Alchemical Solutions [Worm/Exalted] Thread 23: We Wonder Where Who Wanders When Watchers Wane

[SomeCleverName]

Why? I don't want too because she is immature as fuck and not responsible ("with great power..." does not apply to Aisha - she does not give a shit about consequences IIRC, which mean somebody will have to babysit her until she grows up or learns on her fuckups - which is another can of shit), but she is heroic and has disticnt personality. And great shard.

I still don't want her as a part of Assembly too - too much power in her reckless hands - but I can sorta get why people vote for her.
Maybe we can buy up Temperance 3-4 in her char-gen...
EDIT: Nah, Temperance doesn't work like that. And implanting Intimacy "Consequences, motherfucker, do you think of them?!" will backfire once she Exalts. Damn.

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That is it almost exactly, she is a 13~14 year old girl who is no doubt heroic but she does not understand the full scope of what we are trying to do. Nor does her shard/powers do anything for getting Atuo-bot to Earth-bet.

I could hammer down on the immaturity point but I think everyone knows that already, but what draws me to Accord is that he, with clarity 10, could actually advise the rest of the assembly on our future goals. With Aisha I don't really see a need for the sneaking around when we already have Optical Shroud and it's submodules.

Just my two cents.

 

[Datakim]

Interesting things of note (will edit later if something interesting comes up. Obviously some might have become obsolete):

- Auto does not make new Alchemicals in Autochtonia. Sakuras situation of hijacking a pre-existing body was presumably unique due to dual exaltation 2823352

- Age matters when exalting, but Gromweld can equalize things by giving other extra bonuses to young exalts 2828440 2830752 (presumably we got Lord Grasp to make up for Saksi lack of combat experience?)

- Giving Labyrinth Willpower would help her issues. Presumably would be extra-effective if she had a soul (possible way to get friendly relations with Faultlines group?). Also, if Labyrinths power is suppressed, she becomes good enough not to have to rely on others for care (Sakis dimension would be a nice vacation spot for her) 2936324

- Its technically possible for Taylor to use omni-tools to "craft" Alexandrias body back together, since her body is basically inorganic. Alexandria is basically more like "royal warstrider" than human, so it would require lots and lots of successes though. *cough* Iris *cough* SPU *cough* Baboon army! *cough* SoPA *cough*. 3165442

- Alchemical conversion should ultimately boil down to: "do you want to see more of these characters in the story?" 3181540

- We get XP back if we convert an Ally like Accord or Wyld (huh) 3183094

- Bonesaw forcefully kept the twins conscious all the time, implanted 7-8 extra eyes, ripped out the eyelids and replaced them with constantly flowing tearducts. Yeah, Saki will be totally fine with Bonesaw. 3183862

- Worth remembering that our last conversion should be a "slam-dunk, no-doubts-about-it-candidate" 3660410

- Autos "turn you into a real human" process only works if you are biologically human. @Gromweld, does this mean we cannot give souls to horribly mutated C53s that are no longer biologically identical to exalted humans? 3689125

- "Which leads us to another point: even a few hours of "normal" torture can irrevocably change a person, and what the S9's victims have experienced is well beyond that. The Twins will most definitely bear scars from their experience, but the longer Missy (and Bobby) undergo similar/worse suffering brings up the question of whether she will be the same person when (if?) we retrieve her." Have we actually visited Missy since she was rescued? 3810368

- Iris can talk to Auto while in TIE, so we could potentially ask about Sakura (or other important things) if we wanted to (dwindling due to limited power though). 3884377

- Telling Lisa she is off the exaltation list would "help immensely" (possibly especially if we tell her about the caste requirements and that its now very improbable or impossible even if we wanted for some reason?) 4111533

- Also, forgiving her about the whole Coil/Danny thing wouldl ikely also help (same message as above). Taylor would have had no way to know Lisa feels guilty and is afraid of revenge, but Saki could probably figure out that this is a problem. (same message as above).

- Miss Militias converted shard would "have even less restrictions and more Bullshit" (same as above)

- Are there any artifacts that can shield against shaping? (would help fix C53s) 4134038

- Lisa has not (at the time of the post atleast) managed to convince others that we are EVIL! (should make easier to convince Brian about Aisha). 4697097

EDIT 1:

- Telling Cauldron that AIs can trigger might have given them the idea of trying to create AIs they can artificially trigger (vial program is hard because human brains are difficult to predict). Crap (edit, later message mentions how they are worried about AIs going rogue so hopefully not). 4703963

- Dragon was Richters attempt to create an artificial human mind (in this quest anyway). Something to keep in mind when coming up with plans to create backups (essentially asking to clone her) in Sakis dimension etc. 4737201

- Did we tell Marrow that VoV ate her body yet? (Taylor apparently was keeping it in storage) 4737354

- Something to keep in mind. Specialty dots sometimes lead to plot points that would otherwise be missed. 4921643

- Lots of people have triggered post-S9 (not that this is a shocker) 5177826

- You know, I wonder if we will be able to directly talk to the shard spirit in SoPA after all of this? (not really directly relevant but this post brought the idea to mind) 5241185

