Army of Liberty: a Fantasy Revolutionary Warfare Quest

[Chimeraguard]

While the infantry line isn't terribly solid, they are also not particularly likely to flee after a single charge. Wachenheim can also reorganize his line by putting the extremely defensive and undamaged 14th Hum forward, plus bracing. The smarter move might be to put our hussars into the forest, which would prevent enemy fire while potentially allowing us to flank the 75th from the hills. On the bright side, we now also have a target in form of the enemy hussars being in range, which might allow us to force a retreat from Wachenheim.

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I do feel like we probably want to get our cavalry into the woods. That 2nd Jaeger unit is still somewhere in there, and I think even if we rout the one we're currently attacking, unless they get taken out immediately (which I suppose is possible? I'm not sure how capture rules work in that case.) They'll just be able to rout further east where they'll be surrounded by friendlies and we won't be able to capture them.

Though, I suppose one issue is that the 55th is liable to get shot before they can get into cover, but hopefully Defensive Genius will partially cover for that?

 

[Red Rationalist]

It's just infuriating now since when I see the numbers, we'd be solidly ahead in casualty percentages if this action that we realized shouldn't have happened was actually cancelled.

I don't think we can even get a good shot off on the Hussars with any of our artillery except maybe our Horse Artillery (do the forests block their LOS?), and we've seen how pathetic Long-Range artillery fire is.

We can't even get the Jaegers because by the end of this turn, they'll be right in the middle of the rest of the still withdrawing in good order enemy army even if they do rout.

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While we had comparatively bad luck overall, we also had our moments of extraordinary good luck. Remember when shoot at the 100th and killed their rapid commander while their are on a hill position? A 1 in 500 shot, if my math checked out. We would have screamed if anything like this had happened to us. Try to calm that fury down, and save it for the moment we get to drown a large portion of the western army in the river.

I do feel like we probably want to get our cavalry into the woods. That 2nd Jaeger unit is still somewhere in there, and I think even if we rout the one we're currently attacking, unless they get taken out immediately (which I suppose is possible? I'm not sure how capture rules work in that case.) They'll just be able to rout further east where they'll be surrounded by friendlies and we won't be able to capture them.

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I'm pretty sure the 20th halflings are moving into the wetlands, 2*E of the suspected volunteer dwarven artillery and retreat onto the road this turn.
The crazy thing about moving into the forest is that we have a decent chance of killing artillery units before they can fully retreat. If one of our hussars ends their turn on the eastern forest, we can charge onto a wooded hill tile in a turn (2+6 = 8 movement), way before the artillery can retreat from the map. Additionally, a charge against the 7th is also possible by charging over the hill. Ignore the Jägers, we might kill the enemy artillery despite insanely difficult conditions.

 

[Red Rationalist]

On a different note, we might be able to reduce damage to our cavalry a bit. Assuming Wachenheim puts his artillery on ready fire, we may be able to trigger both by moving the 72nd one east, out of cover. With their 18 cohesion remaining, they would be able to take the hit without issues, especially considering the enemy won't attempt a charge at this point. Of course that would require for Wachenheim to fall for the same trick twice, but elves are slow learners by nature.

@Photomajig Question regarding the positioning of our cavalry: Does their positioning at the corners indicate they will enter the neighbouring tile this turn? I'm not entirely sure how the cavalry units regarding charge work when a unit flees the tile over multiple turns.

 

[Red Rationalist]

Anyways, here is my draft plan for that.

-[] Draft Plan Northern Pawn, Southern Fork
-[] 251st Hob: Resupply 5th Hob H. Art
-[] 10th Hum Art: Fire at 14th Half Jäg [79% for routing, +1 cohesion to 55th]
-[] 200th Hob: Move E
-[] 72nd Hum: [go first] Move E, W
-[] 148th Hum: Move E, NE
-[] 42nd Elv: Ready Fire [E, Med. Range]
-[] 45th Elv: ROUTING
-[] 16th Half: ROUTING
-[] 19th Half: Rapid move E, Ready Fire [E, Med. Range]
-[] 28th Half: Move NE
-[] 55th Elv. Hsr: Move SE,E
-[] 108th: Move E, SE
-[] 13th Hob Lanc: Move NE, NE, Ne
-[] 84th Elv Art: Fire at 1st Hum Hsr [40% for 1 cohesion dmg. or more]
-[] 31sr Elv Art: Fire at 1st Hum Hsr [40% for 1 cohesion dmg. or more]
-[] 5th Hob. H. Art.: Fire at 1st Hum Hsr [66% for 4 or more cohesion dmg.]
-[] HQ: Resupply 10th Hum Art

Move the 72nd out of cover to try triggering ready fire, concentrates fire on the visible hussar and puts the cavalry into the southern forest, in order to attempt a flanking manoeuvre from the southern hills.

