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Bad Blood (Mafia)

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I still feel that it wasn't a ritual bludgeoning so much as a normal bludgeoning that happened to take place within an already established ritual circle. The cult might not be evil, it might just be us.
 
I now feel that the "it might just be us" is gonna net me a lot of suspicion soon. Oh well.
 
Oh shit, savaged too. So we have at least 4 types of kills, not counting town. Also of note is that Red (the Savaged kill) is the same color as sign, which is probs important and all.
 
So, I found out something very interesting last night. Oh, I guarantee you it's not what you think, but I have dug up something quite enlightening. It's not necessarily damning, but it is incredibly suspicious. Before I actually post it however, I'd like to ask your patience to go through a few other things.


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So, the more time goes by, the more suspicious of @Mortifer I become. His roleclaim was the first of the bunch, but the more time passes the more... incongruous it seems. Sure an Old Man Henderson is fine alongside a Tim and Tom Riddle, it's perfectly fine in a cosmic horror setting. But the more time that passes, the more and more we're getting not just straight references, but normal names. Even the references we do have work well as normal names.

I'm not voting for you, I've got bigger fish to fry, but I do find the fact that your claim uses the exact words "Old Man Henderson" instead of a full name... rickety.

NSMS said:
On other topics, am I the only one who finds this set of posts from right before the lynch was called really odd? The sudden jump to Ellf's defense and everything?
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Honestly, I could say the same of you. You came to Ellf's defense in a similarly oblique way yesterday. In your case however, you opened a line for suspicion on Nanimani via noting the existence of mafia aligned watchers. Sure, you said "okay that's probably not it" during the post, but I get the feeling you were hoping someone would latch on anyways.

And sure, to be fair, at the time we did have a case of three investigator variants, which struck me as possible a little much. But the timing is still suspicious. The fact that you're also on Alphadelta's list and have taken steps to implicate him isn't lost on me either. He may have voted for Khawy but you were on that suspects list too.

Which is why I must now move to...

[X] Hang Dirk93

Have whiplash yet? Well let me explain!

What's most suspicious about you NSMS is not anything you did, but the fact that you posted your deflection to defend Ellf within minutes of Dirk93. And don't think I haven't noticed the two of you drawing up a narrative about @AlphaDelta together today too!

You see, I've been browsing the mafiascum wiki over(game)night and now that I'm up and day is here I can post my findings.

That wiki is a nice resource, but unfortunately some of its role info is annoyingly buried. However, I did find Dirk's role archetype and the result was... enlightening. The important note is the second sentence from the beginning of the page

The Hider has the ability to target one player each night. It is a Weak role and as such will die if it targets mafia. In case the hider targets a town-aligned player, he or she will be untargetable for all other roles.
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When you think about it, it makes perfect sense for that to be a "weak" role, since hiding with scum night after night could easily make it invincible.

And it occurs to me that Dirk posted at a suspicious time, with exonerating information, at the height of the chaos.

As if he'd been told to post it.

It could have worked great! Problem is, nobody caught on and remembered that clause. And because nobody caught on in time, nobody exonerated Ellf.

So @Dirk93, perhaps someone can exonerate you, but I am pointedly curious.


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I... may be having just a little too much fun with this post. :D

Nictis said:
I now feel that the "it might just be us" is gonna net me a lot of suspicion soon. Oh well.
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Don't worry, there's no way that two people backing each other up would be suspicious. :V
 
The Phoenixian said:
So, I found out something very interesting last night. Oh, I guarantee you it's not what you think, but I have dug up something quite enlightening. It's not necessarily damning, but it is incredibly suspicious. Before I actually post it however, I'd like to ask your patience to go through a few other things.


--------

So, the more time goes by, the more suspicious of @Mortifer I become. His roleclaim was the first of the bunch, but the more time passes the more... incongruous it seems. Sure an Old Man Henderson is fine alongside a Tim and Tom Riddle, it's perfectly fine in a cosmic horror setting. But the more time that passes, the more and more we're getting not just straight references, but normal names. Even the references we do have work well as normal names.

I'm not voting for you, I've got bigger fish to fry, but I do find the fact that your claim uses the exact words "Old Man Henderson" instead of a full name... rickety.


Honestly, I could say the same of you. You came to Ellf's defense in a similarly oblique way yesterday. In your case however, you opened a line for suspicion on Nanimani via noting the existence of mafia aligned watchers. Sure, you said "okay that's probably not it" during the post, but I get the feeling you were hoping someone would latch on anyways.