- If we want Iris to create a demesne, worth remembering that we need to pay XP for it (its a background). 5327559
- However all Demesnes are level 1 to begin with (so we pay only 1 dot), and we can upgrade them to higher later once the world has finished converting in its entirety. 5357025

- If we want to unchain dragon, getting to 3 dot AI specialty would be helpfull (but not necessary). 5335248

- Once Demesne is created and gets going, the only way to stop its conversion of the planet is to destroy said planet. 5341972

- Plot will happen when the assembly deadline hits... 5345495

- On soul trauma: "There are plenty of ways to mind-wipe people of the experience, but they'll still occasionally dream (nightmare) about it in a (much more) detached sense." 5380783

 

[uju32]

("with great power..." does not apply to Aisha - she does not give a shit about consequences IIRC, which mean somebody will have to babysit her until she grows up or learns on her fuckups - which is another can of shit)

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That is it almost exactly, she is a 13~14 year old girl who is no doubt heroic but she does not understand the full scope of what we are trying to do. Nor does her shard/powers do anything for getting Atuo-bot to Earth-bet.

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This isn't actually true.
A few months down the line in canon, she was running her own territory in post-Leviathan BB.
Post-Behemoth, she solved the Heartbreaker problem permanently and assumed responsibility for riding herd on and raising the Heartbroken.
And in this fic, she was the first person to pick up on the fact that the Exaltation process might be replicable.

Aisha is a more complicated personality than fanon would have you believe.

And implanting Intimacy "Consequences, motherfucker, do you think of them?!" will backfire once she Exalts.

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Intimacy towards Taylor. Intimacy towards the Wards.Intimacy towards her brother.
They all exist.
She cares what people think, which is one of the main handles on people's behavior.

Do not mistake her swag for her actual serious opinions; as Taylor told Clockblocker, "You only see what she wants you to see."
That's one of the reasons she's such a strong Moonsilver candidate.

 

[uju32]

Have we actually visited Missy since she was rescued? 3810368

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Off-camera.

Taylor was the person who recognized and rescued her.
One of the little tricks Jacob Rodrigo had in play was that he had her face disguised so that people couldn't recognize her; if worst came to worst and he lost, she'd be lost in the crowd of victims, especially since they also crippled her speaking ability.
Taylor picked her out of the crowd(Optical Enhancement + Perception 6), extracted her implants and literally rebuilt her face(Perfect surgery + Craft 5).

And while she's in New York, phones exist.
If there's stuff severely different, Miss "I have Perception 6, Investigation 5(+Reading People 2) AND a 2nd Perception Aug" should have been able to tell a long time ago, unless the GM chooses to obscure stuff for Plot Reasons.

 

[Vesperian]

Do not mistake her swag for her actual serious opinions; as Taylor told Clockblocker, "You only see what she wants you to see."
That's one of the reasons she's such a strong Moonsilver candidate.

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An excellent point. I'd also like to bring up the bridge scene right after our escape from Siberian and Bonesaw. Aisha complained about not wanting or knowing how to manage civilians, but when we left her with no other choice she jumped in and took control. Later on, when we came back to check on her, she was proudly showing how well she had managed the situation.

Her power leaves her uniquely able to avoid responsibility, but we're uniquely able to to make her face it. And what do you know, she handles it pretty well.

That is it almost exactly, she is a 13~14 year old girl who is no doubt heroic but she does not understand the full scope of what we are trying to do. Nor does her shard/powers do anything for getting Atuo-bot to Earth-bet.

I could hammer down on the immaturity point but I think everyone knows that already, but what draws me to Accord is that he, with clarity 10, could actually advise the rest of the assembly on our future goals. With Aisha I don't really see a need for the sneaking around when we already have Optical Shroud and it's submodules.

Just my two cents.

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To be fair, we already have what we need to get Auto to Earth-Bet in the form of Taylor and Iris. We could have won with just that, so any other Assembly members are to help us in dealing with other situations or to open avenues up to us. Wanna have someone infiltrate Cauldron? Send in the Moonsilver!

I also don't see a vote for Aisha being a vote against Accord, at least in the long run. His omake is encouraging, but I think people want to see how he responds to a soulgem before signing on to him getting an Exaltation.

I do agree that I'd love to see what Accord could come up with. Especially how he and his Shard-Charm would respond to being given the task "How do we cure Autochthon of his illness?" Considering that by Shards of the Exalted Dream it took the entire Exalted Host with a full complement of Twilights to cure him (though probably by changing his nature from the Great Maker to the Gunstar), you can't get much grander in scale.

I'm also hoping that Autochthon is actually learning things from the Shards as someone suggested. If so, I'd be tempted to find someone with a Shard that's focused on regeneration and tossing them in the Cradle. If his cancer can't be eliminated, then maybe it could be dealt with Deadpool-style. Still, that's all thoughts for after we survive long enough to bring him over. Though I suppose we could start conveying resources from Cauldron's alternate earths to Autochthonia by way of Safe Space and some high-speed, space-folding Tinkertech drones.

