Army of Liberty: a Fantasy Revolutionary Warfare Quest

[Pinniped]

Overall, the shots of the elves were unfortunately largely wasted. Really, 17 casulties for both of our stealth advantages isn't great. At least we got some information out of it.

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Yes, we would have been better off saving the stealth advantage, since we could now use it on his Brilliant infantry. Then again, us hitting said Brilliant unit for 60 casualties was really lucky, so overall this was a great start for us.

As for what he is doing, I really don't understand. I think he is at least surely setting up his artillery and screening for that, but he also placed troops in the central corridor, which is not what I expected. Surely he does not plan to actually advance through said corridor, and will instead move his unit into cover either in Sarcheild or Rotholz? There is no way he actually is planning a frontal attack?

Could he have just genuinly underestimated the damage our artillery can put out, even at long range? Since he has such an artillery centric army, he might not be used to having to shelter his own infantry from enemy artillery?

This plan aims for a minor repositioning of forces, most notably our horse artillery in a position in the central corridor. The push trough Rotholz has yet to materialize, with the enemy likely keeping most of their forces in the central corridor.

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I disagree with the plan to reposition the horse artillery, instead I would set them up where they are now. I think it is too early to make the call on where his push will come. I still consider a Rotholz push possible, especially since we just hit his central push hard with long range artillery. If his plan was to push in the center, the casualties may make him reconsider.

 

[Miffychan]

A fair bit of banter between two solid officers, wagering a bit of coin on how well they can place their shots on the mark?

Now that's soldiering!

 

[Red Rationalist]

As for what he is doing, I really don't understand. I think he is at least surely setting up his artillery and screening for that, but he also placed troops in the central corridor, which is not what I expected. Surely he does not plan to actually advance through said corridor, and will instead move his unit into cover either in Sarcheild or Rotholz? There is no way he actually is planning a frontal attack?

Could he have just genuinly underestimated the damage our artillery can put out, even at long range? Since he has such an artillery centric army, he might not be used to having to shelter his own infantry from enemy artillery?

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Side attacks don't fare better either, since you drop in without artillery support into our medium artillery range (equally a slaughter, plus a longer route). The main damage comes from the medium range of artillery, not marching 3 times as long to avoid long range bombardment. He's either settling in for a long bombardment or maching trough the centre, Rotholz offers him protection against long-range bombardment at the cost of dropping blind infantry into the most dangerous part of the march.

I would set them up where they are now. I think it is too early to make the call on where his push will come. I still consider a Rotholz push possible, especially since we just hit his central push hard with long range artillery.

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If it's too early to make the call, that is an argument for keeping them in the middle where the enemy currently is rather than giving them limited range on where the enemy might be. The benefits of Rotholz are incredibly limited, so there is no guarantuee for that flank to even happen. Horse artillery can be put to the side over the course of one turn, if the actual need arises. We should react to his movements, not keep our second-best artillery at the side in case he might start flanking 3 turns from now.

 

[Pinniped]

Side attacks don't fare better either, since you drop in without artillery support into our medium artillery range (equally a slaughter, plus a longer route).

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Well, the hills do protect his approaching army from our artillery on the sides. The longer route is better if it is safer. And if he takes the eastern hills, our position becomes worse for that it is currently.

If it's too early to make the call, that is an argument for keeping them in the middle where the enemy currently is rather than giving them limited range on where the enemy might be.

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He does have troops at that flank, his cavalry and the 155th Elv. Which the horse artillery can actually shoot if we set it up. I think next turn will tell us much about which approach he will choose, I am not opposed to moving the horse artillery if he actually commits to the center. But he has not done so yet.

 

[Red Rationalist]

The longer route is better if it is safer. And if he takes the eastern hills, our position becomes worse for that it is currently.

