Alchemical Solutions [Worm/Exalted] Thread 23: We Wonder Where Who Wanders When Watchers Wane

Pre-Vote Running Tally: Who Are Your Top 3 Choices For Orichalcum?


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A dynakinetic is as fast as they want to be.
Not in canon he's not.

There are pretty clear limits to Behemoth's ability to simultaneously manipulate different forms of energies mid-combat, or apply them to himself; we see this in New Delhi, when they get best results by hitting him with two different forms of energy.
His near-death experience in New Delhi certainly didn't induce him to speed up very much even before Scion got there, and he didn't outrun Scion, despite the fact that we have seen Leviathan do this, and Ziz outsmart him tactically.

Dude plain wasn't specced for speed, IMO anyway.

He might, should, be able to achieve better results when undistracted by anything, the way Ziz can perform mass monitoring when undisturbed in orbit, but that is speculation. It even makes sense from a design perspective; Eden wanted reasonable threats to civilization, not unstoppable murder machines, and constructs that could pose a significant threat to their creators were just not on.

Now Ziz is free to upgrade him, the way she did Levi in canon, but it would be an upgrade, not the base installation parameters.
 
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[X]Aisha Laborn(Who) for Moonsilver Caste.
-[X]Stunt: Across from the Alchemicals, Aisha leaned forward, almost vibrating with anticipation."So what you're saying, yeah, is that you want me for James Bond? Or Electra?" Saki covers her mouth as Taylor winces. "Maybe less explosions? More like Veronica Mars...." "Sold! I'll be the best secret agent who ever agented! One question though." She points "I get Saki's disguise power, right?"
 
Not in canon he's not.
In canon, they were following a plan. The Endbringers had consistently shown some improvement or new power each time the heroes got close to doing major damage, so their full capabilities are never actually known.

In New Dheli, Behemoth doesn't try to outrun Scion is because, at that point, Scion is no longer aiming just to drive the EBs off - it is known by the EBs that Scion will kill them now. In any event, their "deaths" are planned parts of a normal cycle, so they sandbag as much as they need to in order to fulfill the task assigned to them and to conserve their energy; since unleashing more of their potential power likely draws dramatically more power than they can sustain (they weren't properly set up by Eden, so that has all sorts of implications) they use exactly as much power as they need to keep up their charade.
 
I always assumed that Behemoth was really a dynakinetic that had no limit. The fact was that if he wanted to, he could just light the planets atmosphere on fire.

And then there is the fact that with Scion deciding to kill Behemoth, there was never a chance of him outrunning him. Some part of the EB's control must have recognized that and simply carried on as it was always going to try.
 
So, I was reminded of another candidate; Über. He's an adult, experienced, presumably at odd ends (this may have changed in the past week or two), would be reforming a villain, and I'm curious what his power would look like when converted.

Not a front-runner, perhaps, but neither is he completely unsupported; while he and Leet's dream was maybe a bit childish and their methods callous, they did envision a better world (after a fashion). Potential for any of the three remaining castes there.
 
Thermionic Orthodox Array would probably shut down persistent environmental effects; that Gray Boy bubble? Gone.
Persistent rip in dimensional space that refuses to close? Gone. Labyrinth opening a portal? Maybe, if she's good.
Behemoth trying to shape the immediate environmental space with dynakinesis? Lolnope.
It probably wouldn't mess with that last thing.
 
So, I was reminded of another candidate; Über. He's an adult, experienced, presumably at odd ends (this may have changed in the past week or two), would be reforming a villain, and I'm curious what his power would look like when converted.
isn't his power basically just a suped up version of IMPRINTED DATA CLUSTER?
 
In New Dheli, Behemoth doesn't try to outrun Scion is because, at that point, Scion is no longer aiming just to drive the EBs off - it is known by the EBs that Scion will kill them now.
Well, you could argue how much is 'staged', but he does:
Interlude 24 said:
Behemoth's silhouette thrashed as he tried to move out from beneath the shaft of light, but Scion only reoriented the beam, keeping it fixed on his target.
Behemoth slammed his claw into the glowing hero, and the shockwave tore him free of Scion's grip. Scion followed him with a glowing sphere of light, and Behemoth redirected his fall, generating an explosion in mid-air, hurling himself towards the assembled crowd.
Also this, which...isn't really a 'Imma let you kill me now' sort of thing.
The Endbringer glowed, and the swelling light was too intense to look at.