Come to think of it, why IS Safe Space so large? It seems like overkill or a tool for a purpose we have yet to learn.

 

[pjmoyer]

Come to think of it, why IS Safe Space so large? It seems like overkill or a tool for a purpose we have yet to learn.

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I have a feeling with its upgrade that it's been made to serve as an efficient prison for even the most intractable of Exalted's adversaries: various dragons, behemoths, elementals, Yozi sub-souls, demons, etc. And many of those do not come in a convenient (or even euclidean) shape and size.

 

[Sworl]

[X] Aisha Laborn (Who)

 

[uju32]

Her power leaves her uniquely able to avoid responsibility, but we're uniquely able to to make her face it. And what do you know, she handles it pretty well.

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Pretty much.
People forget: Aisha Laborn is insecure.

She's been bounced between her two parents for years.
She thinks her mother's drug use fucked her up as a child, gave her attention-span issues and messed with her intelligence.
She's watched her mother's life progressively deteriorate over years, which would come off as rejection of her in favor of drugs.
At least one of the procession of men in her mother's life has made a move at her that scared her badly enough to phone her brother at night.

Her junkie mom thought it was appropriate to hold parties that ended with sex in her daughter's room in canon; doubt it's the first time.

Her father gave up legal responsibility for her to her elder brother: another form of rejection.
Her brother tries, but Brian is barely out of his teens himself, and is not exactly equipped to handle a female teenager with stunning looks in a low-income area, during what is usually the most difficult period of a child's life.

She knows she's very good looking, but her mother's example would make for horrendously complicated intimacy issues, even if she wasn't still fourteen.

All of these would make for one thorny set of self-esteem issues on their own.
But it is complicated by a trigger that forces people to ignore her, compounding her issues.
Imagine what it must have felt like to have her only surviving relative and their team leave the BB refugee camp without even remembering she was alive.

It's why Taylor, even in full robo-mode, with all the penalties to her then middling social stats imposed by Clarity 5, was able to secure her loyalties with five words: I will not forget you.

Taylor doesn't care about her history, and refuses to acknowledge her issues as something to hold her back.
It's probably the same reason why Alec was good for her in canon, with the added bonus of Taylor providing an example to live up to; from bullied locker victim to mover and shaker.
Of all the Wards, Aisha's life experience probably gives her the best references for how much of a Big Deal this would have to be.

Frankly, she probably has the strongest loyalties towards Taylor of the lot of them.

Come to think of it, why IS Safe Space so large? It seems like overkill or a tool for a purpose we have yet to learn.

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Normal shards occupy significant chunks of a planet's surface apparently.
Note how even SoPA is fuckhueg, and required Taylor to get sorcerous transportation to get from one end of it to another.

 

[landcollector]

It's why Taylor, even in full robo-mode, with all the penalties to her then middling social stats imposed by Clarity 5,

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I don't remember the exact numbers from that time, but weren't we Clarity 6 or 7 at that point? We dropped to 5 and stayed there for a while on the road trip IIRC.

 

[uju32]

I don't remember the exact numbers from that time, but weren't we Clarity 6 or 7 at that point? We dropped to 5 and stayed there for a while on the road trip IIRC.

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Not sure to be honest.
It was at least Clarity 5, though.

 

[uju32]

One last point I'd like to make re: Aisha Laborn.

She was the girl who in canon gave permission to Jean-Paul Vasil, the bodyjacker, the son of a notorious Master, to take her over on the regular.
A degree of intimacy that squicked canon Taylor out.
When she gives her trust and her loyalties, she gives it totally; no half measures.

 

[ctulhuslp]

One last point I'd like to make re: Aisha Laborn.

She was the girl who in canon gave permission to Jean-Paul Vasil, the bodyjacker, the son of a notorious Master, to take her over on the regular.
A degree of intimacy that squicked canon Taylor out.
When she gives her trust and her loyalties, she gives it totally; no half measures.

Click to shrink...

Disclaimer: My knowledge of Exalted lore is shit.

There is no doubt that she is loyal and heroic when it is needed; my main problem is whether she will accept role of "servant of community" or whatever is the Alchemical, because so far she seems a bit more... "Solaroid" in how she treats problems.

Heroic, cool, loyal - that she is, but shouldn't Alchemicals live to serve - the vision, the mission, the state, the Autochton, the community? Isn't Aisha is too free-spirited for them?

Re: Holding territory...she just hunted down people she didn't like (criminals) and that's it? She didn't go full canon!Taylor with administrating rebuilding, did she? She just used her power to do what she thought was the right thing, that's it. Her heart is in the right place and she is heroic, but is this really enough?

What do I not understand about Alchemicals? Because it seems I do have wrong opinion of their typical mindset.

 

[Datakim]

I do agree that I'd love to see what Accord could come up with. Especially how he and his Shard-Charm would respond to being given the task "How do we cure Autochthon of his illness?" Considering that by Shards of the Exalted Dream it took the entire Exalted Host with a full complement of Twilights to cure him (though probably by changing his nature from the Great Maker to the Gunstar), you can't get much grander in scale.

