or a Dryad? Something like that. Gale was halfway though making a mental note to ask Crowning about the distinction when she realized she was distracting herself from her real reason for being here.

    Asking the battleship of her dreams on a date.

    Gale took a deep breath, and quickly adjusted herself. She might not have anywhere near the chest that Wash—or even Jersey—had, but she'd be damned if she didn't deploy what forces she had in the most advantageous manner. The Navy'd taught her that much.

    The Yeoman forced her scowl into a sweet—mildly seductive—smile and wrapped her knuckles against the door. "Wash?"

    "Come in," came the honey-sweet tones of Gale's dreamboat.

    "Hey, Wash, youuuuuuuu…" Gale's voice trailed off as she pushed the door open. She wasn't expecting that.

    Wash sat next to her bed with a thick red-jacketed book resting on her lap. Her legs were crossed just so, letting her splinter-patterned skirt ride up to show her snug-fitting shorts. And… those legs. Wash might not be an Iowa-class, but she could still push wellmore than a hundred-thousand horsepower though her shafts. The glimpse of bare skin between the battleship's shorts and her stockings was so intoxicating Gale almost missed the most noteworthy thing about her appearance.

    Wash was wearing glasses. A neat pair of reading glasses were perched halfway down her ever-so-slightly crooked nose. Her face glowed like the moon under normal circumstances, but this was just… wow.

    "Can I help you, Yeoman?" asked the battleship. Her sculpted alabaster face split in a warm smile. The kind of honest, genuine smile that couldn't help but get a girl's heart racing.

    "Uh…" explained Gale. Her heart was racing along well beyond normal, but her brain had totally stalled out. Every time she'd almost gotten her mind back in gear, she'd notice something else about the battleship. The way her cheeks puckered when she smiled, the way her eyes gleamed like honey, the way her scarf draped around her neck. And of course, the way her shirt puckered around those sixteen-inch rifles. "WannaGoConcert?" blurted out the sailor.

    Wash blinked, her skirt ruffling ever so softly as she closed the book she'd been reading. "Sorry, what?"

    Gale gulped and forced herself to slow down. She'd taken acting classes—in middle school, but still—she could speak to an audience. "Sorry, uh… the Trans-Siberian Orchestra's playing down in Seattle. You, uh…" Gale had to bite down the urge to call Wash 'your majesty', "You want to go?"

    Before Wash could answer, a tiny figure wearing an even tinier pirate flag for a hat bounced up from the battleship's bed. "Can we come?"

    "That sounds like fun!" said another girl. This one was had deep red hair and was munching on a potato. A whole, raw potato. For some reason.

    "PleaaaaAAAAAAA!" Yet another tiny destroyer-girl bounced up on the bed. But instead of simply perking up, she launched herself towards Gale's feet, her hands clasped in supplication. Unfortunately, she miscalculated her trajectory and face planted a good yard in front of the Yeoman's boots with a quiet "imokay."

    "Relax, girls." The batteship smiled as she bent down to help the downed girl to her feet. As she did so, Gale got a look at the book she'd been reading. Winnie the Pooh.

    The sailor cringed as realization dawned on her. She was reading them a damn bedtime story! This wasn't how it was supposed to go. This wasn't how anything was supposed to go. She just wanted to fade away into the depths and slink back to her room, like one of the infamous Japanese lewdmarines.

    "Sorry," chimed in all three destroyer girls, although Dee's voice was a little muffled as she held her hand to her nose.

    "If you'd like to come along," Wash let out a tiny little laugh as she fixed some of the more egregiously out-of-place bits of Dee's hair, "you should ask miss Gale."

    "Oh," said the first destroyer-girl, Kidd. "Miss Gale, can we come?"

    "Please?" asked the second, O'Bannon. She even held out her half-eaten potato as an offering.

    "I promise I'll be good." Dee's nose was red, and Gale could tell she was quivering on the edge of tears, "But if you don't want me-"

    "No!" Gale didn't even recall saying the word. It just reflexively lept out of her throat. She'd been left out of too many things in her time. And… well, she couldn't just ignore destroyer-eyes. It wasn't like they'd be interrupting things anyways. If Wash really didwant to go on a date, she wouldn't have let the destroyers ask to tag along.

    But… whatever. It was a long shot in the first place. "No, you girls can come," said the sailor. "I gotta get extra tickets then."

    "It's not too expensive, I hope?" asked Wash as the battleship gracefully reached into her pocket.

    "Nah," Gale shook her head. "I mean… it's you guys. You're war heroes."

    Wash's cheeks very slowly turned a brilliant crimson while the rest of her face remained as regally calm as ever. Dee smiled while Bannie and Kidd lept off the bed for a mid-air high-five.

    Gale blinked. "Yeah, uh… yeah, the Navy'll pay for you."

    "'cause we're!" cheered Kidd.

    "Heroes!" finished Bannie with another powerful high-five.

    "Dee, get in on this," added Kidd.

    Wash just gave Gale a resigned shrug.

    "Yeah, okay," mumbled Gale. "I'll uh… I'll e-mail you the deets?"

    "I'll be waiting," said Wash with a smile.

    "Okay…" Gale trailed off as she backed though the door. She made sure to close it on her way out. Even if Wash had turned her down for a date, she'd done it in a very subtle, polite way. Gale couldn't get mad at her for that. Especially when she had one more option open to her.

    The sailor slipped her phone out of her pocket and sent a simple text message to her best friend on the base.

    From: Sarah Gale
    To: Jen Bowers
    Bring ice cream
     
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    • :cry:
    Poor Gale...

    Although I was awfully distracted by one line...

    theJMPer said:
    "Fuck," breathed Gale. She was twenty-freaking-five. She'd had her share of girlfriends. Hell, she'd even had her share of hot ones. Like Hannah Nishizumi… that girl had beensmoking. But Wash wasn't hot.
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    Like Hannah Nishizumi… that girl had been smoking.
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    Like Hannah Nishizumi...
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    Hannah Nishizumi
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    Nishizumi
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    Kuromorimine shipgirl when?
     
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