 

[Chimeraguard]

-[] 55th Elv. Hsr: Move SE,E
-[] 108th: Move E, SE

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Hmm. I know it's game mechanics, but I really do feel like our cavalry ought to be able to take a swing at at least the routing Dwarves as they ride past them. Like, they are routing and not putting up resistance, so even if the mechanics say that we can either move or we can attack them...

I dunno, it just feels weird. Maybe there could be some kind of "Pursue" or "Hunt" or "Ride down" or whatever action that specifically only works on routing units and allows for that kind of auto-attack if we have troops moving through routing troops?

 

[Pinniped]

I wonder, could it work to push our infantry forward, like this? With the way his line is positioned, the only units he can use to punish our advance are the 177th, his two cavalry units and the artillery. The 72nd is sitting at 18 Cohesion, and the 42nd at 11, so they can take a beating. Advancing in the road threatens his 61st artillery, as well as threatens cutting of the retreat of his units in the south. It also sets up us bringing up the 200th and 251th as well next turn, as well as opens up the way for the 13th to turn North if able. If we get our cavalry to the road, it's game over for any his units still stuck retreating in the mud.


View: https://imgur.com/a/LPNxAoN

I really think a bold push in the north puts him in a lose-lose situation: either he focuses his artillery fire to the North and lets our cavalry advance unopposed, or he targets the cavalry and allows our infantry to advance.

 

[Red Rationalist]

Edit: what is wrong with the image I tried to post?

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Couple of possibilities: You tried getting a link before the image finished uploading, or you accidently forgot to add .png at the end, something SV needs for image uploads.

I wonder, could it work to push our infantry forward, like this? With the way his line is positioned, the only units he can use to punish our advance are the 177th, his two cavalry units and the artillery. The 72nd is sitting at 18 Cohesion, and the 42nd at 11, so they can take a beating. Advancing in the road threatens his 61st artillery, as well as threatens cutting of the retreat of his units in the south.

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This assumes he has no further infantry near the 61st to block us [unlikely, with his hordes of routed infantry] And it unfortunately also leaves the path to the horse artillery open, something I really don't want to risk now that the enemy cavalry has shown up. This approach is far to aggressive for this phase.

 

[Pinniped]

This assumes he has no further infantry near the 61st to block us [unlikely, with his hordes of routed infantry]

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Hmm, unless I am mistaken we know the position of every infantry unit except the 86th, the 93rd and the 15th. Of those, the 86th and 93rd routed on turn 7 and thus are likely behind his line. The 15th is Dwarven and routed on turn 8, so they are almost certainly still resting far behind his line.

And it unfortunately also leaves the path to the horse artillery open, something I really don't want to risk now that the enemy cavalry has shown up.

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I fail to see how he can reach the horse artillery with my plan? Our units are on the road, so he cannot use it. His only shot at the horse artillery is through the forest currently inhabited by the 42nd, but his cavalry does not have enough movement to attack the horse artillery through there. Although we could rapid move the 19th NE to cover that hex, then ready fire.

The point is that I do not see a good way for him to punish a more aggressive push here. Sure, the 72nd will take damage, but you are also using them to bait out artillery fire in your plan. Advancing on the road buys time for the cavalry flank to succeed, and getting into a melee slugging match on the road favors us, as it allows us to take advantage of the hobgoblin charge bonus.

 

[Red Rationalist]

Hmm, unless I am mistaken we know the position of every unit except the 86th, the 93rd and the 15th. Of those, the 86th and 93rd routed on turn 7 and thus are likely behind his line. The 15th is Dwarven and routed on turn 8, so they are almost certainly still resting far behind his line.

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We can only see the first row, there could be a decent number of infantry east of the street. And while they don't have a lot of cohesion, they just need to occupy 2 tiles in order to block attacks against the 61st.