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Really, its not a hard problem at all. All you need to do to cure Auto of his sickness of to kill him.

Oh, and thats not a joke. His sickness is an integral part of him (this was confirmed by Word of Gromweld too). Likely a part of the fact that one of his roles is the ability to transcend limitations and boundaries (such as creating exaltations and so on). A primordial being able to die is just one way that shows. If he stops being sick, he stops being Autochton, and becomes a completely new primordial.

His sickness is not however a MASSIVE problem normally. He was just fine for who knows how many millions of years (His birth into the Wyld, Zen Mu, creation of Creation and the Time of Glory that lasted for eons). So long as he has access to sufficient resources to keep fixing himself faster than his sickness damages him, he can permanently maintain himself in remission and avoid death basically forever. Which kinda makes his decision to exile himself into a place of utter emptiness with NO resources kinda silly (but hey! Avoided being eaten by Oblivion so theres that).

There is the minor issue that apparently his sickness DOES keep Oblivion in existence since the potential for Engine of Extinction exists (even if only as potential), but so long as we can prevent him from ACTUALLY dying, its not a total disaster. Sure, Oblivion exist, but presumably it won't eat Nowhereverse so long as Auto does not die.

And sure, removing Oblivion entirely would be nice and all, but it already had time to destroy EVERYTHING so its kinda late there. Theres also the minor issue that apparently it might well release the other exaltations based on a WoG I saw a while back.

Accord: "I did it, after 500 years, I did what they all said was impossible! I cured the Great Maker of his sickness. Oblivion is closed! Truly I am a genius!"
100 abyssal exaltations: "Thanks buddy, We will reward you greatly. With lots of Resonance!"
150 cursed solar exaltations: "Yeah, I promise that everyone will go super-powerfull and super-insane TWICE as fast as normal!"
50 GSP exaltations: "...crap, Malfeas is gone... Ok, that C53 looks vaguely like that demon I once saw. Good enough!"
100 Sidereal Exaltations: "Good work Accord, we will help you make a great plan for the future. All 100 us. Working together. All the time! We will NEVER separate and work independently again!"
300 Lunar exaltations: "Ooh. Werewolves sound cool!"
Accord: "....."

 

[Idan Dor]

IIRC, his self-imposed exile was less "must avoid being eaten by Oblivion" and more "I'm getting the hell out of here before the Solars start getting funny ideas about me...".

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This is from the wiki:

Finally, Ku represents Autochthon's fear. Once, Ku obsessed over fear of the other Primordials. Then, during the First Age, he obsessed over fear of the Solar Exalted, ultimately persuading the other Ministers and the greater Primordial they represented that escape to Elsewhere was Autochthon's only hope for survival. Now, with millennia to meditate on his rashness, Ku obsesses today over the possibility of Autochthon dying alone in the cold void of Elsewhere, a doom largely of his own making.

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So I think, you are right.

Side note: Ku is going to have a stroke when he hears about this.
Edit: Fixed typo.

 

[Rgal]

This is from the wiki:

So I think, you are right.

Side note: Ko is going to have a stroke when he hears about this.

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A Solar stroke?

 

[Vesperian]

One last point I'd like to make re: Aisha Laborn.

She was the girl who in canon gave permission to Jean-Paul Vasil, the bodyjacker, the son of a notorious Master, to take her over on the regular.
A degree of intimacy that squicked canon Taylor out.
When she gives her trust and her loyalties, she gives it totally; no half measures.

Click to shrink...

Indeed. I find the fact that wild child Who considers socially awkward hermit Weaver the sister she never had and looks to her for approval (though she'd never say so) absolutely adorable.

Disclaimer: My knowledge of Exalted lore is shit.

There is no doubt that she is loyal and heroic when it is needed; my main problem is whether she will accept role of "servant of community" or whatever is the Alchemical, because so far she seems a bit more... "Solaroid" in how she treats problems.

Heroic, cool, loyal - that she is, but shouldn't Alchemicals live to serve - the vision, the mission, the state, the Autochton, the community? Isn't Aisha is too free-spirited for them?

Re: Holding territory...she just hunted down people she didn't like (criminals) and that's it? She didn't go full canon!Taylor with administrating rebuilding, did she? She just used her power to do what she thought was the right thing, that's it. Her heart is in the right place and she is heroic, but is this really enough?

What do I not understand about Alchemicals? Because it seems I do have wrong opinion of their typical mindset.

Click to shrink...

The first thing to understand is that Exalts are larger-than-life personalities. They're supposed to be Big Damned Heroes. Alchemicals are beholden to the State, but they're never meek. As for Aisha, remember that she's been a Ward for a while now. She's been playing nice with the Powers That Be. Sure, she pranks, but there's never been mention of any serious disciplinary action against her. And despite repeated grievous injuries, including one that happened WHILE IN THE PRESENCE OF A PROTECTORATE LEADER, she hasn't jumped ship. Even though her brother and his friends are in the next city over. It's not like anyone could really stop her, either.

