- Location
- New Mexico
We really weren't -- we probably could have just organized them all hierarchically so support one or two major projects, like building a university system or building our psionic titan or somesuch.
An Extra Primarch
- Thread starter ilbgar123
- Start date
- Location
- Here & There
Come next turn we can make a psionic titan. Hell let's mass produce psionic titans. Sure the Emperor said that we should focus more on mundane tech, but titans are partly mundane tech. They count. Plus making titans does not involve crafting/upgrading new Crystals, which means we avoid the Emperor's soft cap on Crystal making.
The Froggy Ninja
The Blade Will Never Die
@ilbgar123, aside from being five years each how will the format of turns past 35 change? Because having five times the AP each turn would probably make things grind to a holt.
- Location
- Canada
While awesome Titans are pretty low on the priority list compared to solidifying our grasp of higher level tech and biology. After thatnfurther inproving pur infrastructure and governmental structure will pay dividends in the future when we have necron and tyranid problems and everything is on fire.
Sir LagsAlot
Yandere Dice Magnet
- Location
- In the fridge
I in no way, shape or form in that post implied that your complaint was illegitimate only that if your going to complain offer a potential viable solution for the system instead of relying on the players to self nerf because people are becoming impatient well waiting for updates. Also if you think power creep is a problem don't badger others about it find a solution and present it to Ilbgar and the thread so that we can fix it.
- Location
- Here & There
While both enemy factions are tens of millenia in the future, yeah infrastructure is important. I'm just saying that we can make those as well.
- Location
- United states
Gee, it's like people can't point out something or make any complaints even if they view it as legitimate with that tone.
Sir LagsAlot
Yandere Dice Magnet
- Location
- In the fridge
You can complain all you want but it's not going to accomplish anything so take the world into your own hands and do something about it. That's what I'm doing right now I want an update faster so I'm calculating the checks for Ilbgar so that I can get what I want. Why don't you do the same?
ExNihilo
SPACE!
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
A Proposal to Reduce Action Bloat
Turns have gotten pretty ridiculous recently. Literally hundreds of actions, adjustments in orders, and very rarely competing plans, merely variants and modifications. Group effort plans are useful in some fashions but don't make it easy for competing views to take any hold. With 5-year turns just around the corner, and constant efforts to get more actions per turn, this is not going to get better, only worse. Some actions have been suggested, such as halving amounts and doubling power, however, these are only stopgaps, as a true hyperbolic time chamber will cancel out any potential gains. Instead, I am proposing a new action strategy:
Turn Foci
Each turn, instead of actions, we are given a set of foci. These could be things like: Research, Engineering, Social, Culture, and Exploration. Power, representing how much time and effort we have available, is put into these foci, representing how much we focus on this area. Within each focus, specific things of interest could be highlighted, but overall, general progress is made in the area, depending on what comes up. An example turn could be:
Turn XY:
Exploration: 12%
-Towards Prospero
-Towards Sol
-Generally Outwards
Engineering: 36%
-Megastructures
-War Vehicles
-Infrastructure and Housing
Science: 40%
-Crystals
-Robotics
-Stellar Physics
Social: 12%
-Family
-Horus Lupercal
-Researchers
Advantages:
-Action bloat greatly reduced, and permanently
-QM can focus on things that make narrative sense, and can do SLs that are needed, instead of having to come up with believable problems for highly competent individuals
-Focus is still possible, as focus interests can be as specific as needed.
-Reduces accidentally forgetting about things Serras would remember, I.E. no particular science would fall behind.
Cons
-Puts some extra pressure on QM/Helpers, as what has to be done has to be determined there, instead of in-quest.
-Loses some granularity, could be difficult to do lots of specific tasks at the same time.
Thoughts and/or suggestions?