I fail to see how he can reach the horse artillery with my plan? Our units are on the road, so he cannot use it. His only shot at the horse artillery is through the forest currently inhabited by the 42nd, but his cavalry does not have enough movement to attack the horse artillery through there.

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Huh, I overlooked your green arrows. You should really write out the movement orders for the infantry when proposing something, it helps people to follow your steps. With this being said, putting forward doesn't actually accomplish much. We loose more people due to fire, the cavalry gets an easy target, and we would have a hard time actually routing the 177th, given their high 13 cohesion. We would also be pushing into an area surrounded by more infantry, facing ~3 attacks in addition to artillery. What are you trying to accomplish with this push outside of banking on the 61st being wide open?

 

[Pinniped]

Hmm. I know it's game mechanics, but I really do feel like our cavalry ought to be able to take a swing at at least the routing Dwarves as they ride past them. Like, they are routing and not putting up resistance, so even if the mechanics say that we can either move or we can attack them...

I dunno, it just feels weird. Maybe there could be some kind of "Pursue" or "Hunt" or "Ride down" or whatever action that specifically only works on routing units and allows for that kind of auto-attack if we have troops moving through routing troops?

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I agree, it is a bit odd that routing units occupying the same square as an enemy unit don't take automatic damage, or something like that.

You should really write out the movement orders for the infantry when proposing something, it helps people to follow your steps. With this being said, putting forward doesn't actually accomplish much.

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Here they are, here is my draft plan. I updated it a bit from my previous idea, your movement of the 13th Lancers up to the road is a very good idea.
-[] Draft Plan Aggressive advance
-[] 251st Hob: Move SE, E
-[] 10th Hum Art: Fire at 14th Half Jäg [79% for routing, +1 cohesion to 55th]
-[] 200th Hob: Move E
-[] 72nd Hum: Charge E, E, E
-[] 148th Hum: Move E, NE, E
-[] 42nd Elv: Move NE, E, E
-[] 45th Elv: ROUTING
-[] 16th Half: ROUTING
-[] 19th Half: Rapid move E, Ready Fire [E, Med. Range]
-[] 28th Half: Move NE
-[] 55th Elv. Hsr: Move SE,E
-[] 108th: Move E, SE
-[] 13th Hob Lanc: Move NE, NE, NE
-[] 84th Elv Art: Fire at 177th Hum
-[] 31sr Elv Art: Fire at 177th Hum
-[] 5th Hob. H. Art.: Fire at 1st Hum Hsr [66% for 4 1 cohesion dmg.]
-[] HQ: Resupply 10th Hum Art


View: https://imgur.com/a/nk2chqE

nd we would have a hard time actually routing the 177th, given their high 13 cohesion.

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Hmm, your previous post had the 177th at 3 Cohesion, not 13?

 

[Red Rationalist]

Hmm, your previous post had the 177th at 3 Cohesion, not 13?

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Yeah, I misremembered that one. Still, it's entirely possible to pull the 177th back, and put the more resilient dwarven units forward. Plus, the second cavalry unit will show up. We don't have the operational reserves against 2 cavalry charges a turn + artillery.

Here they are, here is my draft plan.

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My criticisms:

1. The 200th can't charge east, as a charge is defined as an offensive movement over at least 2 tiles.
2. The 251st is going to end up disorganized, due to the 45th likely fleeing SE,E,SE
3. Why are you moving the nearly dead 148th near combat again?

 

[Pinniped]

My criticisms:

1. The 200th can't charge east, as a charge is defined as an offensive movement over at least 2 tiles.
2. The 251st is going to end up disorganized, due to the 45th likely fleeing SE,E,SE
3. Why are you moving the nearly dead 148th near combat again?

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1. Right, switched it to just moving, like in your plan. The idea is to try to catch the cavalry in melee.
2. Hmm, that might be a risk I am willing to take. They would still fulfill their purpose, which is protecting the horse artillery. I am expecting the 45th to flee E, behind the friendly hobgoblins.
3. I am simply moving them 1 more step E than your plan does. I fail to see how this puts them in greater danger, they are still well behind the frontline, but closer if we do end up needing them as a reserve.

Still, it's entirely possible to pull the 177th back, and put the more resilient dwarven units forward.

