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An Unknown Future

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I'm just rather amazed that people aren't talking about actions or anything.

I am seriously considering just cutting the moratorium at this point. I'm reasonably certain it's killing conversation by driving people away from participating in the quest who otherwise would.

Drive by voters aren't my favorite type of voters, but they do generate interest, and if I'm trading them off for a moratorium, but that moratorium is constantly failing to generate meaningful discussion, well... I don't see why I should keep the moratorium.
 
Personally, I'm happy to go along with them for now. It's not like they're taking advantage of us or anything, and we do get technological benefit from them, so why not?

I'm thinking something like:

[][Sky Meet] Everything! This is a time for celebration!
[][Action] Refine Story
[][Action] Build Rafts
 
Right, so, it's a bit early, but no discussion is going on, so Moratorium is over.

I've also decided that the Moratorium is detrimental to the health of this quest or, at the least, not beneficial, so it isn't coming back until there are enough players or enough active discussion that I feel it is needed.

While I do like and greatly appreciate discussion and am willing to do things that might scare off some players for the sake of people being able to play a well reasoned and thought out game, I haven't seen the moratorium generate the desired effect and I fear that I'm scaring people off for no reason as a result.

Anyways, Vote Open.
 
[X][Sky Meet] Everything! This is a time for celebration!
[X][Action] Refine Story
[X][Action] Build Rafts
 
bluefur87 said:
I am seriously considering just cutting the moratorium at this point. I'm reasonably certain it's killing conversation by driving people away from participating in the quest who otherwise would.
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Its too short.
The update goes up when I leave for work. Moratorium is over when I'm out of a car.

At least I got enough lead time to think about the options first
 
The Sky Stone Tribe has arrived with Stone Tools as gifts! Do you wish to offer them anything?

[][Sky Meet] Nah, we're good.

Try to distance our tribes. Counterproductive really.

[][Sky Meet] Sing stories in Skytail's name!

Reinforce the vassal relationship...but get their shit for nothing.

[][Sky Meet] Offer them some of your extra food for the trip back!

Makes the relationship closer to equal(but also more distant), by making it a trade of tools for food. And we of course, get tools for food.

[][Sky Meet] Everything! This is a time for celebration!

Pushes us closer together. Reinforces their authority however.
The food was after all, due to them in public perception.


[X][Sky Meet] Everything! This is a time for celebration!
[X][Action] Build Rafts
[X][Action] Scout - Along the coast

So, we build rafts because we want fishing and the capacity to migrate if needed, and we keep looking for cool stuff. Still want to find a river if we can.
 
veekie said:
Its too short.
The update goes up when I leave for work. Moratorium is over when I'm out of a car.

At least I got enough lead time to think about the options first
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I think the major problem here is that there just doesn't seem to be that many people actively participating. If that were to happen, then I'd be ecstatic to have a moratorium.

I'm up for suggestions on how to increase player participation. I may be a relatively experienced player, but I'm a new QM and it's rather hard feeling out the ropes of what helps and what doesn't help my quest live and grow.

I'm open for suggestions, but I don't think a moratorium is good for the present environment of this quest. Or, again, beneficial.

Edit: I also don't want to try things haphazardly that would confuse my players as to how the quest works.
 
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[X][Sky Meet] Nah, we're good.
[X][Action] Craft Tools
[X][Action] Craft Tools x2

I want to try and not be a vassal.
 
Archive: Civilization Stat sheet for " Inscrutable Skies "; (Update 4.1/ Threadmark 5)
bluefur87 said:
Stats:

Tools: Some
Culture: Very Low
Prestige: None
Population: Very Low
Authority: Moderate
-???
-Omnivore: Access to all types of food.
-Playful Fox: Bonus to social interactions.
-Vassal of Sky Stone Tribe.
A Better Way
When someone is forced between hard choices and a need to sacrifice something, it is because they have not found the correct trail on which to travel.
Pros: More options when facing a crises.
Cons: More things are considered a crises by your population.
Organization Type:
Primitive Despotic Tribe:
A form of government where there is one individual who the tribe all look to for jobs and chores to do. This individual does not have any tradition that gives them a leadership over the Tribe, but there is something about the culture that puts an immense amount of power in their hands to the point where there might as well be.

Leadership: Matriarchy
Tools
-Advanced Stoneworking

Food
-Hunting and Gathering

Transportation
-Primitive Rafts

Spiritual
-Stone Seeing
-Stone outcrop
-Giant Rabbit hunting grounds
-Skyberry Grove
River Valley: A large river flanked by heavily wooded hills. It is the current residence of your family.