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It really doesn't. All of the hills are in medium range, meaning we can bombard the positions of any unit coming over them. Our defensive lines aren't reachable by units on the hills outside of ranged fire (-90) against the units in the breastworks or a blind charge, inferior to the centre by virtue of lacking cover/info. What advantage has Trotha gained by putting troops there? What could he do from the hills that would seriously jeopardize our lines? Is there a possible threat from this flanking, which would involve a 6 turn march onto the hills, that is worth keeping our second best artillery unit out of the fight for the forseeable future?

He does have troops at that flank, his cavalry and the 155th Elv. Which the horse artillery can actually shoot if we set it up. I think next turn will tell us much about which approach he will choose, I am not opposed to moving the horse artillery if he actually commits to the center. But he has not done so yet.

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Is having 4 frontline dwarves and no troops on the hills not a sign his initial plan involve the centre? Nearly all plans that don't involve an exclusive focus on the western flank involve unit movement trough the central corridor, units that we can inflict attrition on.

 

[abominable]

Yeah, voters supported a "slowly win the battle trough long range bombardment" strategy. I think it's unlikely the reinforcements will arrive during the battle considering they are one day away (1 turn = 10 minutes, requiring 86 thousand turns) but it's possible to run out the clock until night time or sufficient attrition.

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Id like to think that even if it doesnt really buy us enough time till reinforcements get here (even if they did id still question their conditions since they be entering after a forced march which would really tire them out), it might still help pressure our enemy into rushing and potentially making a mistake.

Trotha knows time is on our side.

 

[Red Rationalist]

Id like to think that even if it doesnt really buy us enough time till reinforcements get here (even if they did id still question their conditions since they be entering after a forced march which would really tire them out), it might still help pressure our enemy into rushing and potentially making a mistake.

Trotha knows time is on our side.

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If he knows about the new army and considers them combined a threat, he has time pressure. But I wouldn't count on him rushing. He's an experienced Norn artillerist, he will take his sweet time for a decisive offensive. If he even tries that rather than trying to bait a charge once we get reinforcements, since he is well set up for defense.

 

[Pinniped]

It really doesn't. All of the hills are in medium range, meaning we can bombard the positions of any unit coming over them. Our defensive lines aren't reachable by units on the hills outside of ranged fire (-90) against the units in the breastworks or a blind charge, inferior to the centre by virtue of lacking cover/info. What advantage has Trotha gained by putting troops there? What could he do from the hills that would seriously jeopardize our lines?

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It's not just about the hills, its about the entire approach. Below is a rough picture of where our artillery can fire from their central postion:

View: https://imgur.com/a/F7lcJBn

It think it nicely shows why he would be tempted to choose the Rotholz for his advance. It is the only place where he can get much closer to our position without exposing his entire army, including high-value troops such as cavalry and artillery, to artillery fire from us. Due to this artillery cover, I would consider it likely for him to approach through Rotholz, even if he chooses to attack from the center.

Also, those hills are 5 tiles from our artillery, while medium range is 7 tiles, so attacking from there does reduce the time he spends in Medium range. Finally, I don't think he will do a central attack without covering his own flanks, which means he has to maintain a presence in Rotholz.

Is there a possible threat from this flanking, which would involve a 6 turn march onto the hills, that is worth keeping our second best artillery unit out of the fight for the forseeable future?

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I'll get back to you on how I think he could try to threaten us from the Rotholz direction. In general, I think he will bring his artillery to support his attack or even bombard our position. Ideally for him, he would bring his artillery to positions where he can fire at Medium range at us, forcing us to get aggressive or take a lot of artillery fire. In order to counteract that, he must push us back on both flanks, forcing us into a passive position around Kinzberg. Pushing us back from the flanks would also blind us pretty effectively.

However, I am not saying we should keep the horse artillery out of the fight "for the foreseeable future". I am saying we should wait now, instead of moving it. If nothing happens at the Eastern flank, we can move the horse artillery next turn or the turn after. Now, it is just too early to tell, in my opinion.

 

[Red Rationalist]

It's not just about the hills, its about the entire approach. Below is a picture of where our artillery can fire from their central postion:

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So this about avoiding long-range bombardment. I have adressed this before, but shooting at -50 is not a sufficient cost to consider an assault without clear lines of retreat.