Turns have gotten pretty ridiculous recently. Literally hundreds of actions, adjustments in orders, and very rarely competing plans, merely variants and modifications. Group effort plans are useful in some fashions but don't make it easy for competing views to take any hold. With 5-year turns just around the corner, and constant efforts to get more actions per turn, this is not going to get better, only worse. Some actions have been suggested, such as halving amounts and doubling power, however, these are only stopgaps, as a true hyperbolic time chamber will cancel out any potential gains. Instead, I am proposing a new action strategy:
Turn Foci
Each turn, instead of actions, we are given a set of foci. These could be things like: Research, Engineering, Social, Culture, and Exploration. Power, representing how much time and effort we have available, is put into these foci, representing how much we focus on this area. Within each focus, specific things of interest could be highlighted, but overall, general progress is made in the area, depending on what comes up. An example turn could be:
Turn XY:
Exploration: 12%
-Towards Prospero
-Towards Sol
-Generally Outwards
Engineering: 36%
-Megastructures
-War Vehicles
-Infrastructure and Housing
Science: 40%
-Crystals
-Robotics
-Stellar Physics
Social: 12%
-Family
-Horus Lupercal
-Researchers
Advantages:
-Action bloat greatly reduced, and permanently
-QM can focus on things that make narrative sense, and can do SLs that are needed, instead of having to come up with believable problems for highly competent individuals
-Focus is still possible, as focus interests can be as specific as needed.
-Reduces accidentally forgetting about things Serras would remember, I.E. no particular science would fall behind.
Cons
-Puts some extra pressure on QM/Helpers, as what has to be done has to be determined there, instead of in-quest.
-Loses some granularity, could be difficult to do lots of specific tasks at the same time.
Thoughts and/or suggestions?
Sir LagsAlot
Yandere Dice Magnet
- Location
- In the fridge
This works extremely well with checks and the likes as we can easily just apply a + bonus to any of the categories already outlined on the sheet based off the percent of effort we put into it and the amount of actions that should represent. Nice job Nihilo.
Also I'm fine with any extra pressure put on me.
- Location
- Here & There
Anything to make the math easier. It would help everyone if more than a few people in the thread were able to confidently crunch the stats. The ones more into the rp aspect would be able to make plans more based on how they feel the themes and plot of the quest shall got without significant accusations of poor min maxing. Regarding this form of revamp, how likely are the chances of mass failures to upgrade tech?
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- Location
- Reno Nv
Seems like a good idea, but it seems like it would just have the same problem. Like the quest that finished Altered Humanity, they did the same format, and we went crazy with it. Hell some argunets escalated so far that the QM had to stop the thread, but it was a fun game. I just prefer this format better, and if the QM needs help, we can provide it to him.
- Location
- Here & There
Could you explain that a bit further regarding the arguments? Part of the goal is to encourage discussion and more options for voters, how exactly did this backfire?
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- Location
- Reno Nv
Well, with the quest Altered Humanity, it was set in the Mass Effect world, due to this, many people were getting in to a large amount of discussions for the quest, but some of those discussions escalated in to arguments that spanned multiple pages, and caused the Mods to come down on it. Now I understand that this happens form time to time in Quests, the problem in it was the regularity that it poped up in. I understand were @ExNihilo is coming from, and I want to have the QM have as little work as possible, but I am just worried that it may course a larger amount of arguments poping up. Hell Altered Humanity was a great quest, with a great story and such, only the arguments were to much. If it changes to this format, I will accept it and go along with the quest, I enjoy it to much to quit, but I am worried that some arguments may become to much. Such as, "General Focus, Create Crystal", Serras goes and creates different crystles, but the crystel that we want, lest say an Alcohol crystel, is not made, and instead She creates a Fire crystel. the micro managment control relly helps for people to get what they are looking for. On the other hand this is super tedious for the QM. Sorry I am rambling, a better system may be combination of both, General super actions for the over head topic, and a few finer actions for a spefic topic. Like "General Crystles", "Fine, Crystes that help boost drinks" and some such. But this is just my opion to take it or leave it.
Travler66
Let her name echo in song!
- Location
- Beyond
This sounds like a good idea, but @Speed53066 might have a point. We dont want any arguement to get toxic or span many threads.
