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Army of Liberty: a Fantasy Revolutionary Warfare Quest

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@The Laurent With a majority of voters wanting to leave the decision to you, I would strongly recommend including an action of trying to reach out to the 6th and telling them to meet us at Daurstein in the plan you will make. Regardless if you favour my particular approach of swaying them, we need to try and make them join us. On our own we have insufficient strength to give battle, with them we have a decent chance of matching the centre army. Only once they link up with us can we consider future moves from Daurstein. It's a free action due to the courier, one we should make use of.
 
I asked @Photomajig whether the decision to Assault or Siege could be done on the ground once we know what happens with the surrender demands with generous terms/etc? That's currently one thing I'm definitely thinking about.
 
Did I miss what is being done with the prisoners? Would they follow the army back into Norn or is there somewhere to stash them. Bringing them along doesn't seem like a great idea.
 
AQShedim said:
Did I miss what is being done with the prisoners? Would they follow the army back into Norn or is there somewhere to stash them. Bringing them along doesn't seem like a great idea.
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You missed it. The aftermath turn outlined our decisions.
Photomajig said:
Success comes with a price, and that is figuring out what to do with 6000 Nornish prisoners of war and a dozen high-ranked officers, including General von Wachenheim himself. You suppose they're Martelnac's problem now. Shepherding them to Antreville and deeper into the country might be prudent, but it might also slow down the Fifth. No, they'll be snug and safe in Martelnac for now; the officers you can bring along, perhaps.
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The Laurent said:
Actually, @Photomajig , can we frontload the surrender demands and respond with siege or assault based on how that goes?
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That's valid. Still adds a bit of time compared to just Assaulting, due to the time spent communicating, but we're talking of a matter of hours, not days or anything.

Dutch said:
Btw @Photomajig we've had a pop-up on the morale stat of the Army of the West, but what about their discipline stat? Was it affected by Brutet and are we allowed to know?
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Their Drill also degraded by -2 due to losing their command staff and enduring such a mass rout. Defeat doesn't reduce Drill on its own, though I should really add more things that do.
 
Hmm, @Photomajig could we have a bit of a summary on what Norn's current diplomatic position is like? Primarily with regards to what's going on with their war with Vechia? Is that war still ongoing and that's where most of the actual professional Nornish Legions are? Or is that war already ended and there's now peace?

I feel that knowing whether (to our limited knowledge) the main Nornish army is still tied up in a war or if it's over and they're probably on their way now is gonna be pretty important.

Also, what's east of our current map, going down the Waldpfad into the Markwald? Is there anything particularly important going into that region of Norn?
 
Chimeraguard said:
Also, what's east of our current map, going down the Waldpfad into the Markwald? Is there anything particularly important going into that region of Norn?
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Given that the region is just called border (mark = march) forest, I would assume not. Likely sparsely populated forests with a couple of towns.
 
Bypassing Daurstein isn't an obscenely reckless move IMO. It's risky, but the threat to our rear is somewhat lessened by the fact that we'd be sitting on the line of communication between the garrison and von Trotha. And since the Raoille is a couple days march from Daurstein, we'd probably have time to win a decisive victory against von Trotha before any sally can reach us.

The problem, of course, is that it'd have to be a decisive victory. A plan that relies on winning (and winning big) to avoid disaster is dangerous. Any outcome to that first battle where von Trotha's army is still in the field and able to stay in contact would become very sketchy very quickly.

Re: sieging Daurstein, my question is what comes next. A rapid surrender would be swell but can't be relied upon. Even unmotivated garrisons can usually swing 'we'll wait a couple weeks to see if relief's coming'. And reinforcements from VI. Army are even less certain - I doubt Guillory will come running because we sent him a letter. Even if he's happy to put himself under our command, he might delay to gather supplies or reinforcements or for any number of other reasons. Not to mention some of the stories of IRL commanders of the period who maneuvered primarily to avoid linking up with their superiors, military considerations being a distant second in their calculations. Folks love independent command. :V

With all that said, I'm leaning towards either an assault or riding to collect VI. Army. If we want to take Daurstein, best to wrap it up in the next few days so we can prepare for Trotha (or even advance further if he doesn't appear). Otherwise, we might be forced to pick between launching an assault while Trotha's within striking distance or falling back to Martelnac and letting him have the AotW remnants.
 