Personally, I think she's secretly grateful to finally have some stability in her life. I'd wager that once Autobot gives her his imperative, she'll be grateful for a truly meaningful purpose, as well. She'll always be mischievous, but so is Clockblocker. If anything, Earth-Bet could use some more laughs, and an Alchemical that has a hard time acting like a robot wouldn't be bad for our image.

Man, I did not expect to be defending Aisha as much as I have.

 

[uju32]

There is no doubt that she is loyal and heroic when it is needed; my main problem is whether she will accept role of "servant of community" or whatever is the Alchemical, because so far she seems a bit more... "Solaroid" in how she treats problems.
Heroic, cool, loyal - that she is, but shouldn't Alchemicals live to serve - the vision, the mission, the state, the Autochton, the community? Isn't Aisha is too free-spirited for them?

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She is currently a Ward.
Taking instructions from civilian officials. Not an issue.

Alchemicals serve the state and the Maker, but service is as much in intent as in what they do.
And Alchemicals mission goals can get very broad, with complete liberty as to how they are accomplished; see the Adamant Caste in particular.

Canon has the example of Magnanimous Radiant Servitor, an Orichalcum Caste Alchemical created by Claslat, and walked off to go serve Nurad because that's where they felt the Maker called them. The Alchemical metropoli of Loran and Xeras were formed by two Alchemicals who literally walked off the job in two different nations and moved into the wilderness because they got visions.

Hell, even when Taylor basically got the mission of Save Autobot, she was given complete liberty about how to go about it.
She could have gone villain instead of joining the PRT and it would have been perfectly justified.
We still could if we thought it was necessary.

The thing is, Alchemicals are always accountable.
To civilian superiors, to elder Alchemicals, to Divine Ministers, to the Maker.
They have very broad latitude of action, but eventually have to explain their actions and the reasons behind them to someone.

Solars, OTOH, are only accountable to themselves.

Re: Holding territory...she just hunted down people she didn't like (criminals) and that's it? She didn't go full canon!Taylor with administrating rebuilding, did she? She just used her power to do what she thought was the right thing, that's it. Her heart is in the right place and she is heroic, but is this really enough?

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Um, that's pretty much what all the Undersiders did?
Tats was the one with the Thinker ability to coordinate capital investments on behalf of the group.

Warlords do not, cannot rebuild; civilians do.
They provide the security, sometimes direction and sometimes investment of capital; that's it.
Most of what you are crediting canon Taylor with was done by people she provided security for, not herself; a sixteen year old non-Thinker certainly did not have the expertise.

 

[Datakim]

This is from the wiki:

So I think, you are right.

Side note: Ku is going to have a stroke when he hears about this.
Edit: Fixed typo.

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Yeah, he would likely have been killed (or more likely enslaved) by the Solars had he stayed. He exiled himself in the early days, when the Solars were just STARTING to go bugfuck insane. And the Solars did try to break through the Seal of Eight Divinities to get at him (managed to break up to 7 even).

If not for Oblivion though, it might have been smarter to just flee to deep into the wyld like Gaia did. Infinite amount of resources, and the Solars would have been unlikely to follow him once he got far enough away from Creation. Ofcourse his exile in Elsewhere would still probably have gone OK enough, if not for his rather idiotic mistake to:
a)Go to sleep.
b)Not set an alarm clock!
c)Make sure he could only be woken if all his divine ministers all agreed together to wake him up. Which is nearly impossible. The ministers can't even agree on the most basic things like creation of new gods (which are desperately needed), while the world is literally dying around them.

Also, we do have a WoG that we will get into conflict with a divine minister at some point. I figure that was (probably?) not referring to Vision, so likely one of the 8 will do something stupid and try to stop us when we start summoning Auto to Nowhereuniverse. They can't directly place their own interests above the greater primordial, but if they honestly think (even incorrectly) that what we are doing is going to be bad, they can probably try to stop us. Ku for example would likely be afraid of going to Nowhere, and try to stop it out of fear. 3rd circles are also supposed to have 7 2nd circles that help them express their natures, but Auto did SCIENCE (goddammit Auto) on the divine ministers, so they don't. I am sure that had no negative effects whatsoever...

Though Iris might be a potent weapon there. The divine ministers are bound by a geas not to wage war against each other, and Iris is a fetich of Auto so he probably counts as a 9th Divine Minister (of sorts), so they probably can't just directly go Essence 9 on our asses. Ofcourse they could send adamant exalts after us and fight indirectly, but atleast they might have trouble attacking directly while Iris is around.

All this might be a bit of concern for Sakura. Look at it from the POV of the divine ministers. Suddenly and with no warning, Autochtons spirits attack a city, kill no one(meaning not gremlins!) and activate an alchemical independently of human intervention (making it clear Auto did it directly) with a completely foreign and alien soul. Said exalt also has a very strange and alien charm completely unlike anything they have ever seen permanently installed, speaks in an ancient dialect old realm that no one in Autochtonia (except the Divine Ministers and Auto himself) really speaks anymore, and tells of a totally alien non-essence universe where Auto plans to go to.

Yeah, that won't cause any chaos at all. Sakuras life in Autochtonia will be smooth sailing.

