Behind the Serpent Throne (CK2)

Current tally.
Vote Tally : Original - Fantasy - Behind the Serpent Throne (CK2) | Page 79 | Sufficient Velocity
##### NetTally 1.7.3.2

[X] Plan Building Up Credits
-[X] Academy Days: The Bureaucracy of Magic
-[X] For What Purpose?
-[X] The Old Emperor's Men
-[X] A Northern Excuse
-[X] A Lesson In Laws
-[X] Northern Climes
-[X] Letters to Nestirin
-[X] The Turtle of the West, Part 2
-[X] Arming
-[X] Reporting to the Emperor
-[X] Money in the City
-[X] The Piece Beneath Notice
-[X] Friends In Poem Places
-[X] Dueling Words
-[X] Put Down
-[X] Checking it Twice
-[X] Against the Enemies of the State
No. of Votes: 3

[X] Plan Random 2.0: Electric Boogaloo
No. of Votes: 3

[X]Plan Mori
[X] Dueling Words
[X] Unseating the Poet x2
[X] The Piece Beneath Notice
[X] Arming
[X] From the East x2
[X] Hoarding Works x2
[X] The Turtle of the West, Part 2
[X] Letters to Nestirin
[X] Learning to Hold the Leash
[X] For What Purpose
[X] The Emperor's Body
[X] No Contracts x2
[X] Put Down
No. of Votes: 1

[x] Plan: Emperor and War
No. of Votes: 1

[X] Plan Intrigue, Diplomacy, and War, Oh My!
No. of Votes: 0

Total No. of Voters: 8
 
Wouldn't it make sense for the both of your plans to focus more on From the East? He is going to be one of the primary generals given where the likely focus of the civil war will be, it's stated he is hawkish and may start something early, and he's recently had a falling out with Kuojah. All of these things should mean it's vital we get him on our side and learn more about him, enough to put two dice on IMO. Veekie's plan doesn't have any dice what so ever on it, and instead gets to know the northern general for some reason.

I would also drop a dice on Young Snakes, Sharp Fangs as war is coming and for the young and ambitious it's going to be their time to shine and make a name for themselves which would be greatly important given the shifting nature of the court. We also benefit if those young people currently have powerful or influential relatives in court. Given the description and the fact we still have a new to court penalty, I wouldn't be surprised if this is one of the actions that reduces it.

I also think it's worth while dropping a dice in Letters to Nesterin given it's one of the deals we made, and it's equivalent to a state action which are rare. From looking at the map it's also a vital place given the line goes from Csrae, Irit, Nesterin, Haru-Su allowing us to potentially contain Prince Jinhai to the east. It's also the path that our mercanaries are likely to take which is also important.

Finally with regards to Veekie's plan, I think the dice on Kuojah's will is premature given he's gotten better and winter is passing which should improve things further. It can be better spent elsewhere.
 
Wouldn't it make sense for the both of your plans to focus more on From the East? He is going to be one of the primary generals given where the likely focus of the civil war will be, it's stated he is hawkish and may start something early, and he's recently had a falling out with Kuojah. All of these things should mean it's vital we get him on our side and learn more about him, enough to put two dice on IMO. Veekie's plan doesn't have any dice what so ever on it, and instead gets to know the northern general for some reason.
Are you suggesting to shift the 2nd die from the Turtle to this or to give up another action?

Also, which actions are you suggesting to replace for the other two?

Plan: Emperor and War



I think that one of the biggest advantages we currently have is the ability to decide when to start the war (as well as the ability to flank our military with a propaganda offensive) and if we don't want to lose that we need to accuse him now. That coupled with our army already active should give us an early advantage that we can capitalise on. I also choose to do the South action to supplement that idea and hopefully secure our border/flank, and secure some additional resources (we should have the advantage here considering our background and location).

My Influence actions meanwhile are weighed towards connected groupings to hopefully benefit from possible synergies and to lessen the impact of failures. I admit spreading the actions so widely is risky but I think will need to take some risks here if we want to get an advantage and reduce the number of options we face.

Ok, I am thinking on something like this:

Behold my great rhetoric skill!

Title: Unseating the Poet (x2)

Secure influence! Access to the emperor!

Title: From the East (x2)

Prevent idiocy! Don't be Leroy!

