Alchemical Solutions [Worm/Exalted] Thread 23: We Wonder Where Who Wanders When Watchers Wane

Pre-Vote Running Tally: Who Are Your Top 3 Choices For Orichalcum?


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@Gromweld
For your files: Canon!Imp is a Stranger 5, Canary is a Master 8
Article:
"Canary is a rogue," Defiant said. "And a onetime inmate of the Birdcage. She never wore a costume."

Narwhal glanced at Defiant. "Do you know them, then?"

He nodded. "Well enough. There's no risk in letting them near Saint. Imp is a stranger-five, Canary is a master eight, but I would be very, very surprised if she had taken control of anyone here for the purposes of misleading us or breaking Saint out."
 
charm-ified relocation power (teleportationnever really felt right, even before),
teleportation never
the older latin man muses,
latino
The older latin man snorts and rolls his eyes,
latino
Grayboy doesn't make bubbles, he just locks a specific person/thing in a time-loop that his shard secretly maintains (even after he's dead). ISF wouldn't help with that, but Optical Shroud's Hidden Assembly Conclave might... but the shard might instead just restart the loop when the victim comes out of stealth. Something to find out in-story!
-Still worth doing. Shroud the poor bastard, perform GLORIOUS COMMUNIST ROBOT BULLSHIT!! surgery, they get stuck again without the whole 'eternal suffering' bit. Unless it picks up from a save state and the Shroud doesn't reset that state. Then it would just suck.
So, three possible outcomes:
Excellent -everyone loves us
Not bad, but not good -everyone likes us a lot
Bad -we get good publicity for trying.
Seems like something worth trying.-
 
-Still worth doing. Shroud the poor bastard, perform GLORIOUS COMMUNIST ROBOT BULLSHIT!! surgery, they get stuck again without the whole 'eternal suffering' bit. Unless it picks up from a save state and the Shroud doesn't reset that state. Then it would just suck.
Shroud Saki so the shard can't see her, have her vorp the guy into her portal and freeze him in her sanctum.
Pop him out in a day, and hope the shard has stopped scanning for him.
 
Iris isn't considered a person,
Let's never let him find this out. Because I do not want to see that tantrum.

I'm honestly ambivalent about our Ori choice, but I am set for the other two on Aisha and Vista.
I would think Gu would be the most...interesting, but Armsmaster or MM would be easiest. I guess we need to choose what matters most when choosing and Ori, than go from there. Not that there will ever be a consensus on that, but approaching the problem pelmel like we have is dumb and obviously unproductive.
 
Let's never let him find this out. Because I do not want to see that tantrum.

I'm honestly ambivalent about our Ori choice, but I am set for the other two on Aisha and Vista.
I would think Gu would be the most...interesting, but Armsmaster or MM would be easiest. I guess we need to choose what matters most when choosing and Ori, than go from there. Not that there will ever be a consensus on that, but approaching the problem pelmel like we have is dumb and obviously unproductive.
there's always the option of asking for the Magical materials rather than exalting an Ori, after all an Alchemical represents a commitment of Resources 5 worth of Magical materials :V
 
How durable is the Butcher? I recall at least one instance of Brute powers, but there's so many in there it's hard to keep track.

Well, the trouble here is actually getting people to want souls to begin with.

We could ask/require/cash in a Cauldron favor to get Alexandria to wear the soulgem. Legend was good for the LGBT community, having another member of the Triumverate support a social cause shouldn't hurt. Meanwhile, to the PRT I'm in favor of getting Accord a soulgem and implanting one on the Butcher as a means to mitigate their shard influences. If we can get some PRT troopers in Philadelphia to volunteer as test subjects (they're among those most familiar with the primary actors involved, and having Master-resistant troops seems like a net boon for the PRT. Plus Agenda Recalibration Protocols in the fashion industry to cause soulgems to be in the next season (Taylor's was public in her photo shoots, and if Glen Chambers was willing to murder interns to get her on a magazine I imagine he'd massacre entire branch offices to get a Appearance 7 Alchemical on magazines).

we could paint it less as an actual cult-style cult, and more as a business transaction (they do the rituals of worship and focus on the target, we pay them money or offer something else in return).

Cult-style cult; a thing shaped like itself. (Clearly what we need to do is get Iris a neon green mohawk and an electric guitar and have him become a techno sensation sweeping the nation, that'll get cult dots)

I like the monastery idea, though we don't necessarily need to sell it as one. Part of the problem with Camden is that it has high unemployment (obviously), which is a result of shipyards going quiet. When there's too many people looking for work and not enough jobs, that causes the price of labor to become devalued and force down wages, causing knock-on effects of people not being able to cover expenses they used to (rent, car payments, medical bills, etc) that causes other businesses to have cashflow problems, forcing them to either take out loans or cut jobs etc in a downward spiral. The usual remedy for this is to create more jobs (creating more demand for labor) but while more paying jobs are nice, another solution is to reduce the number of job-seekers (reducing the supply of labor). The communes, monasteries, whatever they get called would have basic utilities (rent, water, electricity, maybe medical?) paid for by...hmm, either royalties from the nanite project, some sort of fiscal chicanery using Prayer's nest egg as seed money (egg money?), generous donations from anonymous cooking pot organizations or products the residents produce themselves. Music and art come to mind as comparatively low-budget options, but there's a lot to be said for a hacker commune I suppose. Praise the machine god!