Hmm, with the current bandwagon, here's a question I have. What is the plan if von Trotha's army is coming south, or at least starts coming South once they hear we've taken/attacked Daurstein? We can probably take Daurstein by assault fairly easily, but do we think we can face off against von Trotha's army in the aftermath? I'm personally not that confident, and taking and then having to withdraw from Daurstein is probably a bigger mark against us than not taking it at all.

Most of our plans in against the Army of the Centre have relied on also having the VI Army as backup, but in order to get the VI Army to follow us, I think we're going to have to go meet them personally. A letter I don't feel will cut it.
 
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[] Go on the offensive.
-[] Approach Daurstein
--[] Write the assembly that the moment for offensive action against Norn is here, and fleeting fast. Inform them of the state of the western army. Ask for reinforcements to secure the Nornish border and start proper defensive operations. Explain that the 5th is at the border of Norn around Martelnac, taking Daurstein as a defensive buffer with the goal of stopping any enemy from even stepping on Arnése soil. Stress your determination to abide by any decision and order the rightful government of the people will give you. You are merely obeying the spirit instead of the letter of your orders for a good defense by taking the rapidly changing local situation into account, not deciding how the war should be waged.
--[] Tell Guillory to join you at Daurstein. Stress that any future offensive must pass through Daurstein, with Arnesé having the opportunity to secure a buffer. Say that you won't let the opportunity to pass and make the need to be together for Trotha's superior numbers to be overcome very clear.
--[] Send couriers/demands ahead,:Offer very generous terms to the enemy officers, very, very generous terms to the enemy soldiers, and generous and reasonable terms to Daurstein ahead of your arrival, even if it might mean a delay or a day or so. Make it clear that it is not your intent to war on the People of Norn, and that insisting on fighting will only cause unnecessary loss of life.
--[] Make sure this information is widely known, using more than one messenger, so that it cannot be hidden from either the populace or the common soldier.
--[] Hold off on the decision on whether to assault or set up a siege until actually at Daurstein, and judge based on reactions to the surrender requests, weather factors, etc, etc.

Here's my... weird hybrid whatnot. Feedback welcome, since I have a lot of "My Name" votes.
 
natruska said:
Bypassing Daurstein isn't an obscenely reckless move IMO. It's risky, but the threat to our rear is somewhat lessened by the fact that we'd be sitting on the line of communication between the garrison and von Trotha. And since the Raoille is a couple days march from Daurstein, we'd probably have time to win a decisive victory against von Trotha before any sally can reach us.
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Offensively winning by rushing to meet the artillery focussed commander (who has a more experienced artillery than us, plus the royalist elite cavalry) seems unlikely to give us victory. Without force parity and with few reinforcements, I'm not feeling great about our chance. We've had our reserves wiped. And even after a bloody victory, we are operating alone in an area without reinforcements to be found, with potentially hostile forces able surprise us from any direction.
It's a risky decision, but I'm not seeing the path to victory from here.
Chimeraguard said:
Hmm, with the current bandwagon, here's a question I have. What is the plan if von Trotha's army is coming south? We can probably take Daurstein by assault fairly easily, but do we think we can face off against von Trotha's army in the aftermath? I'm personally not that confident, and taking and then having to withdraw from Daurstein is probably a bigger mark against us than not taking it at all.
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We might win if we can operate defensively. Still, having land we can exchange for time is worth a battle.
 
Chimeraguard said:
Hmm, @Photomajig could we have a bit of a summary on what Norn's current diplomatic position is like? Primarily with regards to what's going on with their war with Vechia? Is that war still ongoing and that's where most of the actual professional Nornish Legions are? Or is that war already ended and there's now peace?

I feel that knowing whether (to our limited knowledge) the main Nornish army is still tied up in a war or if it's over and they're probably on their way now is gonna be pretty important.

