Alchemical Solutions [Worm/Exalted] Thread 23: We Wonder Where Who Wanders When Watchers Wane

Pre-Vote Running Tally: Who Are Your Top 3 Choices For Orichalcum?


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What specifically did that meditation accomplish? Anima? it seemed really short and not cover everything like it did with Taylor or Sirkalla. With those 2, we got all sorts of imagery about what its meant to do etc.
 
But didn't she gain at least some of it from just thinking about implications of her charms? Like, she gained at least 1 from learning what POS is, at least 1 when asked to undress...this is not how mature person which is sometime to brainwash people into submission (and she will have to at some point) should react.
1)Saki is currently at Clarity 2 according to the frontpage; PermaClarity 1, and 1 Clarity gain this update.
CLARITY:
Temporary: ●●○○○ ○○○○○
Permanent: ●○○○○ ○○○○○​
That is well within normal gain.

2) She is missing her sister, she's having PTSD flashbacks, she was given a Master rating for being too pretty, she activated a power for hacking people's brains, and she just discovered she can grow a tail.
In her place a lot of people would be gibbering; that's the whole issue with triggers in the Wormverse, and why they have so many villains, because people tend to lash out.

She gained 1 Clarity to compensate.
1.
She has not lashed out at anyone, or thrown tantrums, or simply called everything off till she was feeling better.
You underestimate how much control that takes.
I already edited it in there: Taylor is, personality-wise, hilarious outlier; she is more resilient than majority of adults in the setting, case in point: Viator.
I don't consider Taylor as a valid example of teenager willpower, sorry.
Dude, we don't pick normal people for Exaltation.
Autobot wouldn't clear normal people either.

Saki has the same Willpower 10 and Compassion 3 that Taylor has; she(or her sister) continued fighting Bonesaw's controls even when they were turned into pushbutton backpacks. Their resistance was the reason why, when Bonesaw grabbed Bitch's dog by mistake, she couldn't simply come back for Wyld.
The fact that they're averse to conflict should not deceive you.
 
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Has anyone even told him that Saki has a sister yet?
She told him herself.

"We shall reap from them a hundred-fold for each indignity you and your sister suffered. Perhaps, then, we shall see who would dare stand against us."
From 9.1.
I'm not sure why he would be confused.

To defend Saki's clarity situation, if she would have simply gone "Oh, kewl, mind control power that I get to use on people" that would probably mean she shouldn't have one.

However, I still stick to my belief that we shouldn't exalt Vista. This isn't a matter of "stability" but more of a matter of principle, I agree with the youth guard, they are doing important work. The fact that the dark world of Worm forces situations like kids fighting villains is not something we should use as an "excuse" to let kids choose such major decisions. Even with Aisha it's really on the edge for me.
What specifically did that meditation accomplish? Anima? it seemed really short and not cover everything like it did with Taylor or Sirkalla. With those 2, we got all sorts of imagery about what its meant to do etc.
Mostly Sakura.
 
I'm against Exalting Vista. She is too young.
Honestly, I agree she's to yung, but feel the gains are too large to not Exalt her. Her power is excellent, her loyalty and attitude are excellent, and we lose little turning her into an Alchemical.
The issue with Chevalier or Piggot as Jades is that they may lose position or influence they may have now. And, ya know, I haven't seen a suggestion for jade other than Vista that wouldn't make a better Orichalcum.

I agree she should be last, be I feel it's obvious we should Exalt Vista if at all possible.
Right now, we need to either craddle Aisha, or pick and Orichalcum and do it asap. Time is of the essence, we don't have time to feel out more candidates.
So, I agree with the Aisha>Ori>Vista plan. Alternatively Ori>Aisha>Vista. But we need to Exalt someone else NOW. Aisha has said yes, and Brian can be convinced, so let's get on that convincing now. As for Ori, maybe ask the assembly so far on opinions on the options we've been considering?
Saki now knows just how desperate the situation is, hopefully she will be willing to move forward with everything she has with all haste now.
 
That post hasn't been updated since tuesday, I'm not sure how relevant that is. I do generally agree with your point but I highly doubt that she ended the last chapter with Clarity 2.
I don't agree.
I remember Taylor in the full grip of Clarity; everything was efficiency.
Saki is thinking of jokes, and noticing little touches, but not mentioning them because it would interrupt proceedings.
This is the table for Clarity from the front page
EFFECTS OF CLARITY
Rising Clarity erodes an Alchemical's ability to empathize with humans, even as it attunes her to the alien logical processes of her Primordial patron and his component souls. This is a gradual process with several recognizable stages, each with its associated benefits and drawbacks.

0–2: The Alchemical's thought processes and behavior seem as ordinary and human as her traits would indicate.

3–4: The Exalt grows notably colder, though not inhumanly so. She seems faintly impatient with and disdainful toward mortal failings. In general, she has less time for people. All social rolls not pertaining to intimidation suffer a -1 internal penalty, unless the Alchemical is interacting with an Autochthonian spirit, automaton or Alchemical of equal or greater Clarity. In those instances, the Exalt enjoys a +1 situational bonus die. Compassion rolls suffer a -1 internal penalty. The senselessness of broad emotional commitments becomes obvious at this level of Clarity, restricting the Alchemical's available range of Intimacies. She may not retain emotional Intimacies toward broad social groups (as opposed to narrow ones—the Delzahn, children or the inhabitants of a certain city would be purged, while the National Tripartite Assembly of Yugash, the Council of Entities or the character's assembly would not). Intimacies toward groups that directly support her Motivation or are of regular material benefit or hindrance to the Alchemical remain unaffected.