Sky Stone Camp: The site of a tribe that lives far up the Great River Valley, known for their immense talent seeing the world through the stones.
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Welcome, this list will mark changes like this: Section name: list of names of new stuff added, (list of stuff lost in the section name)
Tools: Some
Traits: Vassal of Sky Stone tribe
Social Structure: Primitive Despotic Tribe, Matriarchy
Resources: Giant Rabbit hunting grounds, Skyberry Grove
 
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bluefur87 said:
Right, I've been wondering how much I should point out with these things of yours, because you've missed at least one thing in the past, but this is wrong.

Also, how did you not notice the biggest change there?
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Yeah, I've screwed up last time it was the spiritual addition with stone seeing. This time how did I MISS MATRIARCHY! KNOW what, I'll just post the changed stats, someone else can post the changes.
 
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bluefur87 said:
I think the major problem here is that there just doesn't seem to be that many people actively participating. If that were to happen, then I'd be ecstatic to have a moratorium.

I'm up for suggestions on how to increase player participation. I may be a relatively experienced player, but I'm a new QM and it's rather hard feeling out the ropes of what helps and what doesn't help my quest live and grow.

I'm open for suggestions, but I don't think a moratorium is good for the present environment of this quest. Or, again, beneficial.

Edit: I also don't want to try things haphazardly that would confuse my players as to how the quest works.
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Mostly need more advertising, from what I see your players are spread across wide timespans so you get little discussion because other than my omnipresence across Quests :p most of your players have about...an estimated 2-3 hours online per day, most of which don't overlap.

You could try advertising in one of the other civ games...with permission from their OP of course. Just beware the resultant flood.

Keep in mind most of those are run by questors with long established brands. They start with a huge mass
 
Marlin said:
Are you talking about authority being moderate? That's the most obvious thing I missed.

Whose authority, our overlord's influence on us, or our authority on them?
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...
*puts that down as something that can be alluded to in hints*

veekie said:
You could try advertising in one of the other civ games...with permission from their OP of course. Just beware the resultant flood.
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I have put my quest link in my sig, so I'm somewhat aware of that.

Something about talking about my quest in other threads doesn't sit well with me. It's probably just a combination of stubborn and nerves, though. Maybe I can get over it, but it still seems off in a way I can't describe.
 
bluefur87 said:
...
*puts that down as something that can be alluded to in hints*


I have put my quest link in my sig, so I'm somewhat aware of that.

Something about talking about my quest in other threads doesn't sit well with me. It's probably just a combination of stubborn and nerves, though. Maybe I can get over it, but it still seems off in a way I can't describe.
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You can also try their discords. Its less formal
 
bluefur87 said:
I have put my quest link in my sig, so I'm somewhat aware of that.

Something about talking about my quest in other threads doesn't sit well with me. It's probably just a combination of stubborn and nerves, though. Maybe I can get over it, but it still seems off in a way I can't describe.
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Wouldn't work anyway. Yesss, the idea is logical, but this is a sheep in a field of sheep quest. Took an interesting turn with vassal hood.

This quest is different from the micro-management of PoC. We have just begun, and the style isn't... I see crushed ice, when I'm expecting ice cream. PoC players don't usually move into other civ games in-mass.

Veekie is the voice of reason to guide us into vassalhood, might be a turn off for PoC players.

Don't expect a massive turn-out even with advertising, most quests don't have 100 players on the first post, or the second, or the 26th post. 10-20 players is a large player base. PoC was just plain weird, and AN already had a voter base from prior quests, then the first 500 pages in less than a month was reached.
 
[X][Sky Meet] Offer them some of your extra food for the trip back!
[X][Action] Build Rafts
Hoping we can go fishing
[X][Action] New Camp
 
Marlin said:
Wouldn't work anyway. Yesss, the idea is logical, but this is a sheep in a field of sheep quest. Took an interesting turn with vassal hood.

This quest is different from the micro-management of PoC. We have just begun, and the style isn't... I see crushed ice, when I'm expecting ice cream. PoC players don't usually move into other civ games in-mass.

Veekie is the voice of reason to guide us into vassalhood, might be a turn off for PoC players.

Don't expect a massive turn-out even with advertising, most quests don't have 100 players on the first post, or the second, or the 26th post. 10-20 players is a large player base. PoC was just plain weird, and AN already had a voter base from prior quests, then the first 500 pages in less than a month was reached.
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I mean, we don't have 10 to 20. But no, my bigger concern is that the players aren't discussing things very much. All things said, I'm not sure people even understand why they are a vassal here.

This isn't the the sort of game where you can expect things to turn out well if you don't discuss your options and what they do with each other.