Also, what's east of our current map, going down the Waldpfad into the Markwald? Is there anything particularly important going into that region of Norn?
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Your intelligence in this regard is out of date. The war with Vechia is over from what you heard last, but they're still ironing out a peace treaty. Vechia has lost badly and looks to be losing a lot of territory (mainly to Norn, but Bruttia also snuck in for land despite barely participating). The bulk of Nornish armies are either still in Vechia looming over the peace talks or on their way back - you have no idea which.

That said, it'll take 3+ weeks for them to march to La Durance, if that's what they're doing. You should have some breathing room.

The Markwald is a large mountainous forest that stretches for quite a while (paralleling the OTL Schwarzwald). It's sparsely populated and less developed. Any maneuvers will likely avoid it best they can.

Traditionally, most campaigns between Arne and Norn take place here in the north, between La Durance and the north-western parts of Norn. Any Nornish forces that invade south of the Markwald are so far away from the action here to be someone else's problem.
 
The Laurent said:
Here's my... weird hybrid whatnot.
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It's a good plan. Offering them a way out before we even arrive could sway them, especially if Wachenheim fails to communicate with the unorganized remnant in time could open the way. I don't have a problem with delaying our decision once we get a bit more info.
 
The Laurent said:
[] Go on the offensive.
-[] Approach Daurstein
--[] Write the assembly that the moment for offensive action against Norn is here, and fleeting fast. Inform them of the state of the western army. Ask for reinforcements to secure the Nornish border and start proper defensive operations. Explain that the 5th is at the border of Norn around Martelnac, taking Daurstein as a defensive buffer with the goal of stopping any enemy from even stepping on Arnése soil. Stress your determination to abide by any decision and order the rightful government of the people will give you. You are merely obeying the spirit instead of the letter of your orders for a good defense by taking the rapidly changing local situation into account, not deciding how the war should be waged.
--[] Tell Guillory to join you at Daurstein. Stress that any future offensive must pass through Daurstein, with Arnesé having the opportunity to secure a buffer. Say that you won't let the opportunity to pass and make the need to be together for Trotha's superior numbers to be overcome very clear.
--[] Send couriers/demands ahead,:Offer very generous terms to the enemy officers, very, very generous terms to the enemy soldiers, and generous and reasonable terms to Daurstein ahead of your arrival, even if it might mean a delay or a day or so. Make it clear that it is not your intent to war on the People of Norn, and that insisting on fighting will only cause unnecessary loss of life.
--[] Make sure this information is widely known, using more than one messenger, so that it cannot be hidden from either the populace or the common soldier.
--[] Hold off on the decision on whether to assault or set up a siege until actually at Daurstein, and judge based on reactions to the surrender requests, weather factors, etc, etc.

Here's my... weird hybrid whatnot. Feedback welcome, since I have a lot of "My Name" votes.
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Seems quite good to me.

However, I would like to know what the plan is after taking Daurstein, if it surrenders? Can we beat von Trotha on his home turf if he tries to retake Daurstein from us? I am not confident we can...

What about the possibility that von Trotha actually chooses to give up Daurstein entirely, and instead crosses the river and marches on Antreville? That could put us in a tough spot, where we either have to abandon Daurstein and rush back, or go forward to Engelburg to cut of von Trotha's supply lines. Both options would be bad for us, I think.
 
Also checking in that everything in this vote is viable and nothing is obviously a mistake by General Durand's standards, etc, @Photomajig .