5–7: The Alchemical's movements and speech become clipped and laconic for greater efficiency. She no longer pities mortals for their imperfections, correctly recognizing pity as a waste of cognitive function. In short, she is notably inhuman. Emotional needs are taken into account only for motivational purposes. Mistakes meet with prompt chastisement and punishment if possible, or the prompt filing of disciplinary reports with the defective mortal's superiors otherwise. The thrum and boom of distant gears sometimes impresses itself on the Alchemical in her dreams. All bonuses and penalties from the previous stage double at this level. The Alchemical may no longer sustain emotional Intimacies to broad social groups at all. Such Intimacies may remain only if they are valued for strategic import alone. Antagonistic Intimacies at this level of Clarity may be sustained only if the subject of the Intimacy is a serious, ongoing threat to the Alchemical or her goals. Emotional Intimacies of friendship may be retained only if this friendship is of material benefit to the Alchemical.

8–9: The Exalt has progressed beyond humanity, able to look back on it as a necessary but regrettably imperfect phase of her evolution. When absolutely necessary, she can present a façade of polite courtesy to facilitate expedient interaction with less enlightened minds. Her dreams are full of the crystalline hum of the Machine God's logic processes, and this stream of autonomic data sometimes impresses itself on her waking mind. Internal penalties and bonuses rise to three dice, and the Exalt gains a situational bonus die to all Mental Attribute or Temperance rolls involving memory, analytical deduction or dispassionate self-control. The Alchemical may now retain emotional Intimacies of friendship only if such ties directly support her Motivation. Intimacies based on love disappear at this range of Clarity unless the relationship is of material benefit to the Alchemical.

10: The Alchemical's voice carries occasional undertones of multilayered harmony, indicating her perfect synchronization with the Design of Autochthon. Her eyes are glassy, amorally regarding the world as an array of pure variables swirling around the goals she has set for herself. Humans receive no more consideration or priority in such calculations than any other piece of data. Social penalties and bonuses rise to four dice, while mental bonuses rise to three dice. All Compassion rolls made for the Exalt automatically fail. The Alchemical may sustain no emotional Intimacies at all. Groups, objects, nations and individuals are valued only for their utility in fulfilling the Exalt's Motivation. Grand Autocrat Kerok of Yugash might be retained as an Intimacy, for example, but only because he is an unusually effective leader and policy maker, and extraordinary measures should thus be taken to see that he is preserved.
Compare the milestones to Saki's behavior.
Clarity 2 max, because her behavior was more controlled, but still well within normal human behavior.

If Saki had gone from PermaClarity 1 to Clarity 5 in one session as alleged by @ctulhuslp , you'd have noted her going full robot.
And Taylor would have intervened.
 
If Saki had gone from PermaClarity 1 to Clarity 5 in one session as alleged by @ctulhuslp , you'd have noted her going full robot.
And Taylor would have intervened.

Hm.
She did gain at least some roboticness when noticing POS, looking at her change and scientists being all approving.
She explicitly noted tapping into Clarity when undressed on the roof.
So, okay, I was wrong about 4 most likely (I thought she gained more during the testing itself), it was at least +2.
 
2. If enough people get souls, we could convince them to start worshipping someone such as Taylor or Iris. This means cult, which means more willpower and motes. We could even portray it more as a "business transaction" if necessary. Giving Iris say 2 dot cult would mean he would have a steady flow of 2 more motes per hour to work with. That would presumably speed up basically everything slightly.

Prayer has 4 dots of Resources, with a 5th dot possible. If she wanted to set up a monastery of ensouled persons praying to the Great Maker (keeping in mind that she has just this chapter been called out as causing religious experiences to happen) that can both generate Cult dots (preferably for Iris) and help the community by removing excess labor from the labor pool while giving a modest stimulus to the economy (even monks need to eat and get their plumbing checked out). Buying that fifth dot and organizing a commune of some sort should help there, especially if Iris is involved in making sure the motes respire properly.

I do like the idea of him fixing the area around the Cradle, but I'm not sure how important that is.

Almost certainly. And not just this. For the cost of 2xp, its possible to program new substances to the Hypodermic.

Yes, but that usually presupposes access to a vat and technicians. Here we may need to cannabalize some of our other charms to make that work, and I'm...less than entirely sanguine about that right now.

if Armsmaster for example was chosen as an Ori, his tinkertech library would likely have most bugs and deliberate flaws removed by Auto.

I am interested in Armsmaster as Orichalum, but so far he hasn't had that come to Jesus moment to stop being such a self-absorbed ass. (Love you dearly armsy, but there's a difference between autism and narcissism)

she's also tsundere for competence.

Piggot/Competence OTP
 
However, I still stick to my belief that we shouldn't exalt Vista. This isn't a matter of "stability" but more of a matter of principle, I agree with the youth guard, they are doing important work. The fact that the dark world of Worm forces situations like kids fighting villains is not something we should use as an "excuse" to let kids choose such major decisions. Even with Aisha it's really on the edge for me.
Are you old enough to consent to fight in an Endbringer battle?
Is your consent considered legally valid?
Then you're old enough to make the candidate list.

That's my opinion.
Doesn't mean you're suitable(most adults aren't either) but the idea that you're old enough to die fighting but not old enough to make this sort of choice doesn't really sit well with me.
 
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Oh yeah, speaking of Exalt candidates?
I just ran across a couple things, courtesy of @Ridtom and the Worm Quotes and WoG Repository on SB:
1) Chevalier almost certainly knows Alexandria = Rebecca Costa-Brown
Wildbow said:
Brian said:
Fridge logic moment about Chevalier:
He has the ability to determine on sight whether someone is a parahuman (and based on the glimmers he sees, could reasonably determine who someone is, even when disguised), and was the head of the Philadelphia branch of the Protectorate.
Did he actually never come in contact with Rebecca Costa-Brown, or was he in on the secret of Alexandria being in charge of the PRT?
He was effectively in on quite a few secrets, such as Keene.
Interlude 24
Remember, Alexandria recruited him.