That should serve as both a business incubator (we cover the high-skill, high-paying aspects of job creation like accounting, HR and IT for no or reduced cost (Enduring Order Administrator is almost to Bureaucracy 4, which makes her a world-class economist even before adding in her superhuman intelligence, while Accord is on record as making sure his corner of Boston's metaphorical trains ran on time; I suspect they'd be able to be at least somewhat effective in this) allowing legitimate business start-ups more wiggle room to try and fail before they try and succeed, making Camden a friendlier place for businesses. Furthermore, as more people become employed, blue collar crime will go down as people who are only part-time crooks to make ends meet can make ends meet without risking their life or freedom breaking the law, tax revenue from increased market activity allows for more infrastructure and police investment, etc) and provides a structured environment that can handle both harm reduction ("I want to quit heroin, but it's just so hard. I heard you guys can help with that.") and cult dots for Iris. This kind of project should also go a long way towards her motivation of "Fix Philadelphia", and thus benefit from the usual pro-Motivation bonuses.

It seems most likely that the personalities are stored in the shard itself, rather than the current Butcher. Maybe its just somekind of one-time upload, but it would not surprise me if they are stored in the shard and the only way to remove them would be to develop a shard POS submodule.

...and now I'm considering Citrine as a candidate for Orichalum.

Earth-Bet is not made of motes and humans weren't designed to be weak little prayer batteries.

The soulgem should make them weak little prayer batteries and we're working on the motes problem.

"Can you get me Cult 5? No? Not worth my time, then."

Doesn't ask for much, does he?

Cult 5 said:
••••• Many people throughout one of the four quarters of Creation worship you. There, you are the deity of some major sphere of life such as hunting, war or procreation. The people hold seasonal festivals in your honor, children bear your name, and many claim that their actions are done to aid you and your cult. Every six hours, you gain a point of temporary Willpower, and you regain six motes per hour from the constant prayers. The entire Realm will soon mobilize against you, and even the gods grow jealous of your power.

So, a few options for getting this;
-talk to Cauldron and have one of their client worlds seeded with ensouled persons kidnapped and get the magical forehead jewelry hammered in before being tossed in a cell somewhere and making receiving basic necessities like food or plumbing contingent upon performing the appropriate rituals. Pros: Simple, timely, effective. Can have most of the process automated or delegated. Cons: May involve trace amounts of human rights abuses, requires access to an area saturated with Essence
-Above monastery plan. Pros: fulfills unrelated objectives, builds goodwill, gradual increase in cult numbers. Cons: Slow to take effect, inefficient, high degree of Alchemical involvement in most steps of the program
-Raider-cult style semi-regular human sacrifice. Demons in creation benefit from worship just like any other spirit, but they have to play fast and loose with how their cults are managed. Human sacrifice is common because every human life counts as a Resource 5 sacrifice and frees up a lot of motes that go to the patron. (The section that talks about this says something to the effect of how laying flowers at a shrine every day for a season doesn't generate as big a cult as a human sacrifice on the new moon) Pros: lot of bang for your buck, easy to do with limited resources, proven efficacy under motonic physics. Cons: Not sure how effective it would be under Nowhere-verse converts, cult size does not grow very fast at all, distressing shortage of step pyramids.

To get Cult 5 using the third option would probably look a fair bit like a slightly more populous Aztec empire pre-Cortez. The monastery plan has the benefit of providing an obvious social good and takes advantage of a resource already abundant in Earth-Bet; unemployed and underemployed humans (somewhat) conditioned to do simple, rote activities without adequate explanation and without obvious, immediate benefit or purpose.

Okay, correct me if I'm wrong but I recall reading somewhere in the past threads, that converting capes to alchemicals to takes a lot more out of Autochthon than most exaltations, taking something on the order of months off his life expectancy. Was that addressed somewhere later where I didn't see it?

Because if not, I'd really want to look into a way to counteract or compensate for that damage before exalting more capes.

As I understand it, what Autochthon expends by the added effort, he gains back in some fashion learning or being inspired by the shard he vacuums up; from Marrow his quarantine of gremlin zones became more effective (probably) while with Taylor Hebert it was more likely something to the effect of greater control and synergy of his various subsystems.
 
Just finished reading through this quest, thank you for putting together such a great story!

@Gromweld
Small discrepancy, but back in 7.6 you write:

The attendant chatters on a bit about some of the sights in New York that are visible on the ride from John F. Kennedy airport, especially the Endbringer Memorial monolith that was erected in place of the destroyed Statue of Liberty.

While in 9.3 you write:
It offers an excellent view of Manhattan and Central Park from its location on Fifth Avenue and East 56th Street, and it's even possible to see the Statue of Liberty from the landing pad on its top.

As for the next member of the Assembly, I don't think there is a specific WoG on this, but will we get Sakura back at the end of another week, or is she stuck on Autochthonia for the foreseeable future? Though there's still ~3 months before Plot strikes, we should figure out how long the Cradle will be held up due to Sakura's situation.

I think the next slot that should be filled is the Jade caste, as there seem to be plenty of candidates immediately available. Chevalier, Vista, Armsmaster, Miss Militia, Piggot. While the vote was for:

[X] Get In Loser, We're Going God-Killing: Against three concurrent apocalypses, we need all the power we can get... and Cauldron's list is where we can get it.

back in 8.6, it doesn't seem appropriate to find the Assembly's "hero of the people" in Cauldron's list.

Chevalier probably fits the Jade caste the best out of any choice in terms of personality/character. He's the guy that everyone turned to when Legend was forced to retire in disgrace in canon; if Hero hadn't taken it first, Chev could have taken the name Hero no problem. No one has bad shit to say about this guy. It'd be a PR coup if he joined the Assembly, and as a side benefit it may result in Armsmaster taking command of the Philly Protectorate branch, which would score Taylor major points with Armsy. On the other hand, Chev may best help as an ally rather than as an Exalted. He's already Taylor's boss and he likes and supports her efforts (even if he's probably still grinding his teeth over the whole Bonesaw thing). He's also really powerful as is, what with being able to melee Endbringers. If Taylor gets her hands on any magical materials, Chev might be able to incorporate them into his gear and further up his powerlevels. Point is, Exalting anyone greatly empowers them; even a relatively weak individual is granted a huge boost. I'd argue that as Chevalier is already a very powerful character, we'd be better served Exalting someone weaker and keeping Chev as an ally, giving us a greater net gain in power for the coming battles. Another, lesser concern is how Iris was baffled by Chev's reality layering powers. Autocthon will likely find a way to convert Chev's shard into something equivalently useful, but it could be more of a side-grade, and the resulting power may not be as suitable for Chev's role as a front line fighter.