 

[landcollector]

If not for Oblivion though, it might have been smarter to just flee to deep into the wyld like Gaia did.

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Gaia didn't flee, she went out into the Wyld in search of The Shining Answer and still keeps a jouten-form hanging around in Yu-Shan (or did at least).

 

[Idan Dor]

Also, we do have a WoG that we will get into conflict with a divine minister at some point. I figure that was (probably?) not referring to Vision,

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I think we got WoG that he wasn't referring to him a few threads back.
We really need that WoG repository.

Definitely agree with anything you said. Good thing Autochthon is known for his ahead of time planning and not for dropping random people in random places in hope of a success.

 

[Datakim]

Gaia didn't flee, she went out into the Wyld in search of The Shining Answer and still keeps a jouten-form hanging around in Yu-Shan.

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Yeah, I know. The point remains the same. Also, if Gaia had stayed, she would likely have been forced to swear surrender oaths soon enough. She might not have known it directly (unless she did and the "shining answer" was just an excuse?), but abandoning Creation and only leaving a Jouten behind likely saved her (well not in this quest). The Solars in the height of their madness would not have tolerated a free Primordial whose souls they could not summon or bind in their midst.

 

[uju32]

And sure, removing Oblivion entirely would be nice and all, but it already had time to destroy EVERYTHING so its kinda late there. Theres also the minor issue that apparently it might well release the other exaltations based on a WoG I saw a while back.

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Point of order:
Oblivion came into being because of the Neverborn, not Autobot; the fact that it's still there is because Autobot is so close to the brink of falling, which would let it through into the Nowhereverse to devour shit till the end.
Get him out, seal the hole, and Oblivion goes pop.And probably the Wyld regenerates.

As for the other Celestial Exaltations, Great Curse is probably gone with the Neverborn.
They will ultimately break into the Nowhereverse eventually, but WoG is not in this story.
And if Autobot took on any more human refugees from Creation, there is probably Dragonblood genetics in the human pool now.

I do wonder if any other Primordials sealed themselves away in Elsewhere when Oblivion began munching on the Wyld; beyond the scope of this story, probably.

Indeed. I find the fact that wild child Who considers socially awkward hermit Weaver the sister she never had and looks to her for approval (though she'd never say so) absolutely adorable.

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Same here.
It's the little character touches that keep me coming back in between the disasters.

All this might be a bit of concern for Sakura. Look at it from the POV of the divine ministers. Suddenly and with no warning, Autochtons spirits attack a city, kill no one(meaning not gremlins!) and activate an alchemical independently of human intervention (making it clear Auto did it directly) with a completely foreign and alien soul. Said exalt also has a very strange and alien charm completely unlike anything they have ever seen permanently installed, speaks in an ancient dialect old realm that no one in Autochtonia (except the Divine Ministers and Auto himself) really speaks anymore, and tells of a totally alien non-essence universe where Auto plans to go to.
Yeah, that won't cause any chaos at all. Sakuras life in Autochtonia will be smooth sailing.

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Dude, this may not happen all the time, but it's hardly an unknown event to the Divine Ministers.
Let me quote from the book:

Article:

DRONES
As discussed on pages 76-77 of The Manual of Exalted Power—The Alchemicals, drones are a fusion of exmachina and human. Unlike the joining of automata bodies with divine consciousness to create biomechanoids, drone unions are temporary. However, there are similarities in the process.

For the duration of possession, the spirit does not exist as a distinct entity, but rather as a set of powers and irresistible directives conferred upon the host. Drones are holy beings, but their existence as "independent" agents of the gods leaves the Olgotary uncomfortable.

It's hard to argue with a prophet, and so society treats them like an oyster treats an irritant in its body, giving them beautiful temple-quarters and isolating them from the sensitive Populat as much as possible. Fortunately, a good many drones care as little for humanity as the spirits that create them. Instead, they often minister to the tunnel folk, ensuring that faith does not degrade in the absence of proper civilization. In other cases, drones are demiurges called to service in the secret Adamant caste cities and fortified by possession so that they might arrive safely. Wandering drones in the Reaches invariably have a mission, and wise travelers leave them to it.

IDIOSYNCRATIC ENTITIES
Even in a world designed to operate by orderly precepts,some things do not neatly fit into hierarchies of purpose or taxonomy. The Great Maker is first and foremost an inventor, and his hands have given life to untold multitudes of beings from the dawn of time and up until his slumber.

So deeply embedded is this urge that he likely creates as he dreams, stirring fitfully now and again to fashion some new species or progenitor behemoth in hidden laboratories scattered throughout the Reaches.

The Realm of Brass and Shadow is home to many behemoths not beholden to the Divine Ministers and yet protected by the same geas that wards his souls against internecine warfare. Thus, the mightiest of exmachina can only gnash their mechanical teeth in sparking frustration and authorize repairs when such creatures prove troublesome and destructive. Still, the progeny of the Great Maker's hand are not wicked so much as they are devoid of purpose and given to wandering in search of one. In this, their pilgrimages trace the steps of other creations Autochthon made incomplete and forgot.