That said, I have been thinking of pulling back on my ridiculous pace these past five days, since I do not think this update pace is sustainable in the long run, so I'm going to go ahead and leave the vote open for another day here.
 
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I am asleep during the moratorium, so can't really discuss anything during it.
But seeing as the vote is up for a bit longer I will try to do an analysis of our options

[][Sky Meet] Nah, we're good.
This is basically the let's not be a vassal anymore. Could be good but it would make integration more or less impossible.
But one good thing might be that we start not believing in the whole stone future nonsense.
But our stone religion could possibly (maybe) lead to us discovering metals/obsidian/other useful stones faster as we are studying more stones all the time

[][Sky Meet] Sing stories in Skytail's name!
This is an interesting option with a lot of potential consequences.
First things first this will probably increase our culture.
It also does not really give her anything, which makes sure that our vassalage does not develop into a relationship where we give her stuff.
Without more food her tribe is always going to be the smaller one and only our "rulers" as long as we want it.
But it might lead to deification as the songs and stories become more exaggerated.

[][Sky Meet] Offer them some of your extra food for the trip back!
I think this option furthers our vassalization as it basically means we start giving them food in return for vague guidance.

[][Sky Meet] Everything! This is a time for celebration!
So everything all at once. Our vassalization is formalized with us giving food in return for them ruling us and then we start worshiping Skytail.

Be Creative: Encourage discussion, storytelling, whatever people can think of in order to enrich the lives of your people.
Culture and maybe some innovations, could be good we kind of need more culture? (don't really know what more culture does but we are LOW ON IT!)

Build Rafts: Use tools to make extra rafts to allow you to travel much farther to get far away resources and explore further, as long as it is along a waterway.
Good for a lot of things. More food from fishing, more exploration and makes migration easier.

Craft Ornaments: Create extra decorative pieces with which to adorn people and their dwellings.
More culture? social stratification? honestly not sure what this does for us.

Craft Tools: Create a stockpile of tools with which to work on major projects.
More tools are always a good thing but we have a decent amount of tools. One thing that could be good with this is that it insures we make our own tools instead of relying on the stoners.
Could also lead to more stone tool innovations?

Forget Story: Some songs are best forgotten, ornaments best left buried where the next generation can't see. Make an effort to forget several traditions. (Current Targets Available: A Better Way)
I have no idea why you would want to do this.

Insult: Show your greatness by insulting another group and showing they can not respond to you. (Current Target Available: Sky Stone Tribe They're awesome!)
I am not sure our people would like this, but it is one way of breaking the vassalage. Would probably have to be taken with not giving them anything.

Meet: Sit down and talk with a group to exchange stories and gifts. (Current Target Available: Sky Stone Tribe)
More culture and maybe a way to get a more equal relationship.

Migrate: Perhaps, this land is not good for your people. Migrate to a new land. (Current Targets Available: White Mist Coast, the Rocky Mountain Coast, Upriver)
A possibility but still do not really see a reason why we would want to.

New Camp: Use tools to construct more permanent shelters so your Foxes can live more comfortably.
Sounds like a good idea as it seems like we will stay here for a while.

Raid: Someone has stuff that you want or need. Go take it. (Current Target Available: Sky Stone Tribe Still too awesome!)
I do not think our people would be up to doing this and don't really feel like it's a good idea.

Refine Story: Discuss the true meaning of a story and how your family should interpret it. (Current Target Available: A Better Way)
Better values which is great. Could be a good thing to do.

Scout: Explore your surroundings to see what you can find.
Always a good action at least until we know the land as well as possible.

Tell New Story: Songs can be steered to teach new lessons and ornaments new meanings where they had none before.
New values are also a great thing, we should absolutely do this some time.

So I think my analysis have been quite anti vassal and anti stone sky tribe but honestly think we should try for integration.
Just that it is something we should be careful about so that we do not end up in a bad situation.

so with that said this is my vote.
[X][Sky Meet] Sing stories in Skytail's name!
[X][Sky Meet] Offer them some of your extra food for the trip back!
[X][Action] Build Rafts
[X][Action] Meet: Sky Stone Tribe
 
bluefur87 said:
All things said, I'm not sure people even understand why they are a vassal here.
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Around when we picked Beg them for their wisdom we had seconded decisionmaking to them.

Then we formalized the relationship by sending our leaders to ask them for advice.
Which gave our leaders double the authority but made them very informal liege lords.