Vista would make a great Jade, Taylor even confirms it, but she's probably not as suitable as Chev, if only due to not having a decades-long career and the national respect that Chev commands and that her youth causes her to be overlooked by others. That said, her character is stellar, she's likely the most dedicated of the Wards to being a hero, and the most experienced. She hasn't gained the bleak fatalism she did in canon, likely due to her fellow Wards' continued survival and her relationship with Taylor, but we don't know how she's doing since her stint as Jack Slash's taxi. My biggest concern is that we don't want know whether she want to be Exalted. Aisha wants to, we know the Twins wanted it from the recent update, Accord demanded it, but it's never been stated outright that Vista is on board. Granted, she'd likely readily agree if Taylor asked, but I'd prefer an interlude to see where Missy's mind at, if only because there's a relative glut of Jade candidates available. Power-wise, Vista's is top-tier, but she's a squishy little girl, so Exaltation would greatly improve her survivability in the field, as opposed to Chev, whose power is also top-tier, but while he is also squishy, he's wrapped in super-dense fuck-off armor and would not benefit as greatly in terms of staying alive. That said, Vista's power is strong enough to continue to be an asset even without Exaltation, and Alchemicals do need relationships with mortals to help with Clarity issues, which little sister Missy is in a prime position to help out with. Her youth is another issue, but with Taylor's successes, backing and allies, not an insurmountable one. I personally don't have an issue with Missy being so young, Taylor's only two years older than her and had to make a much less informed choice in the matter.

Armsmaster could work, but we'd have to spend some time with Taylor, Dragon and Saki to smooth out his character issues; he has certainly not fallen like he did in canon, but neither has he been reforged into Defiant. He hasn't shown that he wants to be Exalted imo, given his scene with Prayer when she was at the Providence PRT office. Then again, he could have changed his mind, given his ineffectiveness against the S9, he may be open to Exaltation to maintain his relevance as a her. Not that that's a good reason to join the Assembly, terrible really, but even Marrow admitted her desire for Exaltation was not unselfish. Armsy is prideful and selfish, but those traits are so closely wrapped up with his desire and drive to be a hero that you can't really damn him for it. Power-wise, I'm not thrilled WoG stating that Exaltation would nerf his shard, but plenty of other Alchemical goodies should make up for it. As a Tinker, he could be redundant given Taylor's abilities, but he's also a fighter, like Marrow, and having more than one dedicated combatant doesn't sound too bad. He may also have issues with Clarity, given his personality and Dragon being his only person he's ever bonded with.

Miss Militia is another solid choice for Jade, but she's been out of the spotlight in-story for so long, she might be out of the running due to sheer lack of interest. Otherwise, she's a dedicated, popular, long-time Protectorate member with a spotless record, and compared to the other choices, she really doesn't have any responsibilities/issues that would impede her Exaltation. Like Chev, who's got anything bad to say about her? No one, that's who. Her power's strong, but her most potent weapons (tac nukes) are ineffective against Endbringers/Scion, so Exaltation may help push her into being competitive against the really big threats (no idea how Autobot's conversion of her shard would work out though). Taylor lost her intimacy with her, no sure if that's a huge deal mechanically speaking, but I don't see Taylor having a hard time convincing MM into accepting (but like Missy, we don't really know her opinion on whether she wants to be Exalted). Given her personality, MM should be able to deal with Clarity issues easiest of all candidates. Honestly, the more I think about it the more MM looks like a perfect Exaltation candidate. Really the only thing going against her is a lack of popularity/lack of appearance in the story since Behemoth. If she's not Exalted, she can still make for a good ally/emotional support for Taylor, but I can see her falling by the wayside as the story progresses.

Piggot may be an interesting choice for Jade as well. Despite her infirmity, she's still got the personality of a warrior, of someone that exemplifies the concepts of the Jade caste. She'd be a really hard sell though, if she views the Exalted through the same lens as she does parahumans, like she'd probably need to get stuck with Saki's POS to even consider it. No powers, but if the theory that converting shards is significantly eroding Autobot's health is correct, then that's a point in favor of Exalting her. She's been out of the Story for a while, but she's also at fairly loose ends as Deputy Director overseeing a refugee camp that ought to be nearly emptied out by now, so she should be available if she can be convinced. Talyor has proven she can work with her well though, and Piggy's given her some measure of respect, so it may be better to have Piggot as another ally we can work with in the future. We're supposed to hit time skips in the future, and Piggot may end up as a Director once more, possible overseeing our Assembly depending on how things shake out.


That said, if there was a vote for Jade caste tomorrow, I'd probably pick Vista, despite MM likely being the most zero negative consequence pick. I like Vista, I think she's a cool character with a cool power, and would like to see here continue to survive, which is more likely if she has a bullshit magical robot body. Though I think the other candidates currently being discussed are valid choices, so I wouldn't be too dissatisfied if Vista doesn't make the cut.
 
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Just finished reading through this quest, thank you for putting together such a great story!

@Gromweld
Small discrepancy, but back in 7.6 you write:



While in 9.3 you write:


As for the next member of the Assembly, I don't think there is a specific WoG on this, but will we get Sakura back at the end of another week, or is she stuck on Autochthonia for the foreseeable future? Though there's still ~3 months before Plot strikes, we should figure out how long the Cradle will be held up due to Sakura's situation.