While some of the unique denizens of Autochthonia possess flesh or an approximation thereof, others are entirely mechanical and some span the two. Not all have their genesis with the Great Maker himself. A few are the unholy offspring of Voidtech genesis wombs, birthed by Apostates as living weapons and sometimes discarded experiments. Though pitiable, their origins make them inherently monstrous and valid prey for destroyers.

Source: Compass of Celestial Directions: Autochtonia pg 110-111

Autobot creates in his sleep, and many of those creations are protected as a matter of course from Divine Minister interference, though not Adamant Caste interference.
The only difference with Sakura is that this was done in a human city, and that she remembers a clear mission.

EDIT
The writeup for drones

Article:

DRONES
A phenomenon disturbing to many Autochthonians, drones are mortals who have voluntarily allowed themselves to become possessed by machine spirits so as to achieve a
closer relationship with the Great Maker. Drones begin life as mortals, usually devoted members of the Sodalities who feel compelled to seek communion with the Machine God.
Drawn to the Reaches of Autochthonia by the siren song of divinity, these mortals willingly merge with machine spirits and become strange hybrids of flesh and machine.
Such merged entities are powerful but sacrifice their free will in the process.

Drones have no officially designated purpose among the Great Maker's religious hierarchy. Rather, those who choose the path of the drone serve as wandering agents of Autochthon's revealed desires. Many enter into the service of the Divine Ministers, performing whatever duties are required. Others travel the highways and byways of the Far Reaches, led only by their intuitive understanding of the Maker's wishes and needs. Even the Divine Ministers themselves often seem uncomfortable in the presence of drones, some of whom seem almost closer to Autochthon than his own component souls.

Most drones serve for the entirety of their mortal lives (and beyond, for drone status is often accompanied by a greatly extended life span), but some fulfill their purpose and, after years or decades, unplug from the Machine God and return to mortal society. Such rare individuals are valued for their knowledge about the mysteries of the Great Maker and the Far Reaches. An unplugged drone loses the innate magical powers associated with drone status but usually retains a keen understanding of thaumaturgy and magitech.

As living extensions of Autochthon's sleeping mind, drones are without free will of their own and are not suitable as players' characters. Drones will never leave Autochthonia for any reason and, if one is compelled to do so, the possessing spirit will flee the mortal body before he can cross the Seal of Eight Divinities. No Exalt of any type can ever become a drone.

Source: Manual of Exalted Power Alchemicals pg 76

 

[Vesperian]

Yeah, I know. The point remains the same. Also, if Gaia had stayed, she would likely have been forced to swear surrender oaths soon enough. She might not have known it directly (unless she did and the "shining answer" was just an excuse?), but abandoning Creation and only leaving a Jouten behind likely saved her (well not in this quest). The Solars in the height of their madness would not have tolerated a free Primordial whose souls they could not summon or bind in their midst.

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Haha. Oh, man. Now I'm imagining a Gaia who got forewarning from her jouten in Yu-Shan and NOPE'd it to Elsewhere like Auto did when she saw Oblivion coming on. Then she follows the Bridge to Nowhere and slides down into Nowhereverse after Autobot.

"Heeey, guys! Don't mind me, just gonna park my comet in that nice, empty asteroid belt for a while. Or maybe next to that sexy moon you've got there. Mmm yeah, you got some nice impact craters there, boo. Lemme tell you, it is NICE to finally be away from crazy mortals with too much power. Wait, are those Exalts?! Theion DAMMIT, Autochthon! This is why you couldn't have nice things!"

 

[Datakim]

Point of order:
Oblivion came into being because of the Neverborn, not Autobot; the fact that it's still there is because Autobot is so close to the brink of falling, which would let it through into the Nowhereverse to devour shit till the end.
Get him out, seal the hole, and Oblivion goes pop.And probably the Wyld regenerates.

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Not in this quest.

All the Neverborn are gone.
All the Yozi are gone.
All of the Fair Folk are gone.
All of Creation and every instance of Elsewhere connected to it is gone.

All that's left is the remaining Celestial Exaltations, and the decreasingly-infinitesimal amounts of Wyld left that are still being devoured by the infinitely-expanding Nothing of Oblivion. This is because the Potential of Autochthon's death and conversion into a Neverborn (the Engine of Extinction) is keeping the proverbial door open; if Autochthon is 'fixed' (read: converted into a different Primordial that doesn't have the potential of dying) or actually dies, then Oblivion will snap closed and cease to be. The remaining Wyld would then have the potential to grow again, and there would be stuff in Somewhere again.

Except for the fact that Autochthon has put a lot of emotional investment into Nowhere now, so it'd be enough of a fetter to keep his Neverborn-self existing until Oblivion consumed the Nowhere multiverse too. Whoops.

So yeah, no need to worry about dealing with the Neverborn or Yozi in this quest. They have been erased from existence. On the matter of Lethe, however, there is something worth considering: what happens if we give a Nowhereverse person a soul... and then they catch a serious case of Untimely Death?

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Oblivion closes when Autochton stops being Autochton and becomes unable to die, and the possibility of the birth of Engine of Extinction ceases. Oblivion will remain until then.