Counting from the point where we chose to beg them for their wisdom rather than spank them and drag them home, or cut them loose our choices were:
-Individuals - This puts them as a decentralized source of influence. They would have grassroots influence on whoever felt concerned enough to visit, but no overt leadership level benefits and costs. They may take over, or the difficulty of travel disrupts things eventually. Down this route, if background events were the same, we probably would not have had gotten food in time for the starvation crisis.

-Hunters - This gives them access to our warrior class, which means that we now have Crafter-Leaders and Warriors advised by the shamans. Rather obvious side effects if they manage to sway the warriors to their side and the crafters disagree.

-Crafters - This makes our leaders the intermediary between the people and the shamans. It controls the flow of information, since authority flows from the stones, to the shamans to the crafters to the people. But it subordinates us to them, while strengthening our own leaders control over our people.

-Student - This makes them the petitioner, where they keep a messenger in our camp to tell them whats going on. Down this route we're in control because they send us advisors and petitioners, but they control the flow of information.

-All three - Well, for starters leaving the village without ANY authority figures whenever we consult them is going to be trouble.

Keeping in mind that vassalization is not really a problem as long as we sustain growth, their location is too food scarce to outgrow us, so we'd eat them more than the other way.
Chestbursting is a thing for more complex societies, but there isn't really any way for them to keep us save for continuing to be useful. If one of their quests go wrong...well tables turn.
 
Dimonay said:
[][Sky Meet] Offer them some of your extra food for the trip back!
I think this option furthers our vassalization as it basically means we start giving them food in return for vague guidance.
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Actually they brought a shipment of tools

Dimonay said:
Craft Ornaments: Create extra decorative pieces with which to adorn people and their dwellings.
More culture? social stratification? honestly not sure what this does for us.
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Artisan class expands. Innovation for tool skills is behind this as its 'frivolous' crafting.
Dimonay said:
New Camp: Use tools to construct more permanent shelters so your Foxes can live more comfortably.
Sounds like a good idea as it seems like we will stay here for a while.
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Still want a better site. This is kind of shitty
 
[X][Sky Meet] Offer them some of your extra food for the trip back!
[X][Action] Build Rafts
[X][Action] Scout - Along the coast

bluefur87 said:
Right, so, it's a bit early, but no discussion is going on, so Moratorium is over.

I've also decided that the Moratorium is detrimental to the health of this quest or, at the least, not beneficial, so it isn't coming back until there are enough players or enough active discussion that I feel it is needed.

While I do like and greatly appreciate discussion and am willing to do things that might scare off some players for the sake of people being able to play a well reasoned and thought out game, I haven't seen the moratorium generate the desired effect and I fear that I'm scaring people off for no reason as a result.

Anyways, Vote Open.
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I log in about once a day.
Not really affected.
 
veekie said:
Around when we picked Beg them for their wisdom we had seconded decisionmaking to them.

Then we formalized the relationship by sending our leaders to ask them for advice.
Which gave our leaders double the authority but made them very informal liege lords.

Counting from the point where we chose to beg them for their wisdom rather than spank them and drag them home, or cut them loose our choices were:
-Individuals - This puts them as a decentralized source of influence. They would have grassroots influence on whoever felt concerned enough to visit, but no overt leadership level benefits and costs. They may take over, or the difficulty of travel disrupts things eventually. Down this route, if background events were the same, we probably would not have had gotten food in time for the starvation crisis.

-Hunters - This gives them access to our warrior class, which means that we now have Crafter-Leaders and Warriors advised by the shamans. Rather obvious side effects if they manage to sway the warriors to their side and the crafters disagree.

-Crafters - This makes our leaders the intermediary between the people and the shamans. It controls the flow of information, since authority flows from the stones, to the shamans to the crafters to the people. But it subordinates us to them, while strengthening our own leaders control over our people.

-Student - This makes them the petitioner, where they keep a messenger in our camp to tell them whats going on. Down this route we're in control because they send us advisors and petitioners, but they control the flow of information.

-All three - Well, for starters leaving the village without ANY authority figures whenever we consult them is going to be trouble.

Keeping in mind that vassalization is not really a problem as long as we sustain growth, their location is too food scarce to outgrow us, so we'd eat them more than the other way.
Chestbursting is a thing for more complex societies, but there isn't really any way for them to keep us save for continuing to be useful. If one of their quests go wrong...well tables turn.
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*Restrains self from yelling about how the dice went off and cause this series of events with three crits and two massive successes at just the right time.*

But yeah, this is the sort of thing you can expect from a miscreant, though you were all so young and little one shouldn't have been able to cause this much of a change, even if you played along, but the dice had other things in mind.

Basically, you've gotten very early access to any form of government in a trade off for a heavy amount of strings being attached.
 
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