However, I am not saying we should keep the horse artillery out of the fight "for the foreseeable future". I am saying we should wait now, instead of moving it.

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Shouldn't it be the other way around? Keep them flexible in the centre unless he goes for flanking seems like the better idea, since the flanking takes longer.

I'll get back to you on how I think he could try to threaten us from the Rotholz direction. In general, I think he will bring his artillery to support his attack or even bombard our position

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Right, that idea. Putting artillery trough takes at least 4+10 = 14 turns of movement once he gets them near the hills, meaning they are lost with absolute certainty in the pursuit phase if the assault goes wrong. That alone would probably be a deterrent for most generals.
This is only where the problems with this assault start. You need to actually put them on the hill (2 turns) and set up (3rd turn), during which time the artillery needs to be shielded against melee and cavalry attacks from our side of the hills. This forces of screening infantry needs to out in the open for at least 3 turns, during which we deal an avg of 17 cohesion damage a turn against the open infantry. Meaning he would loose 60% of his high cohesion units during the set-up phase (~ 18?, plus damage from cohesion routing and infantry fire/melee, plus running into cavalry ready charges). After these 3 turns of heavy fire he needs to cycle new infantry for screening in, meaning he has 6 infantry -3 screens left for the assault (2 humans, 1 dwarf, 1 nymph and 2 elves), who will be taking melee damage from our fresh units.

All for the big prize of bombarding our infantry at -60 rather than -90 and avoiding some long-ranged shots. Suffice to say, if he tries that he doesn't have a sufficient infantry group left to assault us with.
Of course, this still ignores any potential complications like running the artillery into our infantry while crossing the forest, cavalry ambushes and so on. I don't think the plan is in any way appealing to Trotha, since you delay the assault by 3 critical turns and force infantry into screening roles. It isn't a credible threat to us.

 

[legomithras]

I broadly agree with Red Rationalist in the final analysis but have some different thoughts on key points.

Trotha could have been more aggressive but I would not call this a conservative move. I want to explicitly point out that the maximum move of infantry is 3 hexes. The infantry has been pushed forward as far as they will go, choke points both slow the rest down and limit what we can actually see coming up after that line of dwarves. That the limited cavalry does not appear to have been pushed out further makes sense the arms are best when working together.

Von Trotha's infantry seems to be structured into three distinct forces.

The first line of dwarves, which will take the fewest casualties marching up (that said cannon feels like the best weapon to use on them, because they have a good wounding modifier)

The second line which is mostly hidden (behind the first seems most likely) which is the charge to contact line made up of humans and hobs.

This is classical doctrine as described (at least what you'd do if you didn't have the hobs to make a whole line), you march your first line up under the guns and charge with your fresh second line. It remains to be seen how well it works in practice.

The third group is the two elf infantry regiments. Their best utility is probably spotting targets. And guarding the flanks, that said the 155th up on the top right are currently in a bad position, they will have to move. Eyeballing it I think the 74th has a good line of sight on the hills with out halfings in it, assuming they do this as worst case scenario we might want to hide or break line of sight with the halflings to keep the place of their deployment secret.

The nymphs are a wildcard, they are the most dangerous skirmishes in the army. We can't rule out any place on the battlefield they could be due to sight lines, I reckon they'd be most dangerous on the forested flank of the second line.

Having been reminded that you need hills to shoot from behind formations I do not believe there's really anywhere useful for the enemy foot artillery to go apart from on the ridge. As actually getting up to any position in the centre where they can fire over infantry is prohibitively slow. (and again, I don't think there's enough room on the centre to have guns and infantry in such a way that the guns can support an infantry charge effectively.)

As I see it Von Trotha has two choices in front of him.
Put the guns in the hills and bull rush forward with his infantry, hoping to deliver his second line intact to our line (doctrinally sound but I think mechanically suicidal)

Bring up the guns behind the lines, there will be two indicators of this. If his guns don't appear on the hills in turn three and if his central line ever stops moving. This is a tricky proposition because he will be trading cohesion (how effective artillery will be in supporting infantry) for time under bombardment.