[X] Go on the offensive.
-[X] Approach Daurstein
--[X] Write the assembly that the moment for offensive action against Norn is here, and fleeting fast. Inform them of the state of the western army. Ask for reinforcements to secure the Nornish border and, should they deem it necessary, start proper offensive operations. Explain that the 5th is at the border of Norn around Martelnac, taking Daurstein as a defensive buffer with the goal of stopping any enemy from even stepping on Arnése soil. Stress your determination to abide by any decision and order the rightful government of the people will give you. You are merely obeying the spirit instead of the letter of your orders for a good defense by taking the rapidly changing local situation into account, not deciding how the war should be waged.
--[X] Tell Guillory to join you at Daurstein. Stress that any future offensive must pass through Daurstein, with Arnesé having the opportunity to secure a buffer. Say that you won't let the opportunity to pass and make the need to be together for Trotha's potentially superior numbers to be overcome very clear. Explain your reasoning, thus letting him on on the logic and hopefully softening any hint of presumption therein.
--[X] Send couriers/demands ahead: Offer very generous terms to the enemy officers, very, very generous terms to the enemy soldiers, and generous and reasonable terms to Daurstein ahead of your arrival, even if it might mean a slight delay. Make it clear that it is not your intent to war on the People of Norn, and that insisting on fighting will only cause unnecessary loss of life.
---[X] Potential for promise of parole from the officers involving a promise not to fight against Arne for the rest of the war, and surrender of the two field artillery, but not the artillerymen, who are free to go with the rest. These are negotiable points, but something must be done with the artillery pieces, or at least that seems to be the case.
--[X] Make sure this information is widely known, using more than one messenger, so that it cannot be hidden from either the populace or the common soldier.
--[X] Hold off on the decision on whether to assault or set up a siege until actually at Daurstein, and judge based on reactions to the surrender requests, weather factors, etc, etc.
 
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Pinniped said:
However, I would like to know what the plan is after taking Daurstein, if it surrenders? Can we beat von Trotha on his home turf if he tries to retake Daurstein from us? I am not confident we can...
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Well, we have to defend somewhere. Sitting in a forward position and waiting for reinforcement is the smarter choice here, especially as the surrender would allow to add to our arsenal and give time for army preparation. If we don't spend much on siege actions, I'm more confident.
Pinniped said:
What about the possibility that von Trotha actually chooses to give up Daurstein entirely, and instead crosses the river and marches on Antreville? That could put us in a tough spot, where we either have to abandon Daurstein and rush back, or go forward to Engelburg to cut of von Trotha's supply lines. Both options would be bad for us, I think.
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After he gave up on crossing the river while being in a forward march? I'm going to say "quite unlikely", considering he's waiting for better weather. He's not trying to march over a even longer land route when his first attempt failed.

Also endorsing the weird hybrid plan, as we lovingly named it.
[X] The Laurent
 
[X] Remain on the defensive.
-[X] Leave the army and ride to Antreville.

Plans for facing von Trotha seem to expect that the VI Army will hasten to come to our aid after our letter, but I don't see a particularly good reason to be certain about this. We don't know what orders the VI Army might have been given specifically, but I imagine they certainly didn't expect a change of circumstances to allow for an outright invasion of Norn. I don't think a letter is going to cut it for convincing him to commit to what he'd almost certainly see as a gamble with his green, untested troops.

And I think that in the longer term, we'll have a better working relationship with Guillory if our first real interaction with him is a meeting in person explaining everything that has happened, not just a letter calling on him to reinforce our own attack into Norn, regardless of how golden the opportunity is.
 
Antreville is far enough back that it's essentially giving up all momentum. It can still be justified, but it has to contend with that fact. It is true that the strongest way to get Guillory on our side is to meet in person, but I think that the way that the letter is phrased is honestly quite mild. Like fundamentally time is of the essence and the weather is poor, if he blames us for not personally hurrying to tell him all of the hot goss face to face, then there's honestly kinda a problem already...
 
The Laurent said:
I have ideas, but honestly I wanted to give @Photomajig room to manuever because General Durand knows a lot more about Warfare In This Era than we do, so she would presumably know what counts as generous and not, in a general sense.
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Generally, we'll be looking at "everyone gets to leave with their weapons and their stuff, the Fifth Army isn't billeted within the city but outside it, the city isn't looted, there's at least a day for the folks inside to pack their stuff and gather provisions for the road, the enemy can safely retreat without having fear of being attacked on the way to friendly territory" (in this case, probably to the other side of the Raoille in the north).

That's what I'd rate generous. You can certainly press for harsher terms than that.
 
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