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There are no dwarven units behind his line, unless I am mistaken. He could switch the places of the 177th and 102nd, but that would mean he has to abort his retreat.

We don't have the operational reserves against 2 cavalry charges a turn + artillery.

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I do admit it is risky, but note that only one of his artillery units fired this turn. This may mean he has started his retreat, meaning his artillery cannot fire. In any case, if he commits all his cavalry and his artillery to pushing back the 72nd and 42nd in the North, our cavalry has free rein to flank in the South completely unopposed. Do you see some way for him to stop both attacks?

 

[Red Rationalist]

There are no dwarven units behind his line, unless I am mistaken. He could switch the places of the 177th and 102nd, but that would mean he has to abort his retreat.

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Or he can leave the 102nd in place and pull the 177th southwards, pulling them E, SE in preparation for the retreat.

I do admit it is risky, but note that only one of his artillery units fired this turn. This may mean he has started his retreat, meaning his artillery cannot fire

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Huh, I did miss that. The artillery seems to be actually packing up, all things considered. That does make the southern push easier.

In any case, if he commits all his cavalry and his artillery to pushing back the 72nd and 42nd in the North, our cavalry has free rein to flank in the South completely unopposed. Do you see some way for him to stop both attacks?

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Depends on how he uses the second cavalry, putting them in the south might complicate things sufficiently. We have 4 turns to catch the volunteer artillery, starting now. Regarding the northern push, I'm less concerned about this being stopped and more about suffering disproportionate casualties at the last stage of combat if we push really agressivly.

 

[Chimeraguard]

Hmm. I know it's game mechanics, but I really do feel like our cavalry ought to be able to take a swing at at least the routing Dwarves as they ride past them. Like, they are routing and not putting up resistance, so even if the mechanics say that we can either move or we can attack them...

I dunno, it just feels weird. Maybe there could be some kind of "Pursue" or "Hunt" or "Ride down" or whatever action that specifically only works on routing units and allows for that kind of auto-attack if we have troops moving through routing troops?

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I agree, it is a bit odd that routing units occupying the same square as an enemy unit don't take automatic damage, or something like that.

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@Photomajig Could there be a mechanic for routing units that enemy units pass through (and/or are actively chasing) taking automatic hits? Units that are fleeing and running away I feel ought to be taking some severe casualties if they're routing and there's enemy units in proximity, since that tends to be when the worst casualties were inflicted. And it's far less effort to cut down people fleeing in panic than it is providing organized and active resistance.

Maybe like, "Pursue" a Routing enemy is a basically a Free Action (minus any movement cost to get next to them) and after it's done, the unit can still use its action to do other things so long as it has Movement left, and a boost to hits/casualties inflicted when Pursuing compared to normal attacks?

 

[Pinniped]

Or he can leave the 102nd in place and pull the 177th southwards, pulling them E, SE in preparation for the retreat.

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That assumes there is no unit E of the 177th, and would also put the 177th in the mud, making their retreat much slower.

If our push succeeds and the 177th routs or retreats, we have our 42nd and 72nd fighting his 102nd and possibly his second cavalry unit. We also have the 13th Lancers, who can deliver a devastating charge onto any enemy unit opposing us on the road.

Basically, I believe we can establish local superiority in the North using the 72nd, 42nd, 200th amd 13th, with the 251st eventually reinforcing. The way his units are bunched up on the road, he can only resist our push with one or two units. The point is to force him to fight us on the road while retreating, which means he pretty much must sacrifice a few units to keep our troops busy and cover his retreat.

 

[Pinniped]

Could there be a mechanic for routing units that enemy units pass through (and/or are actively chasing) taking automatic hits? Units that are fleeing and running away I feel ought to be taking some severe casualties if they're routing and there's enemy units in proximity, since that tends to be when the worst casualties were inflicted. And it's far less effort to cut down people fleeing in panic than it is providing organized and active resistance.

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I agree with this, although for historical and realism reasons maybe it should only apply routing units in the same hex as cavalry? Historically chasing down routing unit was cavalry's bread and butter, while it does make sense that infantry cannot catch routing infantry efficiently.

 

[NSchwerte]

Couldn't we charge a routing unit, use the movement of that charge to move into their hex and then use the native cavalry movement to move again after a charge to go somewhere else?