My instinct is to put the haflings in a position to flank with any cavalry that can move to that area unobserved into the wooded flanks at about level with Rotzhold tower. I favour leaving the horse artillery where it is (call it sunk cost fallacy if you like) on the basis that it will have (something to shoot) and I am a fan of "reconnaissance by fire" which we are not using in the traditional sense (instead taking potshots at formations to see how their commanders react under fire.

 

[Red Rationalist]

I broadly agree with Red Rationalist in the final analysis but have some different thoughts on key points.

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I appreciate the input. To give some quick tip I found useful: Under the insert menu you will find the horizontal line. Seperating your main thoughts with those helps improving readability in long posts, since you have a visual indicator where one idea ends in longer posts.

Having been reminded that you need hills to shoot from behind formations I do not believe there's really anywhere useful for the enemy foot artillery to go apart from on the ridge.

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What ridge do you mean? Multiple hills could be described this way.

Von Trotha's infantry seems to be structured into three distinct forces.

The first line of dwarves, which will take the fewest casualties marching up (that said cannon feels like the best weapon to use on them, because they have a good wounding modifier)

The second line which is mostly hidden (behind the first seems most likely) which is the charge to contact line made up of humans and hobs.

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This would make sense formation wise, though I'm not sure the assault group is already formed.

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The third group is the two elf infantry regiments. Their best utility is probably spotting targets. And guarding the flanks, that said the 155th up on the top right are currently in a bad position, they will have to move.

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Then can move into cover within one turn, making their exposed position largely irrelevant. I also agree those are likely scout regiments, there to give advanced warning and a buffer against Rotholz flanking from our side.

My instinct is to put the haflings in a position to flank with any cavalry that can move to that area unobserved into the wooded flanks at about level with Rotzhold tower. I favour leaving the horse artillery where it is (call it sunk cost fallacy if you like) on the basis that it will have (something to shoot) and I am a fan of "reconnaissance by fire" which we are not using in the traditional sense (instead taking potshots at formations to see how their commanders react under fire.

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The issue is the poor targets in the area. Any shot fired would be at auxiliary forces 2 turns from now (set-up turn required), allowing them easily to take long-range cover. After this, our horse artillery takes -70 for any shot if the flanking doesn't come. If we wait on the flank, we're reducing long-range damage in the centre every time we wait.
Assuming he flanks, we get one shot in when before they enter the forest, one or 2 as they leave the forest. This inadequate for routing flanking forces (5 baseline cohesion dmg a turn), forcing us to retreat. The better counterplay is setting up bombardment once Trotha tries crossing the hills, which any flanking HAS to do. Why not set for the more probably scenario and give ourselves some much needed damage in the centre?

 

[Pinniped]

This is only where the problems with this assault start. You need to actually put them on the hill (2 turns) and set up (3rd turn), during which time the artillery needs to be shielded against melee and cavalry attacks from our side of the hills. This forces of screening infantry needs to out in the open for at least 3 turns, during which we deal an avg of 17 cohesion damage a turn against the open infantry

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This part I disagree with, screening infantry and especially cavalry does not have to be standing in the open to accomplish their task. Especially since he has so much artillery that he can afford to sacrifice an artillery unit as bait, in order to kill whatever units we commit to take out said artillery.

All for the big prize of bombarding our infantry at -60 rather than -90 and avoiding some long-ranged shots.

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-60 is assuming he fires at the units in breastworks, right? If he holds the Eastern hills, why would he not fire at our less protected units, such as our cavalry? Or the headquarters, for that matter.

 

[Red Rationalist]

This part I disagree with, screening infantry and especially cavalry does not have to be standing in the open to accomplish their task. Especially since he has so much artillery that he can afford to sacrifice an artillery unit as bait, in order to kill whatever units we commit to take out said artillery.