2)CitrineXAccord was a thing in canon, in a twisted way.
<Wildbow> Accord was definitely grooming Citrine. Sorta wish I'd explored that more
<Wildbow> But in writing Worm, I was definitely keeping the "That thing you're planning to do in the future? Do it now. Move the story forward" adage in mind, and it had done well for me up to then
<Wildbow> But it did sorta overly condense things in the final quarter
<Wildbow> The Citrine/Imp vs. Heartbreaker interlude I ended up canceling would've touched far more on that
<Wildbow> But I wasn't comfortable with writing romance/relationship stuff.
<Wildbow> Would've done a lot to round out the Number Man, tho
<Wildbow> Citrine mourning the death of Accord, meets with Number Man to discuss taking over the Ambassadors.
<Wildbow> He fills some of the void that Accord left.
<Ridandria> Awww
<Ridandria> Wait, ewww
<Fossil> as in direction bud
<Fossil> accord was member of cauldron, or a contractor at least
<Ridandria> She wasn't sure she was in love till he threatened her with a plastic protractor
<Wildbow> No, Rid is closer. Up til the plastic protractor bit.
<Wildbow> There's a reason I canceled it though. Wasn't sure I could sell it.
Worm Quotes and WoG Repository | Page 15
So if that is canon for this quest, it would explain why she killed Butcher for him.
So if you're trying to buy loyalty, cue fetch quest without killing her.
 
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Out of all the Ori candidates, Armsmaster is my favourite option. And removing some of his personality flaws (make him a bit more canon Defiant than Armsmaster), could be easily done by our cute lil moe'bot.

Also, having our moe'bot POS Butcher. Even if its only a temporary fix, heroic Butcher would be useful ally. Set her loose on Phily, destroy the criminals.
 
Vista is like 12. :/ I'm all for more adults in the Assembly.

We can exalt non-parahumans, right? Maybe not having Auto convert a planet on top of the exaltation will buy more time / more exalteds?
Vista is BESTEST little sister and she is also HARDCORE! So we'd get an adorably moe badass little sister :D

Yeah but I am not entirely clear how finishing the assembly is gonna help him?
..I mean immediately.

We've been told that while it's perfectly possible to win the quest with just Taylor herself in the Assembly, each additional Assembly member makes it easier for us and increases the chance of us achieving a GOOD END!(tm)

So, basically, that right there is the thing. Back in the day, that was my #1 reason for wanting GU. That has, in fact, as you said, since changed. I still want to get GU in our assembly, but mostly now because, to indulge in my own bit of selfish shiny-chasing, she's basically the biggest shiny on the table, and I'd be genuinely interested in seeing what she will bring to the table. Plus, I just don't like the other candidates as much, honestly? Regardless, the point I was trying to make there is that I've been behind actions which are a step towards actually completing the job Autocthon gave us ever since I joined this quest, and that's not going to change.

Also yet another adorable little sister for our Assembly of AUTHOCTHON'S ANGELS!

Seconded. But other possible Jades can have some conflict of interests with previous lives.



If age didn't matter, Saki would not gain 4 goddamn Clarity from mere power testing.
As things are, for all her super-stats she is waste of resources because mentally she is not ready to use POS or other things. Until she grows up mentally, her more scary charms might as well not exist at all; she is semi-useless.
And this is why I am against Exalting children.

EDIT: inb4 Taylor: canon Taylor had more DETERMINATION that probably Solars can have - she literally resisted being overcome by alien Cthulhu in her brain because she was not done with her mission yet. Don't measure other kids by her resolve.
And Quest!Missy bit her own tongue off to try and commit suicide after she got captured by Jack Slash and turned into a tool for the S9.

"Missy is HARDCORE!" became a quest meme for a reason.

Vista is probably closer in terms of mental resilience to Taylor than Saki, but I agree she's too young.

I generally prefer adults and/or Case 53s.
We've been told to leave all that stuff about "too young" and what not out and pick who we want to see more of in the quest or who we'd think are interesting. I personally want to see more of Taylor's best friend and incredibly badass adorable surrogate little sister.

Are you old enough to consent to fight in an Endbringer battle?
Is your consent considered legally valid?
Then you're old enough to make the candidate list.

That's my opinion.
Doesn't mean you're suitable(most adults aren't either) but the idea that you're old enough to die fighting but not old enough to make this sort of choice doesn't really sit well with me.

*nods* This too, if Vista can fight an Endbringer she should be allowed to Exalt.
 
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I actually really want to bring Piggot on board as our Ori. Sure she doesn't have a power, but we were just shown that Autochthon is under enormous strain so that might not be as big a downside as we might have seen it as previously. This quest's Piggot is a badass hardass who isn't so much biased against parahumans as she is sick and tired of their bullshit; she's also tsundere for competence.

First, powers are pretty important. Not all important, but we have to take down endbringers and Scion, so they do matter. Auto would state it if he could not handle it. As has been pointed out, he is falling back to sleep, not dying. Heck, for all we know, learning all sorts of usefull new information from entity-shards might actually be helping him for all we know.

Also, Piggot has not really been relevant for a long time nor is the relationship between her and the assembly all that close. Frankly, she would not really make much sense at all for Taylor to choose at this point. Maybe if BB was still around and they had interacted a lot, but even the it would be iffy. As it is, she would be a choice from nowhere basically.

I would not be opposed to Piggot being healed and becoming a badass normal with a soul or something, but exalting her? That I have trouble accepting.


If holding the Cradle open is stressing Auto's energy reserves, perhaps he has set up Saki and Sakura to run their own portal? Obviously she hasn't worked out all the controls yet, but beforehand they could transport a whole buliding.

Sudden thought: has Autochthon just created the tools he plans to use to bring his body to the universe of Earth Bet? Obviously not without a lot of intervening prep work, but maybe we have something to build on now.

Auto would have had no way of knowing we would exalt Saki and Sakura. That being said, its possible he did take advantage of the opportunity we gave him to create a connection of sort, that might allow some degree of contact when Auto goes back to sleep. With the charm calibration done, we might want to consider trying to consult Iris and perhaps build somekind of unmanned high-speed probe with somekind of scanners to try and see if we could find another gate on the other side, and make contact.