 

[Pinniped]

Couldn't we charge a routing unit, use the movement of that charge to move into their hex and then use the native cavalry movement to move again after a charge to go somewhere else?

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In a situation like the current one, not really? Charging requires prior movement, and our cavalry is already next to the routing unit. We are too close to charge them.

 

[NSchwerte]

In a situation like the current one, not really? Charging requires prior movement, and our cavalry is already next to the routing unit. We are too close to charge them.

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We could normal move into the routed enemies hex. Both the enemy and our regiment will have moved one hex once that move finishes, allowing us to charge them as we moved once that tuen

 

[Pinniped]

We could normal move into the routed enemies hex. Both the enemy and our regiment will have moved one hex once that move finishes, allowing us to charge them as we moved once that tuen

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Yanky, from a rules perspective, but it sounds like it should work.

 

[NSchwerte]

If they are actually pulling back their artillery then a charge could very well signal an end to this battle as we overrun their position with artillery support.

Idea: charge the 1st hussars with the 108th

Rapid 19th east and shoot 14th, with ambush it's a 85% chance to rout them

Did anyone check on LOS for the artillery against the 1st hussars

 

[Red Rationalist]

Returning to the conversation after getting a bit of proper sleep:

Basically, I believe we can establish local superiority in the North using the 72nd, 42nd, 200th amd 13th, with the 251st eventually reinforcing. The way his units are bunched up on the road, he can only resist our push with one or two units. The point is to force him to fight us on the road while retreating, which means he pretty much must sacrifice a few units to keep our troops busy and cover his retreat.

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You are forgetting about the option to step a tile away from the road and fight us. Though considering this more closely, I think an actual fighting retreat is somewhat unlikely, considering the damage done to the his army already and I'm coming around to the idea of pushing forward with our infantry, mainly to distract the cavalry from hindering the actual, really valuable advance against the artillery. I will take another look at possible improvements to your plan, but switching to the offensive might be necessary.

Idea: charge the 1st hussars with the 108th

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The problem I have with that is that it reduces our chances of capturing the enemy artillery with the hussars. They are in the unique position to overrun one, maybe two artillery units if we really commit. We have plenty of other options to chip away at the 1st hussars.

Rapid 19th east and shoot 14th, with ambush it's a 85% chance to rout them

Did anyone check on LOS for the artillery against the 1st hussars

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I checked the lines of sight already. The 31st and 84th can shoot against the hussars long-range, only the 10th can't. With this in mind, it's better to let the 10th rout the 14th Half Jäg this turn and save the 19th ambush for the cavalry. The 10th can hopefully fire on subsequent rounds.

 

[Photomajig]

Hmm. I know it's game mechanics, but I really do feel like our cavalry ought to be able to take a swing at at least the routing Dwarves as they ride past them. Like, they are routing and not putting up resistance, so even if the mechanics say that we can either move or we can attack them...

I dunno, it just feels weird. Maybe there could be some kind of "Pursue" or "Hunt" or "Ride down" or whatever action that specifically only works on routing units and allows for that kind of auto-attack if we have troops moving through routing troops?

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Couldn't we charge a routing unit, use the movement of that charge to move into their hex and then use the native cavalry movement to move again after a charge to go somewhere else?

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We could normal move into the routed enemies hex. Both the enemy and our regiment will have moved one hex once that move finishes, allowing us to charge them as we moved once that tuen

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Yanky, from a rules perspective, but it sounds like it should work.

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This is the way to do it. I am not going to add free damage to Routing units, but you can absolutely Charge into them and then move past them with your remaining Movement.

If they are adjacent, yeah it's a bit janky, but what NSchwerte said works. I can also allow for a "Charge E after enemy has Moved once" kind of thing? That would be in line with how you can choose the order of your own units' movements.

 

[Red Rationalist]

This is the way to do it. I am not going to add free damage to Routing units, but you can absolutely Charge into them and then move past them with your remaining Movement.

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Just so I'm sure I understand the ruling correctly, we can charge into a routed unit, move into their tile during the charge, and move out of the occupied tile after that? In other words, routed units don't block charging cavalry like units in formation would?

 

[Photomajig]

Just so I'm sure I understand the ruling correctly, we can charge into a routed unit, move into their tile during the charge, and move out of the occupied tile after that? In order words, routed units don't block charging cavalry like units in formation would?

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Yes. You can always move through Routing Units.