Title: Bows On Horses

Now or never! They won't be ready otherwise!

Title: Hoarding Works? (x2)

Army marches on its stomach! Very important, 50% chance!

Title: The Turtle of the West, Part 2

Follow up!

Title: Letters to Nestirin

Discount! Spirits!

Title: Guards, Guards

Prevent treachery!

Title: A Northern Excuse

Learn something! The fuck happened!

Title: The Science of Spiritual Warfare

Every bit helps! Now to use its 3 turns!

Title: Learning To Hold The Leash (x2)

Twice so we don't die learning it!

Title: Too Much Baggage
Much tactics! Much speed! Run, horsey, run!

Title: No Contracts (x2)
Very important! Screwed if true!
I just noticed this, but the two of you posted plans without voting for them. You might want to change that if you want your vote to count.
 
For your plan specifically, I'm not really sure you'd like some of my suggestions. I'd honestly drop A Northern Excuse as whatever is happening up north we have far too few actions to do anything about it given we've normal court actions to take, then our job as Imperial Envoy to the Army with civil war coming which will take up plenty, then the poetry and Emperor's tutor, then the mystery around Aisytin and the mystery surrounding the previous Emperor's death. We can't pursue all avenues and as we've seen frequently, taking an action merely unlocks another action that you need to do. I also imagine that if it's serious and we can do something about it, Kuojah would mention it. Or given we're going to be meeting the Emperor we can ask him about it personally if we want a little more information that the rumor mill.

The second would be A Lesson in Laws. Given the option has variable success rates I'd much prefer to have two dice on this, and if that isn't possible leave it until we can put two dice on it. If we can get a rather large bonus from the Tapestries towards this though (which seems like it would interest her enough to count), it would be worth keeping IMO - @The Laurent ?

If you're keeping A Lesson of Laws though, then I'm not to sure if it's worth swapping the dice from Turtle. It's dependent on your own point of view. Personally I think From the East failing would be worse given the prime role Ha'Dong is going to have given both Prince Jinhai's bases of power are in the east so if we want to win we're going to have to campaign there at some point. And just as Qing-Lu had influence in the south, and Juae in the west, Ha'Dong is undoubtedly going to have some in the East which could be very helpful. Here's what we know of him currently anyway:
Ha'dong: The General of the East, he used to be a large supporter of Prince Jinhai. The youngest by far, he tends to be well dressed, in his early thirties. Now he leads the charge against the man, and Qing'lu speculates this is out of shame for his previous conduct. Either way, he is strongly opposed to Kuojah, despite his antagonism with Prince Jinhai as well.
 
Last edited:
The second would be A Lesson in Laws. Given the option has variable success rates I'd much prefer to have two dice on this, and if that isn't possible leave it until we can put two dice on it. If we can get a rather large bonus from the Tapestries towards this though (which seems like it would interest her enough to count), it would be worth keeping IMO - @The Laurent ?
Hmm, possible. I was thinking of perhaps putting one on Ha'Dong's action, but we don't know enough about him to know if he'd appreciate it (probably not). I'm also not sure if that wouldn't undermine the lessons Kuojah is trying to teach her.
 
Hmm, possible. I was thinking of perhaps putting one on Ha'Dong's action, but we don't know enough about him to know if he'd appreciate it (probably not). I'm also not sure if that wouldn't undermine the lessons Kuojah is trying to teach her.

She might be interested in it, actually. As for Ha'Dong, Kiralo definitely doesn't know enough about him to know his tastes. He's not a pauper, living an ascetic life, but there are some people whose tastes don't run to Tapestries, let alone ones that are almost Southlander in design. Almost, though not quite. (I described them in an earlier update.)
 
Hmm, possible. I was thinking of perhaps putting one on Ha'Dong's action, but we don't know enough about him to know if he'd appreciate it (probably not). I'm also not sure if that wouldn't undermine the lessons Kuojah is trying to teach her.
No, I don't think that'll be a good idea until we know more about his disposition.

Edit - Ninajed. Another action they could be used for is the Young Snakes if you're inclined to add it or the poetry one.
 
No, I don't think that'll be a good idea until we know more about his disposition.