However I don't realy believe that Sakis charm is capable of actually transporting Auto himself to Nowheveruniverse. We might eventually be able (maybe at higher submodules or possibly with very advanced tinkertech/artifact superspeeders) to send actual people to Autochtonia (and possibly acquire Sakura eventually). However to bring Auto himself almost certainly requires that we follow the original plan. First step of which is converting the entire planet to operate on Essence.


Isn't alexandria heavily injured in this quest?
That gives another reason to throw her in the poertal.

As has been pointed out, we can fix her with traditional methods. Sakis dimension acts as a life support system (Alexandria won't die), while also separating parahumans from their shards (Alexandria won't be near-invulnerable, making surgery and other treatment possible). All we need to do is figure it all out IC, and maybe buy Taylor a dot or two of medicine. Or just have Cauldron find trustworthy doctors who we could bring in to operate on Alexandria in order to gain SPU bonuses. That, combined with charms from Saki and Prayer make it very possible to fix Alexandria without having to exalt her (thankfully).


I'm against Exalting Vista. She is too young.

To be honest, I am not really sure why this matters?

I mean if we were making a decision between exalt or normal life, then I could see the argument. However Vista is not just a parahuman, but one that basically has made it pretty clear she intends to throw herself into S-class battles and serious fights and so on. Her friendship with us would just make that even more certain, as does the drive towards more conflict that her entity-shard will continue to push her towards. So the unfortunate reality is that she won't suddenly start leading safe, happy and risk-free life by not being chosen as an exalt candidate. Whether Vista is chosen or not simply won't make a difference to the level of battles and traumatic experiences and so on she is going to be experiencing.

If anything, exalting her could be viewed as the moral thing from that perspective. Exalts are much tougher than normal humans (or non-brute parahumans). As an exalt, Vista is far more likely to actually survive the life she leads, and grow up and reach adulthood rather than die horribly at the hands of endbringers or some enemy parahuman. Oh, and her shard-charm will probably not be hitting her with a constant conflict-drive, so theres that benefit too.

To but it simply: Vista is not an innocent and normal child. Entities took that away from her a long time before we came along, by sticking a spacewhale shard in her brain.


If age didn't matter, Saki would not gain 4 goddamn Clarity from mere power testing.

Saki gained that mostly due to miscalibrated exaltation and the horrible torture she had underwent. I mean it was explicitly pointed in the prior scenes, that they were horribly tortured and that time did not really pass from their POV. Taylor predicted that Clarity would be a problem due to her own experiences (father trying to kill her, her own miscalibrated exaltation, etc).


I'm still not convinced that Autobot would find him suitable.
Or that he's willing to follow someone else's lead.
The point was made back during the Nine attack that he would accept an Exaltation, but that his current goals are more personal than for the Greater Good.

Frankly, the same applies to most candidates. GU for example is a far worse option than Armsmaster as she is right now. If GU could be "turned" towards Auto and the greater good, why do you think armsmaster cannot? Heck, we know from canon that he has it in him to become a better person with the right push. If we focused on trying to turn him into a better person and more suitable candidate, we could certainly do so.

A normal hero can be focused on personal glory; no problem. An Alchemical should not.
It's not as if we can't already get use out of him now as a Tinker.

Alchemicals can't worship a god planning to blow up the planet either, and its not like we can't make use of GU and her powers as a heroic mortal. Same applies to Accord too. Stick a soul in his forehead, throw Saki at him and so on and he too could become more suitable too. And we could make use of his plans as a heroic mortal aswell.

I don't think we have anyone that would be a perfect candidate right now. No matter what, we would have to try to make the person we choose become more trustworthy and reasonable.

In that sense, Armsmaster might actually be ahead of the others in that we have known him longest and would be better able to try and make him see his personal flaws. Dragon could also be recruited to help there. He also has the advantage of affinity with Auto due to being a tinker, and being a heroic figure we would not have to hide or try to justify having chosen. Whereas with GU we would basically be starting from scratch trying to convert her, and would run into PR issues due to having exalted someone who has murdered lots and lots of people (including heroes).

Armsmaster is far from perfect, but frankly, at this very moment in time, he would be better choice than GU would be. And if GU can be redeemed, Armsmaster can be "redemeed" far more easily.

Finally, I am pretty sure there is atleast one alchemical who does focus and enjoy personal glory in the canon books. Will try to look it up later. Wanting to be recognized/famous/liked is not something that automatically disqualifies you.

EDIT:
Voice of Authority loves being a Champion. Nothing thrills him like brawling with gremlin machine-cannibals in a steam-choked service tunnel, or dueling an Apostate on the lip of an electrified essence vent. Gremlin hunting is both a sacred mission and a delightful recreation for him, and the Sentinel does it extremely well. He stopped keeping track of his kill-count shortly after his first Essence upgrade (not that this has stopped the weekly printing of propaganda posters with the latest count), and now numbers only his fights with Apostates. He has fought menacing rogue Exalts such as Clambering Horror Mechanism and Ultimatum of Shadows to a standstill more than once, and has successfully killed Apostates with the aid of his assembly.

When not defending Gulak from the Apostate menace, Voice enjoys the benefits of his celebrity. Infamous for high-profile seductions of junior Tripartite members and neophyte Alchemicals in scandalous debauches, he takes equal pleasure showing off for state-sponsored parades and festivals. Such occasions stoke his considerable ego, helping him regain his humanity after long solitary missions into the reaches. Popular as he is in Gulak, most of its Champions and senior Tripartite members regard him with a grudging resentment—while he may be effective, his self-assured arrogance and habit of creatively interpreting his orders have made few friends.

Auto does not care if you have an ego or like the fame you get from doing your job, so long as you do your job.

What role is he supposed to play?
What is your vision of his place in our assembly as a Jade?

To be fair, Chevalier could easily find a role, or do the role Vista would. The benefit of alchemicals is that we can choose the charms they gain, so while Chevalier would not have the space-warping charm, he would have some other powerfull charm (with possible unique vision abilities too). And he could certainly fill the role of "beatstick/coordinator". Perhaps better even than Vista could, considering his far greater experience in actually being a leader. Vista is popular mostly because she is Taylors close(st) friend and has been around for a long time. And most of us want to read more of her. She is not however somehow irreplacable and the only one capable of doing the job.