And sure, to be fair, at the time we did have a case of three investigator variants, which struck me as possible a little much. But the timing is still suspicious. The fact that you're also on Alphadelta's list and have taken steps to implicate him isn't lost on me either. He may have voted for Khawy but you were on that suspects list too.

Which is why I must now move to...

[X] Hang Dirk93

Have whiplash yet? Well let me explain!

What's most suspicious about you NSMS is not anything you did, but the fact that you posted your deflection to defend Ellf within minutes of Dirk93. And don't think I haven't noticed the two of you drawing up a narrative about @AlphaDelta together today too!

You see, I've been browsing the mafiascum wiki over(game)night and now that I'm up and day is here I can post my findings.

That wiki is a nice resource, but unfortunately some of its role info is annoyingly buried. However, I did find Dirk's role archetype and the result was... enlightening. The important note is the second sentence from the beginning of the page



When you think about it, it makes perfect sense for that to be a "weak" role, since hiding with scum night after night could easily make it invincible.

And it occurs to me that Dirk posted at a suspicious time, with exonerating information, at the height of the chaos.

As if he'd been told to post it.

It could have worked great! Problem is, nobody caught on and remembered that clause. And because nobody caught on in time, nobody exonerated Ellf.

So @Dirk93, perhaps someone can exonerate you, but I am pointedly curious.


-----

I... may be having just a little too much fun with this post. :D


Don't worry, there's no way that two people backing each other up would be suspicious. :V
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The reason I brought up the possibility of werewolf watchers is because they can be a thing, and because as a general rule I feel hyperfocusing on one possibility is a bad idea; I like to consider things from multiple angles rather than just assuming that the most obvious possibility is correct. As for defending Ellf... do note that I voted for him straight off, and my first post on the topic (which is what I assume you're referring to) was this:
NSMS said:
So... all of that happened. Nanimani is very likely to be telling the truth about their role based on independent admission from Ellf, so unless Nani is a werewolf-aligned investigator (doubtful, but not impossible) I think we can assume one of the following possibilities:
  1. Ellf was the only one to visit GatS, and is guilty/lying.
  2. Ellf was not the only person to visit GatS and is innocent, and the killer had some sort of stealth role/ability.
  3. Ellf was the only person to visit GatS and is innocent, and GatS did something to get himself killed.
Option 2 seems really implausible to me, to the point it's probably not worth considering; aside from anything else, 'ripped to shreds' isn't exactly the sort of death that lends itself to stealth. Option 3 is possible, but it'd require a lot of luck/bad luck on the part of GatS. Which means to me, the most likely explanation is the simplest: option 1. Ellf is guilty.

[X] Hang Ellf
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Does that look like any kind of defense to you? As for the timing, by that logic any time two people post back to back or with similar reasoning in a short time frame should be suspected of colluding. Which just boggles the mind. I mean, my post and Dirk's aren't even related! I say Ellf is probably guilty and lay out the reasoning why, Dirk posts that he used his power to hide in Ellf's house and that nothing bad happened there. The logical you're trying to connect them with... I can follow it, but it's all kinds of weird.

And here's another post I made on the topic of Ellf's guilt/innocence:
NSMS said:
I think you're ignoring the rest of the people who've voted for Ellf, here.
We've no actually proof Ellf is the deputy at the moment, and the evidence is definitely pointing more towards him being guilty than innocent. It's possible that's not the case, for a variety of scenario's people have outlined in previous posts, but it is the simpler explanation.
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Does it look like I'm trying to push that he might be innocent? I mean, this one is even responding to AlphaDelta, in which he found me suspicious because I was apparently one of a group of people who'd made similar vote/vote changes, never mind that it caught his attention because we were voting for Ellf (the then-heavily-suspected-and-now-confirmed werewolf) and there were a ton of people throwing similar votes around (and to throw the water on that line of reasoning further, one of the supposed group he picked out died last night and flipped as town). And further, that chain of posts shows that AlphaDelta actually seemed to support the belief that Ellf was the deputy and not scum- he was talking about overturning the wagon and such.

Is it really strange to find that suspicious?
 
NSMS said:
And further, that chain of posts shows that AlphaDelta actually seemed to support the belief that Ellf was the deputy and not scum- he was talking about overturning the wagon and such.
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To clarify on this point: you're saying I tried to obliquely defend Ellf, whilst AlphaDelta was all but outright saying he supported/believed Ellf. There's a bit of a difference there.