I think the next slot that should be filled is the Jade caste, as there seem to be plenty of candidates immediately available. Chevalier, Vista, Armsmaster, Miss Militia, Piggot. While the vote was for:



back in 8.6, it doesn't seem appropriate to find the Assembly's "hero of the people" in Cauldron's list.

Chevalier probably fits the Jade caste the best out of any choice in terms of personality/character. He's the guy that everyone turned to when Legend was forced to retire in disgrace in canon; if Hero hadn't taken it first, Chev could have taken the name Hero no problem. No one has bad shit to say about this guy. It'd be a PR coup if he joined the Assembly, and as a side benefit it may result in Armsmaster taking command of the Philly Protectorate branch, which would score Taylor major points with Armsy. On the other hand, Chev may best help as an ally rather than as an Exalted. He's already Taylor's boss and he likes and supports her efforts (even if he's probably still grinding his teeth over the whole Bonesaw thing). He's also really powerful as is, what with being able to melee Endbringers. If Taylor gets her hands on any magical materials, Chev might be able to incorporate them into his gear and further up his powerlevels. Point is, Exalting anyone greatly empowers them; even a relatively weak individual is granted a huge boost. I'd argue that as Chevalier is already a very powerful character, we'd be better served Exalting someone weaker and keeping Chev as an ally, giving us a greater net gain in power for the coming battles. Another, lesser concern is how Iris was baffled by Chev's reality layering powers. Autocthon will likely find a way to convert Chev's shard into something equivalently useful, but it could be more of a side-grade, and the resulting power may not be as suitable for Chev's role as a front line fighter.

Vista would make a great Jade, Taylor even confirms it, but she's probably not as suitable as Chev, if only due to not having a decades-long career and the national respect that Chev commands and that her youth causes her to be overlooked by others. That said, her character is stellar, she's likely the most dedicated of the Wards to being a hero, and the most experienced. She hasn't gained the bleak fatalism she did in canon, likely due to her fellow Wards' continued survival and her relationship with Taylor, but we don't know how she's doing since her stint as Jack Slash's taxi. My biggest concern is that we don't want know whether she want to be Exalted. Aisha wants to, we know the Twins wanted it from the recent update, Accord demanded it, but it's never been stated outright that Vista is on board. Granted, she'd likely readily agree if Taylor asked, but I'd prefer an interlude to see where Missy's mind at, if only because there's a relative glut of Jade candidates available. Power-wise, Vista's is top-tier, but she's a squishy little girl, so Exaltation would greatly improve her survivability in the field, as opposed to Chev, whose power is also top-tier, but while he is also squishy, he's wrapped in super-dense fuck-off armor and would not benefit as greatly in terms of staying alive. That said, Vista's power is strong enough to continue to be an asset even without Exaltation, and Alchemicals do need relationships with mortals to help with Clarity issues, which little sister Missy is in a prime position to help out with. Her youth is another issue, but with Taylor's successes, backing and allies, not an insurmountable one. I personally don't have an issue with Missy being so young, Taylor's only two years older than her and had to make a much less informed choice in the matter.

Armsmaster could work, but we'd have to spend some time with Taylor, Dragon and Saki to smooth out his character issues; he has certainly not fallen like he did in canon, but neither has he been reforged into Defiant. He hasn't shown that he wants to be Exalted imo, given his scene with Prayer when she was at the Providence PRT office. Then again, he could have changed his mind, given his ineffectiveness against the S9, he may be open to Exaltation to maintain his relevance as a her. Not that that's a good reason to join the Assembly, terrible really, but even Marrow admitted her desire for Exaltation was not unselfish. Armsy is prideful and selfish, but those traits are so closely wrapped up with his desire and drive to be a hero that you can't really damn him for it. Power-wise, I'm not thrilled WoG stating that Exaltation would nerf his shard, but plenty of other Alchemical goodies should make up for it. As a Tinker, he could be redundant given Taylor's abilities, but he's also a fighter, like Marrow, and having more than one dedicated combatant doesn't sound too bad. He may also have issues with Clarity, given his personality and Dragon being his only person he's ever bonded with.

Miss Militia is another solid choice for Jade, but she's been out of the spotlight in-story for so long, she might be out of the running due to sheer lack of interest. Otherwise, she's a dedicated, popular, long-time Protectorate member with a spotless record, and compared to the other choices, she really doesn't have any responsibilities/issues that would impede her Exaltation. Like Chev, who's got anything bad to say about her? No one, that's who. Her power's strong, but her most potent weapons (tac nukes) are ineffective against Endbringers/Scion, so Exaltation may help push her into being competitive against the really big threats (no idea how Autobot's conversion of her shard would work out though). Taylor lost her intimacy with her, no sure if that's a huge deal mechanically speaking, but I don't see Taylor having a hard time convincing MM into accepting (but like Missy, we don't really know her opinion on whether she wants to be Exalted). Given her personality, MM should be able to deal with Clarity issues easiest of all candidates. Honestly, the more I think about it the more MM looks like a perfect Exaltation candidate. Really the only thing going against her is a lack of popularity/lack of appearance in the story since Behemoth. If she's not Exalted, she can still make for a good ally/emotional support for Taylor, but I can see her falling by the wayside as the story progresses.

Piggot may be an interesting choice for Jade as well. Despite her infirmity, she's still got the personality of a warrior, of someone that exemplifies the concepts of the Jade caste. She'd be a really hard sell though, if she views the Exalted through the same lens as she does parahumans, like she'd probably need to get stuck with Saki's POS to even consider it. No powers, but if the theory that converting shards is significantly eroding Autobot's health is correct, then that's a point in favor of Exalting her. She's been out of the Story for a while, but she's also at fairly loose ends as Deputy Director overseeing a refugee camp that ought to be nearly emptied out by now, so she should be available if she can be convinced. Talyor has proven she can work with her well though, and Piggy's given her some measure of respect, so it may be better to have Piggot as another ally we can work with in the future. We're supposed to hit time skips in the future, and Piggot may end up as a Director once more, possible overseeing our Assembly depending on how things shake out.