She told him herself.

"We shall reap from them a hundred-fold for each indignity you and your sister suffered. Perhaps, then, we shall see who would dare stand against us."
From 9.1.
I'm not sure why he would be confused.

He probably will be when we tell him that one of the primary persons responsible is now part of the team. Damn I am so not looking forward to that revelation. I just hope Saki won't instantly teleport to her Safe Space and never come out.


That post hasn't been updated since tuesday, I'm not sure how relevant that is. I do generally agree with your point but I highly doubt that she ended the last chapter with Clarity 2.

Actually, I seem to recall that meditation/exaltation calibration does reset Clarity due to "autochton intervention". Did so before with Prayer and Taylor for example.

Ofcourse Saki has undergone a very traumatic experience and should get therapy (and will likely rely on clarity slightly to deal with PTSD, just as Taylor did). And learning about Bonesaw and what will quite possibly be viewed as a betrayal of sorts will inevitably drive her back to higher clarity aswell. However both of those would have happened just as surely with an adult.


I do like the idea of him fixing the area around the Cradle, but I'm not sure how important that is.

There might be some impact if we manage to connect our first Demesne to the cradle before Auto goes back to sleep. However that would require us to create that demesne very near the Cradle. Beyond that, I would expect that the location of the connecting dimensional rift will end up important in some other ways eventually too. Having a HQ around that area might be handy from that perspective.

Yes, but that usually presupposes access to a vat and technicians. Here we may need to cannabalize some of our other charms to make that work, and I'm...less than entirely sanguine about that right now.

No, I don't think so. Saki already has the charm that produces the substances from essence. Creating new drugs would be more like uploading a new programs to a pre-existing computer, rather than building a new physical computer. We don't need to cannibalize anything. Just come up with something Gromweld accepts (or use one of the recipes from the art of alchemy) and pay 2xp. Obviously this would only apply to Saki, since she is the only one with the charm.

I am interested in Armsmaster as Orichalum, but so far he hasn't had that come to Jesus moment to stop being such a self-absorbed ass. (Love you dearly armsy, but there's a difference between autism and narcissism)

True. However if we chose to, we could probably help him reach that "jesus" moment by focusing on arranging it. Certainly it would probably be easier than converting GU from Scion worship to Auto and from being a fairy into being a robot. Or becoming someonw willing to work with people and other parahumans/PRT rather than murdering them in large quantities. Or fixing all of Accords problems. All of our ori candidates need work.

The trouble is that theres so very little agreement on who should become Ori, so we are basically not really working or preparing anyone for the job. If we had decided a year ago IRL that Armsmaster would absolutely be our candidate, we could likely have arranged him to become more like canon!Defiant by now. Saki ofcourse would make it even easier, if we chose that. For example, getting him together with Dragon would likely have helped, but when the vote for that came a while back, people were not really interested in that option (even if it that would quite probably have made him reflect on himself).
 
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First, powers are pretty important. Not all important, but we have to take down endbringers and Scion, so they do matter. Auto would state it if he could not handle it. As has been pointed out, he is falling back to sleep, not dying. Heck, for all we know, learning all sorts of usefull new information from entity-shards might actually be helping him for all we know.

Also, Piggot has not really been relevant for a long time nor is the relationship between her and the assembly all that close. Frankly, she would not really make much sense at all for Taylor to choose at this point. Maybe if BB was still around and they had interacted a lot, but even the it would be iffy. As it is, she would be a choice from nowhere basically.

I would not be opposed to Piggot being healed and becoming a badass normal with a soul or something, but exalting her? That I have trouble accepting.




Auto would have had no way of knowing we would exalt Saki and Sakura. That being said, its possible he did take advantage of the opportunity we gave him to create a connection of sort, that might allow some degree of contact when Auto goes back to sleep. With the charm calibration done, we might want to consider trying to consult Iris and perhaps build somekind of unmanned high-speed probe with somekind of scanners to try and see if we could find another gate on the other side, and make contact.

However I don't realy believe that Sakis charm is capable of actually transporting Auto himself to Nowheveruniverse. We might eventually be able (maybe at higher submodules or possibly with very advanced tinkertech/artifact superspeeders) to send actual people to Autochtonia (and possibly acquire Sakura eventually). However to bring Auto himself almost certainly requires that we follow the original plan. First step of which is converting the entire planet to operate on Essence.




As has been pointed out, we can fix her with traditional methods. Sakis dimension acts as a life support system (Alexandria won't die), while also separating parahumans from their shards (Alexandria won't be near-invulnerable, making surgery and other treatment possible). All we need to do is figure it all out IC, and maybe buy Taylor a dot or two of medicine. Or just have Cauldron find trustworthy doctors who we could bring in to operate on Alexandria in order to gain SPU bonuses. That, combined with charms from Saki and Prayer make it very possible to fix Alexandria without having to exalt her (thankfully).




To be honest, I am not really sure why this matters?

I mean if we were making a decision between exalt or normal life, then I could see the argument. However Vista is not just a parahuman, but one that basically has made it pretty clear she intends to throw herself into S-class battles and serious fights and so on. Her friendship with us would just make that even more certain, as does the drive towards more conflict that her entity-shard will continue to push her towards. So the unfortunate reality is that she won't suddenly start leading safe, happy and risk-free life by not being chosen as an exalt candidate. Whether Vista is chosen or not simply won't make a difference to the level of battles and traumatic experiences and so on she is going to be experiencing.

If anything, exalting her could be viewed as the moral thing from that perspective. Exalts are much tougher than normal humans (or non-brute parahumans). As an exalt, Vista is far more likely to actually survive the life she leads, and grow up and reach adulthood rather than die horribly at the hands of endbringers or some enemy parahuman. Oh, and her shard-charm will probably not be hitting her with a constant conflict-drive, so theres that benefit too.