Edit - Ninajed. Another action they could be used for is the Young Snakes if you're inclined to add it or the poetry one.
No, I'm not really planning on adding that. As for the poetry action, it mentions Bei'ren potentially introducing us to multiple people and giving a tapestry to only a single one of them would be.... weird, potentially offensive to others? We'd also have no control over who we'd give it to though Kiralo would probably give it to the one who'd be most useful for future actions. Unless we're giving the tapestry to Bei'ren, which I'm not against, but giving a "Southlander" tapestry to a poet who wrote a play that was considered mildly.... treasonous? Offensive? That might not be a good idea.

Think I'll just give one to sis.
 
Last edited:
[X] Plan Neptune

itle: Checking it Twice
Dice Rolled: Intrigue (Primary) and Diplomacy (Secondary)
Chance of Success: 75%
Time: 1 Turn
Text: There are some names that seem not to fit. Some people who might be guilty. Kiralo could hesitate and take his time, going through and making sure by careful diplomacy and asking the right people to exonerate the innocent, perhaps winning their gratitude.

Title: Put Down X2
Dice Rolled: Martial, Diplomacy
Chance of Success: 60%
Time: 1 Turn
Text: An army is what is needed to lance the boil of the banditry, but beyond any difficulties with planning the campaign, and now is the time to act if there is to be any action before the boiling civil war. Convincing people will be difficult, but what other choice is there? [Starts a semi-war-turn]
The state actions goal is to ensure Irit is solid for us as it is the mostly likely avenue the Prince Jinhai's forces will use to try and enter Csrae. I've put two dice on Put Down as it's our first major army movement, and because these forces will also be involved with the Civil War later on so the higher the success the better for us.

Title: Young Snakes, Sharp Fangs
Dice Rolled: Diplomacy
Chance of Success: 72%
Time: 1 Turn.
Text: The young and ambitious, unmarried noblemen of the court are a sharp bunch. Kiralo declined in a way their companionship earlier, and they're not going to be easy to befriend, and he'd have to balance their friendship with the possibility that they might be trivial people whose goals will not align with his. Yet at the same time, they are the people his age and younger, and their fathers and uncles, their brothers and cousins, are important people, as are they by reflection.

Title: Friends In Poem Places
Dice Rolled: Diplomacy
Chance of Success: 65%
Time: 1 Turn.
Text: Bei'ren is a friend now. A friend. And people who are totally friends help introduce one to their other friends, correct? Kiralo could use it as a way to improve his still shaky relationship with the community of poets and scholars that cling to the court. It would not be remiss, then, and could potentially pave the way to friendships that might well be useful, since the court honors poets, and places them in a position of some authority.

Title: The Piece Beneath Notice
Dice Rolled: Diplomacy
Chance of Success: 60%
Time: 1 Turn
Text: He could attempt to learn more about them. It's unknown if they'd trust this, though, or whether they'd think it was a trap. But getting to know them more could have a point, or might merely be a simple gesture. But it's one that would at least allow him to judge them as individuals.

Title: A Lesson In Laws X2
Dice Rolled: Stewardship
Chance of Success: 65/45/30%
Time: 1 Turn
Text: Yanmae is very intelligent in matters that Kiralo is, at most, merely aware of. She could talk to Kiralo about the complex law books, giving him advice and hopefully allowing him to grow closer to her and perhaps request her direct help, as his father has done in the past.
These actions help us develop relationships. The first is IMO vital given war is the time when the young and ambitious shine and make a name for themselves, and Kiralo is in a great position to exploit this. There's also the fact that these nobles will have other influential and powerful family members which is helpful, so I can easily see this action as being one that reduces our new to court penalty thus giving us more influence dice.

The second let's us rebuild relations with the poetry community, and also acts as a prelude to getting Bei'ren assigned as the Emperor's poetry instructor. The third let's us know more about the women we now possess (not sure if right word?), which is helpful to develop loyalty but it also let's us know if these women have any useful skills Kiralo may not be aware of.

I've put two dice on Lesson in Laws to increase the chances of getting the best result.

Title: At Beating Hearts
Dice Rolled: Diplomacy
Chance of Success: 80%
Time: 1 Turn
Text: The monastery at the very heart of the empire is a holy place, and many wish to visit it. Some are allowed the privilege, and some who go learn something more both about magic and faith itself. Oh to talk to Spirits that have seen the passing of two-hundred years as if in the blink of an eye, and talk to the holy men of that blessed place. It would be an important religious experience, and one that Kiralo would be loathe to miss.