That said, if there was a vote for Jade caste tomorrow, I'd probably pick Vista, despite MM likely being the most zero negative consequence pick. I like Vista, I think she's a cool character with a cool power, and would like to see here continue to survive, which is more likely if she has a bullshit magical robot body. Though I think the other candidates currently being discussed are valid choices, so I wouldn't be too dissatisfied if Vista doesn't make the cut.
I just going to say that since we're entangled with Cauldron Vista is a better choice than Chevalier because of how things went down in canon. having someone we can trust at the head of the Protectorate in the off chance that things go bad is a good idea.
with human Chevalier you get no Pod people accusations, no Cauldron link, no "outside influences", should it become necessary to have someone we can trust in a greater position of power.
on Piggot I'd rather have her as an Orihalcum because she brings less to the Jade table than Vista, but has more flexibility in charm selection than a parahuman Exalt would, and there isn't any real consensus on our Orihalcum.
 
As for the next member of the Assembly, I don't think there is a specific WoG on this, but will we get Sakura back at the end of another week, or is she stuck on Autochthonia for the foreseeable future? Though there's still ~3 months before Plot strikes, we should figure out how long the Cradle will be held up due to Sakura's situation.
Forseeable future.
There will probably be something IC to make it clear that the Cradle is free.
My biggest concern is that we don't want know whether she want to be Exalted.
Thread 17, Dec 9 2014
NOTE: The lists below are just who would say 'yes', and do not take into account whom would actually Exalt at all, whom would be good choices for the Assembly, or the ramifications that might arise if they are chosen right now. They are also listed alphabetically, not by any other metric.

Here are the people Taylor is confident would immediately say 'yes' to Exaltation:
- Aisha Laborn/Who
- Chris Matthews/Kid Win
- Colin Wallis/Armsmaster
- Loom
- Missy Byron/Vista

Here are the people that Taylor suspects would be swayed right now to say 'yes' to Exaltation with a proper argument:
- Accord
- Kali Haryana/Bladedancer
- Sakura & Saki Kurosawa/Uzu & Tatsu
- Weld

Here are the people that Taylor suspects would be swayed say 'yes' to Exaltation should they be in critical/unrecoverable condition:
- Bobby Erwin/Transfusion
- Dean Stansfield/Gallant
- Dennis Lewis/Clockblocker
- Glenn Chambers
- Gloria Sato
- Hannah Smith/Miss Militia
- Kinzey Robinson/Geode
- Martin Uriel
- Myrddin
- Robert Hoover/Chevalier
Conditions may have changed OOC, but in-game it's been less than two weeks.

How durable is the Butcher? I recall at least one instance of Brute powers, but there's so many in there it's hard to keep track.
Enough.
List of known powers for Butcher 14.
  • The ability to cause excruciating pain at range and increased durability (I).
  • Superhuman strength (I, III, VI, IX, XI, XIII).
  • The ability to see hearts, veins and arteries even through walls (II).
  • Short-range danger sense against physical attacks (III).
  • The ability to cause festering wounds (IV).
  • Short-ranged explosive teleport (VI).
  • The ability to reshape unrefined matter into objects (VIII).
  • The ability to cause mindless rage at short range.
  • Immunity to pain (XII).
  • The ability to always hit with a ranged attack as long as the target is within range (XIV).
Citrine is Butcher XV.
Do note that several Butchers do not have their powers listed, so it could be worse than it at first seems.
 
1. We probably have enough political capital to get away with it if we have to. Given our powers and past history of heroism, PRT won't be branding us villains or anything for this one act, even if we do it completely rogue. So long as Vista wants it, we can also argue the benefits of it and how she would be safer and better able to deal with parahuman threats and so on.

So while it might indeed be somewhat "expensive" in favors and such, we are not talking massively disastrous costs here.


2. Frankly, I don't really see whats interesting in Piggot. No parahuman shard so no cool new shard-charm. Not particularly close to Taylor or anyone in the assembly. Not truly spectacular in any unique way.


3. Yeah, this seems a silly idea to be honest. Also I don't think we can really communicate with Auto like this (he is half-asleep). We also can't choose the power of the vial we get, and giving a non-converted shard to an alchemical would be problematic in multitude of ways. This is not a realistic option.

4. Don't confuse Worm universe with reality. The things you speak of don't apply the way you believe. Vista (and others of her age) as a ward regularly faced deadly threats, both in this quest and in canon. The changes you speak of have already happened atleast to some extent before the quest even started.

5. You're goddamn right there are! Best little sister or bust!

1. We have the political clout, but I think you'd be surprised at what it's going to take to get opinion to change. Honnestly, with a few exceptions, as pointed by this last election on both sides, Americans are really ... resistant to propaganda. And that's how most Alchemical social charms work. Political talk and advertising - like Apple's commercials - are the closest we get. Although shaming the PRT into changing stance because if bad PR is ironic. And it still dosen't avoid Mastering the polulace. (Because there are going to be antagonists who will argue that. Tagg, possibly Alexandria and Eidolon.)

2. Shard charms are not everything. Piggot is dependable, competent. Comming from a police/specal agent/paramilitary background she understands the chain of command and would understand that accepting means having Taylor be her commanding officer for Alchemical buisness.

3. We talk to Auto-kun by meditating, then putting the Cauldron vials into the portal. And no it's not silly. We have no good unanimous choices for Ori. It's to the point that I really do wonder if bringing an Ori from Autochitonia would be better.