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If he doesn't screen, our cavalry can charge onto the hills and kill the artillery. Either he screens or we kill his support artillery in a charge, making this a rather decent exchange for us (some cavalry damage from infantry attacks vs. field artillery lost). Influence wise, a single piece of field artillery is worth 150 influence = 7500 regular cavalry, 15 fresh cavalry units. Even if he could theoretically kill all 3 cavalry units charging (1500 hits, unlikely over 1-2 turns with limited fire support on the hills), he still looses the exchange by an insane margin, not to mention reducing his core army strength. There is no sacraficing artillery as bait, any unit killed reduces his key strength for no strategic gain. This is not a path to win the battle.

-60 is assuming he fires at the units in breastworks, right? If he holds the Eastern hills, why would he not fire at our less protected units, such as our cavalry? Or the headquarters, for that matter.

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Yeah, but the only thing that he can do for a breaktrough is routing the unit in the breastworks. (-40 at any unit on the forest, which still isn't great). He could fire at the units on the side, but that doesn't win him the battle, since he needs a quick breaktrough before his infantry dies. Every shot that doesn't do that reduces the chance of the main attack. Cavalry can be moved away, HQ is behind the hills, thus they are functionally untargetable.

 

[abominable]

If he knows about the new army and considers them combined a threat, he has time pressure. But I wouldn't count on him rushing. He's an experienced Norn artillerist, he will take his sweet time for a decisive offensive. If he even tries that rather than trying to bait a charge once we get reinforcements, since he is well set up for defense.

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We'll see, I suppose.

 

[Pinniped]

Cavalry can be moved away, HQ is behind the hills, thus they are functionally untargetable.

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Cavalry can be moved away where? If he holds the hills, we are trapped.

Yeah, but the only thing that he can do for a breaktrough is routing the unit in the breastworks.

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You are saying he will try an assault in the center with his infantry, with the artillery only able to support by firing at long range, right? What do you think is the likelihood this succeeds in routing the units in the breastworks? It does look currently like he is attempting a central push, but do we need to plan for that, since it is doomed to fail?

 

[Red Rationalist]

Cavalry can be moved away where? If he holds the hills, we are trapped.

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Ehh, no? Hussar units can move 9 tiles away, meaning in this scenario they could move out of medium range and move to the western end in a single turn, hiding behind our own infantry. There is no trapping them.

You are saying he will try an assault in the center with his infantry, with the artillery only able to support by firing at long range, right? What do you think is the likelihood this succeeds in routing the units in the breastworks? It does look currently like he is attempting a central push, but do we need to plan for that, since it is doomed to fail?

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I don't know what he's going to try. Can't give you concrete chance for the centre push either, but the chances of succeeding are roughly equally low. But in the case of a assault + retreat he looses some infantry rather than less replacable field artiklllery units, which is an obvious bonus. Plus the retreat rout has a lower chance of capturing infantry regiments during the pursuit, since his infantry wouldn't have to run over the hills and trough the forest on their own.
I don't want the horse artillery in the centre because we need the damage there to survive, I want them there to keep them relevant. Trotha has little reason for a Rotholz push (blind infantry charge isn't in character for him) and our strategy is to slowly erode his units trough attrition. The Rotholz basin makes for poor artillery area from our side, so I want the 5th to gain experience and skirmish in the centre, where his main force will be in 3/4 plans. Why not increase our chance against most plans involving the central corridor, rather than prepare for an edge case of his entire force going trough the Rotholz?

 

[Pinniped]

But yeah, in the interest of not getting involved in spaghetti posting and keeping my thoughts understandable, here is a write-up on why I think the Rotholz approach is the best plan for him. I am not saying it will win him the battle, our position is strong. But it is a much better option for him than just a central charge, in my opinion.