Title: Learning To Hold The Leash X2
Dice Rolled: Magic
Chance of Success: 50%
Time: 2 turns
Text: The spirit Aiyistin is powerful and strange. Its nature has not been fully revealed to Kiralo, but it has to be powerful to know 'The fate of men', as it is said to be able to grasp. It is strange, and more than that, as the more powerful spirits are, dangerous and a little wild in a way. But that is all the more reason to gain some ability to use Aiyistin.

If we're going to be heading to Irit this turn anyway, we may as well visit the monastery at the same time. This could help us progress our mothers storyline some more, and also from the description it could aid us with Aisyitin if we get a good enough roll considering it mentions learning more about religion, spirits and magic which describes the spirit pretty well. I've put two dice on Aisyitin as it's 50%, and because form the description it seems a poor roll could do damage to Kiralo.

Title: Reporting to the Emperor
Dice Rolled: Diplomacy
Chance of Success: 70%
Time: 1 Turn
Text: It is not strictly necessary to report any progress as Envoy to the Emperor. After all, reports can be written, and go to the people who, well, make the actual decisions since the Emperor is currently a young boy. But meeting with him personally might give Kiralo a chance to further his bonds with the young Emperor, and to see that the Emperor gets some personal understanding of the military situation, at least in some respects.

Title: From the East X2
Dice Rolled: Martial, Diplomacy
Chance of Success: ???
Time: 1 Turn
Text: Ha'Dong of the East was the foremost hawk, and with war seeming ever more likely, he might well be crowing and acting in ways that could shift the war towards a disadvantageous start, in his eagerness to prove Prince Jinhai the fool. Talking to him and learning more about him in general could be...very, very important, all things considered. Though perhaps Kuojah had a bead on him.

Title: The Turtle of the West, Part 2
Dice Rolled: Diplomacy
Chance of Success: 80%, secrecy odds hidden
Time: 1 Turn
Text: The next step is to inquire about the nature of the Turtle itself, without promising anything or even suggesting more than polite curiosity from the letter that Kiralo will no doubt receive soon. From there, the step is to prepare the grounds for a covert meeting/demonstration to be made to, say, a trusted ally willing to make the journey to Hari-Bueli. So finding such a 'trusted ally' would be another difficulty, and perhaps one that Ju'ae might be able to aid in.

Reporting to the Emperor to follow up on last turns action, for the same reasons as having the Emperor have an understanding of what is happening is important and increases our own influence on him. From the East is going to be vitally important given the civil war is going to be happening primarily in his sphere of influence, so we need to make a good impression and ensure his dislike of Prince Jinhai doesn't cause him to act prematurely.

A dice on Turtle of the West to complete that action.

Title: Letters to Nestirin
Dice Rolled: Magic and Diplomacy
Chance of Success: 70%
Time: 1 Turn
Text: But not all of Qing'lu's news is so dire, or his demands so difficult. He has ties in Nestirin, and he's willing to write letters of introduction for Kiralo, to allow him to gain a foothold in Nestirin politics. [Note, this is essentially 'Where Spirits Nest' from before, only it is now, as a sort of discount, a Court Action, rather than a State one that would thus eat up a far rarer resource than court influence.]

Title: The 'Gang of Roughs'
Dice Rolled: Martial
Chance of Success: 60%
Time: 1 Turn, repeatable
Text: Ji'lae also hinted that he knew others who thought like him. Imperial Mages who might want to fight in a war, for instance. If Kiralo could hire them, and convince the Emperor to hire them, two things could be done. First, it would be the first step to actually working on integrating the Mages instead of, as usually happens, just throwing them around at random in a panic because of a lack of time. Second, if the Imperial Seat holds the contracts to some of the most skilled War Mages, then that means that they have an advantage over the army, which thus needs to heed carefully the desire of the Imperial Seat. It is the same politics that drives any state centralization, and perhaps it can work here, in a small way.
Letters to Nesterin let's us make use of one of the deals we made, as a court influence is less valuable than a state one. It is also the magical province so it could be interesting with some of the options we have, and our mercanaries will likely be traveling through there either this month or next. They're also the province bordering Basrat which is one of Prince Jinhai's core support base.