* Accord: OCD problems. Solving world hunger may necessitate being a villian, but does not require being a superpowered mob boss. May like Clarity too much.

*Armsmaster: At the current point, may not be heroic enough. There is potential, but it's not quite there. May like Clarity too much.

* The Fairy Queen: How do we know that she will be loyal? Would she take orders?

* Alexandria: How do we know she will be loyal? Would she take orders?

I'm sure there's more candidates we are not considering but I don't know who they'd be? Weld, as the face of the Case-53's? Mantelluim, the same? Lung, waging a war against stupid differances like race and language? (I'd rather Lung over Accord in anycase.) Piggot, with a dream of sane capes and baseline humans living peacfully under the rule of law? (if she's not jade or soulsteel instead.)

4. With the connservation of information, I essentially need to assume that any fictional world that presents itself as modern (e.g not historical or far future sci-fi) works like ours. Otherwise I wouldn't have the context to make any deduction or inference.

5. I like the idea of Missy as our Jade - she's perfect for it. If we want to go that route, I honestly expect it's easier to ask forgiveness than to ask permission. Missy is a spacebender, she can get to the Cradle all by herself if she wanted to. And any punishment the PRT can issue is minor compaired to loosing her friends and family to the Brockton Bay volcano or what the S9 did to her.
 
I've updated Chapter 9.3 and the Story Index/Character Sheets. Observe at your leisure.

Other stuff:
- When I say that Armsmaster's shard would be trimmed, I mean in the same way that Taylor, Prayer, and the Twins had their own shards trimmed. None of the shard-charms have the capability of becoming anything other than what they are now. If Armsmaster died right now and his shard hooked up to a new person, they could trigger as a Blaster or Shaker or whatever... while in the case of a Tinker getting exalted, their shard charm would be a Tinker-specific shard-charm and nothing else forever more.
@Gromweld
For your files: Canon!Imp is a Stranger 5, Canary is a Master 8
Noted. Thank you.
How durable is the Butcher? I recall at least one instance of Brute powers, but there's so many in there it's hard to keep track.
She's got multiple Brute powers at this point, but the biggest problem is that the shard urges her to be actively suicidal against stronger opponents.
We could ask/require/cash in a Cauldron favor to get Alexandria to wear the soulgem. Legend was good for the LGBT community, having another member of the Triumverate support a social cause shouldn't hurt.
Alexandria's mask covers everything above her mouth. Since, you know, she has to hide the fact that she's Rebecca Costa-Brown. Kinda hard to show off the soulgem like that.
Cons: Not sure how effective it would be under Nowhere-verse converts, cult size does not grow very fast at all, distressing shortage of step pyramids.
This made me laugh out loud.

teleportation never

latino

latino
Whoops! I'm pretty sure I wrote 'latino', so I blame google docs for auto-correcting that.
Just finished reading through this quest, thank you for putting together such a great story!
Thank you! Glad you've enjoyed it thus far!
Small discrepancy, but back in 7.6 you write:

While in 9.3 you write:
Ah! Thank you! When I was writing that in 9.3 I had a foggy feeling that I was forgetting something...
 
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As for the next member of the Assembly, I don't think there is a specific WoG on this, but will we get Sakura back at the end of another week, or is she stuck on Autochthonia for the foreseeable future? Though there's still ~3 months before Plot strikes, we should figure out how long the Cradle will be held up due to Sakura's situation.


Ah, point of order. You can make use of the Cradle right now, actually, with no worries. In fact, Autochthon is quite put out that you aren't, seeing as his message to Saki is 'go faster'.
 
ok, I say we plug Aisha in to the Cradle with the intent of her coming out of it as a Moonsilver Covert-Ops specialist, and during the Week it takes to catalyze the Exaltation work on out Orihalcum with the intent to shove them into the cradle as soon as Aisha comes out of the Cradle.
now if the Orihalcum isn't ready at that point we put Vista in while we continue to work on our Ori.
 
Ah, point of order. You can make use of the Cradle right now, actually, with no worries. In fact, Autochthon is quite put out that you aren't, seeing as his message to Saki is 'go faster'.
IC, Taylor is under the belief that Sakura is still in the Cradle, since it takes a week to Exalt. Need the rest of the meditation or for Saki to realize something else happened.
 
Re: Butcher

Accord was fighting the Butcher for a long time, and a man like that likes to know what he's fighting. He'll have information on the Butcher (and his wayward assistant) even the PRT might not have, and he certainly has contengency plans for how to handle them (even if he can't act on them currently because of his fall from grace)
Ideas to subdue Butcher XV so far include gas attacks, sneak attacks on a sleeping Butcher, hit-and-run willpower-draining attacks, ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL, a helpless puppy under a cardboard box propped up by a stick clearly labeled 'not a trap', surprise Adamant bruiser from Nowhere, teleporting tranq arrow attack (step one; marker, non-damaging so shouldn't trigger precog. Step two; teleport night-night stick to Butcher, precog does nothing), Optical Shroud + Personality Override Spike/chloroform soaked rag grappling option, asking nicely pretty please.

This made me laugh out loud.

I mean, there's some and I considered using the ones around the Yucatan peninsula, but I figured the Mexican government would only agree if it was to be used to reenact historical rituals and it seems a little inconsiderate to coopt cultural icons like that just to appropriate them for a completely different religion not even a little related. That gave me the options to try and create some sort of joint ritual (not sure if it'd be possible, would likely be kitbashing even if it was, and I'm fairly sure that's superceding a Champion's traditional authority so we'd probably need prior approval from the Theomachracy to try something like that), build our own step pyramid (time-intensive, cost-intensive, and would take up a fair bit of time and attention for whomever was in charge of building it, but possible and if we had Enduring Order Administrator pick up Craft [Earth] she'd be my recommendation for the job as her Lore and Occult dots and specialties make her the best suited for the design work. In the end, she's busy enough with other projects I considered also helpful that taking a job that could be delegated and be 'adequate' if not 'sufficient' to be worth it) or work without a step pyramid (I hope I don't need to explain why this one was considered and rejected).
 