On another note: the assumption that me and Dirk were trying to defend Ellf would rest on us all being in the same faction, right? Well that would put that faction at 3 members, and we've pretty strong evidence we're dealing with three factions here. And therefore unless the faction numbers are lopsided (which would be unfair/uneven), 3 werewolves a side would mean 9 in total; over a third of the starting players. Not an impossible scenario, seeing as they also have to eliminate each other to win, but still one I would consider somewhat weighted against town.
 
The Phoenixian said:
I'm not voting for you, I've got bigger fish to fry, but I do find the fact that your claim uses the exact words "Old Man Henderson" instead of a full name... rickety.
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It's almost like the GM just used a tired old meme instead of actually putting effort into making something that would make a player care about a game, such as a power or lore or a name that isn't an overused reference.
 
Mortifer said:
It's almost like the GM just used a tired old meme instead of actually putting effort into making something that would make a player care about a game, such as a power or lore or a name that isn't an overused reference.
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By the looks of things and the lack of flavour/description around the identities of the town players who died last night, we have quite a few vanilla townies in this game. How many of them do you see complaining about it?
 
NSMS said:
By the looks of things and the lack of flavour/description around the identities of the town players who died last night, we have quite a few vanilla townies in this game. How many of them do you see complaining about it?
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I didn't notice any of them being named after tired and overused memes.

Imagine for a moment someone tried running a Mafia game where eveything was based on Japanese Ninja, and we had a Yukimura in one corner and a Hanzo in another and a Kotaro in another and Nobunaga as a Power Role.

Someone who then got given the role of Uchiha Sasuke with no powers wouldn't exactly feel like the GM was putting in any effort, in that situation, and that's basically what the problem here is.
 
Mortifer said:
I didn't notice any of them being named after tired and overused memes.

Imagine for a moment someone tried running a Mafia game where eveything was based on Japanese Ninja, and we had a Yukimura in one corner and a Hanzo in another and a Kotaro in another and Nobunaga as a Power Role.

Someone who then got given the role of Uchiha Sasuke with no powers wouldn't exactly feel like the GM was putting in any effort, in that situation, and that's basically what the problem here is.
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Then ignore the name of your character. What difference does it make that my role name is 'Riley Cooper' and not 'Weird Al' or 'Donald Trump'? I'm playing the same game with the same people and the same votes/actions to analyse either way.
 
NSMS said:
Then ignore the name of your character. What difference does it make that my role name is 'Riley Cooper' and not 'Weird Al' or 'Donald Trump'? I'm playing the same game with the same people and the same votes/actions to analyse either way.
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It matters because if the GM can't be assed to put effort into thinking up a name over just going 'Hey Old Man Henderson is a reference,' then they clearly didn't care about the role, so why should I?

I mean, for fucks sake, how hard is it to just write Harry Henderson or Henderson Harold? It keeps the reference if it's at all important, takes minimum effort, and would actually take me a moment to realise the reference rather than just the instant disappointment.
 
If you're that unhappy with your role I could look into finding someone to replace you?
 
LostDeviljho said:
If you're that unhappy with your role I could look into finding someone to replace you?
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If it was to the point that I didn't want to play, I'd have left already. But if people are gonna find my claimed name suspicious when I'm also dissatisfied with it, I'm going to air that, and if people are going to tell me to shut up because other people are vanilla townies or because names don't matter, I'm going to defend my stance.

Also thanks for confirming that I'm at least partially telling the truth by posting in the thread rather than in PM's :V
 
Mortifer said:
It matters because if the GM can't be assed to put effort into thinking up a name over just going 'Hey Old Man Henderson is a reference,' then they clearly didn't care about the role, so why should I?

I mean, for fucks sake, how hard is it to just write Harry Henderson or Henderson Harold? It keeps the reference if it's at all important, takes minimum effort, and would actually take me a moment to realise the reference rather than just the instant disappointment.
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If you can't accept being disappointed with some aspect of your role to the point you actively feel the need to complain IN PUBLIC, and it's something as trivial and inconsequential as the name, then I don't know what to say.

Other than that if I ever run a werewold game, I'm going to reserve the name 'Old Man Henderson' for you. And make certain that if you die, I reference lawn gnomes in some way. :p
 
The Phoenixian said:
So, I found out something very interesting last night. Oh, I guarantee you it's not what you think, but I have dug up something quite enlightening. It's not necessarily damning, but it is incredibly suspicious. Before I actually post it however, I'd like to ask your patience to go through a few other things.