How Von Trotha can try to win the battle
Ok, so lets look at the map of our position. We have a very strong central position, with three artillery batteries dominating the center. An infantry assault in the center is not likely to work, since our infantry is superior to his and our artillery can shoot at short-medium range during a defensive battle. Thus, if he is to win, he must use his artillery to soften up our position. In order to do that, he presumably must screen them with infantry and cavalry, without exposing said infantry and cavalry to too much damage from our guns. Fortunately for him, there is hilly terrain both East and West of our position, providing cover within which his army can maneuver, without taking fire from our guns. In all other parts of the map, all his units will slowly but surely take damage from our cannons, putting them on a timer. Within this "safe" area, marked in green, he has all the time in the world to maneuver, move up his artillery and Rest his units.

View: https://imgur.com/a/G7UweZq

Thus, I propose he will advance through the Rotholz, attempting to push us out of the Eeastern hills and taking up positions with his infantry and horse artillery as shown below. In this position, his horse artillery can fire on the hills, so he would have a good chance of taking them and forcing our infantry to retreat.

View: https://imgur.com/a/2BreVqq

Note that his infantry is completely safe from our central artillery here. They can Rest, while he slowly moves up his artillery. At this point, we will not be able to see what he is doing behind the hills. Our options will be to wait for whatever 10+ turns it will take him to maneuver, or to leave our entrenched position and get into a battle at the hills, where our artillery cannot fire and his can. After he completes moving his artillery up, he can try to setup something like this:

View: https://imgur.com/a/o6qTV1W
Red arrows are cavalry ready charges. Circles are artillery.

In this position, his artillery can get to work, bombarding and with good rolls, destroying our position. Of course, the obvious thing we can do is to charge his non-screened artillery with our cavalry. However, this is an obvious move, that he is sure to expect. Thus, he has all the cavalry Ready Charge, and all infantry Ready Fire. Consequently, any of our cavalry that enters the same hex as his artillery is likely to die, the cavalry charge would be a suicide mission. And unless we destroy all his guns in our charge, we are left with no cavalry, meaning he can use his cavalry freely to flank us, go after our artillery and potentially win. Also, if he Ready Fires his artillery, expecting our charge, the cavalry will take 6 short-range artillery shots on their way in, in addition to the Ready Charges from his cav. The charge might very well fail, and then we outright lose.

In essence, I consider him forcing us to charge his artillery to be a win for him, since it forces us out of our turtling strategy and gives him the potential to win the battle. Sure, influence-wise losing 4 units of artillery for 4 units of our cavalry is terrible, but he does not want to maximise his influence, he wants to win the battle and defeat us.

As a final note, do I consider this approach from him likely to work? Not really, a lot of things would have to go right for him and wrong for us for him to win. But I do consider this approach to be one that gives him a real chance of victory, and one that allows him to use his strong artillery and generally defensive setup efficiently against our current position.

 

[legomithras]

I appreciate the input. To give some quick tip I found useful: Under the insert menu you will find the horizontal line. Seperating your main thoughts with those helps improving readability in long posts, since you have a visual indicator where one idea ends in longer posts.

What ridge do you mean? Multiple hills could be described this way.

This would make sense formation wise, though I'm not sure the assault group is already formed.

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Thanks for the tip.

By "the ridge" I mean the long line of hills one tile south of Trotha's deployment zone. As it is a complete line aside from two hexes I feel it is one of the key terrain features for this battle serving as a barrier, a bottleneck and an observation point. Clearly it is not catching on.

The rightmost elf regiment 155th is in a bad position because where it is it can't see anything or affect the battle and moving it is going to take time. In terms of vulnerability I really want to stress that with the horse artillery where it is sitting in the plains is equivalent to going into Rotholz forest (long range modifier is -50 meanwhile medium range modifier is -20 and the forest is -30 = -50) It's not mathy, but in terms of moving the horse artillery towards the centre is a case of where you can get more shots off. Where it is the hobs have 4 turns of shooting at -50 (maybe one of which is at -20) before the closest infantry reaches them. Meanwhile after relocating to the centre and setting up (depending on exactly where), they have around 2 turns of -20 fire before being forced to reposition if enemy infantry move up at best speed. I think you could do the maths, but I feel like staying put causes more casulaties. Obviously this is just numbers talking, the operational element is that even one unit of elves moving through the forest has a potential to disrupt or at least spot any flanking we do with our own elf regiments and that if our horse artillery doesn't have to move from that hill we will get some sweet enfilading fire on their main line (no mechanical benefit but satisfying)