Ah, point of order. You can make use of the Cradle right now, actually, with no worries. In fact, Autochthon is quite put out that you aren't, seeing as his message to Saki is 'go faster'.


Okay. So we need to pick up Aisha or Missy and get them to the Cradle ASAP.


I'm sure no one will mind. :p
 
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Missy is great for Exaltation... But is going to be expensive. Either we are going to have to fight the PRT and the YG in a court case (with appeals), we go on a POS adjustment campaign...which will be noticed eventually unless we are very good about it, or we openly defy the PRT and be branded "rouge/out of control assets" or villains outright.
Note that this is kind of why we've been working so heavily on:
-Bureaucracy skills to deal with legal difficulties
-Moebot Prime to deal with public perceptions
-Playing nice with PRT policy in general to build institutional credit
-Purchasing Backing(PRT) 5
-Building public credit with deeds of great heroism and public good.
-Building connections and banked favors with Cauldron

We're building up credit for difficult things like picking controversial Exaltation candidates.
As had already been said IC, people already start to expect Vista/Missy to be exalted at some point. It's not going to be some huge surprise, and the primary barriers are bureaucratic.

This is not canon, and alchemicals are not human. Besides, in canon GU did ally with humans in the end. Besides, if GU is so twisted that its impossible to make her friendly to humans, then she sure as heck neither deserves nor qualifies for alchemical exaltation.
I want to clarify that GU went with humanity in the end for two main reasons:
1) Her reason for siding with Scion to begin with was human social isolation. Nobody actually speaks with her without fear, if they do it at all. So at a young age, she had nothing to bond with aside from what her power shows. When the Birdcage opened up and the crisis started, people actually talked to her at all.

2) Scion was engaged in a pointless, selfdestructive rampage. There is no glorious cycle and ascension. Nothing but a hail mary of Scion going into hibernation until another Entity arrives by chance before he runs out of power entirely. His rampage is the end of her dreams.
It's worth noting that parahuman shard's typically aren't 'Tinker shards' or 'Blaster shards' or whatnot, except in some rare cases. Instead, the shard manifests its abilities in a specific way depending on the person, so where Armsmaster got a Tinker power from his shard someone else could have gotten a Shaker power or another got a Changer power.

Choosing a Tinker to exalt isn't "giving Autochthon a Tinker database" because ALL shards are basically Tinker databases in a way. Instead, choosing a Tinker to exalt means we're telling Autobot that we want this shard to be turned into a Tinker-esque charm - this actually diminishes the shard's capabilities in many ways, because Autobot trims out all the extraneous stuff, but that's how he's able to focus them to be better at what that 'power' did.
I think this had been brought up before, though a Tinker shard's bud or second host would probably have major Tinker elements. Like Miss Militia's shard being normally Tinker-spec, but reconfigured to suit her circumstances better.
Grayboy doesn't make bubbles, he just locks a specific person/thing in a time-loop that his shard secretly maintains (even after he's dead). ISF wouldn't help with that, but Optical Shroud's Hidden Assembly Conclave might... but the shard might instead just restart the loop when the victim comes out of stealth. Something to find out in-story!
Uh, wasn't Grey Boy Loops space based? He makes a zone of looped time, and for instance, that's how Jack Slash met his end in canon, when he was caught in the looped space. It's how Flechette/Foil tricked him, by pretending to be looped(which would be impossible if it was single target)
THIS IS THE ONLY WAY IRIS KNOWS HOW TO PUT SOULS IN MEAT-ROBOTS WITHOUT THEM TURNING INTO HUNGRY-GHOST ZOMBIE-PEOPLE. Riley's help allows it to be more meat-bot friendly than Iris would normally consider, as well as including the excising of the memory from the recipient's brain so only the Soul has a partial memory of the event.

If we don't choose this option now we can potentially develop other ways to modify the procedure later, but ultimately the 'Gem With Half-Soul Goes In Forehead, Other Half Of Soul Formed Through Specialized Essence-Discharge Charm, Lots Of Pain For Recipient' is ALWAYS going to be a component.
Yeah, ultimately I think the main issue with this is selling the idea successfully without reinforcing Pod People.

That's the biggest boon for the medical nanites, since they are an easy to sell public good to build more credit for the Assembly.
@which character to exalt discussion:

Okay, correct me if I'm wrong but I recall reading somewhere in the past threads, that converting capes to alchemicals to takes a lot more out of Autochthon than most exaltations, taking something on the order of months off his life expectancy. Was that addressed somewhere later where I didn't see it?

Because if not, I'd really want to look into a way to counteract or compensate for that damage before exalting more capes.
Already addressed, but exaltation isn't going to kill Autochton notably faster on a scale relevant to the quest. The Cradle will stay open for three months(well, two and a half by now?), and then it will stop accepting candidates.

As Gromweld had said many times exalt based on who you want to see more. That's the biggest, most important reason. Do not exalt someone you don't particularly like who has a cool power. Do exalt people with shitty/no powers that you like. Any exalted candidate will take center stage in screentime.