--------

So, the more time goes by, the more suspicious of @Mortifer I become. His roleclaim was the first of the bunch, but the more time passes the more... incongruous it seems. Sure an Old Man Henderson is fine alongside a Tim and Tom Riddle, it's perfectly fine in a cosmic horror setting. But the more time that passes, the more and more we're getting not just straight references, but normal names. Even the references we do have work well as normal names.

I'm not voting for you, I've got bigger fish to fry, but I do find the fact that your claim uses the exact words "Old Man Henderson" instead of a full name... rickety.


Honestly, I could say the same of you. You came to Ellf's defense in a similarly oblique way yesterday. In your case however, you opened a line for suspicion on Nanimani via noting the existence of mafia aligned watchers. Sure, you said "okay that's probably not it" during the post, but I get the feeling you were hoping someone would latch on anyways.

And sure, to be fair, at the time we did have a case of three investigator variants, which struck me as possible a little much. But the timing is still suspicious. The fact that you're also on Alphadelta's list and have taken steps to implicate him isn't lost on me either. He may have voted for Khawy but you were on that suspects list too.

Which is why I must now move to...

[X] Hang Dirk93

Have whiplash yet? Well let me explain!

What's most suspicious about you NSMS is not anything you did, but the fact that you posted your deflection to defend Ellf within minutes of Dirk93. And don't think I haven't noticed the two of you drawing up a narrative about @AlphaDelta together today too!

You see, I've been browsing the mafiascum wiki over(game)night and now that I'm up and day is here I can post my findings.

That wiki is a nice resource, but unfortunately some of its role info is annoyingly buried. However, I did find Dirk's role archetype and the result was... enlightening. The important note is the second sentence from the beginning of the page



When you think about it, it makes perfect sense for that to be a "weak" role, since hiding with scum night after night could easily make it invincible.

And it occurs to me that Dirk posted at a suspicious time, with exonerating information, at the height of the chaos.

As if he'd been told to post it.

It could have worked great! Problem is, nobody caught on and remembered that clause. And because nobody caught on in time, nobody exonerated Ellf.

So @Dirk93, perhaps someone can exonerate you, but I am pointedly curious.


-----

I... may be having just a little too much fun with this post. :D


Don't worry, there's no way that two people backing each other up would be suspicious. :V
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I will point out that Mafiascum just documents the frequently used variations not every variant. Honestly though I'm inclined to assume he's a third, not Maf. Namely a survivor, Mafiascum fails to note it but they frequently get the precise ability Dirk has claimed. And claiming that ability without having it is ridiculously stupid of an idea for the simple reason that literally any role with a Night action can check it. Though I suppose you could be right and he could well be an atypical godfather.
 
Joebobjoe said:
I will point out that Mafiascum just documents the frequently used variations not every variant. Honestly though I'm inclined to assume he's a third, not Maf. Namely a survivor, Mafiascum fails to note it but they frequently get the precise ability Dirk has claimed. And claiming that ability without having it is ridiculously stupid of an idea for the simple reason that literally any role with a Night action can check it. Though I suppose you could be right and he could well be an atypical godfather.
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There's the issue, now that I remember it, that if it works as normal, then Dirk HAS been lying the day before then. If he picked Ellf, he should have died N1.

Hider not having that consequence would definitely be overpowered, since it means he could possibly just hide at scum and never have his life at risk.
 
Megaolix said:
There's the issue, now that I remember it, that if it works as normal, then Dirk HAS been lying the day before then. If he picked Ellf, he should have died N1.

Hider not having that consequence would definitely be overpowered, since it means he could possibly just hide at scum and never have his life at risk.
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It doesn't remove the risk of death by lynching, but that's a pretty damn good point.
 
...And now that I'm rereading (rushed a bit this morning), I see Phoenixian already stated as such.

Maybe next theatrics next time?
 
Megaolix said:
...And now that I'm rereading (rushed a bit this morning), I see Phoenixian already stated as such.

Maybe next theatrics next time?
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I'll admit, I overlooked that in his/her post; the out-of-nowhere claim about me supporting Ellf and being on the side of Dirk threw me so much I ended up only focusing on that part.
Megaolix said:
Wait, what teh fuck me?

'Less theatrics next time?'
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Maybe your computer hates you?
 
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