To but it simply: Vista is not an innocent and normal child. Entities took that away from her a long time before we came along, by sticking a spacewhale shard in her brain.




Saki gained that mostly due to miscalibrated exaltation and the horrible torture she had underwent. I mean it was explicitly pointed in the prior scenes, that they were horribly tortured and that time did not really pass from their POV. Taylor predicted that Clarity would be a problem due to her own experiences (father trying to kill her, her own miscalibrated exaltation, etc).




Frankly, the same applies to most candidates. GU for example is a far worse option than Armsmaster as she is right now. If GU could be "turned" towards Auto and the greater good, why do you think armsmaster cannot? Heck, we know from canon that he has it in him to become a better person with the right push. If we focused on trying to turn him into a better person and more suitable candidate, we could certainly do so.



Alchemicals can't worship a god planning to blow up the planet either, and its not like we can't make use of GU and her powers as a heroic mortal. Same applies to Accord too. Stick a soul in his forehead, throw Saki at him and so on and he too could become more suitable too. And we could make use of his plans as a heroic mortal aswell.

I don't think we have anyone that would be a perfect candidate right now. No matter what, we would have to try to make the person we choose become more trustworthy and reasonable.

In that sense, Armsmaster might actually be ahead of the others in that we have known him longest and would be better able to try and make him see his personal flaws. Dragon could also be recruited to help there. He also has the advantage of affinity with Auto due to being a tinker, and being a heroic figure we would not have to hide or try to justify having chosen. Whereas with GU we would basically be starting from scratch trying to convert her, and would run into PR issues due to having exalted someone who has murdered lots and lots of people (including heroes).

Armsmaster is far from perfect, but frankly, at this very moment in time, he would be better choice than GU would be. And if GU can be redeemed, Armsmaster can be "redemeed" far more easily.

Finally, I am pretty sure there is atleast one alchemical who does focus and enjoy personal glory in the canon books. Will try to look it up later. Wanting to be recognized/famous/liked is not something that automatically disqualifies you.

EDIT:


Auto does not care if you have an ego or like the fame you get from doing your job, so long as you do your job.



To be fair, Chevalier could easily find a role, or do the role Vista would. The benefit of alchemicals is that we can choose the charms they gain, so while Chevalier would not have the space-warping charm, he would have some other powerfull charm (with possible unique vision abilities too). And he could certainly fill the role of "beatstick/coordinator". Perhaps better even than Vista could, considering his far greater experience in actually being a leader. Vista is popular mostly because she is Taylors close(st) friend and has been around for a long time. And most of us want to read more of her. She is not however somehow irreplacable and the only one capable of doing the job.




He probably will be when we tell him that one of the primary persons responsible is now part of the team. Damn I am so not looking forward to that revelation. I just hope Saki won't instantly teleport to her Safe Space and never come out.




Actually, I seem to recall that meditation/exaltation calibration does reset Clarity due to "autochton intervention". Did so before with Prayer and Taylor for example.

Ofcourse Saki has undergone a very traumatic experience and should get therapy (and will likely rely on clarity slightly to deal with PTSD, just as Taylor did). And learning about Bonesaw and what will quite possibly be viewed as a betrayal of sorts will inevitably drive her back to higher clarity aswell. However both of those would have happened just as surely with an adult.




There might be some impact if we manage to connect our first Demesne to the cradle before Auto goes back to sleep. However that would require us to create that demesne very near the Cradle. Beyond that, I would expect that the location of the connecting dimensional rift will end up important in some other ways eventually too. Having a HQ around that area might be handy from that perspective.



No, I don't think so. Saki already has the charm that produces the substances from essence. Creating new drugs would be more like uploading a new programs to a pre-existing computer, rather than building a new physical computer. We don't need to cannibalize anything. Just come up with something Gromweld accepts (or use one of the recipes from the art of alchemy) and pay 2xp. Obviously this would only apply to Saki, since she is the only one with the charm.



True. However if we chose to, we could probably help him reach that "jesus" moment by focusing on arranging it. Certainly it would probably be easier than converting GU from Scion worship to Auto and from being a fairy into being a robot. Or becoming someonw willing to work with people and other parahumans/PRT rather than murdering them in large quantities. Or fixing all of Accords problems. All of our ori candidates need work.

The trouble is that theres so very little agreement on who should become Ori, so we are basically not really working or preparing anyone for the job. If we had decided a year ago IRL that Armsmaster would absolutely be our candidate, we could likely have arranged him to become more like canon!Defiant by now. Saki ofcourse would make it even easier, if we chose that. For example, getting him together with Dragon would likely have helped, but when the vote for that came a while back, people were not really interested in that option (even if it that would quite probably have made him reflect on himself).

Yeah but IMO GU is more interesting then Armsy due to the whole "still mentally a kid even with all that power and immortality" and "My daddy is the bestest and most awesome and I'm gonna help him do his job when I grow up" characteristics she has which would be really amusing if we convert her to Autocthon instead. Plus I want that all female "Autocthon's Angels" themed assembly (with Iris as Bosley). :D
 
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Yeah but IMO GU is more interesting then Armsy due to the whole "still mentally a kid even with all that power and immortality" and "My daddy is the bestest and most awesome and I'm gonna help him do his job when I grow up" characteristics she has which would be really amusing if we convert her to Autocthon instead. Plus I want that all female "Autocthon's Angels" themed assembly (with Iris as Bosley). :D
Husk-sculpting apparatus:V
 
My reason for wanting Armsy is primarily because I really want to see what happens to his tinker-shard if turned into a charm. All of our other Assmebly members have powers that are activated, and have some sort of immediate effect when used, but a tinker-shard is basically a library of information that contains first concept designs, not something that one activates. And while it is blackboxed to the host, the information for the underlying tech is held in the shard. I really want to see what Auto-kun will do with a whole new tech base to play around with.
 