 

[Red Rationalist]

How Von Trotha can try to win the battle

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Let me say my quick response here:

Note that his infantry is completely safe from our central artillery here. They can Rest, while he slowly moves up his artillery. At this point, we will not be able to see what he is doing behind the hills. Our options will be to wait for whatever 10+ turns it will take him to maneuver, or to leave our entrenched position and get into a battle at the hills, where our artillery cannot fire and his can. After he completes moving his artillery up, he can try to setup something like this:

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Right, but this comes at the cost of leaving his entire artillery position exposed, and blocking most of the way his infantry can approach. In terms of screening you have 4 cavalry covering a front line of 5 units against 5 of our cavalry. He can't keep cavalry at the side , since that fails to cover most of our approaches and the infantry between the units is still exposed. And if the interception in our range goes badly, he looses all of his artillery.

Thus, he has all the cavalry Ready Charge, and all infantry Ready Fire. Consequently, any of our cavalry that enters the same hex as his artillery is likely to die, the cavalry charge would be a suicide mission

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He needs to screen for 3 turns during the set-up. The infantry can only ready fire in one direction (along one tile) and deal only 3.04 damage on average, and we have more cavalry. A cavalry charge does 5.2 cohesion damage, whereas our combined artillery does 17 a turn (at least 1 enemy cavalry routed). Add this up 4 times across 5 seperate cavalry units, and try to do that for 3 turns. There isn't a way for this screening proposal to work, to much front and too little damage. And this is ignoring we have one defensive genius unit who is even better at surviving the damage. Loosing a third/half of our cohesion in exchange for killing the enemy artillery isn't a suicide mission, it's a stunning blunder on Trotha's part.

This plan introduces substantial vulnerability while solving the wrong problem "How do I prevent long-range artillery" rather than "How do I deal enough damage for a breaktrough.". This isn't a weak point in our planning, nor a reason to keep the 5th out of the battle.

 

[Red Rationalist]

By "the ridge" I mean the long line of hills one tile south of Trotha's deployment zone. As it is a complete line aside from two hexes I feel it is one of the key terrain features for this battle serving as a barrier, a bottleneck and an observation point. Clearly it is not catching on.

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Well, you called the formation a ridge for the first time. I think most people would probably understand what you meant if you called it the northern ridge.

In terms of vulnerability I really want to stress that with the horse artillery where it is sitting in the plains is equivalent to going into Rotholz forest (long range modifier is -50 meanwhile medium range modifier is -20 and the forest is -30 = -50)

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If Trotha doesn't push the Rotholz, we don't get shots. Him having something in the main corridor is almost certain regadless of his specific plan.

Meanwhile after relocating to the centre and setting up (depending on exactly where), they have around 2 turns of -20 fire before being forced to reposition if enemy infantry move up at best speed. I think you could do the maths, but I feel like staying put causes more casulaties.

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The major difference here is that the horse artillery in the central position is able to fire in medium range across open terrain, dealing a lot more damage against an approaching enemy. Any unit trying to attack them would have to run into the medium artillery of our main battery, adding to the damage (~17 damage from our field artillery as they are approaching, enough to rout a unit per turn). They would be further slowed down by our blockers (cavalry in this case) and take a ready charge on the way.
It's a nice bit of synergy that forces the enemy to take more damage or hurry into artillery damage during the set-up. The horse artillery along the main corridor isn't under much threat considering the sheer damage we can deal against approaching infantry and can safely be put 5 tiles in a turn, should the need arise. If the enemy tries to engage, we win an early victory by forcing the enemy units into medium range of our artillery, which decimates them.

Obviously this is just numbers talking, the operational element is that even one unit of elves moving through the forest has a potential to disrupt or at least spot any flanking we do with our own elf regiments

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Not really, we can always put one cavalry on the hill-side if we really want to scout. This couldn't be blocked by enemy infantry given the sheer amount of potential routes we could take.