The Gang of Rough's lets integrate the Imperial Mages more naturally into the military, and should be good to take now so we can practice their usage in Put Down and see what works and doesn't.
 
I've just found this quest and having only read until the end of Jia's story in threadmark 7 or so, I gotta say : this is some serious literary-level (for lack of a better word) writing, @The Laurent. I mean, your Goblin Emperor avatar really fits the writing quality displayed here :D

This might be one of the few quests where I felt compelled to read every discussion page because every world detail felt fascinating and interesting to read.

People should do reaction posts more actually (assuming that they haven't done so after page 12, lol). Alright, enough babbling, back to reading.
 
I would also drop a dice on Young Snakes, Sharp Fangs as war is coming and for the young and ambitious it's going to be their time to shine and make a name for themselves which would be greatly important given the shifting nature of the court. We also benefit if those young people currently have powerful or influential relatives in court. Given the description and the fact we still have a new to court penalty, I wouldn't be surprised if this is one of the actions that reduces it.
I've looked back at the previous turns, and I think the 'New to Court' penalty might actually be related to the amount of time we've been at court. It started at -6 and decreased (or is that increased?) by one point every two turns. Which might be coincidental, but at this rate the penalty would normally disappear after being at court for 1 year, which seems reasonable. So I'm not sure if some actions we take actually affect it.

@The Laurent Anything you think you can share in this regard?
 
I've looked back at the previous turns, and I think the 'New to Court' penalty might actually be related to the amount of time we've been at court. It started at -6 and decreased (or is that increased?) by one point every two turns. Which might be coincidental, but at this rate the penalty would normally disappear after being at court for 1 year, which seems reasonable. So I'm not sure if some actions we take actually affect it.

@The Laurent Anything you think you can share in this regard?

You're exactly right.
 
Finally with regards to Veekie's plan, I think the dice on Kuojah's will is premature given he's gotten better and winter is passing which should improve things further. It can be better spent elsewhere.
Still a very old man, whose death will kick off the beginning of the end. Having an idea of where things fall when he does is very valuable whether or not he falls.
 
Vote Tally : Original - Fantasy - Behind the Serpent Throne (CK2) | Page 79 | Sufficient Velocity
##### NetTally 1.7.3.2

[X] Plan Random 2.0: Electric Boogaloo
No. of Votes: 4

[X] Plan Building Up Credits
-[X] Academy Days: The Bureaucracy of Magic
-[X] For What Purpose?
-[X] The Old Emperor's Men
-[X] A Northern Excuse
-[X] A Lesson In Laws
-[X] Northern Climes
-[X] Letters to Nestirin
-[X] The Turtle of the West, Part 2
-[X] Arming
-[X] Reporting to the Emperor
-[X] Money in the City
-[X] The Piece Beneath Notice
-[X] Friends In Poem Places
-[X] Dueling Words
-[X] Put Down
-[X] Checking it Twice
-[X] Against the Enemies of the State
No. of Votes: 3

[X] Plan: Emperor and War
No. of Votes: 2

[X]Plan Mori
[X] Dueling Words
[X] Unseating the Poet x2
[X] The Piece Beneath Notice
[X] Arming
[X] From the East x2
[X] Hoarding Works x2
[X] The Turtle of the West, Part 2
[X] Letters to Nestirin
[X] Learning to Hold the Leash
[X] For What Purpose
[X] The Emperor's Body
[X] No Contracts x2
[X] Put Down
No. of Votes: 1

[X] Plan Neptune
No. of Votes: 1

[X] Plan Intrigue, Diplomacy, and War, Oh My!
No. of Votes: 0

Total No. of Voters: 11
 
Oh boy. Well, Secrets and Mysteries it is.

EDIT: I fail so much.... someone else can do the other roll. Hope you have more luck.
Random Member threw 1 100-faced dice. Reason: Secrets and Mysteries Total: 21
21 21
 
Well, if you need it now and nobody else is currently on who wants to do it....

EDIT: Mediocre rolls everywhere.
Random Member threw 1 100-faced dice. Reason: Sister Act Total: 38
38 38
 
Back
Top