What role is he supposed to play?
What is your vision of his place in our assembly as a Jade?
Same as if we were to Exalt him Orichalcum: leader/guy who hits things really hard with a giant sword.

There's a ton of overlap between caste concepts, and for a guy like Chevalier who fits multiple castes, it doesn't change much which Caste we put him as, other than it frees up the Oricalchum spot for someone (possibly Armsmaster, possibly Piggot, possibly others) who only fits Ori.

Plus, I'm in favor of fluid Caste identity.

Taylor is Soulsteel crisis manager/general/craftsperson.
The Twins are Starmetal moebots.
Aisha is Moonsilver infiltrator/intelligence specialist.
Prayer is Adamant offensive beatstick/monster cape liaison.
Vista is Jade defensive beatstick/coordinator.
GU is Orichalcum sorcerer/cleric.
Piggot is Orichalcum special op soldier/politician.
Miss Militia is Orichalcum/Jade adviser/teacher/cleric.
Accord is Orichalcum planner/craftsperson.

A lot of those are stretches and overly niche.

So what role is Chevy supposed to play as a Jade in our assembly? That isn't already covered by someone else?
Make your case.

But really I reject your entire framework. We aren't designing a DnD or WoW party. Especially since Exalted Mechanics don't really encourage it. Why not have two or even three beatsticks in the Circle? Especially given a lot of the threats we'd have to face. Chevalier is good at a lot of things, like leadership and coordination as well as combat. He's also an excellent public face of a different type than Saki. Instead of superhumanly beautiful and charismatic god/goddess, he's a well respected, high ranking, member of the Protectorate. Sure that's a niche thing, but so is pretty much every other role you've listed.

Note also that you are proposing him against the second-most voted Alchemical candidate in the history of this quest; it was her and Dragon.
And it was Taylor's IC assessment that Vista was perfect except for maybe age.

So? It's been two years since that vote. A lot of new people have joined the quest, and a lot of old people have dropped out. People can also change their minds. I used to favor Vista for Jade, but I've change my mind.

And IC, other stuff's come up. Vista recovering from trauma, and been pretty much declared off limits by her foster family and the Youth Guard. We can get around it, but do we have the time? I'm under the impression that we need to get the next candidate to the Cradle, like right now.

It's not as if we can't already get use out of him now as a Tinker.

But not an Exalted Craftsman/Tinker. He might lose the ability to benefiting from multithreading, but he gains the ability to work with Magical Materials.

We've been told to leave all that stuff about "too young" and what not out and pick who we want to see more of in the quest or who we'd think are interesting. I personally want to see more of Taylor's best friend and incredibly badass adorable surrogate little sister.
Yet, we still have to deal with interference from the Youth Guard and foster parents. So IC, at least, it is a consideration.
 
So? It's been two years since that vote. A lot of new people have joined the quest, and a lot of old people have dropped out. People can also change their minds. I used to favor Vista for Jade, but I've change my mind.
That's fine. I feel, judging by the responses, that there are still quite a few present that desire Missy to be our Jade.

He might lose the ability to benefiting from multithreading, but he gains the ability to work with Magical Materials.
Irrevelant for the foreseeable future, imo, since we don't have really anything in the way of the Magical Materials to use.
 
Frankly, the same applies to most candidates. GU for example is a far worse option than Armsmaster as she is right now.
GU is someone we have to deal with anyway.
And she's frankly a much bigger payoff. She brings vastly different capabilities to the Assembly.

Of course, we've yet to meet her anyway, so we know dickall about her besides her racking up a reputation and death count.
Might well be she'll leave a bad impression
*shrug*
Alchemicals can't worship a god planning to blow up the planet either, and its not like we can't make use of GU and her powers as a heroic mortal.
You do realize that GU doesn't worship Scion, right?
The closest her therapist came was considering him a parent.

Finally, I am pretty sure there is atleast one alchemical who does focus and enjoy personal glory in the canon books. Will try to look it up later. Wanting to be recognized/famous/liked is not something that automatically disqualifies you.
I did not say it does?
Vista for example wants respect, but she doesn't prioritize it over everything else.
Getting people killed for personal glory? That would disqualify you.

Voice of Authority loves being a Champion.
In addition to his duties.
VoA is not a team player, but his job does not require him to be; he generally only risks himself on his stunts.
And despite that, he still manages to be known for creating resentment behind him.

That kinda trouble we don't need in-house.
Not when we require much greater intra-Assembly cooperation, and we have razor-thin margins.
Voice of Authority was the worst example you could have picked as an argument.

Canon Armsmaster's problem was that he saw personal glory as a necessary component of success, not a side benefit.
He was willing to get people killed in order to go for personal glory, and set up a fucking duel with an EB in the middle of a drowning city.
In the light of that history, this Colin has so far failed to convince me that he's trustworthy with this kind of power that Alchemicals wield.

And I'm speaking as someone who was considering him for the role.
 
Oh yeah, speaking of Exalt candidates?
I just ran across a couple things, courtesy of Ridtom and the Worm Quotes and WoG Repository on SB:
1) Chevalier almost certainly knows Alexandria = Rebecca Costa-Brown

Yeah, he can see parahumans. I admit it might be interesting what kind of vision he would get if his shard underwent conversion. But then lots of Zion shards would probably produce interesting results.

2)CitrineXAccord was a thing in canon, in a twisted way.
So if that is canon for this quest, it would explain why she killed Butcher for him.
So if you're trying to buy loyalty, cue fetch quest without killing her.

Eh, I was kinda thinking we should atleast try and do this regardless of Accord. If this gets him to be more loyal, huzzah, but there would potentially be inherent rewards in this no matter what.

First, theres ensouling. Its likely that having Exalted Willpower might allow Citrine to resist the Butcher shards influence (it probably counts as somekind of UMI). Furthermore, since she is Butcher, PRT probably won't have any major objections to soul-experiment (if it works and helps neutralise Butcher? Great! If not, well, we did it to Butcher so its not like we made things worse). Saki can also presumably remove/reset any influence they have already managed to implant into her and boost willpower/maybe give a dot of conviction (though I figure Citrine is probably pretty high/max already), and when it comes to using POS, fixing the mental illness of "Butcherism" is pretty much as black&white as you can get.