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Sir LagsAlot
Yandere Dice Magnet
- Location
- In the fridge
Alright I got all the Crystals done but I ran into a problem when I want to go look at the calculation that Skjadir did he seems to have added a plus 10k from Runes to anti corruption cogitators check for some reason and taken off almost 14k points from it. And on top of that I'm going to need an explanation from ilbgar123 on what this means:
Also a list of the relevant checks and stats involved for tri2's plan would help as well.
Power Check: 5 Checks Passed.
Control Check: 4 Checks Passed.
Learning Check: 3 Checks Passed. - 1015 to Check difficulty.
Invention: Practical + Industry: 210+ Psyker: Esoteric + Navigators: 325+ Forging: Gear: 200+ 28860(Psyker bonuses)+ 72165(Invention bonuses)+ 9340(Forging bonuses)=111100 X 2 = 222200.
Temperance Rune: 222200 = 222200.
Morality Rune: 222200 = 222200.
Justice Rune: 222200 = 222200.
Compassion Rune: 222200 = 222200.
Integrity Rune: 222200 = 222200.
Willpower Rune: 222200 + 42190 = 264390..
Creativity Rune: 222200 = 222200.
Emotion Rune: 222200 = 222200.
Memory Rune: 222200 = 222200.
Heart Rune: 222200 = 222200.
Mind Rune: 222200 = 222200.
Patience Rune: 222200 = 222200.
Perseverance Rune: 222200 = 222200.
Bravery Rune: 222200 = 222200.
Humanity Rune: 222200 = 222200.
Wisdom Rune: 222200 + 42190 = 264390.
Learning Rune: 222200 = 222200.
Improvement Rune: 222200 = 222200.
Speech Rune: 222200 = 222200.
Perception Rune: 222200 = 222200.
Sophont Rune: 222200 = 222200.
Diplomacy Rune: 222200 = 222200.
Education Rune: 222200 = 222200.
Healing Rune: 222200 = 222200.
Medicine Rune: 222200 = 222200.
Evasion Rune: 222200 = 222200.
Combat Rune: 222200 = 222200.
Control Rune: 222200 = 222200.
Power Rune: 222200 = 222200.
Invention Rune: 222200 = 222200.
Psyker Rune: 222200 = 222200.
Forging Rune: 222200 = 222200.
Administration Rune: 222200 = 222200.
Mobility Rune: 222200 = 222200.
Cleanse Rune: 222200 = 222200.
Detection Rune: 222200 = 222200.
Survival Rune: 222200 = 222200.
Time Rune: 222200 + 42190 = 264390.
Space Rune: 222200 = 222200.
Durability Rune: 222200 = 222200.
Light Rune: 222200 = 222200.
Holy Rune: 222200 = 222200.
Structural Integrity Rune: 222200 = 222200.
Luck Rune: 222200 = 222200.
Concealment Rune: 22220 + 42190 = 264390.
Stealth Rune: 222200 = 222200.
Warding Rune: 222200 = 222200.
Speed Rune: 222200 = 222200.
Anti Corruption Cogitators
Electronics: Wiring: 150+ Forging: Gear: 200+ Education: General + Advanced: 320+ 20225(Electronics bonuses)+ 9340(Forging bonuses)+ 7140(Education bonuses)+ Workshop 47 640 = 85015 X 5 = 425075. (Note we haven't done any research on this yet so no reduction so even with an additional 10k from Runes were still 25k short of 500k.)
Also a list of the relevant checks and stats involved for tri2's plan would help as well.
Power Check: 5 Checks Passed.
Control Check: 4 Checks Passed.
Learning Check: 3 Checks Passed. - 1015 to Check difficulty.
Invention: Practical + Industry: 210+ Psyker: Esoteric + Navigators: 325+ Forging: Gear: 200+ 28860(Psyker bonuses)+ 72165(Invention bonuses)+ 9340(Forging bonuses)=111100 X 2 = 222200.
Temperance Rune: 222200 = 222200.
Morality Rune: 222200 = 222200.
Justice Rune: 222200 = 222200.
Compassion Rune: 222200 = 222200.
Integrity Rune: 222200 = 222200.
Willpower Rune: 222200 + 42190 = 264390..