Assuming they fit the slots of course.
...and now I'm considering Citrine as a candidate for Orichalum.
Naw, doesn't work. Orichalcum wants self motivated, driven characters. Citrine's base personality is pretty subservient.
-Above monastery plan. Pros: fulfills unrelated objectives, builds goodwill, gradual increase in cult numbers. Cons: Slow to take effect, inefficient, high degree of Alchemical involvement in most steps of the program
Other cons would be Pod People Intensifies.
I mean, we have moebot for that, but Saki can't be everywhere at once.
-Raider-cult style semi-regular human sacrifice. Demons in creation benefit from worship just like any other spirit, but they have to play fast and loose with how their cults are managed. Human sacrifice is common because every human life counts as a Resource 5 sacrifice and frees up a lot of motes that go to the patron. (The section that talks about this says something to the effect of how laying flowers at a shrine every day for a season doesn't generate as big a cult as a human sacrifice on the new moon) Pros: lot of bang for your buck, easy to do with limited resources, proven efficacy under motonic physics. Cons: Not sure how effective it would be under Nowhere-verse converts, cult size does not grow very fast at all, distressing shortage of step pyramids.
We already know this doesn't work. Viator tried it. You need a soul for the sacrifice to have value. And if the person has a soul, then it's a horrible waste, they make far more power over a lifetime than in one burst.
1. We have the political clout, but I think you'd be surprised at what it's going to take to get opinion to change. Honnestly, with a few exceptions, as pointed by this last election on both sides, Americans are really ... resistant to propaganda. And that's how most Alchemical social charms work. Political talk and advertising - like Apple's commercials - are the closest we get. Although shaming the PRT into changing stance because if bad PR is ironic. And it still dosen't avoid Mastering the polulace. (Because there are going to be antagonists who will argue that. Tagg, possibly Alexandria and Eidolon.)
Mortal propaganda =/= society rewriting charms. Like, the whole problem with mortal propaganda is that the public reacts unpredictably. Not a problem with the charms.

AND,if you are referencing the election then you'd have to acknowledge that propaganda warfare was conducted effectively by both sides. Opposed rolls so as to speak.
IC, Taylor is under the belief that Sakura is still in the Cradle, since it takes a week to Exalt. Need the rest of the meditation or for Saki to realize something else happened.
We actually got the bit we need last scene. Saki saw Sakura falling towards Autochtonia. She even KNEW something was wrong, instinctively, with Taylor's theory about taking an extra week.

She just let herself be deluded because it was less painful that way.
 
We already know this doesn't work. Viator tried it. You need a soul for the sacrifice to have value. And if the person has a soul, then it's a horrible waste, they make far more power over a lifetime than in one burst.

Two points; firstly, if the point is to milk the prayer-cattle for every drop they're worth, you would be entirely correct. However, if you're trying to get as much bang for your buck as you can in as short a period of time as you can (such as when the Great Maker is so close to dying) 'damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead' makes a degree of sense. Secondly, we can (probably) reuse soulgems after they've been harvested, so there's an element of waste reduction there.

I mean, this method was included for the sake of completeness, not a recommendation to attempt it. Not enough step pyramids, first of all.

Saki can't be everywhere at once.

*looks at Taylor-bot project*
Hmmm....
 
3. We talk to Auto-kun by meditating, then putting the Cauldron vials into the portal. And no it's not silly. We have no good unanimous choices for Ori. It's to the point that I really do wonder if bringing an Ori from Autochitonia would be better.
Already addressed, but exaltation isn't going to kill Autochton notably faster on a scale relevant to the quest. The Cradle will stay open for three months(well, two and a half by now?), and then it will stop accepting candidates.

As Gromweld had said many times exalt based on who you want to see more. That's the biggest, most important reason. Do not exalt someone you don't particularly like who has a cool power. Do exalt people with shitty/no powers that you like. Any exalted candidate will take center stage in screentime.

Assuming they fit the slots of course.
Ah, that makes sense. Noted and filed.

And speaking of who I'd want to see more...
3. We talk to Auto-kun by meditating, then putting the Cauldron vials into the portal. And no it's not silly. We have no good unanimous choices for Ori. It's to the point that I really do wonder if bringing an Ori from Autochitonia would be better.
You know, this honestly sounds interesting. I don't know whether or not it's a good idea, but having a native Autochthonian's perspective sounds intriguing.
 
Ah, no. It's still one at a time, it's just currently free for use. OOCly, we know this, and ICly, Taylor can extrapolate from the limited data Saki gives her in regards to her (Saki's) vision.

I meant get one of them to the Cradle now, which is why I edited it.

I had meant to have the other one read to put right after the other came out.

And I was referring to any problems caused by trying to exalt Aisha or Missy, who are minors. But it should be fine. Yep.
 
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I meant get one of them to the Cradle now, which is why I edited it.

I had meant to have the other one read to put right after the other came out.

Ah, so you did. I hadn't noticed, and still thought it was an 'and' there when I commented. Anyway, yes. With this revised statement, this is indeed not a bad idea. Having them lined up and ready to go is a good plan, yes.
 
With respect to Orichalcum: at this point, I think, most opinions won't change as things are going. Could we do some sort of preliminary approval poll about the candidates1​ to at least cut the discussion down to a manageable number2​? That'd create a basis for discussion, at least.

1​ As best I can tell right now, these are, in alphabetical order: Accord, Alexandria, Armsmaster, Glaistig Uaine, Lustrum (for some incomprehensible reason), Piggot, Weld, Wyld. I'm not sure how many of those would actually fit Ori, mind you. If the goal is "larger-than-life goals without restraint", I'd say that eliminates Piggot, Weld, and possibly Wyld, though I am willing to be convinced otherwise b/c I really want a maximum number of candidates other than Alexandria/GU. I also want to emphasize that in addition to all the IC reasons why Exalting Lustrum is an entirely terrible idea, I don't want this Quest to devolve into real-world politics. There's some things I want to see more of in this Quest, and some I want to see less of, but one thing I absolutely don't want to see is murderfeminism, b/c I think it would lead the discussion towards a very ugly place.

2​ That manageable number being 2-3, each with their own bases of support - something like selecting the candidate approved by the largest proportion, throwing out that candidate's supporters for the next round, and repeating.
 
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