 

[Pinniped]

He needs to screen for 3 turns during the set-up.

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How do you get three turns? On the first turn his artillery appears on the hills, on the second they set up. On the third they are ready to fire.

He would likely move first move up and set up the artillery near Rotholz, which is further away from our lines, before he brings up his artillery to the high-risk position at the hills. This would allow his artillery in the back to help screen his other artillery while they move in and setup. I am not convinced our cavalry can rush in, rout his artillery, and get back to safery without dying.

Loosing a third/half of our cohesion in exchange for killing the enemy artillery isn't a suicide mission, it's a stunning blunder on Trotha's part.

This plan introduces substantial vulnerability while solving the wrong problem "How do I prevent long-range artillery" rather than "How do I deal enough damage for a breaktrough

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You are expecting a central attack from him instead? How does that solve the "how do I deal enough damage to breakthrough"-problem? Personally, I would consider a charge in the center without good artillery support a "stunning blunder". How could that ever work, against a entrenched enemy with better infantry?

Also, the idea with that plan is to deal enough damage to breakthrough with artillery, which is very in character for Von Trotha. The plan also does not just avoid long-range artillery fire, as it keeps his infantry and cavalry safe from all our artillery fire, unless we commit our own units to draw them out.

 

[Pinniped]

Aside from the discussion about the right flank, should we do something on the left? Would it be too risky to send our halflings north into the forest? Could we get cheeky and move the 16th NW, NW, NW, to absorb enemy artillery Ready Fire and reveal his artillery setup?

Has anyone mapped out which positions we can see with Elven Spotting and which not? It would be nice to find out if Von Trotha has put the nymphs on the left or the right flank...

 

[Red Rationalist]

How do you get three turns? On the first turn his artillery appears on the hills, on the second they set up. On the third they are ready to fire.

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Hills have a movement cost of 2 turns, field artillery has a movement of one. Meaning you need 2 turns for moving into position and spend one turn firing. The major sticking point is that the hill tile has to be kept either free if you don't expose your screens OR we are able to charge across the hill tile and into artillery.

Keep in mind that your theoretical plan involves a 16-ish track across the Rotholz, with us having LoS on the entry area the artillery needs cross before getting into the Rotholz. Suffice to say we won't be caught unaware and have a plentiful reaction time.

How does that solve the "how do I deal enough damage to breakthrough"-problem? Personally, I would consider a charge in the center without good artillery support a "stunning blunder"

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It doesn't solve the issue, but a simple central assault is an attack plan that won't loose his artillery arm if he fails to perfectly screen. Infantry casualties are easier to recover than lost field artillery, so I expect him to do "anything but a main assault trough Rotholz". It's safe to assume Trotha won't pick plans with substantial risk to artillery as his first choice.

Aside from the discussion about the right flank, should we do something on the left? Would it be too risky to send our halflings north into the forest? Could we get cheeky and move the 16th NW, NW, NW, to absorb enemy artillery Ready Fire and reveal his artillery setup?

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Wait before his artillery is set up, we don't even know if he devotes any to the left flank. There is no damage to absorb, the artillery still takes 3-ish turns before being really set up.

 

[Nerdorama]

I'm going to be busy for almost the entire vote period but let's please not write off a Rotholz advance as impossible while we are watching him put troops there thank you. We (that is, the plurality of the voters) put the 5th there for a reason.

I do think a disruptive cavalry force is more likely than an immediate push with artillery, though, for reasons RR has outlined, which is why I didn't put MORE over there. Let the 5th set up and our infantry get into proper defensive positions while he gets his own troops into the open for whatever he's really doing over there.

 

[Red Rationalist]

I'm going to be busy for almost the entire vote period

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My condolences for that, seems like the major plan makers for the other side are busy. If anybody would like help with the technical aspects of plan making for staying put, I'm offering my help. I can make the illustrations for a rivaling plan in a decent time, my inkscape setup is decent enough.