Creativity Rune: 222200 = 222200.
Emotion Rune: 222200 = 222200.
Memory Rune: 222200 = 222200.
Heart Rune: 222200 = 222200.
Mind Rune: 222200 = 222200.
Patience Rune: 222200 = 222200.
Perseverance Rune: 222200 = 222200.
Bravery Rune: 222200 = 222200.
Humanity Rune: 222200 = 222200.
Wisdom Rune: 222200 + 42190 = 264390.
Learning Rune: 222200 = 222200.
Improvement Rune: 222200 = 222200.
Speech Rune: 222200 = 222200.
Perception Rune: 222200 = 222200.
Sophont Rune: 222200 = 222200.
Diplomacy Rune: 222200 = 222200.
Education Rune: 222200 = 222200.
Healing Rune: 222200 = 222200.
Medicine Rune: 222200 = 222200.
Evasion Rune: 222200 = 222200.
Combat Rune: 222200 = 222200.
Control Rune: 222200 = 222200.
Power Rune: 222200 = 222200.
Invention Rune: 222200 = 222200.
Psyker Rune: 222200 = 222200.
Forging Rune: 222200 = 222200.
Administration Rune: 222200 = 222200.
Mobility Rune: 222200 = 222200.
Cleanse Rune: 222200 = 222200.
Detection Rune: 222200 = 222200.
Survival Rune: 222200 = 222200.
Time Rune: 222200 + 42190 = 264390.
Space Rune: 222200 = 222200.
Durability Rune: 222200 = 222200.
Light Rune: 222200 = 222200.
Holy Rune: 222200 = 222200.
Structural Integrity Rune: 222200 = 222200.
Luck Rune: 222200 = 222200.
Concealment Rune: 22220 + 42190 = 264390.
Stealth Rune: 222200 = 222200.
Warding Rune: 222200 = 222200.
Speed Rune: 222200 = 222200.
Anti Corruption Cogitators
Electronics: Wiring: 150+ Forging: Gear: 200+ Education: General + Advanced: 320+ 20225(Electronics bonuses)+ 9340(Forging bonuses)+ 7140(Education bonuses)+ Workshop 47 640 = 85015 X 5 = 425075. (Note we haven't done any research on this yet so no reduction so even with an additional 10k from Runes were still 25k short of 500k.)
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- Location
- Reno Nv
Thanks Barron Lagsalot.
- Location
- Here & There
Your worries are noted. For the finer actions, wouldn't the highlighted minor focus within each foci ensure that we maintain some level of control over what things we want like with the previous system without the need for excessive calculations?
Correct me when I'm wrong (and for digging up dead flame wars) but wasn't the largest argument the thread had endured was over the Kingdom Hearts crossover event and what it entailed? While a few posters did leave because of the debacle, the DM was able to remedy the situation and the thread has stayed relatively stable.
- Location
- Germany
... wasn´t there a crystal in this batch that gave a 1k bonus per rank to invention/research ?
that was why i made them and was already accounting in the creation of it.
It is why every of these checks has that bonus.
What i did have was the Materials Science and the 5 ranks from that.
Lone Courier 6
Devilish Fool
- Location
- United States of Quests
... so next turn, does anyone wanna build a Keyblade as our ultimate non psyker personal Weapon? Hell keep in mind it could also enhance our psyker power.
Sir LagsAlot
Yandere Dice Magnet
- Location
- In the fridge
I think that was the Mind, Learning or Memory Crystal I just don't know what all the Crystals do also that -14k was the first 5 ranks of the invention? Is that consistent across all inventions?
- Location
- Here & There
I'd be interested in creating the X-Blade, with a few restrictions. One being that the signature ability of Keyblades be locked under elaborate & time consuming ceremonies. The rituals themselves can be lowered with training but Serras shouldn't have the ability to seal the Eye of Terror with so little effort.
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- Location
- Germany
found it and it was mind
and it might be a bit more then just 10k there as it is an Education bonus
- Location
- Reno Nv
this is true, I would be ok with that, just not for one heck of a flame war to occur.