As for the other Celestial Exaltations, Great Curse is probably gone with the Neverborn.

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I could see Abyssals reversing to solars if Oblivion closes (2.5 kinda makes it clear they are champions of Oblivion, not Neverborn.), but 2.5 errata kinda implies that the curse "damaged" the exaltation by attacking the Limit Track through some hidden flaw of invulnerability. Would probably be up to the storyteller whether it would disappear with the neverborn or not. Just because you die does not necessarily instantly undo all the harm you did. (the whole thing was more of a joke anyway. Its not going to come up in this quest).

The only way we'd be able to retrieve the Exaltations floating around the Oblivion-drain is to seal up Oblivion. The only way we can do that is if we heal Autochthon completely - and that is beyond the scope of this quest.

Alchemicals are the focus of this quest. We can safely ignore the others. For now.

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Maybe in a sequel.

And if Autobot took on any more human refugees from Creation, there is probably Dragonblood genetics in the human pool now.

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Point. Wonder if they can exalt with Gaia and everything else utterly erased though? The fact that theres no mention of dragonblood exaltations kinda suggests it depends somehow on Gaia and her souls which powered up the terrestrial exaltations in the first place (so no one exalted in Autochtonia as a dragonbloods because So8D blocked it just like it blocked other exaltations).

There is precedence to that in that no alchemical exalted (drawing power from Auto rather than Gaias dragons) can be created in a world that does not have Auto in it. Likewise, Terrestrial exaltations not being possible in a world without Gaia would explain no dragonbloods in Autochtonia.

If so, that would suggest terrestrial exaltations are now impossible with presumably Gaia destroyed (unless she found her shining answer and escaped or something). Regardless, the bloodline would be very diluted, making it absurdly rare even if possible, and would become moreso assuming interbreeding with nowhereverse humans.

I do wonder if any other Primordials sealed themselves away in Elsewhere when Oblivion began munching on the Wyld; beyond the scope of this story, probably.

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All gone. Auto survived because the people of Autochtonia somehow severed contact with Creation entirely. Everything else in any way linked to Creation&Underworld (Wyld, Malfeas, Yushan, all god sanctums, elsewhere pockets with a link, etc) are gone. Well, theres apparently very very tiny fragment of Wyld still in Oblivion that could regrow if Oblivion closes.

Dude, this may not happen all the time, but it's hardly an unknown event to the Divine Ministers.
Autobot creates in his sleep, and many of those creations are protected as a matter of course from Divine Minister interference, though not Adamant Caste interference.
The only difference with Sakura is that this was done in a human city, and that she remembers a clear mission.

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And that she is an actual Exalt rather than a behemoth or some other abnormality. With a charm that (while modified by Auto), is utterly alien to Autochtonia or Exaltedverse. And all the other abnormalities. The exaltation alone might have been dismissed (though that alone would have been unique, since all your examples were NOT Exalts). Throw in everything else however, and you turn this from something very unique and worthy of investigation, but perhaps still understandable to something staggeringly huge.

The writeup for drones

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Drones are NOT Alchemical Exalted. Behemoths are NOT exalted. Bizarro mutants or biomechanical horror void-creatures (that don't really exist in this quest anyway) are NOT exalted.

 

[uju32]

Oblivion closes when Autochton stops being Autochton and becomes unable to die, and the possibility of the birth of Engine of Extinction ceases. Oblivion will remain until then.

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You are misreading that quote.

All gone.

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Yozi =/=Primordial.
And as evidenced by Autobot's bolthole, not every instance of Elsewhere is linked to Creation.

Not all Primordials were ever linked to Creation;there was Rametheus for one, and the there was that other dude who built a faux-Creation that the UCS was ordered to destroy. Furthermore, Iris was in Creation till late in the process, and Autobot got enough warning to pull him out and sanitize any other links.

Who's to say Gaia, for example, didn't do the same thing with her Yu-Shan jouten after UCS got ganked, and isn't currently in some Elsewhere pocket with her boytoy Luna sipping on mai-tais? Or that other Primordials off in the Wyld who took one look at the Titankiller-infested Creation and noped out didn't do the same thing?

It's only the Yozi who were linked to Creation against their will and beyond their power to undo, after all.

And that she is an actual Exalt rather than a behemoth or some other abnormality.

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Her shard-charm is classified as a behemoth IIRC.
The principle remains the same: an autonomous agent of Autobot not beholden to the local power structures, whether temporal or spiritual.

Drones are NOT Alchemical Exalted. Behemoths are NOT exalted. Bizarro mutants or biomechanical horror void-creatures (that don't really exist in this quest anyway) are NOT exalted.

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And you miss the point.

Autobot creates agents, both autonomous and guided, in his sleep.
He has always done this, and some of them do things and know things that even his most senior component souls are unaware of. The Divine Ministers are not going to consider the appearance of an Essence 3 Exalt with a unique behemoth shard-charm an unprecedented event, not when he apparently creates entire species in his sleep.

What is extraordinary is the scope of her mission.
And that she actually has one.