Just seeing it, there was no question of what he was doing. A final act of spite. Turning himself into a bomb.
(There's also the fact that they definitely job fighting in canon, and he's slow in canon - so unless they stop jobbing completely, he'll still be slow and totally willing to 'tank stuff'. How much they're stopping jobbing...well, you'd have some idea, I hope :p )
So, I was reminded of another candidate; Über.
Eh, I don't see him as Heroic, or having any real reason to be in the Assembly, either IC or OOC (who actually cares about him?).
isn't his power basically just a suped up version of IMPRINTED DATA CLUSTER?
Pretty much, in the sense that he gets quicker changes, but IDC lets the Alchemical actually learn the speciality without training, and also has a much wider scope (in the sense that you can have a speciality of basically anything, unlike Uber, who only gets 'techniques' (what constitutes a technique...but it's still more limited) - would likely be better as a Charm, but still...).
It probably wouldn't mess with that last thing.
It probably would (or at least kill aura) - Thermionic Orthodoxy Array changes things to full Essence, working on either the Autochthonian or Creation rules. Not Causality Essence (though it's possible that this might be the result when calibrated, especially if we've already got stuff going on with that). And I cannot see any reason for Behemoth to be able to manipulate non-Causality Essence stuff.
 
How long until vote end anyway (in hours), and whats the current tally anyway? Can't check tally since at work, and as usual the timezone hours leave me totally confused.

Been trying to figure out a way to get all of Gromwelds "Word of God" posts from all threads in a more automated way (easier to keep up to date that way too). Maybe might be worth XP for Aisha too, and even if not, hopefully will still prove handy reference.

Did manage to get all posts so far (something like 2650 posts from gromweld in all threads, including story posts).

Just have to go through and mark as disabled all the ones that are either nothing but "+1XP", storyposts or otherwise not at all relevant. Started that yesterday.

Worth noting that there was more than one laughing shark image there so far. Just a random mention. :p
 
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I dunno man, this feels a bit like the no limits fallacy ie we haven't seen the limit of Behemoth's speed therefore he has no limit.
We do know he is capable of redirecting kinetic energy. Generating it may be more difficult though, and drains proportionately more effort.

I don't really see him having any trouble using dynakinesis to superjump, but given his density and overall greater mass than his fellows, it'd be disproportionately shortening his remaining active lifespan, and unlikely to be done unless termination is about to happen.

We also know that switching modes take some time, and going to Rocket Propelled Behemoth thus is a relatively low threat possibility, given that he has more efficient ways to ruin your day.
 
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How long until vote end anyway (in hours), and whats the current tally anyway? Can't check tally since at work, and as usual the timezone hours leave me totally confused.
As of right now(ish), there are about 13 hours left until I close the vote.

I use PST/PDT which is West Coast USA (California) time, because that's where I live and people are going to have to translate the time no matter what time region I use.
Been trying to figure out a way to get all of Gromwelds "Word of God" posts from all threads in a more automated way (easier to keep up to date that way too). Maybe might be worth XP for Aisha too, and even if not, hopefully will still prove handy reference.

Did manage to get all posts so far (something like 2650 posts from gromweld in all threads, including story posts).

Just have to go through and mark as disabled all the ones that are either nothing but "+1XP", storyposts or otherwise not at all relevant. Started that yesterday.

Worth noting that there was more than one laughing shark image there so far. Just a random mention. :p
I know someone else has been compiling my posts, but on my phone right now so I can't quickly check. Regardless, this is definitely worth at least 8 XP, more if it somehow gets put in the wiki so that people (and me!) can search it.

And thank you for reminding me to use more laughing shark images.
 
I know someone else has been compiling my posts, but on my phone right now so I can't quickly check.
I did a bit, but stalled out a while ago (and as it says in my sig, it's not exactly organised :oops:).
more if it somehow gets put in the wiki so that people (and me!) can search it.
It is - actually pretty nicely laid out from memory. Search function, tags, organise by date and a couple of other stuff as well.
Edit:
Did manage to get all posts so far (something like 2650 posts from gromweld in all threads, including story posts).
And congratulations on finishing!
 
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[] Accord

Don't really want Aisha as a exalt.


Why? I don't want too because she is immature as fuck and not responsible ("with great power..." does not apply to Aisha - she does not give a shit about consequences IIRC, which mean somebody will have to babysit her until she grows up or learns on her fuckups - which is another can of shit), but she is heroic and has disticnt personality. And great shard.

I still don't want her as a part of Assembly too - too much power in her reckless hands - but I can sorta get why people vote for her.
Maybe we can buy up Temperance 3-4 in her char-gen...
EDIT: Nah, Temperance doesn't work like that. And implanting Intimacy "Consequences, motherfucker, do you think of them?!" will backfire once she Exalts. Damn.
 
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No One was :V.
it says so in his signature one post above Datakim's

I can't see signatures on mobile!
I did a bit, but stalled out a while ago (and as it says in my sig, it's not exactly organised :blush:).