Butcher has been a nasty threat that has been problematic to really deal with. Even sending her to birdcage might have problems (what if she kills herself and infects the one responsible for her imprisonment and death, Dragon?).

Actually turning Citrine!Butcher to our side and giving her the ability to resist the influence of the previous Butchers via a soul and exalted Willpower would probably earn us quite a bit of reputation, and also serve as solid proof to everyone that having a soul equals being able to resist masters and master-like influences. Even with the pain, this could serve as a way for us to convince others to volunteer to having a soul, since it would be solid and public proof that having a soul actually allows one to resist even constant Butcher influence.

As for Citrine, hopefully we would eventually be able to create a shard submodule for POS and remove the previous Butchers entirely, but until then we could keep Citrine around and help with POS if the previous Butchers manage to start gaining ground. Optical shroud and Sakis dimension would also allow her periods of rest if that became necessary.

This would get us a powerfull ally, that would have every reason to be very thankfull and loyal to us. If it helps Accord to become thankfull and more loyal too? All the better.


And IC, other stuff's come up. Vista recovering from trauma, and been pretty much declared off limits by her foster family and the Youth Guard. We can get around it, but do we have the time? I'm under the impression that we need to get the next candidate to the Cradle, like right now.

Would Chevalier be willing though, even if we wanted him to be chosen?

But not an Exalted Craftsman/Tinker. He might lose the ability to benefiting from multithreading, but he gains the ability to work with Magical Materials.

Why would he lose that? Heck, would make sense for him to get it as a personal charm (Gromweld would probably choose it by default if he was chosen), allowing him to use it on himself.


Getting people killed for personal glory? That would disqualify you.

Armsmaster has not sunk to that level in this quest, and we could easily make sure he never does.
 
Sure but he'd still be naturally a guy and therefore it wouldn't fully count (also Ciara is the most magical girl-esque candidate and I think that would be hilarious to see) :p
it would totally count if Armsmistress came out of the cradle that way due to miscommunication/charm misalignment.

GU is someone we have to deal with anyway.
And she's frankly a much bigger payoff. She brings vastly different capabilities to the Assembly.
I believe that she'd be a great asset as a non-exalt because of how many shards she's collected over her active career that would be lost upon Exaltation(eg. can Grayboy undo his bubbles? if so the so can Ciara but not if we exalt her)
 
Same as if we were to Exalt him Orichalcum: leader/guy who hits things really hard with a giant sword.
In other words, stuff that's already covered by Weaver and Prayer.
A lot of those are stretches and overly niche.
Not at all.
I'm following the rough template the GM gave us almost two years ago, back in Thread 17.
But really I reject your entire framework. We aren't designing a DnD or WoW party. Especially since Exalted Mechanics don't really encourage it. Why not have two or even three beatsticks in the Circle? Especially given a lot of the threats we'd have to face. Chevalier is good at a lot of things, like leadership and coordination as well as combat. He's also an excellent public face of a different type than Saki. Instead of superhumanly beautiful and charismatic god/goddess, he's a well respected, high ranking, member of the Protectorate. Sure that's a niche thing, but so is pretty much every other role you've listed.
Let me quote the GM at you:
It's worth taking the time to consider/re-evaluate what roles we want, and whom would fill those. As Alchemicals are bound by their Internal Essence and Charm Slot limits, specialization is the name of the game. Taylor was an oddball, due to her initial solitary role, but the rest will be more like Marrow - very focused with one specific role (Marrow's role being, "HIT IT VERY HARD").

Now, that's not to say that we can't double-up on certain roles! In fact, there are valid reasons to maybe have a second dedicated combat-wombat on the team for purposes of Endbringer Bullshit. As I've said before, we can 'win' this quest with our Assembly as-is, so this comes down to how we'd like to approach the rest of the story.

Various Specialization Roles:
- Stealth/Infiltration
- Wetworks/Interrogation
- Public Relations
- Long-Term Planning/Intelligence Gathering
- Crafting
- Sorcery
- Ranged Combat
- Melee Combat (Dex/Striker)
- Melee Combat (Strength/Tank)

Note that most of these specializations don't take up the entire Internal Essence pool, which either leaves room for dipping into a second specialization, or some 'shiny'/personalization charms. Still, it's worth looking at our list of candidates and considering what we'd actually want them to do in our Assembly - just because we like a character doesn't mean we need to Exalt them to keep them by our side and see more of them.

As a result, it might be a good idea to build a FULL team list of specializations, as that would allow us to tailor/speed-up our search for Exaltation Candidates.

That role is covered by Taylor, so I omitted it since I figured we might not want to double-up on that role (and weaken Taylor's utility).

Regardless, I recommend building the TEAM first, not just pointing out what people would be (since there's wiggle room with people's specialities). Assume ONE speciality per person, as secondary specialities are up to Autochthon. Example:

Team Fuck You Behemoth:
- EOA (Strategic/Tactical)
- FPoP (STR Melee Combat)
- STR Melee Combat
- DEX Melee Combat
- Ranged Combat
- Strategic/Tactical

Team Balanced:
- EOA (Strategic/Tactical)
- FPoP (STR Melee Combat)
- Stealth/Infiltration
- Public Relations
- Long-Term Planning/Intelligence Gathering
- Sorcery

Team Shady:
- EOA (Strategic/Tactical)
- FPoP (STR Melee Combat)
- Stealth/Infiltration
- Wetworks/Interrogation
- Public Relations
- Long-Term Planning/Intelligence Gathering

And so on and so forth. What kind of TEAM are we looking to build?

In other news, we're fighting the Siberian and Bonesaw right now and rolls are... unfriendly.
We aren't just throwing people together, we're building a team of complementary talents.
So again, I will urge you to think long and hard about what your choices are supposed to play in the Assembly.
 
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