It is - actually pretty nicely laid out from memory. Search function, tags, organise by date and a couple of other stuff as well.
Edit:

And congratulations on finishing!
Huh! I saw that you had a forum post with a bunch of my quotes, but I totally haven't noticed the WoG stuff on the wiki - going to have to look when I wake up (I really should be sleeping right now...). Good to know!
 
As of right now(ish), there are about 13 hours left until I close the vote.

I use PST/PDT which is West Coast USA (California) time, because that's where I live and people are going to have to translate the time no matter what time region I use.
You could use the time function, it's the point with a cricle around it in the toolbar of the text editor.

Is this the time you are going to close the vote?
 
It is - actually pretty nicely laid out from memory. Search function, tags, organise by date and a couple of other stuff as well.

And congratulations on finishing!

Truthfully, I cheated a bit. :)

The original WoG Beta thing (which is on the wiki, the first 4 threads) I entered posts to manually, but then I realised that there was no way in hell that was going to work for all threads. Especially later ones where Gromweld often made long and complex answer posts with replies to lots of people. Also, that looks ugly (new will include html).

So I basically programmed a simple Nettally equivalent that went through all the threads and collected every message posted by Gromweld ever. The messages are now stored in mysql db running on my machine along with relevant information and the content. Have to still mark as disabled lots of extraneous messages (made a GUI for that for myself), though I might make the full thing available for those interested in seeing how things developed over the years. But posts referring to specific vote from years ago (and containing no other info) or doing nothing but giving XP to specific omake just clutter it for those wanting only Words of God. I will then convert it to JSON and update them all to the wiki, which can use datatables like the old one to show it in a nice sortable way (will look more or less like the one already there, just with all messages from all threads and with better replyto boxes and images and such). Or thats the plan anyway. :)

Also makes it easier to keep it up to date this way.

Things I learned: After fetching the raw html, don't split distinct the messages using li tag (shockingly, in 23 threads, a couple people had used it in their messages, durrr :oops:).

Also, I can't recall who it was anymore, but whoever it was that in some thread posted a huge line of characters with absolutely no spaces (causing my GUI to break until I fixed it), I hate you (well, I can't recall who it was, but I would hate you if I did :p).
 
In canon, they were following a plan. The Endbringers had consistently shown some improvement or new power each time the heroes got close to doing major damage, so their full capabilities are never actually known.
Which is a fair point, but not the same thing as saying that their full capabilities continued to scale upwards.
Temporal energy is manifestly a thing in Worm, but the fact that Behemoth is a dynakinetic has not on-screen translated to anything like temporal manipulation. Quite the opposite, since it was Phir Se's time/energy manipulation that fucked him worst.

You need positive evidence to declare that Behemoth could increase personal speed by dynakinesis.
In New Dheli, Behemoth doesn't try to outrun Scion is because, at that point, Scion is no longer aiming just to drive the EBs off - it is known by the EBs that Scion will kill them now.
I strongly disagree.

If this were so, Behemoth would not have been trying to suicide nuke New Delhi when Scion caught up with him, nor would Ziz et al have turned on Scion at Gold Morning if they were hardcoded to allow him to kill them off.
Ziz certainly wouldn't have outright faked her death to deceive him.
If anything, the way the EBs chose sides validates Eden's apparent strategy of not letting the EBs be too strong or too versatile.

Hell, it's arguable that the EBs do not even understand their own origin; Scion is explicitly a blank to Ziz, after all, and she has the most insight.
In any event, their "deaths" are planned parts of a normal cycle, so they sandbag as much as they need to in order to fulfill the task assigned to them and to conserve their energy; since unleashing more of their potential power likely draws dramatically more power than they can sustain (they weren't properly set up by Eden, so that has all sorts of implications) they use exactly as much power as they need to keep up their charade.
Point of order:
Their deaths are allowed for as part of the cycle, but that is not the same things as stating that they were supposed to be expended.
Note how in Eden's original vision, not a single EB had been lost.

Furthermore, the EBs performing better is more a matter of tactics than it is power; see Khonsu, or how both Ziz and Leviathan changed tactics after Behemoth died.

Leviathan only needs to spend more time underwater to make things harder on the defenders, or to attack a city and move on to another, like he did in canon; Earth Bet is not awash with strategic-range teleporters.Ziz only needs to show up with weapons beforehand, instead of constructing them on the battlefield. Or pick difficult targets, like planes, where only fliers are viable participants.

Or they could simply attack simultaneously, splitting available forces.

EDIT
Also note that while the EBs may have large reserves of power, there is no evidence that their throughput scales up in the same way.
Ziz for example needs tons of uninterrupted free time to put most of her Rube Goldeberg schemes into action; she can't just do it all immediately, despite being a precog and postcog.
 
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